Season 3 - Episode 8. Made to suffer

Grimebox

Jason Todd wrote: »

By the way, does anyone know how exactly the Guv knew who Daryl was? As far as I knew, the Guv was only aware that Merle's brother was part of the prison camp. When Daryl was captured did he say who he was? Did he ask to see Merle? Is it just a little pothole? Am I mental? :D

Is this too many questions?

No you're not mental. A lot of this episode made no sense to me

PirateShampoo

Personally I think Merle is in on it, but in the end will sacrifice himself to save his brother from The Guv.

PhiloCypher

giggii wrote: »

When I first saw that David Morrissey had been cast I had serious doubts. He just looked too handsome and clean-cut in comparison to the Governor we'd all gotten to know on the comics... By the third episode I saw how clearly mistaken I'd been with my initial reaction! Phenomenal actor, they really couldn't have picked anyone to do the job better imo. the ability to switch from charm and charisma to callous brutality in the blink of an eye (too soon.../ :P) makes him such a compelling character. I'll be sorry to see the back of him (which is inevitably going to happen by the end of the season, I can't see them drawing it out too much more tbh...), he's definitely a part of what's made this series as good as it is!!

Thing is I think casting such an accomplished actor left them in a pickle as the production pressed forward, what could have been(and what was in the comics) a cut n dried villian ends up quasi sympathetic , this however has had a knock on effect of making Michonne's Vendetta against him seem kinda ridiculous. The writers/producers clearly failed to anticipate the butterfly effect that altering one characters comic storyline would have on another if not also amended .

steve_r

Jason Todd wrote: »

By the way, does anyone know how exactly the Guv knew who Daryl was? As far as I knew, the Guv was only aware that Merle's brother was part of the prison camp. When Daryl was captured did he say who he was? Did he ask to see Merle? Is it just a little pothole? Am I mental? :D

Is this too many questions?

Yeah, I thought this too. Not a huge jump though to assume that Merle told him about his brother etc.

I can't make up my mind whether he let himself be captured or not. Just can't believe he's the kind of guy who would get taken alive.

giggii

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Thing is I think casting such an accomplished actor left them in a pickle as the production pressed forward, what could have been(and what was in the comics) a cut n dried villian ends up quasi sympathetic , this however has had a knock on effect of making Michonne's Vendetta against him seem kinda ridiculous. The writers/producers clearly failed to anticipate the butterfly effect that altering one characters comic storyline would have on another if not also amended .

I didn't think Michonne's Vendetta against him was that ridiculous at all... He did just send a group of his henchmen to follow her into the forest and kill her. Plus she needed something to expose him to make Andrea realise the error of her ways... She had motive. Plus I think we needed Michonne to have a showdown with the Governor at one stage or another, he had to realise that Merle wasn't true to his word when he said he finished her off... I think it helped in wrapping up the first half of the season nicely and set up for what's gonna go down in February. We neeeded the Governor to have some serious motive to take out Rick and Co., and we needed something as a catalyst to bring about a Dixon family reunion, and Michonne vs the Governor did just that, in killing the most important thing to the Governor and exposing his right hand man as a traitor (or keeping important things from him at the very least...) in one scene...

Although I do get what you mean, if they kept the Michonne comic book reason for her attack on the Governor it would have worked a lot better... I still thought it worked though!

fasttalkerchat

Finally got to see this weeks episode. It was great watching it in HD on the TV but it was a struggle to wait so long!
I think that Daryll got caught on purpose and possibly he's not alone.
Christmas is gonna be torture!

pixelburp

Strong half-season ender, certainly went out with a bang. Despite the action though, there were some pretty good character beats throughout the story: I never thought I'd say this but Carl has really stepped up to the plate & while the Woodbury stuff was the main focus both of the episode and this thread, I found the prison scenes to be just as effective. Carl's confident, assured & leads from the front; his little pause outside the boiler room a neat little touch too. It's probably just as well he's growing, 'cos his Da still clearly has some screws loose.

