Uefa to consider scrapping Europa League and extending Champions League

citytillidie

Go back to the 1st champions league format knock out rounds until the last 8 then two groups of 4 with the group winners playing in the final

Will I Amnt

Benimar wrote: »

Not necessarily, With the absence of seeding you could get a hard run the whole way, or an easy run. Each year would be different. Its a bit like the FA cup in that sense.

All I am saying is that it isn't as straightforward as saying that either the old or new systems are 'easier'.

Also, if a team was knocked out in Round one, it doesn't matter how easy the other rounds would have been

Just take Liverpool 81 cup win.

1st round Oulun Palloseura aggregate 11–1

2nd round Aberdeen aggregate 5–0

Quarter final CSKA Sofia aggregate 6–1

Yea, they went on to meet Munich and Madrid but there's no way you will get to the semi-final of the biggest competition in football that easily nowadays.

dsmythy

I'm a fan of the Europa League the only change I'd be open to is to make it straight knockout the whole way through, maybe minus seedings. No qualifying rounds. To have the prize of the Europa League a place in the Champions League rather than the Europa League title itself would actually devalue it.

Leiva

cambo2008 wrote: »

Just take Liverpool 81 cup win.

1st round Oulun Palloseura aggregate 11–1

2nd round Aberdeen aggregate 5–0

Quarter final CSKA Sofia aggregate 6–1

Yea, they went on to meet Munich and Madrid but there's no way you will get to the semi-final of the biggest competition in football that easily nowadays.

See this sort of shít gets up my back.

Just like the tournament today;you can only beat what's in front of you !!

and the team that wins the most wins.

simples!

doesn't need a post mortem or attempted dilution of a valid victory.

Thecon21

bullvine wrote: »

I actually think the champions of their own league should get some more of an advantage, look at City, there gone out but United are true even though runners up last year, personally its a little unfair. They should be rewarded for winning the league even though they've no pedigree in Europe.

What advantage would you give them?

Personally I don't agree with that one

Seaneh

dsmythy wrote: »

To have the prize of the Europa League a place in the Champions League rather than the Europa League title itself would actually devalue it.

No it wouldn't.

It couldn't possibly devalued more than it already is anyway.

The winner of the EL gets less money than a team who finish 4th in the groupstage of the CL.

A spot for the winner of the EL in the CL would be a massive incentive for any club. Especially if they stopped dropping the 3rd place CL teams into it.

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

See this sort of shít gets up my back.

Just like the tournament today;you can only beat what's in front of you !!

and the team that wins the most wins.

simples!

doesn't need a post mortem or attempted dilution of a valid victory.

I'm not saying any different or trying to take away from the win. It's just an instance of where 3 simple games can land you in the semi-final.
Beating Munich and Madrid in the next 2 games more than earned them their cup that year so chill the f**k out.

bullvine

Thecon21 wrote: »

What advantage would you give them?

Personally I don't agree with that one

I don't know, otherwise I might have a job with Uefa but I think the league champions should get some sort of advantage, maybe that they are always top seeds or something.

bucketybuck

Leiva wrote: »

See this sort of shít gets up my back.

Just like the tournament today;you can only beat what's in front of you !!

and the team that wins the most wins.

And who said otherwise?

Its a perfectly obvious point to make. You can only beat whats in front of you, but the current setup ensures that you will have better teams in front of you.

Benimar

cambo2008 wrote: »

Just take Liverpool 81 cup win.

1st round Oulun Palloseura aggregate 11–1

2nd round Aberdeen aggregate 5–0

Quarter final CSKA Sofia aggregate 6–1

Yea, they went on to meet Munich and Madrid but there's no way you will get to the semi-final of the biggest competition in football that easily nowadays.

This is the same Aberdeen who beat Real Madrid in the CWC final 2 years later and were managed by a certain Mr A Ferguson. CSKA were no bad side at that time either, any game in Eastern Europe in those days was tricky.

