PRTB, is it needed?

Jessica86

Hi I am a tenant on a property in Leixlip.
I am having a lot of issues with my landlady... I can try and write most of it down so you get a general idea..

We moved in August 2011, the dryer was not working at that time, and she said it would be fixed. She agreed us having a dog, which we already had for years.
We called her, mailed her texted her, she once sent out a guy who did some stuff to that machine, but it never got working. When it turns on all fuses blow...

The shower is leaking, the actual wall thing that is supposed to hold the water from getting through... We put towels etc there because we know now... But before we knew we had water dripping in our living room! Quite a lot of it too, so now the roof is damaged.
She put in a real cheap ass couch, like fake leather stuff, and an old broken TV table. It was our mistake we did not make any pics of that!

As mentioned earlier we have a dog, she breaks stuff, we know that. We are happy to fix it up etc. This covers chewing wood damage, that cheap ass couch, and the table. The is also a piece of carpet upstairs that's ripped.

We are willing to get it all sorted with her, after all, she has 1k euro in deposit from us.

We want to move out end of the month, she came by today to check up etc.
She said she was very disappointed etc, I can understand, BUT overdramatizing it all!

Like we did not text her enough that we have been without a drying facility for 1.5 years.
We did not pay attention enough to the leak
She wants us to replace all the wood, the couch and she wants back this exact table, the replacement we bought which is heavier wood, brand new larger she doesn't want.

We ended the lease prematurely because we found a house with a garden ( which we need for the dog)

I rang citizens information, and they directed me to check if she was register with the PRTB, turns out she is not.
So I can't do any dispute against her.
She does not want to use the deposit for the damage, she wants us to pay this directly. She wants 2 months extra rent as our lease would end on January.

Is this right? Do we have to pay this?
We are not bad people. We don;t want to end a conflict like this... But she immediately begins threatening we will have to pay this and that...

So any advice??

djimi

Firstly, you as a tenant can raise a claim with the PRTB regardless of whether or not the landlord is registered.

However...

If you are breaking a lease early and have not approached the landlord about assigning the remainder of the lease to a third party then you can take it that your deposit is gone. The landlord is fully entitled to persue you for the full amount owed for the duration of the fixed term lease, and while most wont bother persuing it too far as its not worth the effort/expense they will keep your deposit to cover what has been lost.

The landlord is also entitled to have any damage put right. Seeing as how you no longer have a deposit to cover the damage done by your dog, the landlord is well within their rights to expect you to have it repaired out of your own pocket.

Im not sure what the story with the table is; unless you have bought one that is completely out of place in the room (ie too big or whatever) then the landlord should not be in a position to complain.

With regards the dryer and shower leak; if you wish to persue this matter further then you need to be able to show that you have notified the landlord of these complaints properly, in writing, and that no satisfactory attempt has been made to have them repaired.

Jessica86

Thanks djimi

We did notify her before sighning the extra 6 months that we probably wont make it until January, as we were already actively looking for something else.
She said was no problem at that time. Now however, it is a problem.
I know my own fault since its not written on the lease etc, and we are more then wiling to fix stuff. She is just being very threatening over it. I dont like that. So I was just wondering what OUR rights as tendants are... since I assume we do have some..

We have plenty of letters texts emails etc.. once she just vanashed for 8 months...

( Just to be clean on my spell errors... I am not from Ireland. I just live here for 2 years now)

ameee

Why does she not want to use deposit to fix the damage?that's exactly what the deposit is for it sounds like she won't return your deposit either way. If you new she was coming to check the place you should have sorted Any problems your dog caused or fixed them as they happened. The leak is not your problem as long as you told her about it, its not your job to keep reminding her. To be honest if it were me i would fix any damage caused and keep the last months rent as deposit as it sounds like she Will use any reason to keep it. As long as the table you replaced was of the same quality,price and look as the old one there shouldn't be a problem furniture doesn't last forever

Procrastastudy

Write letters - its like texting just with more letters and bigger 'paper'. Life is so much better when people write letters rather than texting, facebooking etc.

Sounds very much like six of one and half a dozen of the other to me.

Jessica86

I dont have her address, so I cant actually write letters.. Emails she never responds too.. The occasional response I ever got was by text...

