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Land not freehold? What is it?

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  • 27-11-2012 9:26pm
    #1
    cloonton
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭


    Hi folks. I was just looking at a house in an estate that I've my eye on on landdirect.ie this evening and I see that most of the land in the estate has no symbol indicating whether it's freehold, leasehold, etc. A few of the houses in the estate do have the symbol indicating that they are freehold over them, alright, but not "mine". Can anyone tell me what this means? All the neighbouring estates are shown as entirely freehold, so I'm pretty sure it's not an error. Any ideas how difficult it would be, if I were to buy this house, to make it freehold? Thanks!:confused:


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    #2
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    cloonton wrote: »
    Hi folks. I was just looking at a house in an estate that I've my eye on on landdirect.ie this evening and I see that most of the land in the estate has no symbol indicating whether it's freehold, leasehold, etc. A few of the houses in the estate do have the symbol indicating that they are freehold over them, alright, but not "mine". Can anyone tell me what this means? All the neighbouring estates are shown as entirely freehold, so I'm pretty sure it's not an error. Any ideas how difficult it would be, if I were to buy this house, to make it freehold? Thanks!:confused:

    This is an area that makes trained lawyers weep. It could be anything from a Fee farm grant to some sort of bonkers trust. Are you sure they just didn't forget the symbol?

    In answer to the question on turning it into a fee simple (freehold) it could be as easy as giving someone a fiver or involve tracking it back to Henry VIII


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    #3
    cloonton
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭cloonton


    Oh, sweet jebus! I don't like the sound of that. Thanks, Procrastastudy!


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    #4
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    cloonton wrote: »
    Oh, sweet jebus! I don't like the sound of that. Thanks, Procrastastudy!

    It's probably not as complicated as I'm making out - it just potentially is. Give the estate agents a bell and ask. I'm happy to try and give you a steer but the likelihood is you'll need someone qualified.

    Hopefully they just forgot the wee symbol! :)


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    #5
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    This is an area that makes trained lawyers weep. It could be anything from a Fee farm grant to some sort of bonkers trust.

    A fee farm grant is an estate of freehold.


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    #6
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,798 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'd question whether the data is 100% accurate for older estates. I'm pretty certain my entire development is freehold but only those that have sold recently as showing as freehold and the others are hatched as leasehold...


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    #7
    whatnext
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭whatnext


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    It's probably not as complicated as I'm making out - it just potentially is. Give the estate agents a bell and ask. I'm happy to try and give you a steer but the likelihood is you'll need someone qualified.

    Hopefully they just forgot the wee symbol! :)

    Not sure about asking the agent, they will most likely refer you to the vendors legal representative.
    The only reason I say this is when buying my apartment the MIAVI qualified agent insisted I was buying my apartment "outright" when I asked the duration of the lease. I explained what freehold meant and that it was not possible for a fourth floor apartment to which she responded that its not a leasehold they were selling that I "have nothing to worry about". I sent an email in afterwards looking for clarification and their reply was for me to get my solicitor to make contact with the developers legal team via the agent.

    If an EA can qualify without knowing the most basic forms and principles of title I'd be very concerned about getting an honest / correct answer if the title is remotely complex


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    #8
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    whatnext wrote: »
    Not sure about asking the agent, they will most likely refer you to the vendors legal representative.
    The only reason I say this is when buying my apartment the MIAVI qualified agent insisted I was buying my apartment "outright" when I asked the duration of the lease. I explained what freehold meant and that it was not possible for a fourth floor apartment to which she responded that its not a leasehold they were selling that I "have nothing to worry about". I sent an email in afterwards looking for clarification and their reply was for me to get my solicitor to make contact with the developers legal team via the agent.

    If an EA can qualify without knowing the most basic forms and principles of title I'd be very concerned about getting an honest / correct answer if the title is remotely complex

    To redeem myself slightly after misinforming the OP about fee farm grants; it is actually possible (at least at common law) to buy a 4th floor apartment freehold. Its called a flying freehold. Very common in Scotland - never heard of one here.


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    #9
    whatnext
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭whatnext


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    To redeem myself slightly after misinforming the OP about fee farm grants; it is actually possible (at least at common law) to buy a 4th floor apartment freehold. Its called a flying freehold. Very common in Scotland - never heard of one here.

    I own in Scotland too, it's a FUEHOLD, it's quite complex really, and definitely closer to a freehold than a leasehold, but there are some extremely onerous terms depending on where you are in the building


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    #10
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    whatnext wrote: »
    I own in Scotland too, it's a FUEHOLD, it's quite complex really, and definitely closer to a freehold than a leasehold, but there are some extremely onerous terms depending on where you are in the building

    I'm 0 for 2 tonight! :D


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    #11
    Shano81
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Shano81


    cloonton wrote: »
    Hi folks. I was just looking at a house in an estate that I've my eye on on landdirect.ie this evening and I see that most of the land in the estate has no symbol indicating whether it's freehold, leasehold, etc. A few of the houses in the estate do have the symbol indicating that they are freehold over them, alright, but not "mine". Can anyone tell me what this means? All the neighbouring estates are shown as entirely freehold, so I'm pretty sure it's not an error. Any ideas how difficult it would be, if I were to buy this house, to make it freehold? Thanks!:confused:

    It may be registered with the registry of deeds, which would mean it won’t be available to see on land direct.

    Its common enough to make something freehold
    (my dad recently had to do it with my granddads old land)
    Your solicitor will be able to get all details from the vendors solicitor and explain it to you.


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