Ring circuit questions

meath4sam

In a newly build house the other day which had a ring circuit in kitchen and ring for upstairs and radial for down stairs, kitchen 6 sockets upstairs 8 downstairs 8 sockets. Rings on 32 a mcb and radial 20amcbs. Are ring acceptable in houses I thought they were no longer allowed.

Bruthal

meath4sam wrote: »

In a newly build house the other day which had a ring circuit in kitchen and ring for upstairs and radial for down stairs, kitchen 6 sockets upstairs 8 downstairs 8 sockets. Rings on 32 a mcb and radial 20amcbs. Are ring acceptable in houses I thought they were no longer allowed.

Not allowed in kitchens now.

meath4sam

And all radial should be on 20amps??

Bruthal

meath4sam wrote: »

And all radial should be on 20amps??

Yes 20 amp for radials.

Seanbass

robbie7730 wrote: »

Not allowed in kitchens now.

god, what's next. why aren't they allowed in kitchens any more?

meercat

robbie7730 wrote: »

Not allowed in kitchens now.

they have rescinded this now(according to my inspector)

2011

meercat wrote: »

they have rescinded this now(according to my inspector)

Who has? The ETCI?

meercat

2011 wrote: »

Who has? The ETCI?

i assume its the etci
didnt go into too much detail with him though as i never do ring circuits in kitchens

M cebee

there would be an amendment on the website if they have?
I think the rules on domestic ring ccts are fine the way they are,prob with the addition of utility rooms imo

meercat

M cebee wrote: »

there would be an amendment on the website if they have?
I think the rules on domestic ring ccts are fine the way they are,prob with the addition of utility rooms imo

cant find anything in writing
will ring him during the week to clarify and update

2011

meercat wrote: »

i assume its the etci
didnt go into too much detail with him though as i never do ring circuits in kitchens

I would be surprised if the ETCI have changed this (nobody else has the authority to).

The 4th (latest edition) of ET101:2008 contains the applicable rules.
Amendments to the regulations can be found on a link from the ETCI website on this page and I do not see this listed.

The inspector may have been referring to the certification of legacy work.

M cebee

I can't see it happening

M cebee

I can't see it happening

Bruthal

meercat wrote: »

they have rescinded this now(according to my inspector)

Have they? It would`t affect me much anyway, as I never use them on the rare occasion I might be doing any house wiring.

I don`t think they would be well suited to having isolators of single socket points either.

Bruthal

Seanbass wrote: »

god, what's next. why aren't they allowed in kitchens any more?

Well I would`t be able to put forward what their thinking was on it.

But a ring main, and an isolator for a single socket point, would`t go well together anyway, so that may be one aspect.

There are a few other problems with ring circuits. I never used them in domestic wiring at all.

frankmul

I think the rule regarding ring circuits not allowed in kitchen was in annex 52c. That annex was labeled normative means it had to be done. They changed the title to informative meaning for guidance. It was something like that.

meath4sam

Thanks for replys, so kitchen in question has a ring circuit with extract fridge washing and dishwasher spurred off it via dp switch on 32amp mcb,I understand a ring can be on a 32amp mcb but when u spur off u have a radial with 32 amp mcb protecting it. This can't be rite can it?

M cebee

meath4sam wrote: »

Thanks for replys, so kitchen in question has a ring circuit with extract fridge washing and dishwasher spurred off it via dp switch on 32amp mcb,I understand a ring can be on a 32amp mcb but when u spur off u have a radial with 32 amp mcb protecting it. This can't be rite can it?

no
unfused spurs not allowed now either
it's not going to cause a problem -if they're switching single sockets
but you have to fuse where you branch off

meath4sam

M cebee wrote: »

no
unfused spurs not allowed now either
it's not going to cause a problem -if they're switching single sockets
but you have to fuse where you branch off

So is a fused switched spur to be used in rings and radials now or just ring to scale down from 32 to 13 amp protection.

meath4sam

All a bit confusing etci need to make things a bit more clear.

Bruthal

meath4sam wrote: »

I understand a ring can be on a 32amp mcb but when u spur off u have a radial with 32 amp mcb protecting it. This can't be rite can it?

That`s why I was saying ring mains and isolator controlled sockets don t work out well.

M cebee

frankmul wrote: »

I think the rule regarding ring circuits not allowed in kitchen was in annex 52c. That annex was labeled normative means it had to be done. They changed the title to informative meaning for guidance. It was something like that.

yes i see that now
page 308annex 55a
changed from normative to informative
by amendment

the front of the rules describes normative as essential info and informative as general info
-so what does that mean then?

bertie 56

Hi everybody,

Any news since 2012 ?

Ring circuits are allowed in kitchen or not ?

Thanks

Sir Arthur Daley

Ring circuits are no longer permitted in kitchens.

adrian92

Despite the regs I have always thought that parallel cables an extremely bad idea. Could have an open circuit on one and no way of knowing- the remaining in-circuit cables carrying all the load. I do not know but hope the regs have done away with ring circuits