The_Kew_Tour

Leave it alone. Its not the best format but in saying that don't think changing it could make it much better. Cl is quiet boring till semi final stage now if honest. It's much harder to win it now alright though.

Will I Amnt

Benimar wrote: »

This is the same Aberdeen who beat Real Madrid in the CWC final 2 years later and were managed by a certain Mr A Ferguson. CSKA were no bad side at that time either, any game in Eastern Europe in those days was tricky.

I'm talking about 81 here, 2 years is a long time in football and I'm well aware who managed them.
It was still 3 relatively easy fixtures whatever way you want to try dress it up.

bullvine

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm talking about 81 here, 2 years is a long time in football and I'm well aware who managed them.
It was still 3 relatively easy fixtures whatever way you want to try dress it up.

Go back over any of the pre-champions league seasons and you'll be hard pressed to find a difficult run to the final.

K-9

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm talking about 81 here, 2 years is a long time in football and I'm well aware who managed them.
It was still 3 relatively easy fixtures whatever way you want to try dress it up.

Same as United in 68, its no reflection on either team, the CL now is basically the old European Cup and UEFA Cup in one. I'm sure the 68 team isn't looked down on by United supporters.

The_Kew_Tour

K-9 wrote: »

Same as United in 68, its no reflection on either team, the CL now is basically the old European Cup and UEFA Cup in one. I'm sure the 68 team isn't looked down on by United supporters.

Of course not. But was still easier to win it then. Match fixing helped little too :-)

K-9

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Of course not. But was still easier to win it then. Match fixing helped little too :-)

That too and the Iron Curtain, travel was a luxury then, different times.

Well Liverpool had to win the toughest League to win when they won their 4, so not too sure about that! Forest, Villa winning it and also Spurs and Ipswich winning UEFA Cups with Liverpools 2. They'll still go down as one of the best in the history of the competition so it doesn't really matter.

Eirebear

I must have misread the thread title, maybe it should read "Platini aims to turn Champions League into annual Liverpool Vs Man Utd match"?

Will I Amnt

K-9 wrote: »

Same as United in 68, its no reflection on either team, the CL now is basically the old European Cup and UEFA Cup in one. I'm sure the 68 team isn't looked down on by United supporters.

Jesus, all I'm saying is it's a tougher format now than it was.
Nothing to do with Liverpool or United winning it.

K-9

cambo2008 wrote: »

Jesus, all I'm saying is it's a tougher format now than it was.
Nothing to do with Liverpool or United winning it.

Yep, you keep saying that so it's clear by now.

Will I Amnt

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, you keep saying that so it's clear by now.

Whatever man, just using example.
Offended by everything as usual?

K-9

cambo2008 wrote: »

Whatever man, just using example.
Offended by everything as usual?

Yep, I used an example too. You want to continue the discussion or just post crap like the last 2 posts?

Will I Amnt

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, I used an example too. You want to continue the discussion or just post crap like the last 2 posts?

I was having a civil discussion with Benimar, I used a Liverpool example as he's a Liverpool fan.
You took it up the usual way and tried turning it around to say it was the same for United. I wasn't disagreeing with that.
You used to be a regular contributor here but now seem to just crawl out of the woodwork at the mere mention of the word Liverpool by an opposition fan.
You're getting tiresome at this stage and I'd appreciate if you didn't quote or interact with me in any way from here on in.

The_Kew_Tour

K-9 wrote: »

That too and the Iron Curtain, travel was a luxury then, different times.

Well Liverpool had to win the toughest League to win when they won their 4, so not too sure about that! Forest, Villa winning it and also Spurs and Ipswich winning UEFA Cups with Liverpools 2. They'll still go down as one of the best in the history of the competition so it doesn't really matter.

Liverpools dominance in late 70' and 80's was truly fantastic. Love them or hate them you dont fluke 4 European Cups.

They won them on merit and tbf they were best team in Europe on those 4 occasions. No questions asked. Its just that you only played Champions back then and not teams that may be great teams following season like you do now.

