RWC Draw

Swiwi

Quint2010 wrote: »

I wonder if we look like we are going to top our group would the AB's throw theirs just to avoid playing France?

Most definitely not. Not in our mentality to throw a game. We would rather lose honourably to France, than throw a game to avoid them. Players want to walk with their heads held high, and if we deliberately threw a game, they might as well emigrate.

If NZ lose to Argentina, I trust Ireland wouldn't throw a game to avoid NZ!

liammur

Tox56 wrote: »

They drew with the All Blacks a few weeks ago with a shadow of their regular team (no Pocock, Genia, Horwill, O'Connor, Barnes, Alexander etc). They don't have the depth of some top teams, and this compounded the fact they lost most of their best players. Most of those I named above are pretty close to world class.

The last time the Lions played Australia was 2001 (they lost). You say they are nowhere the force they once were and cite the Lions' record against them, but the Lions have only played them twice in the last 23 years (the last series win being in 1989)..

Australia have only beaten the Lions once. They won't beat them in 2013 either, they have completely fallen away imo.

tolosenc

liammur wrote: »

No, they certainly weren't hot favs, new zealand were unbackable for that, but they did flatter to deceive in the tri-nations, possibly as the other 2 were looking at the bigger prize.

Australia and NZ had the same price on Paddy Power the week before the tournament. I'd backed them a year earlier at much longer odds and distinctly remember being impressed with my foresight.

jamiedav2011

tolosenc wrote: »

Australia and NZ had the same price on Paddy Power the week before the tournament. I'd backed them a year earlier at much longer odds and distinctly remember being impressed with my foresight.

They were in their ****e! NZ were almost odds on.

Digifriendly

liammur wrote: »

Australia have only beaten the Lions once. They won't beat them in 2013 either, they have completely fallen away imo.

Tend to agree with this. Australia were poor against Wales and were very lucky to win. They almost blew it against Italy, were thumped by France and should have been beaten by England.

cgpg5

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

They were in their ****e! NZ were almost odds on.

Agree here, they were virtually unbackable iirc

CatFromHue

I thought Australia had only hosted the Lions in a three test series twice, 1989 and 2001. All the other games/tours were hosted between Oz and NZ and Oz weren't good enough to host them on their own.

The Lions won 2-1 in 89 and lost 2-1 in 01.

Swiwi

CatFromHue wrote: »

I thought Australia had only hosted the Lions in a three test series twice, 1989 and 2001. All the other games/tours were hosted between Oz and NZ and Oz weren't good enough to host them on their own.

The Lions won 2-1 in 89 and lost 2-1 in 01.

Campese handed them the series on a plate in 1989. From memory (I was only a wee lad then), the games were close enough.

liammur

cgpg5 wrote: »

Agree here, they were virtually unbackable iirc

Ya, think about it, NZ at home, so hungry for it. I think they were as short as 1/2 at 1 stage!

ArmaniJeanss

The schedule (not released until next year I think) is crucial to us, I think its really important that France isn't group game four for us.

Because either way it work against us - gigantic effort leads to defeat and dejected players can't summon up the energy 6 days later and get hockeyed by NZ.
Or gigantic effort leads to famous win but takes so much out of us that we are flat in the quarter-final v Argentina.

ArmaniJeanss

Late August 2011, and it was 4/6 NZ, 10/3 Australia.

http://www.trendingbets.com/index.php/rugby-world-cup-preview/

No way were Aussies ever close to the same price as NZ, NZ were rock solid odds-on favs.

Possibly people are getting confused that maybe Australia were a similar price as NZ to win their group.

Tox56

liammur wrote: »

Australia have only beaten the Lions once. They won't beat them in 2013 either, they have completely fallen away imo.

It is highly unlikely that the Australia that toured here will be similar to the one that comes for the World Cup (or plays the Lions), and if it is the Aussies will have been extremely unlucky.

