Are you a fan of 50 shades of Grey?

supackofidiots

brilliantboy wrote: »

garbage like A Song of Ice and Fire .

oh God.

Face meet Palm.

Best of luck in your Applied Leaving Cert Brilliant Boy.

ViveLaVie

brilliantboy wrote: »

Jesus, the elitism on display in this thread is something else.
No doubt many of the people who pan 50 Shades etc. for not having 'literary merit' (which is nothing more than a buzzword created for parroting in discussions like this) regularly read garbage like A Song of Ice and Fire and Robert Jordan.
At least 50 Shades of Grey deals with real-world relationships and themes (however peculiar), and isn't simply an infantile escape into a world of dragons, and magic, and whatever other perversion the author fancies.
EL James is to be respected greatly for turning her passion into a successful enterprise, despite all the snide and hurtful remarks she must have gotten along the way.
Her work is getting people who never even thought of picking up a book before interested in reading, and thankfully a few bitter comments from pseudo-intellectuals on an internet forum isn't going to be enough to undo that.

Only someone who hasn't a clue about 'literary merit' would refer to fantasy as a genre as infantile. Good fantasy seeks to critique reality. E.L. James' writing is cliched, one dimensional and an insult to erotic literature. There is very little actual plot and the character development is appalling. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good.

brilliantboy

I see I hit on a few nerves, I suspected I would.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Tell me, what's infantile about well written books with multi-dimensional characters, timeless themes and byzantine plots? I'm guessing you've never actually read A Song of Ice and Fire. Your use of the word 'perversion' here is quite ironic, as is your use of 'pseudo-intellectual'. Pot ,meet kettle

Nothing, nothing whatsoever. What's infantile is thinking that the mere presence or absence of these things is what determines good literature from bad.
It's the height of hypocrisy to criticize someones reading for not having 'literary merit' when your own has precisely the same amount, not that there's anything wrong with reading for this type of vapid enjoyment of course. I'm sure you're not also in the habit of insulting peoples intelligence when they don't watch the same TV shows, listen to the same music, or play the same video games as you.
The themes explored in fantasy are rarely analogous to the real world because the circumstances of the actors and the environment is so different and deus ex machinas abound.
Sex too is a fairly timeless theme last I checked btw, and the kind of perversions depicted in 50 Shades are relatively vanilla compared to the rape, torture and general misogyny widespread in the ASOIAF universe.
And 'Byzantine plots'. Is that another way of saying unwieldy, convoluted plots that plod along for a few decades until the author dies or simply gets bored and moves on to new endeavours?
Have I read all 5, and counting, volumes of ASOIAF? No
But I did read about as much of Game of Thrones as I could before throwing up. It's the same tripe full of well-worn clichés we've seen a dozen times in various media; ancient evil separated from civilization by some artificial construct, feudal lords, epic battles, lawlessness and blood and gore galore, and regular helpings of sex to titillate the teenage boys. Not to mention the nauseating archaisms that litter the work.
I think George Martin is a distinctly average writer, but then he doesn't need to be Fitzgerald to reach his audience, nor does EL James.

jazz101 wrote: »

Fifty Shades essentially is ****e drawn from more ****e, it's Twilight being wrung for every last cent. Why there's a market for this type of thing I'll never know

I really don't see how it's 'being wrung for every last cent'. Like you mentioned, it originated as Twilight fanfiction so presumably the woman would have been writing it even if she never had a hope of making a cent from it. But now that she's turned her hobby into a nice profit, the snakes are out and spitting vitriol.
But it's funny you bring up that point because that's exactly how I feel about the fantasy genre as a whole, it's Tolkien (and others) being wrung for every last cent. Isn't it funny how fantasy epics are always works in progress? "Here, buy this and I'll tell you the next part of the story in a few years"

supackofidiots wrote: »

oh God.

Face meet Palm.

Best of luck in your Applied Leaving Cert Brilliant Boy.

Face palm, there's a blast from the past. I remember when that was a big thing on the internet.
I believe I was doing my Leaving Cert at the time.

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Only someone who hasn't a clue about 'literary merit' would refer to fantasy as a genre as infantile. Good fantasy seeks to critique reality. E.L. James' writing is cliched, one dimensional and an insult to erotic literature. There is very little actual plot and the character development is appalling. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good.