I did break the lease as I am not staying untill my term is over. I been here 1 year 4 months. I had 2 more months to go. Perople standing in line for this houses so dont think she will have much problems finding a new person to live here.

I also thought that the deposit was to be used for damage etc... I am willing to fix it all up, like get new blinds etc.. but not when is being like that!

odds_on

ameee wrote: »

Why does she not want to use deposit to fix the damage?that's exactly what the deposit is for it sounds like she won't return your deposit either way. If you new she was coming to check the place you should have sorted Any problems your dog caused or fixed them as they happened. The leak is not your problem as long as you told her about it, its not your job to keep reminding her. To be honest if it were me i would fix any damage caused and keep the last months rent as deposit as it sounds like she Will use any reason to keep it. As long as the table you replaced was of the same quality,price and look as the old one there shouldn't be a problem furniture doesn't last forever

I would think that the deposit will be used in full because the tenant is breaking a fix term lease. Therefore, the damages will require to be paid for - or repaired replaced by the tenant.

To the OP (Jessica86). When you have a problem with anything in a rented property which is the responsibility of the landlord - you should always give a deadline by when it should be remedied. Usually 14 days is a reasonable time. Note in any letter that the problem must be fixed "within 14 days of this letter" or before (for example), "11th December 2012". Unless there is a problem in obtaining parts which is out of the control of the landlord, the landlord may be in breach of his/her obligations.

Procrastastudy

Jessica86 wrote: »

I dont have her address, so I cant actually write letters.. Emails she never responds too.. The occasional response I ever got was by text...

I did break the lease as I am not staying untill my term is over. I been here 1 year 4 months. I had 2 more months to go. Perople standing in line for this houses so dont think she will have much problems finding a new person to live here.

I also thought that the deposit was to be used for damage etc... I am willing to fix it all up, like get new blinds etc.. but not when is being like that!

How did you not have the LL's address when moving in?

Rasmus

Did you have a fixed term 18 month lease? (If you have two months left, and you have been living there 16 months) ?
Or did you have a one year lease, then agree verbally to stay on?

djimi

Jessica86 wrote: »

I also thought that the deposit was to be used for damage etc... I am willing to fix it all up, like get new blinds etc.. but not when is being like that!

The deposit can be used to repair any damage, cover any shortfall in rent and cover the landlord for any bills etc that have been left outstanding by the tenant.

To be honest if it were to go to a PRTB hearing then I have no idea how it would end up. You are both in breach of your obligations; you are breaking the lease, plus you have caused excessive damage to the property which you now no longer have a deposit to cover, and the landlord failed in the upkeep of the property, plus they are legally obliged to give you their current contact details which they did not do.

Your best bet might be to contact Threshold and see what they advise. My first instinct is that you need to accept that you have lost your deposit if you move out early, come to an agreement regarding the cost of repairs and consider it a lesson learned, but that is in no way legal advice and Threshold will be able to give you a better indication as to what you should do and what you can expect in terms of an outcome.

djimi

ameee wrote: »

Why does she not want to use deposit to fix the damage?that's exactly what the deposit is for it sounds like she won't return your deposit either way...To be honest if it were me i would fix any damage caused and keep the last months rent as deposit as it sounds like she Will use any reason to keep it.

The OP has given the landlord several legal reasons to keep the entire deposit and then some in fairness.

Also advising someone to withhold rent is a bad idea. While you may feel that it is the best course of action in the "real world", on an advice forum it is not acceptable to advise someone to do something that puts them in a weaker position legally, and if it were to go to a PRTB hearing the fact that the tenant has witheld rent is considered to be a big mark against them.

Rasmus

Sometimes you just know when the LL is going to retain a deposit. The best thing for you is to go through the normal channels though, and do everything right if you want the best outcome. If you give enough notice (less than two years is 42 days) you can submit a claim to PRTB in earnest.

Look for your records of everything you asked to be repaired. Emails, take photos of text messages etc. Bear in mind that the LL does not have to provide a dryer, only a drying facility if you don't have a garden.
Try and fix what you can in the house now - this would be a polite move at the very least. Minimize the evidence of any claims that will be taken against you, and photograph them.

If you stick it out until your notice period is up, then you can go to PRTB if she keeps your deposit. Send her an official request for its return, and ask for evidence why it is being with-held.