They lost captain after captain to injury, JOC has also been out for a while, and they still had a record of won 3 lost 1 to the Six Nations teams. Their performances weren't great and you could say they were lucky to win some of those, but the fact they managed to win those games at all given their injury list is an achievement in itself.

As I said earlier, they have less depth than other top rugby nations, and their injuries have been to some of their truly world class players. I don't think they have a vintage team but never underestimate them.

liammur

Tox56 wrote: »

It is highly unlikely that the Australia that toured here will be similar to the one that comes for the World Cup (or plays the Lions), and if it is the Aussies will have been extremely unlucky.

They lost captain after captain to injury, JOC has also been out for a while, and they still had a record of won 3 lost 1 to the Six Nations teams. Their performances weren't great and you could say they were lucky to win some of those, but the fact they managed to win those games at all given their injury list is an achievement in itself.

As I said earlier, they have less depth than other top rugby nations, and their injuries have been to some of their truly world class players. I don't think they have a vintage team but never underestimate them.

I definitely agree with you not to underestimate them, they can always pull out a huge performance, how they ever beat a vastly superior SA in the world cup last year is an example.

locum-motion

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They would have to enter the ENC


I presume Scotland would enter into Division 1A along with the likes of Belgium Georgia Portugal Romania Russia Spain

Most likely Scotland would play these games instead of touring in the summer and receiving tours in the Autumn

There is (so far!) no promotion/relegation between 6N and ENC.

It's more likely that Scotland would have a 3-team playoff league with the teams that otherwise would have been 'Europe 1' and 'Europe 2'.

I think that's what happened when Ireland had to qualify for 2003; they played Russia away (in Krasnoyarsk) and Georgia at home. Ireland and Georgia qualified.

tolosenc

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

They were in their ****e! NZ were almost odds on.

NZ 7/5
Aus 3/2

DEFTLEFTHAND

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What would happen if Scotland lose 3 games? When would they qualify for the next WC. Some sort of play off ?

I remember when we had to qualify for 99 it was a three team group, the top two qualified when the bottom team went into a repechage.

[Jackass]

England will without doubt be one of the favorites, other than that though, it's pretty impossible to predict what will be going on 2 and a half seasons from now. We mighn't even have Radge any more by that stage!

Klunk_NZ

NZ vs South Africa Semi will be intense.
As will the England/Australia vs France match.

Teferi

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

NZ vs South Africa Semi will be intense.

Lol.

Sure New Zealand are going to meet France in the Quarters and we all know New Zealands record against France in the WC. I mean, last time they needed a ref on their side to beat them like.

prospect

BOD for coach for the 2015 RWC.....

anyone?


anyone??

conf101

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I remember when we had to qualify for 99 it was a three team group, the top two qualified when the bottom team went into a repechage.

Just on that, isn't it more likely that Wales would be the ones to lose three matches? England & Oz would most likely be avourites against Wales and then Fiji in a World Cup could easily topple them.

Whereas Scotland would have to be beaten by most likely Japan as well as Samoa to be in a similar situation.

Klunk_NZ

Teferi wrote: »

Lol.

Sure New Zealand are going to meet France in the Quarters and we all know New Zealands record against France in the WC. I mean, last time they needed a ref on their side to beat them like.

Our record against France is like 4-2 at world cups, and well we are going to be playing Ireland in the quarters most likely.

thomond2006

NZ vs France quarter final in Cardiff, with Wayne Barnes as ref. It's on...

.ak

Thinking about it now... Wouldn't the ideal group to be in be NZ's group? I mean, we're almost always gonna be runner up in our pool... surely the best way to avoid them in the early knock out stages is to be in their pool.

ScissorPaperRock

.ak wrote: »

Thinking about it now... Wouldn't the ideal group to be in be NZ's group? I mean, we're almost always gonna be runner up in our pool... surely the best way to avoid them in the early knock out stages is to be in their pool.

Had been thinking that myself!

Higher

.ak wrote: »

Thinking about it now... Wouldn't the ideal group to be in be NZ's group? I mean, we're almost always gonna be runner up in our pool... surely the best way to avoid them in the early knock out stages is to be in their pool.

