TV Licence {MEGAMERGE}

WhyTheFace · 12-12-2014 5:00pm

Beano wrote: »

the tv licence is in respect of a property not a person is it not?

Yes but I am the only person living here.

Irrespective of the morality of not paying it, from a legal perspective can they prosecute me if they don't have my actual name on it?

GerardKeating · 12-12-2014 5:06pm

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Yes but I am the only person living here.

Irrespective of the morality of not paying it, from a legal perspective can they prosecute me if they don't have my actual name on it?

If you attend Court, the Judge can "fix" that for you, if you want.

Beano · 12-12-2014 5:08pm

i cant see why they would prosecute you. the property has a licence for a tv

hfallada · 12-12-2014 5:45pm

Beano wrote: »

i cant see why they would prosecute you. the property has a licence for a tv

I get the impression they dont. Hence the reason they have been threatened with legal proceedings

Mr_Red · 12-12-2014 5:50pm

I dont think that is correct.

If I pay my TV licence and then move . They licence comes with me to my new address

Fuzzy Clam · 12-12-2014 5:54pm

Mr_Red wrote: »

I dont think that is correct.

If I pay my TV licence and then move . They licence comes with me to my new address

You have to get the licence transferred to the new address.

Mr_Red · 12-12-2014 5:56pm

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

You have to get the licence transferred to the new address.

I know

WhyTheFace · 12-12-2014 6:23pm

The property doesn't have a license.

Again, forgetting about the morality of paying or not.

If the wrong first name is on it, can I be brought to court?

Do they have to at least get the right person before prosecuting?

Valetta · 12-12-2014 6:26pm

They know it's you.... you know it's you.... the judge will know it's you....

DesperateDan · 12-12-2014 6:26pm

You should pay and then you won't need to worry about it.

seamus · 12-12-2014 6:45pm

Here's a summary of how this would go down in court:

Judge: Are you John Doe?

You: No, I'm James Doe.

Judge: Grand, someone update that record. Now James, does your property have a TV licence?

You: Eh, no.

Judge: Grand. That's a €1,500 fine James. NEXT!

Fred Swanson · 12-12-2014 7:16pm

This post has been deleted.

WhyTheFace · 12-12-2014 7:54pm

seamus wrote: »

Here's a summary of how this would go down in court:

Judge: Are you John Doe?

You: No, I'm James Doe.

Judge: Grand, someone update that record. Now James, does your property have a TV licence?

You: Eh, no.

Judge: Grand. That's a €1,500 fine James. NEXT!

As this is in the legal discussion thread do you know under which laws you can be brought to court even though your name isn't on the summons?

The other fella · 12-12-2014 7:59pm

I had a wrong name on a summons for a traffic offence before, the case was struck out.

WhyTheFace · 12-12-2014 8:00pm

DesperateDan wrote: »

You should pay and then you won't need to worry about it.

It's not about whether I will or not. I probably will. I'm just curious of the legalities surrounding it.

the world wonders · 12-12-2014 8:06pm

WhyTheFace wrote: »

As this is in the legal discussion thread do you know under which laws you can be brought to court even though your name isn't on the summons?

Here you go:

S.I. No. 93/1997 - District Court Rules, 1997

Defects

(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) hereof, no objection shall be taken or allowed on the ground of a defect in substance or in form or an omission in the summons, warrant or other document by which the proceedings were originated, or of any variance between any such document and the evidence adduced on the part of the prosecutor at the hearing of the case in summary proceedings or at the examination of the witnesses during the preliminary examination of an indictable offence, but the Court may amend any such summons, warrant or other document, or proceed in the matter as though no such defect, omission or variance had existed.

Court's discretion

(3) Provided, however, that if in the opinion of the Court the variance, defect or omission is one which had misled or prejudiced the accused or which might affect the merits of the case, it may refuse to make any such amendment and may dismiss the complaint either without prejudice to its being again made, or on the merits, as the Court thinks fit; or if it makes such amendment, it may upon such terms as it thinks fit adjourn the proceedings to any future day at the same or at any other place.

Losty Dublin · 12-12-2014 8:10pm

WhyTheFace wrote: »

As this is in the legal discussion thread do you know under which laws you can be brought to court even though your name isn't on the summons?

