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TV Licence {MEGAMERGE}

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    #452
    fxotoole
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    Bruthal wrote: »
    How? Explain exactly how.

    I just did.
    Bruthal wrote: »
    A house with fixed address has no licence.

    They have to do more than approach boards and get IP address, to match that address with a house address. A house addres that is there for all to see already.

    So what is boards posts going to tell them?

    You're right - they have to do more than ask boards for an IP address. Read back through my post. They ask boards for the IP address, then armed with the IP address, they can find the associated account holder's details by asking various ISP providers if they have that IP address on their books.


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    #453
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #454
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    fxotoole wrote: »
    I just did.



    You're right - they have to do more than ask boards for an IP address. Read back through my post. They ask boards for the IP address, then armed with the IP address, they can find the associated account holder's details by asking various ISP providers if they have that IP address on their books.

    Yea, so I post here now that I have no TV licence. So they will now get onto boards, get my IP address, then get onto isp's to get my home address. Then call around to see if I actually have a TV. Or a licence. And will they check if I was actually the poster on boards....

    TV licence thing must be up there with murder now, or else it looks like the comedy continues on this collection of rte tax via boards postings.


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    #455
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Yea, so I post here now that I have no TV licence. So they will now get onto boards, get my IP address, then get onto isp's to get my home address. Then call around to see if I actually have a TV. Or a licence. And will they check if I was actually the poster on boards....

    TV licence thing must be up there with murder now, or else it looks like the comedy continues on this collection of rte tax via boards postings.
    Firstly, I'd advise re-reading the posts before people started getting out of control about TV licence inspectors getting your IP address and realise the initial point was regarding perjury.

    Secondly, of €182.4m in licence fees, RTÉ television only got €75.66m in 2013; RTÉ radio got €29.6; other services (orchestra, DTT, online) got €21.48m. The rest of the €33.26m (roughly 21%) of the revenue from the TV Licence went to TG4, BAI and An Post (for collection costs).

    If you believe TV licence should be abolished, fine campaign against it and get the law changed, but as it stands you are required to have one if you qualify and I'm sick of people trying to scam the system when others are playing by the rules.


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    #456
    Wheelnut
    Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Wheelnut


    I don't think it was suggested that An Post would go through all those procedures involving IP addresses etc. I think the point was that they could.


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    #457
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    They could just abolish the license and increase tax slightly.

    Or abolish the license and get rid of the stations.

    Or just keep doing what they are doing.


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    #458
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Obviously less than the €13.33 per month it costs for a TV Licence.
    Grolschevik wrote: »
    An hour to do all the stages that guy did?

    Disassemble a TV.
    Identify the relevant part.
    Remove the relevant part without damaging the ability to use it as a monitor.
    Take photos.
    Locate the relevant circuit diagram.
    Identify the relevant component on the diagram.
    Read the relevant law.
    Turn up in court and hang around til it's your turn.
    Take the stand and lie.

    All in an hour?

    Right, so if someone can convert a tv into a monitor, its not worth while if it takes more than the cost of a tv licence for 1, 2, or 6 months?

    It must be great to be in a life where all your spare time is calculated at a price per hour.

    Also, calculating the time in court as well? As in, pay your tv licence even if you are now not liable, as the time in court will be at a price per hour as well...

    Some posters are different in their perfect boards land than in reality land id say.


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    #459
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Right, so if someone can convert a tv into a monitor, its not worth while if it takes more than the cost of a tv licence for 1, 2, or 6 months?

    It must be great to be in a life where all your spare time is calculated at a price per hour.

    Also, calculating the time in court as well? As in, pay your tv licence even if you are now not liable, as the time in court will be at a price per hour as well...

    Some posters are different in their perfect boards land than in reality land id say.
    In fairness a lot of us are lawyers, so we're well used to calculating our time as price per hour. :pac:


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    #460
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    In fairness a lot of us are lawyers, so we're well used to calculating our time as price per hour. :pac:

    Yea great. Plenty of people calculate hourly rates, but most will likely not calculate the rate of bringing their dogs for a walk, kids off somewhere, or sitting to watch a movie, or anything they do in spare time.

    But there will be some that do im sure.


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    #461
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Yea great. Plenty of people calculate hourly rates, but most will likely not calculate the rate of bringing their dogs for a walk, kids off somewhere, or sitting to watch a movie, or anything they do in spare time.

    But there will be some that do im sure.
    I think the point still stands:

    If one really values their time so lowly to disassemble their TV, go to court and then re-assemble it in order to avoid paying a TV licence then that's a bit silly isn't it?

    I don't think anyone is arguing that if your monitor is not a TV for the purposes of the legislation you should pay for the licence because it is easier.


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    #462
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I think the point still stands:

    If one really values their time so lowly to disassemble their TV, go to court and then re-assemble it in order to avoid paying a TV licence then that's a bit silly isn't it?
    Someone removing the tuner to make the tv into purely a monitor, wont be putting it back in. Unless of course all your points are about a single person.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that if your monitor is not a TV for the purposes of the legislation you should pay for the licence because it is easier.
    Well a person removing the tuner to convert the tv to a monitor, according to another poster, should add court time in as part of the conversion time. So it seems to suggest that its easier to just pay the fee once you have any sort of screen.

    And I have said here for years, that as soon as the tv is not the primary method of receiving broadcast pictures, or that tvs have a bigger use than tuning, that the tv licence will change name. They want every premises to pay in reality. The tv link is just symbolic.


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    #463
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Someone removing the tuner to make the tv into purely a monitor, wont be putting it back in. Unless of course all your points are about a single person.