I don't believe I said any such thing. There's nothing wrong with the genre inherently, but I think state it's currently in is appalling.
George R Martin is a long way from Tolkien, Peake, Dunsany, Wolfe etc.
In any case, that's not the issue here. The issue is whether everything one reads must have 'literary merit', and must we insult those who read what is, according to us, less meritorious material? I say no, let people read whatever they want, 50 Shades, Twilight, ASOIAF. Is it so difficult to just move on when you see a thread discussing a book you don't like?

judgefudge

In fairness the title of the thread is "are you a fan of 50 shades of Grey?"

It's kind of inviting people to air their opinions on the book. I don't see how someone saying they didn't enjoy the book and don't understand why it is so popular is "elitism"?

--Kaiser--

brilliantboy wrote: »

Nothing, nothing whatsoever. What's infantile is thinking that the mere presence or absence of these things is what determines good literature from bad.
It's the height of hypocrisy to criticize someones reading for not having 'literary merit' when your own has precisely the same amount, not that there's anything wrong with reading for this type of vapid enjoyment of course. I'm sure you're not also in the habit of insulting peoples intelligence when they don't watch the same TV shows, listen to the same music, or play the same video games as you.
The themes explored in fantasy are rarely analogous to the real world because the circumstances of the actors and the environment is so different and deus ex machinas abound.
Sex too is a fairly timeless theme last I checked btw, and the kind of perversions depicted in 50 Shades are relatively vanilla compared to the rape, torture and general misogyny widespread in the ASOIAF universe.
And 'Byzantine plots'. Is that another way of saying unwieldy, convoluted plots that plod along for a few decades until the author dies or simply gets bored and moves on to new endeavours?
Have I read all 5, and counting, volumes of ASOIAF? No
But I did read about as much of Game of Thrones as I could before throwing up. It's the same tripe full of well-worn clichés we've seen a dozen times in various media; ancient evil separated from civilization by some artificial construct, feudal lords, epic battles, lawlessness and blood and gore galore, and regular helpings of sex to titillate the teenage boys. Not to mention the nauseating archaisms that litter the work.
I think George Martin is a distinctly average writer, but then he doesn't need to be Fitzgerald to reach his audience, nor does EL James.

So we agree, nothing infantile about A Song of Ice and Fire. Quite a roundabout way of saying though

Queen-Mise

brilliantboy wrote: »

The issue is whether everything one reads must have 'literary merit', and must we insult those who read what is, according to us, less meritorious material? I say no, let people read whatever they want, 50 Shades, Twilight, ASOIAF. Is it so difficult to just move on when you see a thread discussing a book you don't like?

I like you :D:D:D


And I am not in the slightest bit jealous at how well you put your arguments across there:rolleyes: You have just dealt with one of my pet hates brilliantly.

danslevent

I read the first book and got half way through the second one before my "inner goddess" gave up. :P

I think the book is great in the sense that people that would not normally read are reading, which is always good. It has also helped to improve peoples sex lives and become more open.

In a literary sense, I think it is appalling. The character, Christian Grey, is so unbelievable. He is a gorgeous billionaire (come on) that is Fluent in French and can also sail and pilot a plane. It is a character you would imagine a twelve year old girl making up. The book is also very disappointing in the erotic sense. At first I found it engaging but soon found myself skipping over the repetitive sex scenes, that all ended with her becoming "Undone in his words".

I am glad I read it, I like seeing the hype about certain books, but it really makes me sad that some amazingly written books can be overlooked and THIS has out sold them.

brilliantboy

danslevent wrote: »

a gorgeous billionaire (come on) that is Fluent in French and can also sail and pilot a plane. It is a character you would imagine a twelve year old girl making up.

You've just described Jay Gatsby

hponboard

DEPENDS ON IF YOUR A MAN OR WOMAN,
WOULD YOU THINK MANY MEN READ THESE BOOKS

clairefontaine

What is all the hullabaloo about? It's not as if there hasn't been plenty of other female erotica around bdsm written? How exactly did this one make it to the Tesco aisle?

PurpleBee

I don't see anyone here insulting people who read those books, over sensitivity perhaps brilliantboy