Time for Local TD's to start supporting Knock.

The independent again today has another story on how shannon is going to start undercutting Knock airport with state subsidies.:o
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/leaked-report-forecasts-3000-new-jobs-at-shannon-within-five-years-3311460.html

Its getting very easy for Shannon to do this, they have just had 100 million of debt written off and will receive rents from the free tax zone in Shannon to support the airport(again money that should be going to the taxpayers). Just shows incompetence really does pay off.

Unless some parity and fair treatment is brought in soon we will be looking at the terminal demise and eventual closure of Knock airport and a 3 hour drive to our nearest airport.

If people want to see Knock close so be it, otherwise your local TD needs to block Leo Varadkars single handed destruction of the airport.:mad:

nuac

Yes - I am sure Knock management are looking into this, and briefing E Kenny and Ml Ring

oscarBravo

Michelle Mulherin raised the issue in the Dáil on Thursday.

edit: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/topicalissuesdail/november2012/29november2012/

No transcript. Man, I miss kildarestreet.com

finisklin

The DAA managing Shannon was never a match made in heaven and given how some of their disastrous decisions have come home to roost recently (e.g. T2) this split was inevitable.

What Knock has provided to the people of the West has been a great achievement - access to the UK primarily.

However, Shannon is a bigger airport serving a bigger population, hinterland and enterprise. It has over 100 international firms and 6500 people employed there. Are we saying that Knock should be prioritised ahead of these?

This is what's wrong with Irish politics.......

signostic

finisklin wrote: »

What Knock has provided to the people of the West has been a great achievement - access to the UK primarily.

.

As you say Knock`s business will be primarily connections to the UK and a holiday flight program during the summer months.
The flights to the UK (London, Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool, East Mids) are as much as would be hoped for the size of the regions population.

Ryanair flights to the continent last season were, mainly outbound Irish and very few inbound Italians, Spanish, French or German.
The flights I believe were stopped prematurely in September.It will be interesting to see which of these routes Ryanair will return next years (Barcelona most likely). Even though the American dream still lives on I believe but at this point (or any point in the future) its not realistic .

Cosmo Kramer

finisklin wrote: »

. Are we saying that Knock should be prioritised ahead of these?

This is what's wrong with Irish politics.......

I agree with this, all that is needed here is a level playing field. But Shannon is being rewarded for losing €8m per year by having the €100m debt written off, Knock more or less has to stand on it's own two feet.

Knock is a far better run airport than Shannon and if both were treated equally it would be more successful in relative terms. People around here don't shout loud enough about their airport like people in the mid-west do.

I actually don't think US flights are a priority. Happy for Shannon to operate as a western base for them with the pre-clearance facilities etc. Ireland's expat links are more global than that now, as we are seeing with the successes of the likes of Etihad and Emirates in Dublin. Knock needs better timed London flights for commuters and businesses and direct flights to a major european hub (Schipol, CDG, Frankfurt or Heathrow) that link into the codeshare of a major alliance network. Shannon has both of these - but the government is basically bailing them out annually to keep them going. Knock just needs a little help to establish these services but if we don't ask loudly we don't get.

Neworder79

IWAK have taken to the media today to highlight the lack of balance in aviation policy and potentially anti-competative nature of the Shannon package. We now know why engagement with DOT and DOE on the business park, SDZ and airport master-plan over the last few years have come to nought. Government policy as stated by the minister is to support 1 airport in the West of Ireland in Shannon.

IWAK press release (my emphasis):

• Government takes parochial approach to aviation
• Panic measure to support State owned Shannon airport in decline against increasingly successful airport in Knock
• Consultation futile, as Transport Minister has made his mind up

Dublin 3rd December 2012: To-day the Government launched a full package of measures to ensure the long term future of Shannon Airport, including a write off of €100m of debt, working capital which could total several million euros annually, and a range of incentives to help it grow routes and other aviation business.

Reacting to the decision Liam Scollan, Chairman of Ireland West Airport Knock, said: “The decision to intervene so generously in one airport while ignoring other airports amounted to an unfair, wasteful and possibly illegal use of scarce resources, which would not serve the interests of national aviation. They could trigger the terminal decline of an efficient, growing airport like Knock, which has begun to compete successfully with the State owned Shannon at a fraction of the cost. It was also a financially disastrous policy for hard pressed taxpayers.”