The scene in the prison with the inmate perving on Hershel's daughter was just weird though; came out of nowhere really - I presume it's there to set up another bit of internal strife for the camp later on, but it seemed a bit sudden after being a background character for so long. Says a lot about how underwritten some of the cast are when we're at the mid-point of season 3 and I'm still not sure of the names of Hershel's younger daughter, Mr. moustache & the black prisoner.

Too early to make any judgements about the new arrivals to the prison; I know nothing of this Tyresse fellow from the comics, so no idea what to expect. His companions even less so; they seemed fairly interchangeable. I do find it hilarious the show shoots its token black cast-member, only to quickly replace him. Though we're up to two African Americans now, heady days! And Tyresse's female friend is quite easy on the eyes so absolutely not complaints from this shallow viewer

TheUsual

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Christmas is gonna be torture!

True.
Mid-season breaks are annoying.

fasttalkerchat

TheUsual wrote: »

True.
Mid-season breaks are annoying.

Mid-week breaks are a struggle for me. I have a terrible memory for things like tv shows. I think I'll take a day to re-watch the season before the start of the next half.

username123

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Mid-week breaks are a struggle for me. I have a terrible memory for things like tv shows. I think I'll take a day to re-watch the season before the start of the next half.

Agree. Im currently re-watching season 1 and 2 and Im amazed at how much Id forgotten!!

ryoishin

I could be mistaken here...... but did nt Ricks hallucination cause the death of the black prisoner.

His actions or lack of are bringing about deaths.

splendid101

I'm a bit of a dope because I thought Tyrese was Rick's buddy with the walkie talkie....oops. Kept saying, "where's his son?"

Jason Todd

ryoishin wrote: »

I could be mistaken here...... but did nt Ricks hallucination cause the death of the black prisoner.

His actions or lack of are bringing about deaths.

I thought that too actually. The whole time Rick was looking at him, the guy was just firing away with a shotgun until Oscar was hit and then Rick snapped out of it and shot him back. There should be repercussions from it in the next episode. If not, I'll find that very strange.

FlyingIrishMan

ryoishin wrote: »

I could be mistaken here...... but did nt Ricks hallucination cause the death of the black prisoner.

His actions or lack of are bringing about deaths.

No, Oscar's death was caused by the introduction of Tyrese

Syferus

It's amazing how good the show has became this season, and indeed the latter part of last season. It's delivering every bit of promise it had in the beginning.

I'm not someone who was as gung ho as some of the boo boys back in season one and early season two but season three so far has mixed action, terror and character excellently.

The only slight issue I'd have with the mid-season finale is that Michonne didn't tell Andrea what happened but as that'd have likely resulted in the Governor's death in the long run it makes things infinitely more interesting. I think the eight episode block was a huge success and hopefully this 16 episode season format will continue as we're getting four episodes above what a usual cable show produces a season and the creators seem well able to put that extra time to good use.

Jikashi

pixelburp wrote: »

Too early to make any judgements about the new arrivals to the prison; I know nothing of this Tyresse fellow from the comics, so no idea what to expect. His companions even less so; they seemed fairly interchangeable.

The comic counterparts of Tyreese's group belonged to the original Atlanta camp with Glenn Dale Andrea et al. Only character of real significance was Tyreese, whose role was pretty much split between T-Dog and Daryl, both of whom are TV-only, as Rick's lancers

Frisbee

Quality episode. I knew they had Daryl at the end as it made sense and also the black dude was holding his crossbow when the Governor was talking. Think it shows how far he's come that he was willing to side with Rick over Merle when they were trying to get out.

The scene with Carol and the other inmate who is white so of course is still alive was brilliant.

Carl's getting shít done, when they got back to the 'safe area' I was like "Get in the fúcking cell block and lock these motherfúckers away from you!". And then he actually went and did it.