I just think its tougher to win it now. No team has won more then 3 CL in that period.

K-9

cambo2008 wrote: »

I was having a civil discussion with Benimar, I used a Liverpool example as he's a Liverpool fan.
You took it up the usual way and tried turning it around to say it was the same for United. I wasn't disagreeing with that.
You used to be a regular contributor here but now seem to just crawl out of the woodwork at the mere mention of the word Liverpool by an opposition fan.
You're getting tiresome at this stage and I'd appreciate if you didn't quote or interact with me in any way from here on in.

I was having a civil discussion until you started having a go at me for mentioning United and 68, don't know why you are taking it so personally and having a go at me. Seriously, what's the above and the other posts about?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Liverpools dominance in late 70' and 80's was truly fantastic. Love them or hate them you dont fluke 4 European Cups.

They won them on merit and tbf they were best team in Europe on those 4 occasions. No questions asked. Its just that you only played Champions back then and not teams that may be great teams following season like you do now.

I just think its tougher to win it now. No team has won more then 3 CL in that period.

Definitely, it's harder to retain and dominate it, said that earlier. The current Barcelona team would probably have had 3 or 4 in a row back then.

bullvine

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Liverpools dominance in late 70' and 80's was truly fantastic. Love them or hate them you dont fluke 4 European Cups.

They won them on merit and tbf they were best team in Europe on those 4 occasions. No questions asked. Its just that you only played Champions back then and not teams that may be great teams following season like you do now.

I just think its tougher to win it now. No team has won more then 3 CL in that period.

Stop brown nosing!

Columbia

Doocey wrote: »

And what team would miss out on their place if this came into effect? What league would be down one place?

It's a very simple matter to find an extra place in the various qualifying rounds. The year Everton finished 4th and Liverpool won the CL, both entered the following year, and no other team needed to be chucked out over it.

dsmythy

Seaneh wrote: »

No it wouldn't.

It couldn't possibly devalued more than it already is anyway.

The winner of the EL gets less money than a team who finish 4th in the groupstage of the CL.

A spot for the winner of the EL in the CL would be a massive incentive for any club. Especially if they stopped dropping the 3rd place CL teams into it.

The winners would quickly swap winning the Europa League trophy for a piece of paper saying 'in the Champions League next year'

People make the same argument with the FA Cup. Having the winners gain entry to the Champions League wouldn't make it more prestigious. Teams who thought of the FA Cup as a less important cup would now view it as a Champions League qualifying campiagn, not a cup glory run.

carlop

Europa League is interpreted differently in different countries. In Italy and England it is largely viewed as an inconvenience (although sides from the former appear to be taking it a bit more seriously this season). In Spain though, it's a big deal.

Maybe it's because in Spain there is a sense that silverware is so difficult to come by given the quality of the big two, but the buzz around the Europa League last year was huge. I also get the impression it's a big deal in Eastern Europe too.

I don't think it should be scrapped as it gives a lot of teams a chance to compete for silverware that they otherwise simply wouldn't have. I also think teams like Liverpool and Spurs should concentrate a bit more on it, as it gives them their best chance of winning anything this season.

Winning is a habit, and while people may laugh at the Europa League and say it counts for nothing, getting a trophy under the belt can be huge for a team. Look at Porto in 2003, or even Atleti this year who are still riding high on the momentum that parading a trophy around Madrid has brought them.

losthorizon

intellectual dosser wrote: »

That Europa League sounds good....but would that Champions League final not be

ManU/ManC/Che v BAR/RealM

......every year for the next 20 years.

BayernM and AC Milan to make novelty appearances now and again.

considering there have been four different champions in england over the last ten years and three different champions in spain over the last ten years I think not. Plus they could be drawn together in the SF.


Three of the last ten winners of the CL have been Italian and one Portugese.

Will I Amnt

K-9 wrote: »

I was having a civil discussion until you started having a go at me for mentioning United and 68, don't know why you are taking it so personally and having a go at me.