It's like a catch 22 though as we'd still have to play France in the QF. So essentially if we want to get to the semis we would still have to beat France to progress!

liammur

.ak wrote: »

Thinking about it now... Wouldn't the ideal group to be in be NZ's group? I mean, we're almost always gonna be runner up in our pool... surely the best way to avoid them in the early knock out stages is to be in their pool.

We simply have to improve in W Cups. Q-final is the best we've ever done, this is not good enough, so regardless of groups, regardless of coach, opposition,etc we'll be more than likely be leaving at the q-final stage once again.

Higher

liammur wrote: »

We simply have to improve in W Cups. Q-final is the best we've ever done, this is not good enough, so regardless of groups, regardless of coach, opposition,etc we'll be more than likely be leaving at the q-final stage once again.

Without doubt, 2011 was our best chance.

Wales in the QF, France in the SF we could have gotten to the final.

:mad: I WILL NEVER forgive Kidney for starting ROG and Murray in that game. Both were absolutely dreadful. ROG put in one of his worst displays for Ireland since England 2009. Murray was at the time woefully inexperienced and his poor decision making and general slowness cost us attacking opportunity after attacking opportunity. I have no doubt that had Sexton started that game alongside Reddan the result would have been very different. We beat Australia with Reddan and Sexton putting in incredible performances and then revert to Murray and O'Gara for Wales and both play like drains. We will never get an easier route to the final again.

Sorry I just need to get that out of my system.

Fits Morris

Australia must seriously regret scoring that try at the end of Saturday's match against Wales. They have ensured an extremely tough passage to the quarter-finals for themselves, given that they will likely have to play Wales in Cardiff.

cgpg5

Fits Morris wrote: »

Australia must seriously regret scoring that try at the end of Saturday's match against Wales. They have ensured an extremely tough passage to the quarter-finals for themselves, given that they will likely have to play Wales in Cardiff.

I know it's early days but wouldn't surprise me if they failed to qualify.

I just hope Fiji play like 2007, not 2011!

liammur

Higher wrote: »

Without doubt, 2011 was our best chance.

Wales in the QF, France in the SF we could have gotten to the final.

:mad: I WILL NEVER forgive Kidney for starting ROG and Murray in that game. Both were absolutely dreadful. ROG put in one of his worst displays for Ireland since England 2009. Murray was at the time woefully inexperienced and his poor decision making and general slowness cost us attacking opportunity after attacking opportunity. I have no doubt that had Sexton started that game alongside Reddan the result would have been very different. We beat Australia with Reddan and Sexton putting in incredible performances and then revert to Murray and O'Gara for Wales and both play like drains. We will never get an easier route to the final again.

Sorry I just need to get that out of my system.

Hold on - Kidney made a huge mistake playing ROG. No doubt about it. But, he did what he thought was best, we have to move on. It certainly was a glorious chance squandered, to make the semi, but France proved in the final they were strong.

Hagz

Hilarious.
http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8307724,00.html

cgpg5

Hagz wrote: »

Hilarious.
http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8307724,00.html

So the "hosts" may actually have to play an away game? I've seen it all

Almost as bad as France getting the best team in the world, in their home world cup at a completely neutral venue

Podge_irl

How many world cups has the MS hosted games for. I know it's a great stadium but it's a bit farcical.

Quint2010

Podge_irl wrote: »

How many world cups has the MS hosted games for. I know it's a great stadium but it's a bit farcical.

Well it only opened in 1999 and obviously hosted games that year and also in 2007. I think the Arms Park hosted games in 1991.

TheLastLazyGun

I read in the paper today that the Welsh are trying to get their match with England played at the Millennium Stadium so they can have home advantage, despite the fact that England are supposed to be the host nation.