However as soon as my episode ended the 'Next season on the Walking Dead' part kicked in and the very first scene DON'T READ IF YOU GOT AWAY WITHOUT HAVING TO SEE IT!!! Spoiler:

completely gave away the fact that Rick and Michonne rescue Merle and Daryl and exactly how they do it. And then it even goes as far as to show Daryl running through the woods and Glenn screaming at Rick 'WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING HERE!', presumably talking about Merle.

Sofiztikated

I'm not too sure how I feel about that episode.

I think the Guv is planting Merle as an insider in the Ricktatorship. Again, I think David Morrissey played a brilliant role. Flipping from sensitive to psycho so easily, and not having it jar is a testament to his skill. A different actor could have really ****ed it, and ruined the moment.

Andrea again. Are they doing it on purpose now? Overwhelming evidence of the Guv being shady, and still it's "here, walk right into my vagina." Even at the end, with the Merle/Darryl trial, there's not outrage in her reaction. It looks like she's thinking, "oh, he's overreacting a bit, I wonder does he want to get his brown wings tonight."

I'm sorry, I still can't warm to Michonne. We've just gotten rid of Carl's wandering off, and **** happening, now it's her.

Oh look, there's a strong black man, and just like that the other black man goes down. Are there quotas to fill? I never once heard him actually say his name was Oscar.

I always wondered what bearded prisoner did to land himself in prison. I know he said drugs, but he does have that touch of a rapist about him.

Penn

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Even at the end, with the Merle/Darryl trial, there's not outrage in her reaction. It looks like she's thinking, "oh, he's overreacting a bit, I wonder does he want to get his brown wings tonight."

Just on this point, if I remember correctly there was only one shot of her reaction to the Daryl/Merle thing which was shock that it was Daryl (meaning it was likely Rick leading the group which attacked Woodbury and who she was shooting at). Pretty understandable reaction for the small amount of reaction time she had.

I also don't think Merle is going undercover. Merle said Michonne was dead, and because he was lying, Michonne killed his daughter, destroyed one of his eyes and meant Andrea now knows about the walker heads. I think going up against Daryl would be the Governor's way of either punishing Merle, or testing his loyalty. If Merle is willing to kill Daryl, maybe the Governor could start trusting him again (though probably wouldn't be his right hand man any more (because he doesn't have a right hand))

Jason Todd

Penn wrote: »

Just on this point, if I remember correctly there was only one shot of her reaction to the Daryl/Merle thing which was shock that it was Daryl (meaning it was likely Rick leading the group which attacked Woodbury and who she was shooting at). Pretty understandable reaction for the small amount of reaction time she had.

I also don't think Merle is going undercover. Merle said Michonne was dead, and because he was lying, Michonne killed his daughter, destroyed one of his eyes and meant Andrea now knows about the walker heads. I think going up against Daryl would be the Governor's way of either punishing Merle, or testing his loyalty. If Merle is willing to kill Daryl, maybe the Governor could start trusting him again (though probably wouldn't be his right hand man any more (because he doesn't have a right hand))

Totally agree. ^^^

The Merle / Daryl thing could go one of 3 ways possibly:

1) Governor says to Merle; kill Daryl and all is forgiven (most likely imo)

2) Fight to the death and the winner gains his freedom (this one is doubtful)

3) Both Dixons are set up for a public execution; hanging or decapitation etc

ryoishin

Hmmmmm a way into the prison that the group did nt know about. Seems like a way the Woodbury crowd could get in while the prison group are distracted.

username123

Jason Todd wrote: »

Totally agree. ^^^
3) Both Dixons are set up for a public execution; hanging or decapitation etc

This. There is no way Merle is a plant, The Guv didnt trust him anyway and Merle is a total snake in the grass - he would never work as a plant in the prison group, sure he beat T Dog resulting in losing his hand, and beat Glen and tried to kill him. Theyd never trust him with anything - its not like that have some grand plans they are hiding, they are just trying to survive.