“This decision is connected to Knock’s emergence as a credible international airport. Today it has circa 700, 000 passengers and 28 overseas destinations and with Europe’s largest airlines Ryanair and Lufthansa together with Aer Lingus and Flybe. The Airport currently has 45% of the UK Seat Capacity market in the West of Ireland including Shannon,”

The decision avoids any attempt to benchmark and look for value for money. Knock’s commercial growth meant that in 2012, it managed to fund 92% of its total operating costs with just 8% coming from Government. By contrast, Shannon Airport has losses now reaching €8m per year, even after additional subsidies. The funding of losses at Shannon Airport costs €6.10 per passenger while the comparative figure for Ireland West Airport Knock is just €0.87.

A series of Government statements has indicated that its aviation strategy was focussing on and supporting just one airport. In one such statement it was highlighted that a change in Government policy would be required to stop Knock catching up with Shannon. On 31st March 2012, quoted in the national media, Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar TD said: “If nothing was done for Shannon the airport stood in danger of being passed out by Knock airport in passenger numbers, despite a current gap of over 900,000 passengers… I think if the trends continue as they are it will happen because Shannon’s numbers are already down 20 per cent this year and Knock is still growing. It is only a matter of time without a change in policy.”

This parochial decision by Government to blindly pump cash into one State airport, in the absence of any attention to its impacts on a competing airport like Knock, ignores warnings from the Government’s own aviation advisers at Booz and Co. In their report to Government earlier this year they stated that the Government should not proceed with a support package for Shannon before developing a coherent policy towards airports for the country as a whole.

Such an approach would have meant looking at the efficiencies of an airport such as Knock and allocating investment where it could get the best return for the tax payer. However, by announcing its package for Shannon today, the Government has made a clear nonsense of its second announcement to-day to commence the preparation of a national aviation strategy.

“Over the past 18 months, we have presented Government with a series of innovative proposals which would lead to 1000’s more tourists and 100’s of jobs in both tourism and aviation related industries,” said Joe Gilmore, CEO, Ireland West Airport Knock. “All of these proposals were rejected on the basis that the Government would only engage in this manner with its own State-owned airports. At the same time it redoubled its focus on Shannon.”

The Government has overlooked the understanding entered into over 20 years ago between the State and the people of the West of Ireland. Knock is owned by a not-for-profit Trust which was asked to take on the responsibility of running an airport and additionally to stimulate enterprise and jobs. This understanding was signed into existence as a partnership between State and community of the West of Ireland in 1991.

“In the intervening years Knock grew into in internationally competitive airport employing over 100 people and supporting 900 jobs in the wider region. Throughout 2011/2012 in a time of recession we asked Government to help it make a step change to doubling these benefits for the region,” said Joe Gilmore.

During that period, Ireland West Airport Knock, demonstrated to Government the extent to which it had reached record levels of efficiency and value for money with 66% of staff able to work flexibly across different functions and 99% of flights operating with zero operational delays. It asked the Government to consider rewarding efficiency, value for money as well as the voluntary effort behind the airport.

“We live in a time when people have to pull together, when people are co-operating more to make scarce resources go further. It is this type of model which holds a candle of hope for the country at a time when bailing out lavish spending entities is undermining that spirit,” said Chairman, Liam Scollan.

Unless the Government stops acting in the interests of one airport at the expense of another, then Ireland West with its resolve to serve the 800,000 people of its region, will have no choice but to challenge the Government’s inequitable behaviour towards the airport and the community in the Courts.

(Ends)

For further MEDIA information contact:
Donal Healy, Marketing Manager
Ireland West Airport Knock
T: +353 (0) 94 936 8108; M: + 353 87 4165612
E: donalhealy@irelandwestairport.com

Its in the journal today, looks like a legal challenge coming up.

If the Taoiseach and M Ring do not get some fairness brought to this situation then they really are not representing the people they were elected by and should be removed in the next election.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/west-airport-knock-threatens-legal-challenge-over-shannon-plans-699083-Dec2012/

This is Leo Varadkars email address for those who want to relate their disquiet over his treatment of Knock airport.

MINISTER'S OFFICE <minister@dttas.ie>

nuac

Good statement from Knock.

They should have a meeting with Enda pronto, before getting involved in a legal action

nuac

nuac wrote: »

Good statement from Knock.

They should have a meeting with Enda pronto, before getting involved in a legal action

This injustice needs to get highlighted in the media alot more. The 700 thousand customers using Knock pay a development fee to the airport. Now thanks to the government the taxes from these same people will be used to subsidise and keep Shannon open permanently, which will likely have the effect of closing Knock Airport.
Knock should be looking for its own 100 million bailout and its own 7 million a year rental income.

irishgeo

your forgetting knock is not state owned and secondly i though bailouts of semi state bodies was illegal under EU law due to it being it anti competitive.

irishgeo

irishgeo wrote: »

your forgetting knock is not state owned and secondly i though bailouts of semi state bodies was illegal under EU law due to it being it anti competitive.

