Tragedy in Kansas

Itssoeasy

I've just read that the chiefs made the call to play tomorrow. I pressume the head coach, GM, and LB were involved in the decision less than twelve hours after they saw one of their players kill themselves in front of them. Should they be even in the decision ?

I mean will it make that much difference if the game is played tommorow ? They will be playing on a crime scene.

Itssoeasy

malistheman wrote: »

The game is actually a good distraction for the players IMO. I know people are saying that they should be allowed to mourn and that but I honestly think that at a time like this the players just want something to focus on as a team.

How can they even remotely focus given what has happened ?

HigginsJ

Was reading the story on NFL.com. Some of the comments by people on there are horrible. Saying Belcher deserves to burn in hell etc. etc.

Clearly the kid wasn't right in the head & this is a tragic story. You heart goes out to the families involved and the 3 month old infant left behind

Syferus

While imthat stuff was classless I have little sympathy for Belecher, he murdered someone and then took the coward's way out.

I feel for his family but unless it turns out he did have concussion issues or some other aliment it's hard for me to feel sorry for him, as it stands it was a situation entirely of his own making.

HigginsJ

Syferus wrote: »

While imthat stuff was classless I have little sympathy for Belecher, he murdered someone and then took the coward's way out.

I feel for his family but unless it turns out he did have concussion issues or some other aliment it's hard for me to feel sorry for him, as it stands it was a situation entirely of his own making.

We will never know what was going on inside his head.

I would be similar in opinion that I would be short on sympathy for him but classless tasteless comments from people are horrible.

Itssoeasy

It will be interesting to see if he shot himself in the chest so that his brain is intact.

Syferus

Remember Belecher was only 25, there wasn't a huge amount of scope for it bring concussion related compare ld to the likes of Junior who had played pro for half their lives. I have my doubt about it being anything more grand that a domestic dispute gone horribly wrong, situations of murder-suicides are well known in all walks of life and the vast majority of those people have never been concussed or taken PEDs.

DBBacker

Syferus wrote: »

Remember Belecher was only 25, there wasn't a huge amount of scope for it bring concussion related compare ld to the likes of Junior who had played pro for half their lives. I have my doubt about it being anything more grand that a domestic dispute gone horribly wrong, situations of murder-suicides are well known in all walks of life and the vast majority of those people have never been concussed or taken PEDs.

Belcher played Offensive line, Linebacker, Defensive Back and Fullback in high school. He started his freshman year. That gives him 10 years of full contact football where his main position is one of high collision.

It would naive to think that the brain can't diminish in ten year playing the sport never mind 20 years. 10 years of taking a beating to the head can do the same damage to the head. It will most likely turn out it wasn't anything to do with playing the game but it would be naive to think it couldn't be related at his age.

Syferus

DBBacker wrote: »

Belcher played Offensive line, Linebacker, Defensive Back and Fullback in high school. He started his freshman year. That gives him 10 years of full contact football where his main position is one of high collision.

It would naive to think that the brain can't diminish in ten year playing the sport never mind 20 years. 10 years of taking a beating to the head can do the same damage to the head. It will most likely turn out it wasn't anything to do with playing the game but it would be naive to think it couldn't be related at his age.

No one said that..?

It's simply that there's far less scope for concussion build up over the course of a career that only encompasses high school, college and three and a bit pro career where the player only earnt his way into a starting position than there is in someone like Seau where he did as much in high school and college but had a long career at the highest and by far most violent level of the sport.

DBBacker

Syferus wrote: »

No one said that..?

It's simply that there's far less scope for concussion build up over the course of a career that only encompasses high school, college and three and a bit pro career where the player only earnt his way into a starting position than there is in someone like Seau where he did as much in high school and college but had a long career at the highest and by far most violent level of the sport.

I played along side a guy who played as a linebackers and he had to retire from football from taking 4 bad concussions in the space of 6 years which included High school and college.

The problem is for years concussion awareness in high and college was non existent as it was in the Pros. Many believe the damage for most of these guys was done before they set foot in the Pros.