Sofiztikated

Penn wrote: »

Just on this point, if I remember correctly there was only one shot of her reaction to the Daryl/Merle thing which was shock that it was Daryl (meaning it was likely Rick leading the group which attacked Woodbury and who she was shooting at). Pretty understandable reaction for the small amount of reaction time she had.

I also don't think Merle is going undercover. Merle said Michonne was dead, and because he was lying, Michonne killed his daughter, destroyed one of his eyes and meant Andrea now knows about the walker heads. I think going up against Daryl would be the Governor's way of either punishing Merle, or testing his loyalty. If Merle is willing to kill Daryl, maybe the Governor could start trusting him again (though probably wouldn't be his right hand man any more (because he doesn't have a right hand))

I'll need to watch it again, but didn't her reaction shot come before the Darryl unveiling, after the Guv denounced Merle as the traitor?

It's possibly just my complete dislike of her that's skewing my perception, but I can't abide her.

ryoishin wrote: »

Hmmmmm a way into the prison that the group did nt know about. Seems like a way the Woodbury crowd could get in while the prison group are distracted.

How in the hell did Rick miss that glaringly big hole on one of his 3 trips around the perimeter.

username123 wrote: »

This. There is no way Merle is a plant, The Guv didnt trust him anyway and Merle is a total snake in the grass - he would never work as a plant in the prison group, sure he beat T Dog resulting in losing his hand, and beat Glen and tried to kill him. Theyd never trust him with anything - its not like that have some grand plans they are hiding, they are just trying to survive.

I'm guessing release Merle and Darryl into the hot zone, they make their way back to the prison. Darryl talks Rick into letting Merle stay. Tension tension tension, Merle runs to the Guv and tells him whos who and whats what about the prison. Merle gets kicked out by the Guv once he has what he needs, the prison group don't want him back, Darryl is torn and either goes with Merle or arrow to the knee...em, skull.

The Guv doesn't know what their grand plans are, or about their lack of grand plans. As far as he's concerned, they're a threat. He knows now that they are capable of a coordinated attack. Know your enemy.

The scene with the Guv coming out, with the duster on, eye bandaged, looking badass, and deranged. :eek: I think I've a totally hetro male love going on for him.

sparkthatbled

Did anyone else think Michonne was gonna take off (or loosen) all of Penny's chains etc. leave the hood on and leave her in the cage so the next time the guv opened it up she would attack him? Maybe that would be too cruel, though...

PhiloCypher

Didn't like how for the sake of giving Tyreese's gang access to the prison they wrote in an unheard of gap in the prisons perimeter fences (wouldn't Ricks gang have found that ?) , could they not just have had them climb the fence or come in the front gate ?

Now if its used again by woodbury forces fair enough but if it never mentioned again that's just poor writing .

Penn

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'll need to watch it again, but didn't her reaction shot come before the Darryl unveiling, after the Guv denounced Merle as the traitor?

It's possibly just my complete dislike of her that's skewing my perception, but I can't abide her.

About 3:20 into the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutbSa0G7y0

Everything before that, she didn't know what The Governor was going to do/say. It's not like the walker gladiator ring from a few episodes back, this was everyone gathered around to hear a speech from their leader after a huge attack. She had no reason to react in any particular way because she didn't know it was Daryl and didn't know it was Rick's group. The only shot of her after that was the realisation of who she'd been shooting at and that they're still alive (8 months since she last saw them where they pretty much unknowingly left her for dead)

Don't get me wrong, I hate her character too. But I can't see any reason why she should have reacted any differently than the way she did, because she didn't know what was going to happen. It'll be her reaction to it in the next few episodes which will be important.

username123

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I think I've a totally hetro male love going on for him.

lol - great post!!