Depending how much it is, she may not be able to show that damages caused by you cost her the entirety of the sum. This way, you could walk away with a few hundred, rather than you paying out anything.

As others have said, if you leave without notice she can keep your entire deposit, then some for damages.

Castlehaven

Rasmus wrote: »

Sometimes you just know when the LL is going to retain a deposit. The best thing for you is to go through the normal channels though, and do everything right if you want the best outcome. If you give enough notice (less than two years is 42 days) you can submit a claim to PRTB in earnest.

Look for your records of everything you asked to be repaired. Emails, take photos of text messages etc. Bear in mind that the LL does not have to provide a dryer, only a drying facility if you don't have a garden.
Try and fix what you can in the house now - this would be a polite move at the very least. Minimize the evidence of any claims that will be taken against you, and photograph them.

If you stick it out until your notice period is up, then you can go to PRTB if she keeps your deposit. Send her an official request for its return, and ask for evidence why it is being with-held.

Depending how much it is, she may not be able to show that damages caused by you cost her the entirety of the sum. This way, you could walk away with a few hundred, rather than you paying out anything.

As others have said, if you leave without notice she can keep your entire deposit, then some for damages.

Just to clarify that yes depending on what sort of property it is a landlord may not have to provide a drier but in this case the drier was supplied with the property so normal repairing liabilities apply - landlord has to repair or replace

Rasmus

Really? If a landlord provides an appliance (not requested by regulation) it has to be working? Do you have a link to that information?

Procrastastudy

Rasmus wrote: »

Really? If a landlord provides an appliance (not requested by regulation) it has to be working? Do you have a link to that information?

Basic rules of Contract - which leases (sort of) are. How would it be fair that I look at 5 houses - go with the best equipped - only to find the equipment is all cardboard cut outs?

If it's there it has to work. If its no there and not required then that grand.

Rasmus

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Basic rules of Contract - which leases (sort of) are. How would it be fair that I look at 5 houses - go with the best equipped - only to find the equipment is all cardboard cut outs?

If it's there it has to work. If its no there and not required then that grand.

It makes sense that it should work like that. However, I am wondering if legally the LL has to ensure an appliance that is not required by law for the tenant to have, to be in working order. I don't think there is any such regulation. It may be argued in a PRTB hearing, but I don't think it is against the charter.

Procrastastudy

Rasmus wrote: »

It makes sense that it should work like that. However, I am wondering if legally the LL has to ensure an appliance that is not required by law for the tenant to have, to be in working order. I don't think there is any such regulation. It may be argued in a PRTB hearing, but I don't think it is against the charter.

There isn't ever only one law that applies. You have to look at all the laws that might apply including the common law. You have to bear in mind, as Ireland is not a civil law country like France or Germany, not all laws are codified in statutes.

Rasmus

Procrastastudy wrote: »

There isn't ever only one law that applies. You have to look at all the laws that might apply including the common law. You have to bear in mind, as Ireland is not a civil law country like France or Germany, not all laws are codified in statutes.

True, in the court of law - but only the claim the PRTB would entertain is one that has to do with landlord obligations in relation to the tenancy act.
However, this line from citizen info might show that LL has to fix the dryer:

Repair and maintain the interior of the property to the standard it was in at the start of the tenancy
(Listed under LL obligations)
I think this would be stretch though - the tenant has better argument to prove she was never able to get in touch with the LL as she didn't provide a contact address, which LL HAS to do.

Procrastastudy

Rasmus wrote: »

True, in the court of law - but only the claim the PRTB would entertain is one that has to do with landlord obligations in relation to the tenancy act.
However, this line from citizen info might show that LL has to fix the dryer:

Repair and maintain the interior of the property to the standard it was in at the start of the tenancy
(Listed under LL obligations)
I think this would be stretch though - the tenant has better argument to prove she was never able to get in touch with the LL as she didn't provide a contact address, which LL HAS to do.

That's not a stretch it's patently obvious IMO. Not that I've read the Act to be fair.

Rasmus

Procrastastudy wrote: »

That's not a stretch it's patently obvious IMO. Not that I've read the Act to be fair.