Also comparing the amount of the time on the field is irrelevant. All it takes is one play to do serious damage.

Syferus

DBBacker wrote: »

I played along side a guy who played as a linebackers and he had to retire from football from taking 4 bad concussions in the space of 6 years which included High school and college.

The problem is for years concussion awareness in high and college was non existent as it was in the Pros. Many believe the damage for most of these guys was done before they set foot in the Pros.

Also comparing the amount of the time on the field is irrelevant. All it takes is one play to do serious damage.

That's like saying it doesn't matter how many times you put your hand in the shark tank as long as you don't get bit, it's faulty logic.

You're putting yourself in the positions to get injured, concussed or worse. The more time you spend on the field the more likely something will happen or there will be a build up of incidents. That doesn't mean a kid can't play one snap and end up paralysed for life or that someone can play for twenty years and come out the other end relatively ok.

Especially for something like concussions serious damage is almost always as a result of repeated head trauma and the more times you're out there in that position the more likely you are to have long-term effects from it. Boxers are the prime example of what can happen happen on that front.

DBBacker

Syferus wrote: »

That's like saying it doesn't matter how many times you put your hand in the shark tank as long as you don't get bit, it's faulty logic.

You're putting yourself in the positions to get injured, concussed or worse. The more time you spend on the field the more likely something will happen or there will be a build up of incidents. That doesn't mean a kid can't play one snap and end up paralysed for life or that someone can play for twenty years and come out the other end relatively ok.

Especially for something like concussions serious damage is almost always as a result of repeated head trauma and the more times you're out there in that position the more likely you are to have long-term effects from it. Boxers are the prime example of what can happen happen on that front.

You don't seem to grasp it. The point is many experts believe the damage is done long before they enter the pros. Many studies have shown that there could be serious damage in teenagers who have already smacked their heads more than the average human being. None of these hits are good for the brain.

As for the one hit. All it takes is for one hit that could potentially end your career and possibly your life. Now multiply that by many hits and then multiply that by many years. You have to be a genius to work out some considerable amount of damage has been done in the first few years never mind the end of someones career. Especially those in high collision positions on the field.

Have you ever taken a knock to the head in a helmet? Or without?

spiralism

Syferus wrote: »

Remember Belecher was only 25, there wasn't a huge amount of scope for it bring concussion related compare ld to the likes of Junior who had played pro for half their lives. I have my doubt about it being anything more grand that a domestic dispute gone horribly wrong, situations of murder-suicides are well known in all walks of life and the vast majority of those people have never been concussed or taken PEDs.

This is a good point. Also, as he was a rotational LB and special teamer, i never heard of him having any concussion issues, these usually come up if you pay much attention to the team, and being a fan of a rival team, i'd tend to keep an eye on the chiefs.

There's every likelihood this was just a case of serious mental problems existing in the guy. Before he died he supposedly thanked the coach and GM, not the actions of someone whose brain was damaged beyond repair. Contrast with the case of Chris Benoit who brutally murdered his family and took his own life in a blind fit and whose brain was found severely damaged by head trauma post mortem.

These players are capable of suffering from depression and other serious mental illnesses too, as opposed to it being a physical thing. I think its stigmatised, especially in sports and these things are often regarded as "being soft" or merely attributed to something different. There is every possibility Belcher suffered from any number of mental illnesses ranging from Severe Depression to Paranoid Schizophrenia and all of this occurred in a moment of lucidity. It would be short sighted and incredibly damaging to pin this on the ever growing head trauma issue and ignore mental health altogether.

DBBacker

spiralism wrote: »

This is a good point. Also, as he was a rotational LB and special teamer, i never heard of him having any concussion issues, these usually come up if you pay much attention to the team, and being a fan of a rival team, i'd tend to keep an eye on the chiefs.

You really think that all concussions are reported or that every player is honest about having a concussion? I bet you there are some that don't even know they have had minor concussions after a game.

Trojan

DBBacker wrote: »

You really think that all concussions are reported or that every player is honest about having a concussion?

