The Cost - PC vs Console Gaming?

-( i )- Wicker

gizmo wrote: »

Right now based on the leaked specs? I'd say around a grand minimum to be sure, it's too early to say for certain though. I certainly wouldn't be looking at building a new gaming rig now if I wanted it to last for more than two years with an upgrade path. As it happens, E3 will be hitting around the same time as Intel release their new architecture next year so we'll get a much clearer picture then.

Based on the specs above (Radeon HD7770, AMD A8-3850, 8GB RAM) you could easily build that for <€500, it would be considered a low-end gaming rig by today's standards. However the consoles performance should be much better optimized for its purpose than an equivalent PC.

NTMK

danthefan wrote: »

Just on the RAM of the next-gen consoles, from what I've read it's very unlikely to ship with 8GB. They give the dev kits more RAM for whatever reason. The PS3 only has 256 MB RAM for example.

The dev kit for the next xbox has 12+gb of ram and Devs are demanding 8gb ram and ram has never been cheaper so it would be immensly stupid not to put 8 in both consoles

gizmo

-( i )- Wicker wrote: »

Based on the specs above (Radeon HD7770, AMD A8-3850, 8GB RAM) you could easily build that for <€500, it would be considered a low-end gaming rig by today's standards. However the consoles performance should be much better optimized for its purpose than an equivalent PC.

I'll eat my god damn hat if the PS4 ships with anything resembling that A8 chip and GPU.


EDIT: As a matter of reference, that GPU (when paired with a i7-3960X and 16GB RAM) manages ~36fps @ 1920x1200 w/ High settings on Batman: AC and that's Unreal Engine 3 based. Now, look at the difference between Unreal 3 and 4.

NTMK

gizmo wrote: »

I'll eat my god damn hat if the PS4 ships with anything resembling that A8 chip and GPU.


EDIT: As a matter of reference, that GPU (when paired with a i7-3960X and 16GB RAM) manages ~36fps @ 1920x1200 w/ High settings on Batman: AC and that's Unreal Engine 3 based. Now, look at the difference between Unreal 3 and 4.

what ive listed is prob what devs are working with atm by the time the next gen arrives

i expect those specs to be 8 series GPU's which should be close enough to 7870 performance and the A8 generations equivalent also the integrated gpu can be crossfired with an discrete GPU so it could be very powerful and still meet the thermal requirements for a console

Its hard to say both sony and MS changed their dev kits during the 360/ps3 development (MS revised the gpu spec by 2 generations)

Unreal 4 is probably a year away lots of time to optimise it especially with fixed hardware

ShadowHearth

at the moment ram is cheap. very very cheap so seeing 12gb ram does not mean much. its a very good sign, but still, it can be useless if the rest of the system is lacking.

on pc having more then 4gb for gaming is a waste. even if you do got 16gb of ram, it would give no benefit at all. the only reason we stack up so much ram,because it is cheap, very very cheap. Lets hope that 32bit wont be stoping pc gaming anymore, so we can benefit from extra ram.

i am really interested to see what is the whole new gen of consoles will offers us. hopefully next year we will see some news.

SeantheMan

ShadowHearth wrote: »

on pc having more then 4gb for gaming is a waste. even if you do got 16gb of ram, it would give no benefit at all. the only reason we stack up so much ram,because it is cheap, very very cheap. Lets hope that 32bit wont be stoping pc gaming anymore, so we can benefit from extra ram.

.

I think you need over 4gb these days in fairness. Some games are super hogs for memory, add STEAM and a few other programs running. 4gb should be "minimum" at this stage for any gaming PC.

Off topic - but this is an excellent analogy of how RAM works, very interesting I thought. It's put into simple terms so anyone can understand.


http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/13vdn6/eli5_what_exactly_is_so_great_about_64_bit/c77i2du

Antar Bolaeisk

ShadowHearth wrote: »

at the moment ram is cheap. very very cheap so seeing 12gb ram does not mean much. its a very good sign, but still, it can be useless if the rest of the system is lacking.

on pc having more then 4gb for gaming is a waste. even if you do got 16gb of ram, it would give no benefit at all. the only reason we stack up so much ram,because it is cheap, very very cheap. Lets hope that 32bit wont be stoping pc gaming anymore, so we can benefit from extra ram.

i am really interested to see what is the whole new gen of consoles will offers us. hopefully next year we will see some news.