Syferus

Merle's done for in Woodbury. Even killing Daryl won't make the Governor trust him again after the disaster he unleashed by lying about killing Michonne and not being prepared for Rick's attack. Any idea that he has a future there as anything other than dog meat is fool-hardy.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Didn't like how for the sake of giving Tyreese's gang access to the prison they wrote in an unheard of gap in the prisons perimeter fences (wouldn't Ricks gang have found that ?) , could they not just have had them climb the fence or come in the front gate ?

Now if its used again by woodbury forces fair enough but if it never mentioned again that's just poor writing .

They already established they've only cleared one block properly and that even the block they cleared for the inmates had holes in its defenses that was letting walkers into parts of the block. There still seems to be plenty of walkers in the access ways outside their block and given they've killed so many it seems clear there's plenty of holes in the prison for them to be leaking in fro mother blocks or from outside. I'm nearly sure it was even explicitly said during a previous episode that walkers were getting into the prison from outside, even going as far as them having scouted around the outside of the entire complex.

There was absolutely no plot conveniences in having Tyreese's group entering as they did beyond them being nearby to begin with.

Grimebox

A video of a recording of a TV is utterly unacceptable... hopefully this won't get taken down automatically

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QdCRr2e7iM

sarah42012

OMG totally didn't expect Tyresse and his gang to turn up. Loved the episode, really fast paced and a good bitta action!
The scene with Michonne and the Gov was brilliant, especailly when Andrea turned up and was looking around at the snapping zombie heads. I wonder whats gonna happen with her when she gets reunited with Ricks group.
Fans of the show really can't stick her!
I can't help buy feel that if Merle does get accepted to into Ricks group or whatever, that hes gonna cause some kind of disaster and get some of Ricks gang killed. Looking forward to seeing the tension between him and Glen.

God I can't freakin wait until Feb! The spoiler at the end did give a lot away which was quite annoying.

gungun

I really loved in the final scene when the governor walked out acting sorry and nice to the crowd the dressing over his eye was white and clean, but as he got more angry and showed his true ruthless form the dressing had become soaked in blood to match his personality, thought that was a cool touch

wonderfullife

The Guv really knows what buttons to push! Always a good idea, especially in America, to refer to outside threats as terrorism. Kinda reminds me of the Family Guy scene where Lois keeps answering "9/11" when asked about any policy choices and being met with huge cheers!

As much as Merle has shown himself pretty ruthless, watching the final scene over and seeing them side by side i kinda feel myself rooting for both of them to team up. It would definitely be my preference from a sorta Rocky standpoint for them to get out of this mess and Merle to make peace with Ricks group, he'd be a huge asset. Unlikely to happen but it would complete his arc if he did somehow end up dying to save Daryll and the group when the Guv eventually attacks!

Nervous Wreck

I find it really bizarre the reasoning that people are coming up with to try to reconcile Merle with the Governor.

The Guv isn't planting Merle as a secret agent.

He's not trying to test his loyalty.

What he is doing? He's using Merle as a scapegoat. He's got Daryl captive but it's not enough. He needs to unite the people of Woodbury but if he only had a prisoner to show them, he would unite them in fear. "Here is the enemy! He managed to get inside our walls and kill our people!" The first thing to cross their collective minds would be "Then it can be done again; we're not safe." and that's trouble.

So he gives them Merle as well. "Here is the enemy! He managed to get inside our walls and kill our people... but only because they had an inside man. Merle!" Suddenly the people are united in their anger and outrage. Suddenly, they're not afraid of the enemy; they're angry at him and his people. They want revenge. They want blood. The Governor wants blood.

Syferus

sarah42012 wrote: »

OMG totally didn't expect Tyresse and his gang to turn up. Loved the episode, really fast paced and a good bitta action!
The scene with Michonne and the Gov was brilliant, especailly when Andrea turned up and was looking around at the snapping zombie heads. I wonder whats gonna happen with her when she gets reunited with Ricks group.
Fans of the show really can't stick her!
I can't help buy feel that if Merle does get accepted to into Ricks group or whatever, that hes gonna cause some kind of disaster and get some of Ricks gang killed. Looking forward to seeing the tension between him and Glen.