Rightly or wrongly, many players are sure as hell not going to report voluntarily after seeing what's happened to Alex Smith.

But there's still nothing (that I've seen) to indicate that this incident was concussion related.

Dohnny Jepp

Maybe I'm cruel in having zero sympathy for Belcher.... if only he shot himself in the first place and not take the life of the mother of his child.... She's the one i've bucket loads of sympathy for

Pudsy33

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Maybe I'm cruel in having zero sympathy for Belcher.... if only he shot himself in the first place and not take the life of the mother of his child.... She's the one i've bucket loads of sympathy for

I feel sympathy in that he was obviously very disturbed or depressed. However he is not the victim here, the real victims are his girlfriend and baby.

bruschi

with regards to the game being played, I think the NFL are in an awkward position one way or another. The game has to be played before next Sunday, and it was the Chiefs who apparently have asked for the game to go ahead as scheduled. Its probably easier on the players to get it played sooner rather than waiting a couple of days, getting their bodies and minds out of sync and be in no state to play if it was cancelled til Monday or Tuesday. If it was a case of like in soccer when it can be postponed for a while and played at a break during the year, then fine, but the tight schedules of the NFL season doesnt allow for any interruptions.

you'd wonder as well what would be going through the players minds seeing a team mate kill their partner and leave their child an orphan, and how would anyone think about the situation. Anger? Sadness? Confusion? Its not a situation that was seen in any sport, so its very hard to know how to handle the situation.

Its hard to feel any sympathy for him though. Although he must have been going through demons in his mind, to kill his partner and leave his daughter without parents is horrific. She is Jamal Charles wifes cousin too by the way, so it will surely have even more of an impact on him. A horrible situation, and just leaves so many people affected by it.

Syferus

DBBacker wrote: »

You don't seem to grasp it. The point is many experts believe the damage is done long before they enter the pros. Many studies have shown that there could be serious damage in teenagers who have already smacked their heads more than the average human being. None of these hits are good for the brain.

As for the one hit. All it takes is for one hit that could potentially end your career and possibly your life. Now multiply that by many hits and then multiply that by many years. You have to be a genius to work out some considerable amount of damage has been done in the first few years never mind the end of someones career. Especially those in high collision positions on the field.

Have you ever taken a knock to the head in a helmet? Or without?

The 20-stoners in GAA club matches bang hard enough when the ref's not looking for me to have plenty of experience on that front :pac:

Rugby hasn't really fully addressed these issues but anyone that's played a game knows there is some incredibly sketchy moments in every single match, nevermind at the professional level where players as big and strong as all but the largest linemen and they have absolutely no mandatory head protection.

No one is saying damage isn't done at young ages, and the issue of a developing brain taking hits and the age when players should be allowed to play full-contact football.

The fact does remain that most head trauma issues worsen with time, just look at how so many pro boxers deteriorate after their careers are over. The boxers that have only fought irregularly or just at underage exhibit a significantly lower level of trauma related issues. That alone tells you that long careers that involved talking hits to the head does play a role in how seriously they will effect someone's ability to live a relatively normal life.

Just because 'the' damage is done at young ages doesn't mean more concussions and head injuries on top of that won't make the situation far worse and much more likely to result in tragic circumstances, be it someone like Junior Seau taking his own life or someone like Chris Benoit killing his family. Would they have ended up the same way if their careers were far shorter or they took a lesser amount of hits? Maybe, but I would wager that it'd have been less likely.

Masked Man

Apparently a Browns employee hanged himself in the team facility yesterday. God what a horrible day.

jack presley

Masked Man wrote: »

Apparently a Browns employee hanged himself in the team facility yesterday. God what a horrible day.

Around 8-9 people kill themselves every week in Ireland and there are only 4 million of us. It's a huge problem worldwide.

Hazys

I think the concussion talk is a bit ott without any evidence.

Millions of people have committed suicide without ever suffering a concussion.

Xavi6

Fantastic to win in the circumstances, really inspired performance.