Sorry kiddo, I was hoping not to drag it down to a United v Liverpool thing.
I was having a shìtty day and shouldn't have let it come across in my posts, apologies again, my bad.

K-9

cambo2008 wrote: »

Sorry kiddo, I was hoping not to drag it down to a United v Liverpool thing.
I was having a shìtty day and shouldn't have let it come across in my posts, apologies again, my bad.

Well it's one of those conversations that I find interesting, is the Barca team now better than the Ajax and Bayern team of the 70's, Liverpool of the 70/80's or Milan of the early 90's? You had to win your league then to win the EC, now you don't but Barca have done pretty well in that regard.

kitakyushu

Slightly OT but I think the "you had to win your league back then" to suggest the EC was tougher actually works against its own argument.

To see what I mean, consider that we often see teams win a league in year X and then under-perform the next season (X+1). Well they would have been 100% of their countries representation in year X+1 despite not being a very good team .

Take for instance Leeds in 1992-93. Defending English league champions, domestically they finished 17th in 92-93 but more damagingly were also Englands sole representative in the CL (eliminated at the last 16 stage). Btw I realise that was a CL season, I'm just using it as an example of EC because it was run underthe old style system of only league winners and last years Champ qualifying,

Similarily who knows how many other good teams never played in the European Cup in any given year during the 50s-90s simply because they weren't good enough to win their league the season before?

So rather than weakening competition I think the current system has actually made the tournament far tougher because it makes it far more likely that whoever the top teams in Europe during a particular season are, that they will actually be in the CL competition that particular season.

K-9

kitakyushu wrote: »

Slightly OT but I think the "you had to win your league back then" to suggest the EC was tougher actually works against its own argument.

To see what I mean, consider that we often see teams win a league in year X and then under-perform the next season (X+1). Well they would have been 100% of their countries representation in year X+1 despite not being a very good team .

Take for instance Leeds in 1992-93. Defending English league champions, domestically they finished 17th in 92-93 but more damagingly were also Englands sole representative in the CL (eliminated at the last 16 stage). Btw I realise that was a CL season, I'm just using it as an example of EC because it was run underthe old style system of only league winners and last years Champ qualifying,

Really it's the same as now, Leeds would play in the CL for one season and disappear, the current system rewards consistency.

Similarily who knows how many other good teams never played in the European Cup in any given year during the 50s-90s simply because they weren't good enough to win their league the season before?

Historically that's what the UEFA Cup was for.

So rather than weakening competition I think the current system has actually made the tournament far tougher because it makes it far more likely that whoever the top teams in Europe during a particular season are, that they will actually be in the CL competition that particular season.

It's definitely a better competition and it is harder to win by virtue of there being more teams and not just the league winners in it, a Liverpool or Chelsea can win it.

Richard Hillman

Id like to see the Champions League remain the same and the Uefa cup return to a knockout tournament. With the UEFA Cup being straight knockout it will increase the intensity of the games and clubs can rest their players accordingly when needed.

The only thing I would propose for the Champions League would be to reform it like the Heineken Cup, were the 2nd place teams are not guaranteed to qualify for the next round. It means that every game means something and the intensity will be high. You could even expand it to 40 teams with 10 groups. The top 10 get through and the best 6 of 10 runners up get through as the runners up. It would be great entertainment on gameweek 6. And to avoid any Germany-Austria incidents, you could split the 10 groups into 2 (Tues/Wed) with groups A-E competing for the 3 runners up spots and F-K runners up playing for the other 3 spots.


The TV viewer should be paramount. We fund the sport and increased entertainment should be the main motive to appease us. The higher the intensity and meaning of a game the better for us.

El Inho

can only assume it was all ruined by money, which is successfully being collected now and they wont go back.

They don't really care.

dreamers75

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/05/uefa-europa-league-boost-not-scrap#start-of-comments


CL place for winners.