Request For Feedback: Bullying

username123

Wibbs wrote: »

To you U. I'm most certainly not dismissing you or that it was or wasn't by saying that, but you see what we mean when sometimes it can be very hard to judge this stuff when it's low level?

Absolutely. I never tried to follow it up in any official capacity because I can see exactly that point. But if we are having feedback about bullying in general I am glad of the opportunity to raise it in a non-official capacity.

I think it is clear that I felt treated unfairly in the particularly situation but not so much that I wanted more action - I just took my infraction and said nothing.

Wibbs wrote: »

Certainly, but there's a bit of a disconnect regarding PM's because as you discovered reported PM's go only to admins. The admin in question likely has no idea of context so just takes the PM on it's own merit. If they decided to look at context for every non obvious case they might have to sieve through 100's of post interactions and IMHO no way should they have to be doing that as volunteers like the rest of us. In more obvious cases they either ban the sender involved, or involve local mods to get their take as they'll have a better idea of context.

Yes, I never even thought about that disconnect before and when it was explained to me it made perfect sense.

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I have and others do, but I take your(and P's) point, maybe "take it to PM" should be looked at and discussed in light of this thread?

I think that again its about context. Telling people to take disagreements to pm seems silly, but telling people to take off topic chats where there is no disagreement might be appropriate?

Micky Dolenz

I don't really see "take it to PM" very often and I always thought it was a polite way of telling arguing posters to shut up.

Benny_Cake

In a Boards context, I'd see bullying as behaviour which would tend to make the target feel uncomfortable about posting on a forum, or anywhere on Boards.That's pretty vague, but generally if it is bad behaviour on a thread or in a single forum, it should be possible for the mods to handle it within the context of the charter. Where it gets more serious is if someone gets abusive or threatening via PM, or starts following a particular poster from forum to forum simply to goad them, or, as I've witnessed unfortunately, where a user gets slagged off in a thread where they aren't even posting at the time. I'm inclined to think a ban of some description should follow in those instances, varying on the severity of the bullying.

As someone who (tries) to mod a forum in the religious subcategory, I'm all too aware of how wound up people can get during a long debate and it can quite quickly take on a personal tone.I'd imagine that the same applies to Politics and Soccer..but it may not always amount other bullying and can be usually resolved through the normal channels. It's helpful to have this debate though, there is enough nastiness that people face in the real world without having to deal with it here.

username123

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I don't really see "take it to PM" very often and I always thought it was a polite way of telling arguing posters to shut up.

Maybe it is. I have seen it alright. The problem if you receive an unwanted nasty pm is that you really dont know if this is just a harmless one off or someone weird that youd be best off not to engage with at all. As in real life, no one wants to draw weirdos onto themselves.

Micky Dolenz

username123 wrote: »

Maybe it is. I have seen it alright. The problem if you receive an unwanted nasty pm is that you really dont know if this is just a harmless one off or someone weird that youd be best off not to engage with at all. As in real life, no one wants to draw weirdos onto themselves.

One off digs can be hard to nail down but worth reporting all the same. If it's more then once, always worth keeping a track of the low level stuff so links can be looked at.

Harassment is something we take very seriously and in the past have spent a lot of time reviewing claims.

Logical_Bear

the ignore button is there for a reason.Use it!!

El Guapo!

I recently got a red card for a comment I made in AH. The comment was off the cuff and was really meant in a light-hearted, humorous way but it wasn't seen that way by a mod.
My first reaction was basically "wtf was the red card for?". But when I took a closer look at it, I realised that was I said could well have been construed as a "bullying" post.
I immediately sent a pm to the person and apologised for my post. They were totally cool with it and didn't seem to see it as bullying but I can see how a more sensitive poster may have been offended by it.
I'm normally careful about what I say as I'd never intentionally go out to hurt someones feelings or anything. I despise bullying in all forms and I've never bullied anyone in my life.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that sometimes a person may make a comment which they feel is perfectly innocent but could in fact be taken to heart by the person it's aimed at. They may not realise what they said is hurtful. And this is where the mod should step in and nip it in the bud.
In my situation, the mod stepped in and instantly gave me a red card and explained why I was getting it. It was only then that I saw it from a different point of view. The mod in question did a good job in my opinion. Maybe a quiet word first might have sufficed but I suppose an example has to be made, and a precedent must be set.