I do not even know why the Millennium Stadium is even a venue for this tournament when it is England, not Wales, which is supposed to be the host nation (if I remember rightly, the Celtic nations also somehow managed to wangle it so that they got to host matches at the last World Cup, even though France were supposed to be the hosts). I think it's wrong. But my blood boiled this morning when I read that the Welsh are now trying to get their match with England played at the Millennium Stadium.

This is just cheating, it's dirty and it's nasty. As the host nation England should play all of their matches at Twickenham. I hope that England will continue to tell the Welsh to get stuffed, as they are doing at the moment.

And if the England rugby bosses meekly surrender to the crazy Welsh demands and have England's match with Wales played at the Millennium Stadium then I fully expect England's fans to boycott the tournament.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2242555/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Wales-want-play-England-Cardiff.html

totallegend

cgpg5 wrote: »

So the "hosts" may actually have to play an away game? I've seen it all

Almost as bad as France getting the best team in the world, in their home world cup at a completely neutral venue

Well in that instance, France only ended up "away" because the Argies tore up the script and won the group. France should have had a nice cosy home game against the Scots.

Worked out ok in the end though...

Cosmo Kramer

Fits Morris wrote: »

Australia must seriously regret scoring that try at the end of Saturday's match against Wales. They have ensured an extremely tough passage to the quarter-finals for themselves, given that they will likely have to play Wales in Cardiff.

If they hadn't scored and the groups had gone the same way they'd have got an Argentina team coming in off the back off a four year run of Rugby Championship appearances - so I don't think it would have made a lot of difference either way.

CIARAN_BOYLE

TheLastLazyGun wrote: »

And if the England rugby bosses meekly surrender to the crazy Welsh demands and have England's match with Wales played at the Millennium Stadium then I fully expect England's fans to boycott the tournament.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2242555/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Wales-want-play-England-Cardiff.html

England didn't have enough votes to get the RWC themselves so promised Wales welsh group games and a QF in return for votes.

Now the RFU want to back out on that promise.

At least thats the Welsh view of things to show some balance.

cgpg5

totallegend wrote: »

Well in that instance, France only ended up "away" because the Argies tore up the script and won the group. France should have had a nice cosy home game against the Scots.

Worked out ok in the end though...

Indeed but why Cardiff? Surely as punishment, for want of a better word, for not winning the group, they could have taken them out of Stade-de-France where they play all their games and have it on in Lens or Bordeaux or somewhere. I'm sure this argument was done to death at the time but it was a tad farcical

Surely England has enough stadiums to host, without Wales having a couple of games, never mind one actually against England!

Could you imagine Brazil having to play Chile, for example, in a world cup group game in 2014 in Santiago? Not trying to bring up a soccer v Rugby debate here, but surely it's a valid comparison- although in fairness the Millenium Stadium is a cracking stadium to be fair unlike Chile's :P

EDIT- just saw previous post about England needing Wales' vote

postitnote

Perhaps a timely reminder that in 1999 England (not the host nation) played all but 1 of their matches in Twickenham. Going by the above logic, England were dirty, nasty cheats. for 80% of that tourney anyway.

I'd imagine the public way in which this was done was rather tongue in cheek and perhaps we shouldn't get ourselves particularly worked up over this. Of course, reading the Daily Mail can get us all worked up at times.

ArmaniJeanss

TheLastLazyGun wrote: »

I read in the paper today that the Welsh are trying to get their match with England played at the Millennium Stadium so they can have home advantage, despite the fact that England are supposed to be the host nation.

I do not even know why the Millennium Stadium is even a venue for this tournament when it is England, not Wales, which is supposed to be the host nation (if I remember rightly, the Celtic nations also somehow managed to wangle it so that they got to host matches at the last World Cup, even though France were supposed to be the hosts). I think it's wrong. But my blood boiled this morning when I read that the Welsh are now trying to get their match with England played at the Millennium Stadium.

This is just cheating, it's dirty and it's nasty. As the host nation England should play all of their matches at Twickenham. I hope that England will continue to tell the Welsh to get stuffed, as they are doing at the moment.