Its a community trust airport, which gives the best of both worlds to the government. Its providing 100's of millions in revenue to the government and those idiots are setting a course that will mean the closure of Knock. This is all to keep the massive loss making shannon airport open. The decision yesterday by Varadkar has to go down as one of the stupidest of the year.

This is for 2006 before the airport really took off
For instance, in 2006 IW A Knock contributed c. £63m of total spending by inbound tourists and supported 800,000 bednights in the region. In addition, the airport is a significant employer in its own right providing 180 full time jobs on site and supporting a total 786 jobs in the wider region.!

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/9793-0.pdf

http://www.bmwassembly.ie/policy/Research%20&%20Policy%20docs/bmw_airports_23_09_09.pdf

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Planning/DevelopmentPlansLocalAreaPlansandStrategies/LocalAreaPlans/IrelandWestAirportKnock/Archieve/Document1,18166,en.pdf

corkonion

If they are to compete independently why is Cork to remain under DAA controlls

corkonion

corkonion wrote: »

If they are to compete independently why is Cork to remain under DAA controlls

It shouldn't be, and in reality Cork should get the same generous package as Shannon. A package that i think many have not realised how generous it is...

100 million debt write off,
12 Million + rental income per year.
tax incentives
Massive land bank to do with as they wish including prime industrial land in Limerick and Kerry.

All taken from the taxpayers pocket

If Cork or Knock got that i'd expect they would wipe the floor with Shannon within a few years.

Neworder79

Posted a summary of Today's briefing of the Oireachtas Transport Committee by the management of IWAK on this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82074248#post82074248

mayotom

Well it looks like Ryanair are still on board, Knock to Malaga is to be announced today

17/12/2012 - Ryanair announces new scheduled service to Malaga in the Costa Del Sol from Ireland West

Neworder79

The airport have tweeted a new video laying out its contribution to the local economy and making the case for continued investment.

Youtube - Ireland West Airport Knock - An airport for jobs & growth

lotusm

Neworder79 wrote: »

The airport have tweeted a new video laying out its contribution to the local economy and making the case for continued investment.

Youtube - Ireland West Airport Knock - An airport for jobs & growth

excellent video...will put together.... Hopefully it will continue to grow ... Was hoping they would break the 700k in passenger numbers for 2012 but steady as you go:D

lotusm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1231/1224328279819.html

Leo appears to be changing his tone towards knock ...maybe the local TD's have be giving it to hom in the ear...

Mr Varadkar also praised Ireland West Airport Knock in Co Mayo, saying the facility was “doing very well” and required very little subvention for passengers. “I think there is room for both operators.”

mayfly1

I see from Midwest radio that the Taoiseach, Minister Varadkar and Ring have agreed to meet IWAK, clearly a result of media and public pressure on them. Let's hope this is not charades they will play with IWAK. Also understand from airport sources IWAK have prepared a case to go to EU competition with if needed if Taoiseach does not deliver fairness for the west and allow Noonan to pull the wool over his eyes.

MOD NOTE: Posting of newspaper articles is no longer allowed on boards.ie

Please refer to here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77390771

Defiler Of The Coffin

Clearly there is favoritism towards Shannon in the Government, how else can such generous terms be explained? Is it too much to ask that Shannon gets its house in order and at least tries to run a profitable enterprise?

lotusm

No doubt Noonan is not just interested in bailing out the bondholders but also Shannon airport, and this case will never get a penny back... at least with knock its profitable.. but sure reward failure I guess:rolleyes:

finisklin

What Knock has achieved has been great and against the odds. Some perspective is needed. Departing passengers (us the punters!) are paying to keep Knock afloat through the €10 departure tax. Shannon doesn't charge this.

What would be an interesting exercise to do is look at the charges being applied to the airlines that use Knock and Shannon (if any?) and see who secures the better deals? That may be a better way of measuring effectiveness as opposed to looking at subvention.

I appreciate that the DAA are no longer involved in Shannon but have to give them credit for their retail offering, great range and layout, attractively merchandised, promotions well sign posted etc. Knock have improved their offering and display with the help of Fergal Quinn,which was an interesting and worthwhile exercise to undertake.

The video is interesting and given that they have an ambitious target of 1m passengers they may be too ambitious. See passenger growth figures here. This indicates that they are growing at about 5% year on year and if they can maintain this growth could hit it within the next 6-8 years.