God I can't freakin wait until Feb! The spoiler at the end did give a lot away which was quite annoying.

The idea that Merle is going to be accepted into Rick's group after kidnapping Glen and Maggie, literally trying to kill Glen and almost getting Maggie raped is as likely as his staying in Woodbury. Maybe he does something to buy himself some supplies by saving Daryl but I don't see Rick ever letting Merle stay, there would be an insurrection of he tried to do that.

In all honesty the story seems to be pointing towards Merle plain dying or dying and redeeming himself every so slightly by doing something selfless for his brother in the process.

Penn

Syferus wrote: »

The idea that Merle is going to be accepted into Rick's group after kidnapping Glen and Maggie, literally trying to kill Glen and almost getting Maggie raped is as likely as his staying in Woodbury. Maybe he does something to buy himself some supplies by saving Daryl but I don't see Rick ever letting Merle stay, there would be an insurrection of he tried to do that.

In all honesty the story seems to be pointing towards Merle plain dying or dying and redeeming himself every so slightly by doing something selfless for his brother in the process.

Merle's way in is Daryl. If Daryl threatened to leave the group and go with Merle if they didn't take him in, Rick might let him join, as there's no way he could lose Daryl. Daryl is his No.2 and he seems to trust him more than anyone else (I don't think he trusts Glenn to the same extent because he knows that if push came to shove, Glenn might make a reckless call if Maggie's life was in danger).

If Merle managed to save the life of someone in the group, then Daryl gave Rick an ultimatum to let Merle join (under his watch) or he'd leave with Merle, then I think Rick would have no other choice.

splendid101

I think Merle is going to die with a crossbow bolt between the eyes.

Kirby

splendid101 wrote: »

I think Merle is going to die with a crossbow bolt between the eyes.

Na. Daryl has been waving that knife around so much this season that eventually he is going to get to use it.

Jikashi

It just occurred to me: Merle is a racist redneck murderous member of the original group who is still fun for the audience to watch, separated from that group for the duration of the second season due to having his hand severed from a set of handcuffs, resurfaces to the main group in the third season as right hand man to the ruthless overseer of a dangerous new location, and now appears to be fated for an uneasy alliance with the main group again, in a prison no less.

Merle Dixon is the new Theodore "T-Bag" Bagwell

ZombieMed

Jikashi wrote: »

It just occurred to me: Merle is a racist redneck murderous member of the original group who is still fun for the audience to watch, separated from that group for the duration of the second season due to having his hand severed from a set of handcuffs, resurfaces to the main group in the third season as right hand man to the ruthless overseer of a dangerous new location, and now appears to be fated for an uneasy alliance with the main group again, in a prison no less.

Merle Dixon is the new Theodore "T-Bag" Bagwell

Absolutely spot-on! We just lost Sarah Wayne Callies though. That doesn't say much about how interesting the rest of the season is going to be.

giggii

ZombieMed wrote: »

Absolutely spot-on! We just lost Sarah Wayne Callies though. That doesn't say much about how interesting the rest of the season is going to be.

*Cue the "I don't think Lori is dead" posts starting again*

Syferus

Penn wrote: »

Merle's way in is Daryl. If Daryl threatened to leave the group and go with Merle if they didn't take him in, Rick might let him join, as there's no way he could lose Daryl. Daryl is his No.2 and he seems to trust him more than anyone else (I don't think he trusts Glenn to the same extent because he knows that if push came to shove, Glenn might make a reckless call if Maggie's life was in danger).

If Merle managed to save the life of someone in the group, then Daryl gave Rick an ultimatum to let Merle join (under his watch) or he'd leave with Merle, then I think Rick would have no other choice.

