I have a Wii U - General Discussion.

budgemook

sligeach wrote: »

You should really finish A Link To The Past too. Amazing game.

Honestly I can't see myself going back to a SNES game at this point, VC or not.

pasta-solo

budgemook wrote: »

Honestly I can't see myself going back to a SNES game at this point, VC or not.

Is it a graphics issue? Because A Link To The Past genuinely holds up far better than even the HD version of Twilight Princess. 2D graphics have aged a lot better than you might think, early 3D often looks pretty bad in comparison.

maddymcmaddser

pasta-solo wrote: »

Is it a graphics issue? Because A Link To The Past genuinely holds up fast better than even the HD version of Twilight Princess. 2D graphics have aged a lot better than you might think, early 3D often looks pretty bad in comparison.

I second this, I've played every Zelda game and A Link to the Past is still my favourite! I would urge anyone with any interest in Zelda games to play it.

Wind Waker HD is an incredible game as well, I only recently replayed it, I've just started Twilight Princess HD, I haven't played throught it since I bought it at launch with the Wii so there's quite a lot I'd forgotten about it. I'm enjoying it so for.

For playing through them on the WiiU I'd recommend you get a pro controller as well, I much preferred using that to the gamepad!

budgemook

pasta-solo wrote: »

Is it a graphics issue? Because A Link To The Past genuinely holds up fast better than even the HD version of Twilight Princess. 2D graphics have aged a lot better than you might think, early 3D often looks pretty bad in comparison.

Graphics, sound, widescreen etc. It kinda seems to me to be like going back to the original GTA games after playing the new ones.

sweetie

budgemook wrote: »

Graphics, sound, widescreen etc. It kinda seems to me to be like going back to the original GTA games after playing the new ones.

Wow, some of the best games I've played in recent years were ALTTP and Super Metroid on the Wii U VC. Conversely, I tried the reissue of GTA san Andreas and it was pretty hard to take the graphics.

budgemook

sweetie wrote: »

Wow, some of the best games I've played in recent years were ALTTP and Super Metroid on the Wii U VC. Conversely, I tried the reissue of GTA san Andreas and it was pretty hard to take the graphics.

Fair enough, o each their own. I played plenty of super metroid btw and couldn't see myself going back to it.

I was talking about the old old GTA games where you have the birds eye view btw.

CiDeRmAn

budgemook wrote: »

Graphics, sound, widescreen etc. It kinda seems to me to be like going back to the original GTA games after playing the new ones.

This is a common position.
As modern games become better and better at displaying 3D graphics, with ever higher polygon counts, effects and all else that makes the likes of GTA V on the PS4/XB1 look so good, the improvements over the past two decades of hardware development in 2D visuals has been pretty static.
Not due to a lack of investment, but because it was perfected, and this is easily seen in a few examples
The Last Blade 2 on the NeoGeo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy5o3_UGkQQ

Super Metroid on the Snes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RHV8bud6fE

Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hjG6MCcZ8

Sonic 2 on the Megadrive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmdseeZBiz4

Super Mario World on the Snes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbvljIUTP0

And, one of my favourites
Kirby's Dreamland 3 on the Snes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djamgcRUuj4

Now, more recently we have seen an upsurgence in 2D games, with a classic game style, the brilliant Shovel Knight for example. Also we have had Ubisoft revitalise the Rayman franchise with the decidedly 2D Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends titles, as well as using that Ubiart engine to make the moving Valiant Hearts: The Great War

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NCU-1Dxd4

So, the 2D format has lots of life left in it, and some of its most enduring examples are to found on games that were released over 20 years ago.

sligeach

budgemook wrote: »

Fair enough, o each their own. I played plenty of super metroid btw and couldn't see myself going back to it.

I was talking about the old old GTA games where you have the birds eye view btw.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Let's not be saying things we can't take back. That is blasphemy. Super Metroid is the greatest game ever made. Period!


I think SNES games have held up really well. It's the generation before and after that haven't stood the test of time.

UberPrinny_Baal

sligeach wrote: »

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Let's not be saying things we can't take back. That is blasphemy. Super Metroid is the greatest game ever made. Period!


I think SNES games have held up really well. It's the generation before and after that haven't stood the test of time.

To devil's advocate on behalf of this fellow, it doesn't necessarily matter if something is "The Greatest Game ever made" in a particular genre; if you yourself don't enjoy that genre.

I mean, I can pretty confidently say that Nintendogs is (or at least was) "the best" in the genre of virtual pet simulators, and if you liked that kind of game, this was a definite must-buy for you.

Since I personally don't like the pet simulator genre, it doesn't really matter how amazing a game in that style is, it just won't appeal to me.

I can totally understand why somebody might not like Super Metroid. IIRC the game can be a bit obtuse in what you need to do next, and if you're not already very familiar with it, it can lead to a point in the game where you're going room by room and shooting/morph-ball bombing every visible tile to try to figure out where to go next.

While I never beat Super Metroid (I got lost and stuck lol), I did beat Zero Mission, Prime and the first 2 DS Castlevanias; so I know I definitely like the Metriovania genre, and have always meant to go back and beat Super.