And if the England rugby bosses meekly surrender to the crazy Welsh demands and have England's match with Wales played at the Millennium Stadium then I fully expect England's fans to boycott the tournament.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2242555/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Wales-want-play-England-Cardiff.html

Wales are perfectly entitled to ask for this game at the Millenium as the agreement is that 7/8 games will be played there. (I don't see anything 'dirty', 'nasty' or 'cheating' about this, not any indication that the Welsh are 'demanding' it.)

The RFU/organisers are equally entitled to tell them to fcuk off re this particular game, which I'm sure will be the outcome.
Wales will get their other 3 group games at home, plus the A2B1 quarter, and another few nice group games, inc possibly an Ireland one. Everybody happy.

cgpg5

So essentially it's an England/Wales hosted world cup?

ArmaniJeanss

cgpg5 wrote: »

So essentially it's an England/Wales hosted world cup?

I think it'll go into the books officially as England 2015.

As an aside, this should show up the idea that Ireland could successfully win a solo World Cup bid. If superpowers like England, and France (2007) had to give up loads of games to get votes then Ireland would probably have to give up entire groups and half the knockout games in return for votes.

totallegend

cgpg5 wrote: »

Indeed but why Cardiff? Surely as punishment, for want of a better word, for not winning the group, they could have taken them out of Stade-de-France where they play all their games and have it on in Lens or Bordeaux or somewhere. I'm sure this argument was done to death at the time but it was a tad farcical

The venues would have been decided years in advance. Most likely the Welsh gave their vote in exchange for being guaranteed an attractive QF, e.g. the one featuring the All Blacks. Les Frogs probably never considered the possibility that it would be them ending up in Cardiff.

[Jackass]

Podge_irl wrote: »

How many world cups has the MS hosted games for. I know it's a great stadium but it's a bit farcical.

As well as Heineken Cup finals...before we were awarded the final for this season, Cardiff had hosted six finals to Dublins one...

(London 4, Paris 2, Edinburgh 2, Bordeaux 1...we were on a par with Bordeaux for HEC final hosting...)

totallegend

[Jackass] wrote: »

As well as Heineken Cup finals...before we were awarded the final for this season, Cardiff had hosted six finals to Dublins one...

Pedantic fact-checker alert.

Dublin hosted the 1999 and 2003 finals. Still bitter that the latter didn't involve Leinster, but by god the 1999 final was a great day out.

[Jackass]

Ah true, forgot about 1999!! I could be harsh and say that wasn't a proper Heineken Cup though :pac:

overshoot

still had to be done the hard way,;) 3 games against toulouse, then stade francais then the challenge cup winners from 98 (who has since gone to the french doldrums)... who needed england:pac:

Swiwi

TheLastLazyGun wrote: »

I read in the paper today that the Welsh are trying to get their match with England played at the Millennium Stadium so they can have home advantage, despite the fact that England are supposed to be the host nation.

I do not even know why the Millennium Stadium is even a venue for this tournament when it is England, not Wales, which is supposed to be the host nation (if I remember rightly, the Celtic nations also somehow managed to wangle it so that they got to host matches at the last World Cup, even though France were supposed to be the hosts). I think it's wrong. But my blood boiled this morning when I read that the Welsh are now trying to get their match with England played at the Millennium Stadium.

This is just cheating, it's dirty and it's nasty. As the host nation England should play all of their matches at Twickenham. I hope that England will continue to tell the Welsh to get stuffed, as they are doing at the moment.

And if the England rugby bosses meekly surrender to the crazy Welsh demands and have England's match with Wales played at the Millennium Stadium then I fully expect England's fans to boycott the tournament.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2242555/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Wales-want-play-England-Cardiff.html

There has never been a pure RWC in the Lions nations. Politics always comes into play. The worst example was 1991 where the games were spread all over the place. As SA/France/Aussie/NZ have shown, one country one world cup works best. There is no way the english will let themselves play wales at cardiff. Wales should get aussie though....fat lot of good that has done them in recent times though.