A stretch is just my opinion too. I've been through a PRTB hearing and they follow the rules of appliance regulation very carefully - I can't say for certain that this example we're talking about is or isn't against this clause as a dryer is not an essential requirement. If this would be considered a breach, then I am SOL because there was tons of stuff (that LL is not legally entitled to provide) that didn't work in my old house but I didn't file it as a complaint!

Castlehaven

Rasmus wrote: »

Really? If a landlord provides an appliance (not requested by regulation) it has to be working? Do you have a link to that information?

2004 Residential Tenancies Act Pt 2 (tenancy obligations of landlords and tenants) 12 (1) (b) (i) + (ii).

Section (i) refers broadly to structural repairing liabilities of a landlord but the more pertinent section is (ii) that covers a landlords obligation to repair and replace fittings internally - domestic appliances are considered fittings under the act.

This is one of the most basic obligations a landlord has and is always covered under landlords covenants in a lease. In the absence of a written lease the legislation noted above provides statutory protection.

The repairing liability extends to all fixtures and fittings forming the rental.

Rasmus

Castlehaven wrote: »

2004 Residential Tenancies Act Pt 2 (tenancy obligations of landlords and tenants) 12 (1) (b) (i) + (ii).

Section (i) refers broadly to structural repairing liabilities of a landlord but the more pertinent section is (ii) that covers a landlords obligation to repair and replace fittings internally - domestic appliances are considered fittings under the act.

This is one of the most basic obligations a landlord has and is always covered under landlords covenants in a lease. In the absence of a written lease the legislation noted above provides statutory protection.

The repairing liability extends to all fixtures and fittings forming the rental.

Wow. Thanks for this.

djimi

Essential appliances are considered fittings but Im not sure about non-essential appliances. So while a washer would need to be replaced, Im not sure that the same could be said of a toaster or a juice maker.

Also if the appliances are not listed on the lease then I dont imagine the landlord has any obligation towards them (likewise they have no comeback if they get damaged).

Castlehaven

djimi wrote: »

Essential appliances are considered fittings but Im not sure about non-essential appliances. So while a washer would need to be replaced, Im not sure that the same could be said of a toaster or a juice maker.

Also if the appliances are not listed on the lease then I dont imagine the landlord has any obligation towards them (likewise they have no comeback if they get damaged).

Agreed there is probably a practical point where a tenant would purchase a replacement themselves. Typically tenants would rightly expect white goods, vacuums, microwaves etc to be repaired / replaced but often if something like a toaster goes they may replace at their own cost (they will get something better than most landlords would provide) and take it with them when they vacate.

However I think in terms of the law if a tenant insisted on a landlord replacing any item, even a toaster for example, then the landlord is obliged to do so.

I think ultimately though you have the legislation and then you have common sense and you have to hope common sense prevails in some situations. It can be a bit lacking in the rental business sometimes though

As regards items not on an inventory the legislation is clear that a landlord must repair or replace fittings and this liability would override an omission of fittings on an inventory.

Playing devil’s advocate you could argue that the inventory forms part of the contract (lease) so any omission on the inventory is an omission on the contract. However statute will override contract so the statutory repairing liabilities will still negate any contractual omission.

Remember as well that there are plenty of rented properties without any inventory but the landlord is not released from his repairing liability due to the lack of an inventory. I do agree though that the lack of an inventory (assuming it is agreed with tenant and that it records condition) works against a landlord if he wants to claim costs against a tenant for damage / loss.

Just my opinion.....I am open to correction

Luca Brasi

Jessica86 wrote: »

I dont have her address, so I cant actually write letters.. Emails she never responds too.. The occasional response I ever got was by text...

I did break the lease as I am not staying untill my term is over. I been here 1 year 4 months. I had 2 more months to go. Perople standing in line for this houses so dont think she will have much problems finding a new person to live here.

I also thought that the deposit was to be used for damage etc... I am willing to fix it all up, like get new blinds etc.. but not when is being like that!

I have to say that when you were prepared to accept such lacksaidaisical methods of correspondence you deserve the treatment you get. Our so called highly educated people are pathetic when dealing with the important issues of living such as accommodation rights, claiming entitlement etc

Jessica86

Luca Brasi wrote: »

I have to say that when you were prepared to accept such lacksaidaisical methods of correspondence you deserve the treatment you get. Our so called highly educated people are pathetic when dealing with the important issues of living such as accommodation rights, claiming entitlement etc

I never actually claimed I was high educated or whatever... And I don;t think I deserve this kind of treatment. We have always been fair to her, We send communications over email and SMS ( we did not hee current address) because of the dryer and leaking bathroom thing.