Daryl is a key part of the group but there is nothing Metle can do to mend fences with the rest of the group after what transpired in Woodbury. If push came to shove Rick'd have to let Daryl go with Merle because it's incomprehensible that the rest of the group could ever trust Merle again in any capacity. Rick has become more decisive on these sorts of things this year, killing the homicidal inmate and chasing the other inmate to his assumed death without bothering with the moral hang-wringing of old. Rick unstands how destructive division in the group really is since Shane and even Daryl isn't bigger than that.

All I hope is Daryl survives because he is a damn awesome character.

username123

Syferus wrote: »

Daryl is a key part of the group but there is nothing Metle can do to mend fences with the rest of the group after what transpired in Woodbury. If push came to shove Rick'd have to let Daryl go with Merle because it's incomprehensible that the rest of the group could ever trust Merle again in any capacity. Rick has become more decisive on these sorts of things this year, killing the homicidal inmate and chasing the other inmate to his assumed death without bothering with the moral hang-wringing of old. Rick unstandardised how destructive division in the group is and even Daryl isn't bigger than that.

All I hope is Daryl survives because he is a damn awesome character.

Nah, Rick needs Daryl. If push comes to shove Rick would let Merle stay with the caveat that Daryl is responsible for him.

Sofiztikated

Syferus wrote: »

Daryl is a key part of the group but there is nothing Metle can do to mend fences with the rest of the group after what transpired in Woodbury. If push came to shove Rick'd have to let Daryl go with Merle because it's incomprehensible that the rest of the group could ever trust Merle again in any capacity. Rick has become more decisive on these sorts of things this year, killing the homicidal inmate and chasing the other inmate to his assumed death without bothering with the moral hang-wringing of old. Rick unstandardised how destructive division in the group is and even Daryl isn't bigger than that.

All I hope is Daryl survives because he is a damn awesome character.

:pac:

I'm going to guess, and this is based of nothing more that ideas floating in my head, that Rick isn't the leader he once was. His actions are getting people killed. Leadership is slipping from him. Carl is the way forward, until Rick gets his head out of his ass.

El Guapo!

Sofiztikated wrote: »

:pac:

I'm going to guess, and this is based of nothing more that ideas floating in my head, that Rick isn't the leader he once was. His actions are getting people killed. Leadership is slipping from him. Carl is the way forward, until Rick gets his head out of his ass.

Carl isn't the way forward. He has manned up a good bit this season and he's actually a good member of the group now but Daryl is the way forward. He's the man!

Syferus

Carl's came on in leaps and bounds, I think outside Daryl his arc has been one of the most impressive in the last season or so. He started out as yet another vaguely annoying child but slowly he's hardened and is understanding what has to be done to survive in the world. There's also the tragic element of such a young boy having to become so jaded that he doesn't think twice about mowing down walkers or locking up other people. It's just been a very believable arc for the character and one that will likely end up being even more central to the show as it moves through the seasons.

He's obviously not in a position to lead the group right now and likely if Daryl is gone and Rick really starts to fall off the deep end it'll be this Tyresse fella that will be the go-to guy for the group, even in what little we've seen so far he seems to be reasonable enough to be able connect with people and strong enough to make tough choices.

Conmaicne Mara

Daryl isn't (I hope) going anywhere, he's too good a character. I cannot see Merle being in the same group as Glenn and Hershels daughter as well as the fact he despises Rick and everyone else left of the original group. Merles days are numbered. I could see him and the Gov killing each other, but perhaps not as directly as that, a consequence of other actions maybe.

Andrea, all picture, no sound.

Now we've two angry black women.

Frisbee

giggii wrote: »

*Cue the "I don't think Lori is dead" posts starting again*

We can't be sure that was actually her head in the box!

fasttalkerchat

giggii wrote: »

*Cue the "I don't think Lori is dead" posts starting again*

Im regretting saying that now!

Lovely Bloke

I can't see them killing Daryl off, a character they created specifically for the show who has become so popular

Jikashi

One thing you must always keep in mind with The Walking Dead Universe is the noone is safe.