Towing horse box with a car?

dave66

Hi,

My daughter who has been riding for some years now, got a 14.2 connemara cross last June. She has been attending some competitions and recently went to two in Boswell. So far she has been lucky in that she was able to "hitch" a lift with somebody else going to boswell and taking their own box.

She keeps the pony in a yard near Killegar/Glencullen (Dublin/Wicklow border) and the yard owner has now made a box available to anyone in the yard to use. As far as I can recall it's a "Hunter", has two axels and takes two horses/ponies side by side.

I hold an Irish B and EB licence so legally I'm permitted to drive a vehicle towing a horse box.

The big issue is I drive a 2001 Ford Mondeo Hatchback 1.8L as far as I know the towing capacity of the car is 1500Kg. I'm guessing that the trailer is probably about 900Kg plus about 500kg for the pony, so it's probably close to the towing capability of the car.

Before I go down the route of fitting a towbar to my car, which I gather is not all that cheap, I'd really appreciate it if anyone can tell me if it legal to tow a horse box with a car that has a split rear axle (like most front wheel drives) or do you have to have a 4x4?

I've seen a number of boxes being pulled by Mondeos at recent shows, but as I've tried to explain to my 16 year old, just because people do it doesn't make it legal. I'm actually surprised by the number of boxes I see being pulled which have a different reg plate to the car/4x4 towing it :eek:

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

charlieIRL

I personally wouldn't pull a horsebox with a car, its just too heavy.

I only carry two 12.2 ponies in my box and pull it with a Nissan Xtrail and once in 3 years towing a lad pulled straight out in front of me - there is no way a car would be able to stop in the short space that was needed that day.

Also its very hard get a car out of a wet field with a box & pony / horse!

Imhof Tank

Not illegal to tow with a car, but you are very close to the maximum payload there. If this will be a regular thing, then you should probably be looking at a jeep - not necessarily a 4x 4, but something with a greater towing capacity that your Mondeo. I think the early Nissan X Trail 2wd was about 2200kgs or in that region?

paddi22

i wouldn't risk it. The trouble isn't pulling the box, it's stopping it when you need to. A box on a car like that would be very risky. A friend had a car similar to that and found the car wasn't strong enough to hold back the box when she needed to brake suddenly, she would always coast a bit further than expected, especially down hill. And as another poster said, she had a lot of issues on wet, muddy ground at shows. Plus after a few months her car was destroyed, i can't remeber if it was a clutch, break or engine issue though. She sold her car and got a kia 4x4 and has no issues now

dave66

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

Stopping ability seems to be a common concern and makes a lot of sense. I've also looked at costs of adding tow bar to mondeo and seems prices are around €280-340, which I'd probably be better off putting towards changing the car for an old "jeep" of some sort. Ideally, if I had the money, I'd even look at buying an old jeep perhaps old commercial vehicle and just use it for pulling the box from time to time.

Thanks again.

Dave

Gurgle

Don't all trailers over a certain net weight have their own brakes (activated by pressure on the towing bar)?

fits

^ They do.

OP, I actually think you'd be ok with one pony in the box, but you'd have to take it easy, and I dont believe its strictly legal, but not enforced here at all. Legally, the dgvw of the trailer (about 2 tons for 505) should be less than the max towing capacity of the towcar.

If its the only the odd journey, Id stick with the mondeo and get the towbar put on.

finbarrk

Seeing as its only a pony there shouldn't be any problem in using the Mondeo. Stick on a towbar and socket. Take your time driving. You'll be fine. No point in splashing out money for a 4x4. That's if you don't have the money.

silverfox88

Hi Dave! One of the liveries from your yard here! Really wouldnt advise pulling with a car,especially given the location of the yard. My jeep is a 2 litre diesel and Ive really struggled up that hill. Even with only one horse in the box I find I have to take a serious run at that hill, and have had some very hairy moments when Ive come up against another car as there is no room for two to pass and when you have to stop on the hill to let them go and then try to take off again Ive had serious problems getting going again. Just had the gearbox and clutch replaced as well A friend of mine as well used to pull with a 1.8 Passat and hit a patch of diesel and lost control, this is where the jeep comes in ahead of a car again - its not so much the towing capability its the braking - the brakes werent strong enough with the weight of the box and the momentum of the box keeps pushing the car so your control is reduced significantly. I find towing to be a stressful enough experience and Im now even considering looking into something with a bigger engine, probably up around a 2.5 litre. Pulling weight that is so close to the car's maximum load is a bit dodgy. As far as I'm aware (although this is largely hearsay!) it is actually illegal to pull with a car, but im not 100% on that!!

Also the weight of a 505 is about 1200 kg, and Id imagine your daughters pony is around 400 kg!

stargirl!

would suggest getting a single box if going to tow with a car, really notice the difference when going up a hill with it!!

treccie

stargirl! wrote: »

would suggest getting a single box if going to tow with a car, really notice the difference when going up a hill with it!!