CiDeRmAn

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

To devil's advocate on behalf of this fellow, it doesn't necessarily matter if something is "The Greatest Game ever made" in a particular genre; if you yourself don't enjoy that genre.

But 2D games are hardly a "genre"
A genre is RPG, RTS, FPS, Platformer, Racing game and so on.
If a game is presented in 2D sprites, 3D visuals, or some combination of the two is not a matter of genre.
If you discount 2D games as a whole because of how they look it's a quick way of limiting your gaming palette as you remove masses of objectively great games from your possibilities of play, and that's a big mistake.
Better to take it game by game, deciding on a basis of trying them out to decide if it's for you or not.

And, about being stuck in Super Metroid, that was what the big box manual was for. It provided hints and clues as you played through.
Worth downloading a pdf of it and flicking through it if stuck.
Plus, there's no shame, at this remove, to take a peek at an FAQ now and again, if completely stuck.

budgemook

Hey I liked Super Metroid, I just don't see myself ever playing it again. IMO Super Mariokart was a better SNES game though

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

This is a common position.
As modern games become better and better at displaying 3D graphics, with ever higher polygon counts, effects and all else that makes the likes of GTA V on the PS4/XB1 look so good, the improvements over the past two decades of hardware development in 2D visuals has been pretty static.
Not due to a lack of investment, but because it was perfected, and this is easily seen in a few examples
The Last Blade 2 on the NeoGeo
<snip>
Super Metroid on the Snes
<snip>
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
<snip>
Sonic 2 on the Megadrive
<snip>
Super Mario World on the Snes
<snip>
And, one of my favourites
Kirby's Dreamland 3 on the Snes
<snip>


Now, more recently we have seen an upsurgence in 2D games, with a classic game style, the brilliant Shovel Knight for example. Also we have had Ubisoft revitalise the Rayman franchise with the decidedly 2D Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends titles, as well as using that Ubiart engine to make the moving Valiant Hearts: The Great War
<snip>

So, the 2D format has lots of life left in it, and some of its most enduring examples are to found on games that were released over 20 years ago.

I don't have a problem with 2D games. On the Wii U I've really been enjoying Donkey Kong and New Super Mario Bros (they count as 2D, right?). I have limited time to play computer games (I know I posted that the time available to me has increased but it is still limited) and tbh an hour or two per day is plenty for me so I want to use that time to play new games on new consoles. Zelda was a glaring omission from my gaming history, especially as I used to play computer games a lot more, so it's great that I can now play modernised versions of a couple of Zelda games I missed out on.

Thanks for the links btw, man I loved Sonic and Super Mario World

elekid

Although I would agree they are two of the best games ever made, I can understand not being as wowed by LttP and Super Metroid these days, especially without any nostalgia for them or the Snes in general. I've never really enjoyed trying Nes games as I started with the Snes, and I'm not someone who needs modern graphics to enjoy something at all.

Playing Fire Emblem Fates Birthright at the moment and while the battle graphics are good, they are nowhere close to the amazing animation from the GBA FE games. I think that kind of 2D pixel art ages much better than 3D stuff.

As for the Wii U, I've played so many great games on it but Colour Splash seems to be the final game on it for me, even though NX is still unannounced.

UberPrinny_Baal

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

But 2D games are hardly a "genre"
A genre is RPG, RTS, FPS, Platformer, Racing game and so on.
If a game is presented in 2D sprites, 3D visuals, or some combination of the two is not a matter of genre.
If you discount 2D games as a whole because of how they look it's a quick way of limiting your gaming palette as you remove masses of objectively great games from your possibilities of play, and that's a big mistake.
Better to take it game by game, deciding on a basis of trying them out to decide if it's for you or not.

And, about being stuck in Super Metroid, that was what the big box manual was for. It provided hints and clues as you played through.
Worth downloading a pdf of it and flicking through it if stuck.
Plus, there's no shame, at this remove, to take a peek at an FAQ now and again, if completely stuck.

I'm not arguing that 2D is a genre, so I'm not really going to reply to the bulk of your post. If Metroid being 2D was the reason OP didn't want to play it, than I misunderstood his reasoning on this.

I defintely don't agree with it, but I can understand it. We might be disgusted by the way of thinking now, but I know around the time gaming was moving from 2D to 3D, "still being 2D" was a huge mark against some games. Castlevania Symphony of the Night, generally regarded as one of the best games ever, was famously marked down in reviews for this very reason.

I was mostly just replying to Sligeach to say it was absolutely reasonable to not like Super Metroid.

Also, personally, I don't like consulting FAQs in games. Much like Sligeach assigns blasphemy to throwing away original boxes/manuals and not liking Super Metroid, I similarily cry blasphemy for using FAQs to beat games (and cry "SUPER BLASPHEMY" for using FAQs to beat Zelda games).

I would need to be incredibly frustrated with a game to consult a FAQ, so more often than not I think "I'll come back to this later" and then never do.

elekid wrote: »

Although I would agree they are two of the best games ever made, I can understand not being as wowed by LttP and Super Metroid these days, especially without any nostalgia for them or the Snes in general. I've never really enjoyed trying Nes games as I started with the Snes, and I'm not someone who needs modern graphics to enjoy something at all.