I frequently use over 3GB and sometimes over 4GB. Probably not so much for gaming but most web browsers are real memory hogs, particularly when you open more than one tab. I'd argue that 4GB should be the absolute minimum these days with 8GB recommended.

Overheal

It was a 5 year creep from 2gb to 4gb, I would say 6gb as a minimum. 8 is just more sensible in the long run.

gizmo

NTMK wrote: »

what ive listed is prob what devs are working with atm by the time the next gen arrives

i expect those specs to be 8 series GPU's which should be close enough to 7870 performance and the A8 generations equivalent also the integrated gpu can be crossfired with an discrete GPU so it could be very powerful and still meet the thermal requirements for a console

I've seen a few rumours that the current kits are based around A10-series chips but I still find that hard to believe based on the performance profiles from current gen games. I'm not saying they're not, I'm just saying it'd be a ****ing tragedy if they resembled something close to final hardware.

NTMK wrote: »

Unreal 4 is probably a year away lots of time to optimise it especially with fixed hardware

Well Fortnite, the first UE4-powered game is due out next year from Epic and it being built from the ground up for the PC should be a good indication of what to expect.

Overheal wrote: »

It was a 5 year creep from 2gb to 4gb, I would say 6gb as a minimum. 8 is just more sensible in the long run.

I'd tend to agree since the RAM constraints, almost more so than anything else, is what has stifled design as this generation has continued.

danthefan

SeantheMan wrote: »

I think you need over 4gb these days in fairness. Some games are super hogs for memory, add STEAM and a few other programs running. 4gb should be "minimum" at this stage for any gaming PC.

Off topic - but this is an excellent analogy of how RAM works, very interesting I thought. It's put into simple terms so anyone can understand.


http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/13vdn6/eli5_what_exactly_is_so_great_about_64_bit/c77i2du

I don't understand the technicalities but from what I gather most games are 32bit and as such can only use a fairly limited amount of RAM, hence 4GB is generally enough for a gaming PC.

ShadowHearth

danthefan wrote: »

I don't understand the technicalities but from what I gather most games are 32bit and as such can only use a fairly limited amount of RAM, hence 4GB is generally enough for a gaming PC.

This. I said gaming only, if you got only game up, then 4gb is more then enough as games cannot use more then 2gb of ram due to 32bit architecture. So obviously if you got 4 windows, Internet explorer, media player and game up, then you need more ram.

Some games gone over that limit. Wow has a patch so it can use more then 2gb ram. I think few other games have done that too, but it is still rare.

Shapey Fiend

I depends on what kind of games you enjoy.

Consoles are probably cheaper and a better all rounder. I don't like playing FPS or RTS on a joypad though so there's little point in me having one being as those are my favourite genres.

PC is definitely on the up at the moment after being kind of in the doldrums for the last decade compared to their 90's heyday when there was a better selection of games coming out.

danthefan

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I depends on what kind of games you enjoy.

Consoles are probably cheaper and a better all rounder. I don't like playing FPS or RTS on a joypad though so there's little point in me having one being as those are my favourite genres.

PC is definitely on the up at the moment after being kind of in the doldrums for the last decade compared to their 90's heyday when there was a better selection of games coming out.

Yep. Steam has had a mahoosive impact plus games like MMOs, RTS, action RPGs and some other genres which really don't lend themselves to console gaming have played a large part in that.

I'll confess that I used to pirate some games, I don't do it ever anymore, and while rates of piracy are still very high I'd imagine I get the sense that more and more people are willing to pay for their games also.

Meirleach

NTMK wrote: »

Im just happy they're both using what are pc standards in regular cpu architectures and DX11 because the lack of the Cell and opengl means there will be less time spent trying to optimise for 3/4 completely different platforms and more time developing the game

With a lot of the current console games they actually skip using both of those APIs and code on the bare metal for performance purposes.

Having said that, it'd be nice if everyone standardised on OpenGL instead of DirectX. As it stands right now, OpenGL works on the following platforms: Windows, Macintosh, Linux, and the PS3, can't remember if the rumours of the Wii U fully supporting it turned out be true or not. DirectX is limited to Windows and the Xbox platforms.