I don't think there can be any rules really set in stone. Each case must be looked at on an individual basis. The "bully" in question must be looked at in depth. Does their post history show a pattern of bullying towards a certain poster? Or could it be a one-off careless remark?
It's a tricky situation and could be tough to moderate effectively but I think common sense should prevail and everything taken case by case rather than a blanket, zero tolerance policy enforced.

Steve

Dean09 wrote: »

I recently got a red card for a comment I made in AH. The comment was off the cuff and was really meant in a light-hearted, humorous way but it wasn't seen that way by a mod.
My first reaction was basically "wtf was the red card for?". But when I took a closer look at it, I realised that was I said could well have been construed as a "bullying" post.
I immediately sent a pm to the person and apologised for my post. They were totally cool with it and didn't seem to see it as bullying but I can see how a more sensitive poster may have been offended by it.
I'm normally careful about what I say as I'd never intentionally go out to hurt someones feelings or anything. I despise bullying in all forms and I've never bullied anyone in my life.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that sometimes a person may make a comment which they feel is perfectly innocent but could in fact be taken to heart by the person it's aimed at. They may not realise what they said is hurtful. And this is where the mod should step in and nip it in the bud.
In my situation, the mod stepped in and instantly gave me a red card and explained why I was getting it. It was only then that I saw it from a different point of view. The mod in question did a good job in my opinion. Maybe a quiet word first might have sufficed but I suppose an example has to be made, and a precedent must be set.

I don't think there can be any rules really set in stone. Each case must be looked at on an individual basis. The "bully" in question must be looked at in depth. Does their post history show a pattern of bullying towards a certain poster? Or could it be a one-off careless remark?
It's a tricky situation and could be tough to moderate effectively but I think common sense should prevail and everything taken case by case rather than a blanket, zero tolerance policy enforced.

What you said there really defines this issue from a moderation standpoint.

There are a small percentage of people who get offended at the slightest thing - there are the opposite small percentage of people who will take any level of abuse like water off a ducks back. Then there are the normal people in the middle.

Being able to see if someone who calls bullying belongs to the group in the middle is not an easy call, just as hard as being able to spot those who are actually being bullied but don't have the confidence to make a complaint.

In general, there are some excellent points being raised in this thread - I hope we can all learn from them, I know I will.:)

username123

I know when I first started posting on any message boards on the internet I would have come across as far less articulate than I do now. I also may well have made unsubstantiated claims, generally aired opinion as fact and all the other naive things that noobies do when they start posting.

There is a learning process where you basically sharpen up and learn that you have to be able to debate properly, back up claims, articulate yourself properly, attack the post not the poster etc....

I think sometimes newer posters get scared away during that process because they find themselves on the end of a lot of intelligent people demanding that they talk sense.

Im sure a similar number get scared away from certain forums or message boards because they hold an unpopular opinion, feel ganged up upon, become emotionally involved and fail to remember that they are just having a debate with strangers.

I think it would pay us all heed to be mindful because either of the examples above could feel like bullying to someone.

Black Swan

Mods can help. When I was a newbie user about 6 years ago (2006), another user was bullying me. He was a low level troll that was posting unkind things about me, was subtle in his comments, and did not clearly break the guidelines. I PM'd mod Victor for help, and I don't know what he did, but the bullying stopped immediately. Thanks Victor. You are my hero.

Lazarus2.0

What do you define as bullying?
Behaviour intended to or likely to impact on real life . This can be as blatantly obvious as threats (declared or implied) of physical harm or more insiduous and emotionally damaging such as cross-forum stalking , visitor messages , PMs , etc .
Forums that come across as oppressive or cliquey , while no doubt unwelcome, are a very tame form of bullying in comparison and should be dealt with at mod or Cmod level as needs be . For sure nobody should feel unwelcome to post on boards but that can and should be fixed locally .

What do you feel is the best way to tackle it? Discussion? straight ban? warning then ban?
Straight ban where that line is deemed to have been crossed . Places a marker on the account if the ban is successfully appealed . Obviously any repetition should then be instant permban . T&C's No 5

Is it actually an issue in your opinion or is it just the nature of semi-anonymous online discussion?
Less of an issue on thread-based forums such as Boards where there is a 'moral compass' (users can report + mods and/or upwards can intervene) compared to personal pages (Facebook etc) but certainly is an issue .