This may shed some light on this matter.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0151.html

cerastes · 12-12-2014 8:12pm

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

You have to get the licence transferred to the new address.

yes, so they can find you.

The other fella wrote: »

I had a wrong name on a summons for a traffic offence before, the case was struck out.

In that case, why did you go?

poeticmakaveli · 12-12-2014 8:18pm

judge " Is john doe here?"
prosecuter " no"

when/if they come to you then it's simple.. "my name is James and I was not asked to attend to court!

you are not lying!

until you are asked then fair enough but don't sweat it, and especially this time of year when they are putting pressure on people and bullying them with threats!
of coarse you will have people giving you the grief of " oh you should have your TV license and pay like the rest of us..blah blah".. you asked a question and unless anyone can answer it with a 100 percent positivity then stop trying to give the OP grief! at the end of the day if the OP does suffer it,you won't care or it won't bother you so stop the bitterness of someone choosing to do what they do!

Triboro · 12-12-2014 8:20pm

There is a phone number on the correspondence to call for these tv license matters(waterford number afaik). I had an issue with only my first initial and my surname on the license but was getting renewal notices in my full name.I had the license at my residence so called the number and explained the circumstances....person i spoke to updated details on their computer and that sorted the matter for me anyway!

The other fella · 12-12-2014 9:57pm

cerastes wrote: »

yes, so they can find you.

In that case, why did you go?

I didnt know the case was going to be struck out until i actually went to the court on the date of the summons.

WhyTheFace · 12-12-2014 11:23pm

Some interesting insights. Thanks for the links.

The issue says I got 7 days to pay, but it's xmas time and I don't have a spare 160e.

It's something I'll consider in new year. I just hope the name issue will be enough to prevent prosecution in the mean time.

anewme · 13-12-2014 2:22pm

I actually got one of those 7 day letters too despite never being on the database. All other letters were sent to the occupier. I understand they have to call to your address and speak to you.

When I phoned to query it, they said they'd look into it and come back to me.

No one else lives at the property or has access.

They came back and said the inspector spoke to someone at my address who identified themselves as me and said they had a tv but no licence.

I said they could not as I did not speak to any Inspector ever and no one else has access to the property. I asked for information of the visit.

They came back and gave details (weekend conveniently)

Funny that but I was abroad......................so I have asked them to account for where my data was obtained from?

Valetta · 13-12-2014 3:33pm

anewme wrote: »

I actually got one of those 7 day letters too despite never being on the database. All other letters were sent to the occupier. I understand they have to call to your address and speak to you.

When I phoned to query it, they said they'd look into it and come back to me.

No one else lives at the property or has access.

They came back and said the inspector spoke to someone at my address who identified themselves as me and said they had a tv but no licence.

I said they could not as I did not speak to any Inspector ever and no one else has access to the property. I asked for information of the visit.

They came back and gave details (weekend conveniently)

Funny that but I was abroad......................so I have asked them to account for where my data was obtained from?

Do you have a license?

It's not rocket science to find out who lives at a particular address.

Your name is a matter of public knowledge.

Fuzzy Clam · 13-12-2014 6:25pm

cerastes wrote: »

yes, so they can find you.

That comment is wrong for several reasons.

The licence is for a TV on the address given on the licence, not to track a person.
If you move address, you still require a licence to use a TV at the new address. Therefore, they will know where you are anyway, because you will have had to buy a new licence for the new address. :rolleyes:
This way, you don't need to pay for a second licence.

Not point in been cynical for the sake of it.

ted1 · 13-12-2014 6:26pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

If you attend Court, the Judge can "fix" that for you, if you want.

If it's not addressed to you, throw it in the bin

Fuzzy Clam · 13-12-2014 6:28pm

Valetta wrote: »

It's not rocket science to find out who lives at a particular address.

Especially when An Post, who deliver your post, are responsible for the collection of the licence fee

poeticmakaveli · 13-12-2014 6:31pm

Valetta wrote:

It's not rocket science to find out who lives at a particular address.

Valetta wrote:

Your name is a matter of public knowledge.

well it obviously is for them coz they couldn't get his proper name!
Also they can't get it too handy as I know people who won't answer the door if they see them and they have been getting away with it a few years(dont be bitter some people if they are able to get away with it) of coarse they will send the frightening threats to scare you and make you worry,bring stress upon you,threaten,etc but they will have no name on it that concerns the person living at that address! "junk mail" you lifted it up and didn't bother reading it coz your name is NOT on it! YOU DID NOT GET A LETTER FROM THE TV LICENSE WITH YOUR NAME ON IT!