Everyone using OpenGL would make it easier to port between platforms, since it's the API most platforms support.

I've just wrote all this and realised it's kinda off topic, oops. Okay then, for myself I don't mind paying a slight premium gaming on PC to have a much better gaming experience. Although with these crazy steamsales I think I'm most likely not actually paying more at all.

Overheal

Speaking of games you'd never be able to run on a console: anybody else played Planetside 2 yet?

Tipsy McSwagger

When Half Life 3 is finally released there will be no more debating.

NTMK

Meirleach wrote: »

Having said that, it'd be nice if everyone standardised on OpenGL instead of DirectX. As it stands right now, OpenGL works on the following platforms: Windows, Macintosh, Linux, and the PS3, can't remember if the rumours of the Wii U fully supporting it turned out be true or not. DirectX is limited to Windows and the Xbox platforms.

Everyone using OpenGL would make it easier to port between platforms, since it's the API most platforms support.

Oh i know i didnt mean that post as a dig at open gl i was just mearly pointing out how having 3/4 platforms with similar architectures and API's as opposed to now where you have xbox (IBM Xenon and DX9), PS3 (Cell and open gl) and PC (mostly intel and Dx11) will benefit all gamers

this gen they've had to strip back because the cell processor is a nightmare for devs along with sonys insistence not to help Third party devs with it

gizmo

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

When Half Life 3 is finally released there will be no more debating.

Why? You think Valve aren't going to wait until the next-gen consoles are launched before releasing it?

Washington Irving

gizmo wrote: »

Why? You think Valve aren't going to wait until the next-gen consoles are launched before releasing it?

They'll probably wait until the next next-gen consoles, and even then it's only a maybe.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah they are going to wait three gens of consoles. Omg hl3 confirmed

hightower1

ScumLord wrote: »

Because technically, the PC is better. Everyone can argue back and forth about preference but when it boils down to the specs PC wins.

You selectivly decided to not quote my whole post on that? :rolleyes:

... let me....

hightower1 wrote: »

Ill be the first to say PC gaming is probably the best performance platform right now but thats also like saying the Ferrari 458 is the best in car in the world when its simply not. The best IMO is something that balances price with usability , convenience, ease of entry, selection...ie....a great all rounder.

So like I said, being the best performance driver doesnt mean your the best. Also; as I mentioned, the best platform will balance specs against ease of use, cost, convenience etc. As you can see I completely agree PC has the best specs, thats a foregone conclusion however what PC gains in that regard it looses even more ground by costing so much more than any other platform (where a ps3 vs xbox will cost 10 or15% more the average gaming pc runs nearly 100% more), by being the least user friendly platform (with having to use multiple different gaming platforms like steam, uplay etc.) It also looses out on convenience considering that to actually see any real effect from all those graphical enhancements you need to be running a pc monitor for 1920x1080 (which even a large monitor in pc terms is still only 27inches - hardly sofa territory there.)

Thus far all I can see that PC has going for it is that you have excellent performance and if you'll let me use the car analogy again... so too does a f1 car, excellent performance but no convenience, no comparative ease of use and no comparative ease of entry for new comers. I dont think any sane person would call a f1 car the best car in the world nor too should anyone call PC the best platform based on specs alone. Best should encompass all aspects important to modern gaming.

AlmightyCushion

hightower1 wrote: »

You selectivly decided to not quote my whole post on that? :rolleyes:

... let me....



So like I said, being the best performance driver doesnt mean your the best. Also; as I mentioned, the best platform will balance specs against ease of use, cost, convenience etc. As you can see I completely agree PC has the best specs, thats a foregone conclusion however what PC gains in that regard it looses even more ground by costing so much more than any other platform (where a ps3 vs xbox will cost 10 or15% more the average gaming pc runs nearly 100% more), by being the least user friendly platform (with having to use multiple different gaming platforms like steam, uplay etc.) It also looses out on convenience considering that to actually see any real effect from all those graphical enhancements you need to be running a pc monitor for 1920x1080 (which even a large monitor in pc terms is still only 27inches - hardly sofa territory there.)