    Someone did suggest something just like that on this thread. Or actually it was more like "show the judge some pics of a busted TV" in order to avoid paying an otherwise required TV licence.

    I was merely pointing out that a successful defence of having converted a TV into a monitor would require significantly more time and effort than simply taking a few snaps of a disassembled TV...


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    #464
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,008 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    So what is the legal position, in theory, of someone being brought to court on the say-so of an inspector, who claims there is a functioning TV in a premises without a TV licence?

    It seems to be the case, from what I have read in preceding posts, that when in court the inspectors 'word' is taken as fact and not opinion, when determining the outcome. Maybe I misinterpret what was written.

    So if I have a device in my home that I know to be a Monitor, but a TV licence inspector decides - maybe by a look through a window (or not) - that I have a TV, why, from a legal standpoint should his opinion be taken over mine?

    His opinion is obviously based on a guess, and in court I am prepared to go on oath ..... would it not be necessary for the court to find in my favour as the only evidence would be two 'opinions' one of which could be sworn to 'as fact'?

    I accept that bringing third party witness accounts would help ..... but I am asking where only two people appear with no supporting evidence.


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    #465
    18MonthsaSlave
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    If one really values their time so lowly to disassemble their TV, go to court and then re-assemble it in order to avoid paying a TV licence
    160x10 or 15 years isn't a small amount.


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    #466
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,371 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    If one really values their time so lowly to disassemble their TV, go to court and then re-assemble it in order to avoid paying a TV licence then that's a bit silly isn't it?

    Matters of principle are often considered 'a bit silly' for those who don't share them
    ie water protestors
    bin charge protestors
    educations protests
    strikes
    etc
    etc
    etc


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    #467
    Wheelnut
    Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Wheelnut


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    ... water protestors
    bin charge protestors
    educations protests
    strikes
    etc
    etc
    etc

    What about mobile phone mast protesters? Whatever became of them? Maybe they micro-waved their brains while organising meetings on their mobile phones!
    :D


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    #468
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Matters of principle are often considered 'a bit silly' for those who don't share them
    ie water protestors
    bin charge protestors
    educations protests
    strikes
    etc
    etc
    etc
    I don't feel my tax money should go to funding endless, non-means-tested social welfare; should I be entitled to stop paying as a matter of principle?


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    #469
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I don't feel my tax money should go to funding endless, non-means-tested social welfare; should I be entitled to stop paying as a matter of principle?
    Youre entitled to protest.


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    #470
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,724 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    What are you protesting against if you haven't paid your taxes? The nature of centralised power means the State it's entitled to tax citizens. You can only influence how the taxes are spent by protesting or exercising your vote.

    If you don't pay the tax, why do you care how it's spent?


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    #471
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Youre entitled to protest.

    But that's the thing; I'm not entitled to do so. Whatever your reason for "protesting" TV licence, the law of the land is that if you own a tv you must hold a licence.


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    #472
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,371 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I don't feel my tax money should go to funding endless, non-means-tested social welfare; should I be entitled to stop paying as a matter of principle?

    Why not? If you feel that strongly about something and are prepared to take the consequences then go for it.


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    #473
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,724 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Why not? If you feel that strongly about something and are prepared to take the consequences then go for it.

    I don't want to speak for FreudianSlippers but surely the point is that tax isn't optional. It's part of our system of government. That you have to pay tax cannot be influenced by protests but there is some merit to protesting in order to change the way the government spends your taxes.


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    #474
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    I don't want to speak for FreudianSlippers but surely the point is that tax isn't optional. It's part of our system of government. That you have to pay tax cannot be influenced by protests but there is some merit to protesting in order to change the way the government spends your taxes.

    +1

    By all means protest for change to the law, but you must live within the letter of the law whilst protesting.


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    #475
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,371 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    I don't want to speak for FreudianSlippers but surely the point is that tax isn't optional. It's part of our system of government. That you have to pay tax cannot be influenced by protests but there is some merit to protesting in order to change the way the government spends your taxes.

    Tax is paid on a self assessment system. Other than PAYE is is really upto you how much you pay so it would be easy to not pay your share or under declare 'in protest' at social welfare spending. As I said as long as you are happy to pay the consequences for your behaviour then go for it.

    Comparing tax and TV license is a red herring though as tax goes to central government for the (supposed) benefit of all whereas TV license goes to a private corporation that has no responsibilities to the consumer that pays for it.
    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    +1



    By all means protest for change to the law, but you must live within the letter of the law whilst protesting.

    Says you. On a matter of principle if I disagreed with a law so strongly I would be happy to be outside the law and face the consequences of my actions.


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    #476
    chases0102
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭chases0102


    I got a 'Statutory Declaration' letter in the post yesterday. Interestingly, it was addressed to my name - previously, I received two fairly standard letters to 'the occupier'.

    How in the hell did they get my name? Revenue? Post Office?

    Anyway, I'm going to do the dutiful thing and pay it. Are these 'Statutory Declarations' just a further rung up the threatening scale?


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    #477
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #478
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Seriously. Just pay it.


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    #479
    Hans Bricks
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hans Bricks


    One has to ask then why Boards.ie stores IP addresses ? Since were so vulnerable to some miserable sod who wants to go after another poster who states their evasion of the TV license ?


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    #480
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,371 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Seriously. Just pay it.

    No


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    #481
    youngblood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭youngblood


    got a card put through the letter box when I was out, to "occupier" saying the inspector had called, marked "visit 1", no licence etc....

    what happens next? Do i get another visit? Official letter??


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