Playing Fire Emblem Fates Birthright at the moment and while the battle graphics are good, they are nowhere close to the amazing animation from the GBA FE games. I think that kind of 2D pixel art ages much better than 3D stuff.

As for the Wii U, I've played so many great games on it but Colour Splash seems to be the final game on it for me, even though NX is still unannounced.

Definitely agree that the GBA FE games had amazing sprites.

You're getting off lucky by comparing them to the 3DS FE games. That's a real "These are both totally fine but I prefer the pixel art" kind of comparison.

Look up the graphics/animation for the DS game "Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon" and shriek in horror and the completely unstylised dark faceless shambling 3D horrors.

It might be one of the only games that me and all my friends (all huge FE fanboys who don't care about graphics) refused to play due to sheer ugliness.

budgemook

I never said anything about not wanting to play 2D games.

elekid

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Look up the graphics/animation for the DS game "Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon" and shriek in horror and the completely unstylised dark faceless shambling 3D horrors.

I've played Shadow Dragon, it was ugly but that didn't bother me so much as the basic gameplay, relatively boring characters and the lack of features found in the newer games like support conversations. I still enjoyed it as a kind of Fire Emblem history lesson

budgemook

Enjoying Wind Waker so far anyway. Just completed the (first?) Forsaken Fortress level. The gameplay is good and the story seems fun so far. It looks like it will be challenging and I'm fairly certain that there is loads of stuff that I missed in the level so replay value must be great.

Happy with my purchase so far!

Mr.Saturn

budgemook wrote: »

Enjoying Wind Waker so far anyway. Just completed the (first?) Forsaken Fortress level. The gameplay is good and the story seems fun so far. It looks like it will be challenging and I'm fairly certain that there is loads of stuff that I missed in the level so replay value must be great.

Happy with my purchase so far!

It's a stock phrase at this stage, but I do envy those that are playing Wind Waker for the first time. Second you pop on that boat and hear the ocean theme makes it feel like the world is absolutely massive.

Xofpod

I'm playing Windwaker with my kids as their first Zelda game. They're loving it.

Rhyme

Xofpod wrote: »

I'm playing Windwaker with my kids as their first Zelda game. They're loving it.

I hope you played around with the pigs

Star Lord

How could you not?

And playing a game of "Lose the snot-faced little brat!" and trying to lose him as quickly as possible as you run across the island!

Ol' Donie

Or are you just looking around and listening to the music?

Banjo

Xofpod wrote: »

I'm playing Windwaker with my kids as their first Zelda game. They're loving it.

How do you keep them from killing eachother when it's not their turn? How do you define turns? I'm interested to give this a go with mine. I have the 3 year old placated with a classic controller plugged into nothing but the other two need a little more...

And how can you stand watching them do it wrong without jumping in?

Star Lord

I remember when "Life about" was the old way, rewarded skill, while frustrating those watching someone that was good...

Pac1Man

Banjo wrote: »

How do you keep them from killing eachother when it's not their turn? How do you define turns? I'm interested to give this a go with mine.

For the purpose of comedy, I chose to stop reading after this part and instead imagined adult Banjo sulking while small Banjo hogs the controller.

Xofpod

Beating the head off each other is character building...

Xofpod

Windwaker is cartoonish enough to keep the younger one interested while the older is playing.
Things get heated with Mario though.

abbir

elekid wrote: »

Although I would agree they are two of the best games ever made, I can understand not being as wowed by LttP and Super Metroid these days, especially without any nostalgia for them or the Snes in general. I've never really enjoyed trying Nes games as I started with the Snes, and I'm not someone who needs modern graphics to enjoy something at all.

I played NES games when they originally came out so have plenty of nostalgia for them, however, I don't like playing (most of) them now - even the games I remember as a kid loving. It's not just the graphics, they were missing some modern extra polish and they still had a lot of arcade style attitudes to things like fairness. The only NES games I'll play are the Super Mario ones and while I love the Zelda series, I don't want to replay its NES titles. SNES games I will go back to quite a bit and a lot of them hold up very well today especially the four of Super Mario World (1&2), Super Metroid and A Link to the Past.

elekid

I agree, it's mechanics more than graphics. I've played Zelda 1 and Metroid 1 on the Nes and felt I had to put in a lot of extra effort and be very forgiving to enjoy them, whereas the Snes versions are much smoother experiences. I still find Zelda 2 unplayable, the only main series Zelda I haven't finished

CiDeRmAn

I have it on the NES, I really don't enjoy it at all.
Hardly surprising then that LttP took it's queues from the original rather than the second title.
Similarities then with the Super Mario Bros series, with Super Mario Bros 2/USA being a different game from the rest of the series entirely, reskinned DokiDoki Panic, and everything was just off. The Super Mario Bros 3 came along and made it all ok again.

Ol' Donie

Never actually played the original Zelda for more than 30 seconds.

Hmm. I wouldn't be great with the old patience, should I give it a go?