To what extent do you think Boards has a responsibility to respond to issues that occur outside of boards itself?
If Boards is aware of an issue occurring outside it's scope or beyond it's abilities to manage the user should be contacted with best advice on how to deal with the situation .


I suppose a dropdown 'reason for reporting' isn't an option on the current platform ? If it were you'd at least see a tendency to report or be reported for the same offence and could probably nip things in the bud either way...

LoLth

so, is the difference between bullying and (perhaps unwittingly) deserved anger driven response a timeframe thing?

a single thread where a user has posted an unpopular opinion and gets a vocal negative reaction (not hitting a level that would constitute abuse) is just that, a community reacting.

if this happens repeatedly with the same parties on both sides hten its bullying?

what if its in the same forum every time and the unpopular opinion is the same or very similar each time? Is this bullying or expected behaviour?

If its a user being followed across forums and over time, how many crossings what length of time would be a good approximation before we can say "this looks like bullying we need to talk to the user(s) involved" ?

Tombi!

I think that repeatedly posting "unpopular" opinions would be trolling.
There's an unpopular opinions thread in AH now and the mod note states (paraphrased): "if your opinion is too unpopular then you shouldn't post it".

I suppose the community reacting the same way to the same person that's posting the same type of threads/opinions is more of a "you really shouldn't be posting these opinions" rather than "you should let this person express an opinion that'll annoy other people".

At the end of the day, if I'm going to come into the single parenting forum and start posting with the opinion that single parents are bad and two parents will always be better, then that's more of me lacking common sense. I could back up my opinions with hundreds of hundreds of links, articles, studies, etc but it's not going to be welcome in that forum.
If someone is being "bullied" by posting something that'll rile up the community, it's really that users fault if they keep on doing it.

As for being followed across threads, I suppose it's really just a "do these posters normally post in the forums they're now going to" and in either case, are the responses by them being aimed at the same person and it is escalating to flames or trolling quickly and if it is, who's more responsible. Of course, a case-by-case basis is a necessity I think.

Earthhorse

LoLth wrote: »

so, is the difference between bullying and (perhaps unwittingly) deserved anger driven response a timeframe thing?

Timeframe is an element but also it's about escalation and aggression. It's okay to be angry or to vehemently disagree with someone; but if you seek to get personal, to goad the other person or to otherwise engage in behaviours I, and others, outlined earlier then you're probably more interested in bullying that debating.

a single thread where a user has posted an unpopular opinion and gets a vocal negative reaction (not hitting a level that would constitute abuse) is just that, a community reacting.

Even if it's not you couldn't prove otherwise. One swallow doesn't make a summer. It may well be bullying but you have to be practical about what you can prove or make stick.

if this happens repeatedly with the same parties on both sides hten its bullying?

what if its in the same forum every time and the unpopular opinion is the same or very similar each time? Is this bullying or expected behaviour?

I don't think it should be about unpopular opinions or robust debate; both should be welcome on boards. It should be about personalisation, aggression (not the same as annoyance), disingenuity etc.

If its a user being followed across forums and over time, how many crossings what length of time would be a good approximation before we can say "this looks like bullying we need to talk to the user(s) involved" ?

It should really be about frequency in my opinion. Twice over ten years is nothing. Ten times in two years may indicate a problem. Don't pin yourself down to one measure or metric. Use guidelines and good judgement; if a user is consistently being harassed to the point where their ability to post is hampered by others it will be apparent in the paper trail.

Princess Peach

Wibbs wrote: »

There's one aspect I'm hesitant to discuss in case it's misconstrued, but I feel maybe a bit of discussion is warranted... Some people can enable what looks like bullying type behaviour in others who wouldn't ordinarily be that type at all. This "victim" type of person may even get emotional feedback(even if it's unhealthy) from this kinda thing and goad others. That can be a hard one to navigate if and when it comes up. Other folks may be too quick to call the "bully" card knowing it's a serious thing. That for me is when the nuanced stuff starts to get head scratchy.

I've seen this happen too. Some people seem to thrive on the attention, negative or otherwise, and probably more so then on the people who jump in in defense.

But the way I feel is that just because someone puts the bait out there, doesn't really excuse those who take the bait and jump on the opportunity to get that sly dig in. Ignoring it is always the best option in this case.