Will wait and see if Inda can get Varadkar into line on this. :rolleyes:

nuac

Knock needs to be vigilant.

Seems complex deal done or being done Govt/DAA/New Shannon entity.

Minister for Finance close to Shannon and no doubt has and will be sympathetic to Shannon.

Enda should pull rank if required

nuac

nuac wrote: »

Knock needs to be vigilant.

Seems complex deal done or being done Govt/DAA/New Shannon entity.

Minister for Finance close to Shannon and no doubt has and will be sympathetic to Shannon.

Enda should pull rank if required

He has lost a lot of local support over this. Knock generates jobs for the whole region. Its deprived enough without the local Taoiseach assisting a bloated overfunded airport in the South of the country.

finisklin

this has been given one massive kick for touch.....

From here

finisklin

finisklin wrote: »

this has been given one massive kick for touch.....

From here

Until May at which point the Government will have a report for where funding can be targeted, it could be much worse.

Massive pressure needs to be kept up on regional politicians, including opposition, Ministers and Taoiseach.

Shannon has not got €460 million investment from the taxpayer over the past 10 years, this did not happen without influence from politicians in the Shannon region.

Sponge Bob

What are you on about, can you show the source for the €460m since 2003 investment assertion with A BREAKDOWN of the €460m you assert was spent on Shannon. ??????

Local politicians can realistically either have Knock or the Western Rail Corridor but not both.

As most of the local councillors in that area are members of the legendary "Western Inter County Rail Committee" it is obvious where their priorities lie.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What are you on about, can you show the source for the €460m since 2003 investment assertion with A BREAKDOWN of the €460m you assert was spent on Shannon. ??????

Local politicians can realistically either have Knock or the Western Rail Corridor but not both.

As most of the local councillors in that area are members of the legendary "Western Inter County Rail Committee" it is obvious where their priorities lie.

I'll PM you as the mod deleted the links above, Generally it was 160 million in direct investment 2003 - 2012, and the latest tax payer bailout of 300 million(100 Million debt + Massive public land bank + plus an annual 13 million annual rent roll from state properties(under estimated in article)). Lots of people do not want to hear just how much Shannon has cost the taxpayer, it upsets some cosy notions. Good PR by the ever present Shannon lobby has conjured the fantasy that this latest bailout only cost the taxpayers another 100 million.

“The Government bail out of Shannon could cost as much as €300 million. It includes writing off €100 million in debt, then add in the annual rent roll from Shannon Development which amounts to €10 million per annum.
“Nobody begrudges this lucrative package for Shannon Airport, but surely Knock airport is entitled to a similar investment, the Board of Knock airport and indeed the people of the region are simply asking for parity of esteem and equality. In that context, the Government must act quickly and decisively in announcing a similar package of measures for Ireland West Airport Knock,” he said.
The Sinn Féin councillor also criticised successive Fianna Fáil governments for being ‘loud in their praise of the airport’ but at the same time only investing €15 million over three successive governments.
“Over the last ten years we have witnessed a policy of discrimination by successive Fianna Fáil governments in terms of funding for Ireland West Airport. In the last ten years, Shannon Airport received €30 million towards the cost of air traffic control while Ireland West Airport received nothing. Over the same period, Shannon received €160 million from government, while Ireland West Airport Knock only received €15 million.
“But quite remarkably, over the same time frame and in the most adverse of circumstances, the Board of Ireland West Airport Knock managed to invest €16.5 million in the airport, largely derived from astute management of meagre resources,” he claimed.
Meanwhile, Fianna Fáil Senator Marc MacSharry has lodged an official complaint with the European Commission over the Government’s measures, which he says give Shannon Airport an unfair advantage over Knock.

The Senator said “I am a supporter of Shannon Airport and any initiatives that assist in its growth and performance. However, the particular measures announced by the Transport Minister Leo Varadkar will unfairly pitch Shannon Airport against Knock. Shannon stands to benefit from an estimated total investment of €300 million while Knock is left to fend for itself.

“In the past ten years the Government invested €160 million in Shannon Airport, but there has been a 63% decline in passenger numbers over the last 5 years. In contrast, Knock Airport received €15 million over the same period and managed to increase its numbers by 20%. Knock should not be penalised for its excellent performance and for managing its resources well.

“The North West of Ireland can make a very significant contribution to national recovery. As a gateway to the region, Knock Airport is critical to this recovery. It is a driving force in the growth of tourism, the promotion of indigenous industry and the attraction of foreign direct investment.