Thus far all I can see that PC has going for it is that you have excellent performance and if you'll let me use the car analogy again... so too does a f1 car, excellent performance but no convenience, no comparative ease of use and no comparative ease of entry for new comers. I dont think any sane person would call a f1 car the best car in the world nor too should anyone call PC the best platform based on specs alone. Best should encompass all aspects important to modern gaming.

You can hook a pc upto a TV just like a console so it doesn't lose out there. As for the different platforms, I mainly use steam and have boat loads of games. Only reason I have origin is because there was a glitch that let you get a load of games free on it. Plus having two platforms installed isn't a major inconvenience.

The pc has its drawbacks but you're clutching with these two especially the first one.

Overheal

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You can hook a pc upto a TV just like a console so it doesn't lose out there. As for the different platforms, I mainly use steam and have boat loads of games. Only reason I have origin is because there was a glitch that let you get a load of games free on it. Plus having two platforms installed isn't a major inconvenience.

The pc has its drawbacks but you're clutching with these two especially the first one.

As if reading your mind, Steam just released this update:

AlmightyCushion

Overheal wrote: »

As if reading your mind, Steam just released this update:

It's been in the beta release for a while. Nice to see it get an official launch.

Overheal

and with a sale!

ShadowHearth

hightower1 wrote: »

You selectivly decided to not quote my whole post on that? :rolleyes:

... let me....



So like I said, being the best performance driver doesnt mean your the best. Also; as I mentioned, the best platform will balance specs against ease of use, cost, convenience etc. As you can see I completely agree PC has the best specs, thats a foregone conclusion however what PC gains in that regard it looses even more ground by costing so much more than any other platform (where a ps3 vs xbox will cost 10 or15% more the average gaming pc runs nearly 100% more), by being the least user friendly platform (with having to use multiple different gaming platforms like steam, uplay etc.) It also looses out on convenience considering that to actually see any real effect from all those graphical enhancements you need to be running a pc monitor for 1920x1080 (which even a large monitor in pc terms is still only 27inches - hardly sofa territory there.)

Thus far all I can see that PC has going for it is that you have excellent performance and if you'll let me use the car analogy again... so too does a f1 car, excellent performance but no convenience, no comparative ease of use and no comparative ease of entry for new comers. I dont think any sane person would call a f1 car the best car in the world nor too should anyone call PC the best platform based on specs alone. Best should encompass all aspects important to modern gaming.

Andy! Is that you?

SeantheMan

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's been in the beta release for a while. Nice to see it get an official launch.

Yeah, I've had it since Beta. Never used it though, even though I have a telly hooked up to my PC as a dual monitor.

spooky donkey

I agree consoles are more relaxed. Try play an online game like COD of BF on PC and you get a string of rules thrown at you and can get kicked for using certian weapons/gadgets.
Console is just more stress free do what you like and dont worry about rules made up by some 10 year old kid.....
Ive moved away from PC gaming over the years and more play consoles now, Im just not arsed upgrading PCs any more they devalue (part) now so quickly, its just not worth it for me.

Burgo

spooky donkey wrote: »

I agree consoles are more relaxed. Try play an online game like COD of BF on PC and you get a string of rules thrown at you and can get kicked for using certian weapons/gadgets.
Console is just more stress free do what you like and dont worry about rules made up by some 10 year old kid.....
Ive moved away from PC gaming over the years and more play consoles now, Im just not arsed upgrading PCs any more they devalue (part) now so quickly, its just not worth it for me.

Well thats the beauty of PC gaming, you find a crappy server you don't like you can just change.

Bloodwing

spooky donkey wrote: »

I agree consoles are more relaxed. Try play an online game like COD of BF on PC and you get a string of rules thrown at you and can get kicked for using certian weapons/gadgets.
Console is just more stress free do what you like and dont worry about rules made up by some 10 year old kid.....
Ive moved away from PC gaming over the years and more play consoles now, Im just not arsed upgrading PCs any more they devalue (part) now so quickly, its just not worth it for me.

For me that's a positive thing. I don't play COD but with BF all you have to do is search for a Dice server and you won't have any special rules but I enjoy playing Metro on a pistol/ knife only server.