Single boxes freak me out, they're so unstable. Mare and foal box is much better.

stargirl!

treccie wrote: »

Single boxes freak me out, they're so unstable. Mare and foal box is much better.

i think once you're driving with a horsebox you should be careful enough that regardless of if it were single or double you would be pretty safe! if conditions are so bad you wouldnt feel safe pulling a single box you probably shouldnt be driving a box at all on that day!

To a lot of people they wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a single or mare and foal, a few places are actually trying to pass off 401's as mare and foal boxes to people who wouldnt know any better. and getting away with it.

I realise the op said that he does have the EB licence but the single is a great way to tow with a car without needing EB as its so light.

fits

You still need an eb for a single box.

stargirl!

fits wrote: »

You still need an eb for a single box.

if the max gross weight of the box weighs less than the unladen weight of the car , and the two weights combined weigh less than 3500, you dont need an eb.
the max gross weight of the 401 is 1600, the unladen weight of my car is 1820, combined is 3420, therefore dont need an eb, have checked this out at the garda station to be sure and all fine.

dave66

stargirl! wrote: »

would suggest getting a single box if going to tow with a car, really notice the difference when going up a hill with it!!

Thanks, that's not really an option. I have access to a double box and that's perfect as I cannot afford to buy a box. At this point I'm leaning towards selling my car and getting a 2nd hand 4x4 sometime next year.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

fits

stargirl! wrote: »

if the max gross weight of the box weighs less than the unladen weight of the car , and the two weights combined weigh less than 3500, you dont need an eb.
the max gross weight of the 401 is 1600, the unladen weight of my car is 1820, combined is 3420, therefore dont need an eb, have checked this out at the garda station to be sure and all fine.

Afaik If dgvw weight of trailer is greater than 750kg you need an EB.

The gardai might not be the best people to know. Contact the RSA, they will know.

fits

Oh found this on RSA website. Changes coming in

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/Cars-and-Trailers/

What are the changes to the licensing rules for B and EB licence categories from 19 January 2013?

From that date a person who gets a category B driving licence for the first time can only tow a trailer where the MAM of the trailer is not greater than 750kg and the MAM of the vehicle and trailer does not exceed 4250kg.

From that date a person taking out a first EB (BE as it will then be known) licence can only draw a trailer whose MAM is no greater than 3,500kg.

These changes will not apply to people who hold a B or BE driving licence issued before the 19 January 2013.

stargirl!

fits wrote: »

Afaik If dgvw weight of trailer is greater than 750kg you need an EB.

The gardai might not be the best people to know. Contact the RSA, they will know.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

see the o2 trailers with a b licence, called them to confirm exactly what it means, who advised to call garda traffic corps in dublin castle, they confirmed it as ok.

Odelay

stargirl! wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

see the o2 trailers with a b licence, called them to confirm exactly what it means, who advised to call garda traffic corps in dublin castle, they confirmed it as ok.

There is a lot of miss-information about towing, be very careful about what you read. There is a good post somewhere on motors that explains it all, I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I can find it.

dave66

The whole "can I tow with my mondeo" question became moot on Christmas Eve, when somebody ran into the back of the car doing €3000 worth of damage, so the car has been written off and taken away.

I guess every cloud has a silver lining, we just put a deposit on a 4x4. Nothing fancy as we were in a really tight budget, but got a Freelander TD4 (2L Diesel) it'll be good enough to handle smallish box and daughter's little 14.2 pony.

charlieIRL

sorry to hear of the crash, at least nobody was hurt is the main thing.

dave66

charlieIRL wrote: »

sorry to hear of the crash, at least nobody was hurt is the main thing.

Yes, the fact there was nobody hurt was the most important thing. Driver who hit me was very upset but as I said to her "Once people are fine, the rest if metal and that's what we pay insurance for"

Just waiting for the insurance cheque to arrive, hoping to have it tomorrow.

maesdavid

iv an audi a6 2.5 tdi quattro can i tow whats the limit
can i tow a horse box

fits

^ look specs up on parkers.co.uk. They have towing limits on there.

dave66

maesdavid wrote: »

iv an audi a6 2.5 tdi quattro can i tow whats the limit
can i tow a horse box

You need to check the specifications for the year and model of your car, this should be in the owner's manual or on the manufacturers site.

One thing to bear in mind, for safety etc, there's an unwritten rule that it's best to keep your trailer weight at or under the 80% max tow capacit. So IF you car is rated for 2000kg the max weight of the trailer shouldn't really be higher than 1600kg.

You also need to have the appropriate class on your driving licence.

isaos

QUOTE=stargirl!;82191429]i

To a lot of people they wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a single or mare and foal, a few places are actually trying to pass off 401's as mare and foal boxes to people who wouldnt know any better. and getting away with it.

I realise the op said that he does have the EB licence but the single is a great way to tow with a car without needing EB as its so light.[/QUOTE]

Hello! You are absolutely right about that, I called a guy the other day re a 401, answer: Mare & Foal. Thankfully I checked before going any further.
Singles are quite unstable, especially with high winds, bumpy roads and a horse that would be moving inside. Car with single is fine until something goes wrong... I really would advise a 4x4, even a small Freelander that can be found quite cheap now days.