LoLth

@Earthhorse (sorry PrincessPeach posted - try saying that ten times fast - while I was responding and it looked like I was referring to her post)

maybe I'm picking up your point wrong so please feel free to correct me.

I agree (personally not necessarily adminally (yeah, I know) ) with the latter half of your post but the first bit raises a question:

when an attempt is made to personalise or goad is that not already covered under abuse? That shouldnt, imho, get to the stage where its a threat of bullying because perosnal abuse / threats should be reported straihgt away and if clear, acted upon by the mod team.

I dont think we can make a policy to deal with a potential bully or a propensity to engage in bullying behaviour, this being a text medium we cant hear the tone used when someone posts "I bet you're popular in real life" to know if its a compliment or threatening or just plain creepy.

Also, from the few cases that I have seen and agree are actually bullying on boards, its rarely openly aggressive or abusive. as I said, that gets caught very quickly and gets dealt with under the abuse rules. More often its repeated vague comments, or thanking any post that criticises a particular user or seagull posting threads to "remind" those arguing against the target of past mistakes they have made etc. To me, and this is not based on any boards behaviour that I have seen, its the power-behind-the-throne manipulative type of bullying that I find hardest to spot and also hardest to prove. Coincidentally I consider this to be the worst kind of bullying as its almost subliminal to the victim and I've seen it result in an almost paranoia where any comment is taken as a personal attack and even humour takes on a much darker cast.


I apologise to anyone wanting to post and thinking that their post is no longer relevant. I'm not trying to steer the discusion here, I'm just trying to pick up a bit on a point that particularly caught my attention. A quick thanks to all who have posted so far by the way, some very clear and salient points raised and already some food for thought amongst the mod team.

Earthhorse

LoLth wrote: »

I agree (personally not necessarily adminally (yeah, I know) ) with the latter half of your post but the first bit raises a question:

when an attempt is made to personalise or goad is that not already covered under abuse? That shouldnt, imho, get to the stage where its a threat of bullying because perosnal abuse / threats should be reported straihgt away and if clear, acted upon by the mod team.

Perhaps so, but some personalisation and goading isn't quite strong enough to count as abuse that will be actioned. This relates to your paragraph below so I'll address it there.

I dont think we can make a policy to deal with a potential bully or a propensity to engage in bullying behaviour, this being a text medium we cant hear the tone used when someone posts "I bet you're popular in real life" to know if its a compliment or threatening or just plain creepy.

I agree that tone is lacking in text but there is context and, again, over time, I think one can, with a fair degree of accuracy build a profile of the user's intent.

Also, from the few cases that I have seen and agree are actually bullying on boards, its rarely openly aggressive or abusive. as I said, that gets caught very quickly and gets dealt with under the abuse rules. More often its repeated vague comments, or thanking any post that criticises a particular user or seagull posting threads to "remind" those arguing against the target of past mistakes they have made etc. To me, and this is not based on any boards behaviour that I have seen, its the power-behind-the-throne manipulative type of bullying that I find hardest to spot and also hardest to prove. Coincidentally I consider this to be the worst kind of bullying as its almost subliminal to the victim and I've seen it result in an almost paranoia where any comment is taken as a personal attack and even humour takes on a much darker cast.

I agree, this is a tough one to detect, make stick and moderate. It's insipid and I've seen it myself. This is the kind of personalisation and goading I was talking about; that doesn't quite amount to enough to action on its own but, over time, should. It's hard to know whether thanking a post that attacks a user or saying things like "Well, once you move out you might gain a fuller perspective on life" is just the user expressing an opinion or taking a pot shot. Again, I think that if they are repeatedly taking these kinds of actions then the body of evidence can stand as something that can be sanctioned. The "bully" should be told to reign it in a little in such circumstances; if they don't, you then take stronger action.

I don't imagine this is something that will be used all that often but I don't think boards should be afraid to say to people "We don't appreciate that style of debating around here, take it elsewhere".

I hope that's answered your questions anyway.

PC CDROM

Bullying seems to be something that "other people" do. Never the perpetrators. Bullying is not something that people actually do. If that makes sense.

It is the perception of what has or is being done.

One mans long lolcat response if funny to some but seen as demeaning by others. It really depends on were the majority opinion lies.

In saying that some people are too sensitive. Be it what ever issues they have going on in their lives.