Are we obliged to report her due to the fact she has not registered us at the PRTB? I was talking about it at work today, and everyone has a different opinion. But what is the law...

I don't mind fixing up wood damage, in fact I have already started repairing..

But for instance the bed, there is a small chew mark. It's not even that bad.... But she wants us to buy her a completely new bed of 800 euro. And I dont know if she can just do that.

I already know the deposit is gone, but as far as I know ( or knew) The deposit is used for damage, that means damage to the property and damage of re advertising. I can;t find anywhere Damage for 2 month leaving early...

To be clear, I started 18 July 2011. In July 2012 I sighed for 6 more months because I could not find a property. I should have put in the lease it Might be earlier, she verbally agreed to that. But I can't prove that. I know that's bad from my side....

Thanks for all the help so far!

Rasmus

Luca Brasi wrote: »

I have to say that when you were prepared to accept such lacksaidaisical methods of correspondence you deserve the treatment you get. Our so called highly educated people are pathetic when dealing with the important issues of living such as accommodation rights, claiming entitlement etc

Totally useless and uncalled for comment.

djimi

Jessica86 wrote: »

I don't mind fixing up wood damage, in fact I have already started repairing..

But for instance the bed, there is a small chew mark. It's not even that bad.... But she wants us to buy her a completely new bed of 800 euro. And I dont know if she can just do that.

The landlord is entitled to have all damage repaired to the state that it was in prior to you moving in (less normal wear and tear). This means that unless you can repair the damage to the bed to a satisfactory level (ie so that it doesnt look like it was damaged and repaired) then they are entitled to look for a replacement.

They are however only entitled to a replacement to the level that it was when you moved in. I dont think I have ever seen a rented accomodation come with an €800 bed or anything even close to that value, and assuming it wasnt brand new when you moved in it shouldnt take anything even remotely close to that to replace like with like, if indeed that is what is required.

Jessica86 wrote: »

I already know the deposit is gone, but as far as I know ( or knew) The deposit is used for damage, that means damage to the property and damage of re advertising. I can;t find anywhere Damage for 2 month leaving early...

When you sign a fixed term lease you are signing that agree to pay the full value of the lease, spread over the term of the lease. So if you sign for 1 year at €1000 a month then you are agreeing to pay the total sum of €12000 over the course of the year. If you decide to break the lease early, the landlord is still entitled to persue for whatever remains of the unpaid rent for the duration of the lease. They are entitled to keep whatever deposit that you have given them to put towards this, and then persue you for the remainder if they so choose (most wont bother persuing for the remainder).

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

When you sign a fixed term lease you are signing that agree to pay the full value of the lease, spread over the term of the lease. So if you sign for 1 year at €1000 a month then you are agreeing to pay the total sum of €12000 over the course of the year. If you decide to break the lease early, the landlord is still entitled to persue for whatever remains of the unpaid rent for the duration of the lease. They are entitled to keep whatever deposit that you have given them to put towards this, and then persue you for the remainder if they so choose (most wont bother persuing for the remainder).

To which must be added that the landlord may only collect the rent as it falls due.

However, the landlord is also obliged to mitigate any loss as quickly as possible. In most cases, this is achieved within a month so, unless there is damage, the deposit covers the loss of rent and any costs in getting a new tenant. But id it is a new tenancy (as opposed to an assignment), the new tenancy must be registered so there is also that cost.

xper

Jessica86 wrote: »

Are we obliged to report her due to the fact she has not registered us at the PRTB? I was talking about it at work today, and everyone has a different opinion. But what is the law...

On this point, you are under no legal obligation whatsoever to report her for non-registration. You can choose to do so or not as you see fit. Registration is entirely the responsibility of the landlord and, as has been stated already, non-registration of the tenancy has no bearing on your rights as tenant to refer a dispute to the PTRB.

quietsailor

OP Please, please report her. I'm a landlord myself and I'm sick of these types of landlords, they give the ones of us who care a bad name.