The long and short of it all is they haven't issued you with a summons... its not your name and it doesn't concern you at this moment! until you get it in the door with your proper birth name then deal with it! don't let anyone worry you about it!
in actual fact..send it back with "not known at this address and then they will realise that they will be paying a solicitor money to bring a person who does not go by that name to court!!or maybe you should let them waste money on paying a solicitor,because that's what they will be doing!
You will end up paying it in the long run, but let them work to get your proper name on it..that's their job and let them find it out!

If anyone is wondering why I'm speaking like this is because I've known a person who committed suicide because they weren't able to keep up with money demands from banks,etc and it's them threats that has people's mind gone,(go on say it.."they shouldn't be getting it if they are not able to pay it back")and yes people have to pay a TV license,etc but there is some good people in life that are struggling to keep up and them threatening court letters are just wrong at this time of year!! Let people breath over December and let them give it a go in January when the burdens of Xmas drag the helpless down with worry! its hard enough for some and some has it better than others, some people's minds are in better places than others,people love to kick others instead of helping,I don't know if it's just irish culture or just a human disease that's taking over the mass!
rant over
happy Xmas everyone :-)

cerastes · 13-12-2014 7:29pm

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

That comment is wrong for several reasons.

The licence is for a TV on the address given on the licence, not to track a person.
If you move address, you still require a licence to use a TV at the new address. Therefore, they will know where you are anyway, because you will have had to buy a new licence for the new address. :rolleyes:
This way, you don't need to pay for a second licence.

Not point in been cynical for the sake of it.

Im not saying it is to track a person, just that they will know that transferring a licence will enable them to now know your new address, personally Id rather they didnt in that case and Id happily let some of a licence slide for that.
Neither will you have to buy a new licence for the new address, unless you have a tv there, even then, its dodgy charge and there is every reason to be cynical about it, given its handed over to an organisation I could have no say in how the funding is spent or any decision in what service I want or even an explanation where it goes when they try and collect it, just some such shyte as "they heard it all before"
You wont need to pay for a licence full stop if you decide.

The service should be subscription, but its not, its compulsory, bit Pravda/TASS-esque dont you think?

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Especially when An Post, who deliver your post, are responsible for the collection of the licence fee

Ive read somewhere that they cant use that information from your post, otherwise if they were allowed, why would they send it the, "the occupier" in fact Id rather they had the wrong name, you can ignore it more easily that way.
Id suggest getting mail at an address isn't necessarily a suggestion you are currently an occupier, Ive had mail delivered to the address I grew up at until I moved into my own home. There might be a number of people living at an address, who would be liable? or how would they determine if that person was the responsible person?

Fuzzy Clam · 13-12-2014 8:07pm

cerastes wrote: »

Im not saying it is to track a person, just that they will know that transferring a licence will enable them to now know your new address, personally Id rather they didnt in that case and Id happily let some of a licence slide for that.
Neither will you have to buy a new licence for the new address, unless you have a tv there,

The service should be subscription, but its not, its compulsory, bit Pravda/TASS-esque dont you think?

Ive read somewhere that they cant use that information from your post, otherwise if they were allowed, why would they send it the, "the occupier" in fact Id rather they had the wrong name, you can ignore it more easily that way.
Id suggest getting mail at an address isn't necessarily a suggestion you are currently an occupier, Ive had mail delivered to the address I grew up at until I moved into my own home. There might be a number of people living at an address, who would be liable? or how would they determine if that person was the responsible person?

I've edited out the part of your reply about why you should pay for the licence in the first place because it's for an entirely different discussion.

You are under no obligation to transfer the licence over to your new address. If you have, as you state, no TV at the new address, or you just want to slide under their radar, then don't. It's as simple as that. For most law abiding people, being able to transfer a licence to a new home makes sense. If one wasn't able to do this, then Boards.ie would be crammed with folk complaining

Your right, just getting post to an address is not proof of occupancy. However, I'm sure they can find out who is liable for the address.

TV Licence {MEGAMERGE}

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