Some fat obese people are always going to have issues with a thread slagging off fat and obese people, even if the thread does have merits in its origins. But is slagging OK?

It will be hard call to know what is right and wrong but what is need is a consistency in what is done. Black versus white. Less "Grey". I.E. "shure I was only messing"

LeeHoffmann

I also like Earthorse´s list (well done btw )and most of what I have noted below comes from there. I think it would be more helpful to deal with bullying behaviour rather than bullies per se. That way you can side step the issue of whether poster X is really a nasty little monster who´s only out to ruin everyone´s fun, and just focus on whether or not the behaviour is acceptable. Rather than saying to somebody you´re a bully - you´re banned´, you could say ´your behaviour in examples 1, 2 and 3 is classed as bullying behaviour by boards policy. Please refrain from doing 1, 2 and 3 again´. If the poster continues to do these things, infract. If they continue, ban.

If you were to do this, a list of criteria for what constitutes bullying behaviour would be essential. IMO the following seems like a good start for such a list:
- constantly using very aggressive language and attitudes towards particular posters
- seeking to escalate and personalise arguments
- portraying their opponents as outsiders or "other"
- using an entirely different tone when dealing with other posters
- having double standards with regard to how their posts and their opponent´s posts should be interpreted etc.
- seeking to belittle the feelings of other posters
- seeking to minimise the extent of what took place (eg saying a heated argument was light-hearted and not seriously meant etc)
- encouraging others to gang up on one poster (I know this is a tough one to ascertain, but e.g. I know of one poster who frequently ´talks´ about his opponents opinions to his supporters in the third person on thread - basically disparaging his opponent´s point of view while ignoring him personally and at the same time encouraging other people to enter into debate with his opponent. In other words, he talks about posters on thread rather than talking to them. I find this...dodgy and unsettling).

^ I don´t mean that anytime anybody does even one of the above, they should be infracted. More that if somebody feels bullying is taking place, they can go to the list of criteria and see if any of those things (and how many of them) are taking place. It might also help with the issue of whether a poster is being overly-sensitive or not.

where this behaviour is directed consistently at the same person or people.

I would also add ´group of people´ to that. What I´m getting at here is if somebody constantly uses aggressive language and a derisory tone for anyone who holds a particular view (e.g. a pro-abortion standpoint, religious beliefs, etc) so that posters feel uncomfortable expressing their opinion on an issue in a particular forum. Particularly when this takes place in one forum it can become a bit like "opinion X is not welcome here :mad:". I don´t think that posters should feel like they have to avoid particular forums because they know they will be subject to unnecessary and immediate aggression.
Obviously trolling (e.g. saying all single parents are bad parents in a single parents forum) is an exception.

bullies should not be confused with people who are abrupt, abrasive and lacking in social etiquette.

I agree to some extent but again, I think people have to learn to behave themselves. And I think if we focus on behaviour (and whether or not it´s acceptable) rather than on the person, the issue becomes easier to manage.

Maybe this seems too nannyish for boards, but I think this kind of approach could possibly improve the general experience for most users, so maybe it should be considered.

TheFisherKing

Earthhorse's post was excellent and covered most of what needed to be said.

However, I would just like to add that I feel, were the following rule applied more often on Boards, then much of what constitutes as bullying would be prevented from ever occurring in the first place:

Attack the post, never the poster. In other words, don't make it personal. If you wish to debate a topic or rebut a statement, insulting any boards.ie user will only get you in trouble. You are free to have a go a their argument. You are not free to have a go at them.

I get that sometimes people drag their own personal lives onto threads by discussing details of their personal experiences and use their own experiences as examples and so a degree of moderator discretion is needed whenever posts are reported by users as being personal abusive in nature but in general users don't tend to do that and so feel the rule should be applied far more than it currently is.

Otherwise, the message is sent out that a certain amount of attacking the poster rather than the post is allowed and so sets the tone for a forum in which bullying will undoubtedly thrive. It of course also leaves the aggrieved poster feeling that they must retaliate on-thread as they are getting no justice via the channels that they are told they should whenever they find themselves on the end of what they feel is an unwarranted personal attack.

I recall one very young lad who used to have quite strong (and unpopular) political views posting on Boards. He also was about as sound a chap as you could wish to speak with. He debated in those political threads with great gusto and gave just as good as he got but quite often, users that took a dislike to him for those political views, would have a pop at him on other threads around Boards. "Oh, so says the guy who approves of x, y and z" etc. I reported a few of those posts, some of which were personally abusive but nothing was done that I could see and it continued until eventually he closed his account and moved on, which was a shame as he was no troll and every word his posted, he did so with passion and I say that as someone who didn't agree with his political views.

I think Boards.ie should be a place where someone should feel at ease with posting their opinions without fear of personal attack. It adds nothing to a debate and I don't care if someone supports suicide bombing or the dropping of the atomic bomb, abusing them achieves zero. I'm not saying that an aggressive reply isn't in order, but just that name calling, insults or comments implying personal inadequacies and/or personal issues in RL will only lead to the possibility of an equally personally abusive retort and tbh, to me the user that first resorts to that level of discussion is quite often the one with the least to say on the issue and is usually just in the debate for thanks whoring purposes (and unfortunately, it quite often pays off for them).

Brendan Flowers

All the talk so far seems to be about people bullying other Boards members. But what the online bullying of "celebs"? In particular there is a few Irish celebrities that get a serious amount of abuse here. Do the same people here that are against bullying other members think its ok to do it to famous people?

LoLth

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

All the talk so far seems to be about people bullying other Boards members. But what the online bullying of "celebs"? In particular there is a few Irish celebrities that get a serious amount of abuse here.

I'm not sure abuse directed at a celebrity can be classed as bullying. Unless the celebrity is actually/virtually there and posting and being abused or harrassed for doing so, in which case their celebrity status makes no difference, it becomes a boards.ie user bullying/abusing another boards.ie user.

Do the same people here that are against bullying other members think its ok to do it to famous people?

if they are the same thing then I think it stands to reason that , no, they dont think its ok. Are the two issues the same? (I dont think so but I'm open to correction)

If they are not the same issue then this question is not really relevant to a thread on bullying. It would be like me asking for opinions on soccer on a thread discussing the recently announced Rugby World Cup groups.

Earthhorse

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

All the talk so far seems to be about people bullying other Boards members. But what the online bullying of "celebs"? In particular there is a few Irish celebrities that get a serious amount of abuse here. Do the same people here that are against bullying other members think its ok to do it to famous people?

My short answer to this is, no, it's not okay to do this to famous people either, but that the kind of behaviour I suspect you're thinking of isn't really what's being discussed in this thread. It's a separate issue altogether.

Tragedy

I read an article recently on bullying in third level education. I won't bore people but tl;dr, inclusion/exclusion appears to be what most people who considered themselves to have been bullied cited as being the method used. Excluding people from groups is an incredibly powerful social tool, and something which (IME and in those around me) happens frequently on Boards.

Cliques are natural, but when they lead to exclusion (whether deliberate or accidental) they lead to people feeling...well.. bullied, ostracised, shunned.

As an aside, the proliferation of private forums has been a pox on boards. Whether broad private social forums, or private forums specifically for a public board, these are excluding any number of users (or members, hi Kharn!).

username123

Tragedy wrote: »

As an aside, the proliferation of private forums has been a pox on boards. Whether broad private social forums, or private forums specifically for a public board, these are excluding any number of users (or members, hi Kharn!).

I didnt even know there were private forums on boards? What is the purpose of that?

Markbrie

From reading all the posts on this topic it seems that there is no clear common definition as to what constitutes bullying on this site, This is not surprising as bullying is quite a subjective thing and is at the end of the day how someone is left feeling as a result of someone elses actions. With this in mind I feel it is the mods responsibility to set the tone/example, I say this only because I saw some posts from a mod who was openly taunting someone earlier today, But all in all a lot of sense being spoken here on this topic.

Tombi!

username123 wrote: »

I didnt even know there were private forums on boards? What is the purpose of that?

Well one is the sexuality forum which you need to be a subscriber to see (or a mod I think).
Another is soccer (which it's soccer so you can understand) because of the fact that soccer fans can get a bit... emotional about fans of opposing teams.
I think there's a grammar forum that's dedicated to picking out mistakes in other people's grammar. And people might get upset at that so it's also private.

Madam_X

Speaking of bullying: That locked thread here on Feedback about the person posting vile sectarian remarks is really disappointing. Out and out ganging up and ridiculing (i.e. bullying) of a person who is making a reasonable point.
The issue is not the person being unionist (completely disingenuous to say that's what's deemed the problem) but sectarian and bigoted. So what if they're the mod of another forum? They're a mod - and visibly so; therefore they should comply with a particular standard. And not being a mod in the forums they don't mod should not be taken advantage of.

wasam0d

Mods get bullied too and it's not just that thread.

Often posters/users/members take a dislike and can be a pest on the forums they mod making it impossible for them to contribute as a poster or to function as a mod as the poster will try and paint it as if the mod has the issue when it's them. But it's not called bullying or pointed out as that when it is. It is esp clear when they are a repeat offender on the cluster of forums which the mod happens to mod, back after a 3/6/12 month ban and they take a pop.


That is the behavior of bullies. They like to demean, belittle and drag people down. work to make the forum or indeed the site so hostile and the person so raw that they have to walk away.

Sometimes, people aren't even aware of what they are doing is bullying behavior. 'I only said...' 'but you made me so angry' esp when you are the one pointing out things they don't want to hear or they have mismanaged or mishandled or ignored your warnings about.

That is the stuff which is harder to take then the generic obscene tirades of trolls.

The site is now bigger then ever and I doubt there are any more supports for mods when when I was one and ended up being a support for others but there is only so much any person can take. With the user base ratio to mod ratio being so huge even with there being what 500 mods now, that just makes it harder for mods to communicate and for them to let each other know what they should not have to put up with, from users, fellow mods or even admins.


Cos really it takes so few to poison the well, to try and push you out of the herd and then your seen as trouble and you may as well quit cos it's just not worth it.

Boards.ie has needed a clear cut, spelled policy on bullying for years.
There needs to be a clear path on who to make a complaint to, it's all well and good saying contact any mod, some of them mod small hassle free forums, don't check the mods forum and may not have banned anyone in over a year. So they won't know what to do or how to get a poster help.

There needs to be policy, and procedure and for it to be easily found on the site and used. Being a dick doesn't cover it any more, it's a phrase which most don't/won't get. The user base is too big to play forward the culture which there was on boards and unless adjustments are made pockets will create it's own which are too out of step with the site as a whole and then it's pokergate all over again, in which one forum tried to bully another.

Those who are being bullied are under attack and often in the most insidious ways so they can find it hard believe what is happening to them and so it is harder for them to reach out. Make it stupid simple, and drawn a line that bullying behavior will not be tolerated.

Sometimes it is intentional, when it's not afford the person who has over stepped the mark to learn from it, if possible with out stigma but crack down on the arseholes and the waltermittys who have made a misery of people's lives. Esp when that sort end up in private forums.

Rules/guidlines should be put in place for private forums, if the Hmods don't have the balls/spine to cut out the cancer in their little groups midst then they shouldn't have 'control' of the forum.

Once upon a time this site was small enough that the people you knew, knew people who knew people and that was the whole site. These days due to numbers and the diversity of the site that is just not possible. Long gone are the days when you can take people at face value which is a shame, which is made even more so by people treating accounts as disposable.

Devore got what he wanted, what he envisioned in that exchange with Cloud, a forum for everyone to talk/chat/discuss monsters daddy is right.
The site is to big to be stopped at this stage (bar a court ordered take down) but the more good people who get burnt, driven away or feel unsupported then the place will go like bebo.


TL;DR

Policy & procedures for all, make them stupid simple or the site will keep loosing good people.

P.S. the welcome note for new accounts mentions to the now defunct boards wiki, it really should be removed.

looksee

Originally Posted by looksee

There is a tendency in some of the tecky forums for people to try and blind you with science and then get shirty if you ask for an explanation. That's just ignorance on their part, but if that is the way they want to run the forum and the mod approves, then so be it.

Originally posted by nompere
I've taken this out of a longer post, because I think it's a very important point. The first part of the final sentence is fine - it is indeed ignorance - but I think the second part is plain wrong.

It might be a technical forum, but it is a public part of the site, and neither the posters who want to run a thing their way, nor the mods who condone it, have a right to exclude other posters. A mod who allows such behaviour needs censuring, and needs reminding that any poster is entitled to simple courtesy when asking a question.

I see what nompere is saying here and to some extent I agree with him. However it is arguable that people should be able to have technical discussions without people who don't know anything about the subject looking for a response to a question that is so basic it is off the bottom of the scale for a technical question. How you do this without being dismissive I am not sure.