Historic Vote tonight in Belfast

GRMA

awec wrote: »

Er, you're making stuff up again.

Nope, did you see their leaflets?

Even the Alliance party said their campaign they ran was an utter disgrace

karma_

awec wrote: »

Er, you're making stuff up again.

I don;t think so. They printed 40000 leaflets and posted them around letterboxes in Belfast in an attempt to intimidate the Alliance party and their support for this motion. Real bully-boy tactics

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64122000/jpg/_64122035_leaflet.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20317461

Chuck Stone

Ahh the Democratic Unionist Party hardliners - still fantasizing about "the good ol' days" when they could frustrate the democratic wishes of Nationalists.

GRMA

just off the phone with a friend from the short strand... says st matthews just got attacked

scumbags

steddyeddy

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

belfast is a city in the UK, of course the union jack should fly there

jesus tapdancing christ I ****ing hate the north

Well I suppose the problem Caesar is that a large percentage of the population dont believe it should be a city in the UK and that their culture is unrepresented.

woodoo

old hippy wrote: »

"We" do, do "we"?

So a tracksuit or being unemployed equals scumbags, eh?

When rioting yes

awec

karma_ wrote: »

I don;t think so. They printed 40000 leaflets and posted them around letterboxes in Belfast in an attempt to intimidate the Alliance party and their support for this motion. Real bully-boy tactics

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64122000/jpg/_64122035_leaflet.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20317461

Yea, in November.

Hardly "months", as GRMA put it.

awec

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ahh the Democratic Unionist Party hardliners - still fantasizing about "the good ol' days" when they could frustrate the democratic wishes of Nationalists.

See, again, this is nonsense.

If we are going to discuss this can you at least do the decent thing and not tell outright lies.

You think the DUP are annoyed that they can't frustrate nationalists? Really?

I despise the DUP, have never voted for them, never will, but I wouldn't stoop to the level of claiming they are annoyed because they can't "oppress" nationalists ffs.

baldbear

Rte News item now discussing it.

Dyr

This is a veeyalation of ower human rights so it is, I'm away tay city hall for tay punch a taig so I am :mad:

MaxSteele

Did ya see those cretins draped in Union jacks mushed up against the windows outside the Alliance - DUP meeting ?

Fuming they were. Hilarious.:D

awec

MaxSteele wrote: »

Did ya see those cretins draped in Union jacks mushed up against the windows outside the Alliance - DUP meeting ?

Fuming they were. Hilarious.:D

To be honest, the most hilarious thing about the protest was the number of goons walking about with a Union Flag held or worn upside down.

mfceiling

Oh dear...

I'm from the north originally and i'm disappointed when i see this carry on happening over a flag.

I travelled all over the north and south and saw every flag from union jack, tricolour, palestinian, israeli, ulster, kerry, monaghan etc etc

Do i care what flag is flying where.............No

Seriously live and let live.

Chuck Stone

awec wrote: »

See, again, this is nonsense.

If we are going to discuss this can you at least do the decent thing and not tell outright lies.

You think the DUP are annoyed that they can't frustrate nationalists? Really?

I said DUP hardliners - didn't claim every person ever associated with the DUP.

Read my posts properly before you accuse me of lying.

awec

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I said DUP hardliners - didn't claim every person ever associated with the DUP.

Read my posts properly before you accuse me of lying.

Just like Sinn Fein hardliners named that playpark to send a sinister message to unionists to not forget that they used to shoot and bomb them, and to remind them that they probably killed one of their mates as some stage then?

If you're allowed to make stuff up to distort the truth, then so will I.

Micky Dolenz

awec wrote: »

To be honest, the most hilarious thing about the protest was the number of goons walking about with a Union Flag held or worn upside down.

This is a real bug bear of mine. It happens to the tri colour all the time. I'll have to learn the Ivory coast national anthem at this rate.

fionnsda

awec wrote: »

To be honest, the most hilarious thing about the protest was the number of goons walking about with a Union Flag held or worn upside down.

protest456_1135609d.jpg its kinda hard to tell the difference, is that one in the background, center, small.

Death and Taxes

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

This is a real bug bear of mine. It happens to the tri colour all the time. I'll have to learn the Ivory coast national anthem at this rate.

+100 lols

awec

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

This is a real bug bear of mine. It happens to the tri colour all the time. I'll have to learn the Ivory coast national anthem at this rate.

It's a bug bear of mine too. You'd think if you're going to claim to be some sort of patriotic flag loving hero that you'd at least know which way is up!

GRMA

RTE didnt mention the attack on st matthews catholic church... UTV did though


loyalists eh?

steddyeddy

awec wrote: »

See, again, this is nonsense.

If we are going to discuss this can you at least do the decent thing and not tell outright lies.

You think the DUP are annoyed that they can't frustrate nationalists? Really?

I despise the DUP, have never voted for them, never will, but I wouldn't stoop to the level of claiming they are annoyed because they can't "oppress" nationalists ffs.

In fairness given the history of the north it's not an unreasonable thing to claim.

awec

fionnsda wrote: »

protest456_1135609d.jpg its kinda hard to tell the difference, is that one in the background, center, small.

The top left of the flag should have the red portion of the st patricks cross in the lower half of the saltire.

Looks like the small one in the centre of the screen is upside down, but it is harder to tell when it's on a pole. When it's wrapped around someone, or they are holding it, it's dead obvious.

dttq

Someting tells me Seanchai will be doing a re-reg in order to have a rant.

As for the flag, can't people get over all this tribalist backward bickering, it's the 21st century FFS, not the 19th. We had two of the most destructive wars during the 20th century as a result of tribalism, that's why we have the EU . On second thoughts put up the EU flag, representative of prosperity, peace and post- nationalist tribalism. That way neither the (a) Ireland for Gaels only or (b) I love to bang my drums for billy up catholic neighbourhoods brigade can have cause for offence

mfceiling

GRMA wrote: »

RTE didnt mention the attack on st matthews catholic church... UTV did though


loyalists eh?

Not really sure of your point?

Not taking the p*ss or provoking...just interested.

Maybe UTV will cover more than RTE as it's the broadcaster for NI?

GRMA

mfceiling wrote: »

Not really sure of your point?

Not taking the p*ss or provoking...just interested.

Maybe UTV will cover more than RTE as it's the broadcaster for NI?

I mentioned it in case people didnt believe me when I said it happened because it wasnt said on RTE

Dyr

dttq wrote: »

Someting tells me Seanchai will be doing a re-reg in order to have a rant.

As for the flag, can't people get over all this tribalist backward bickering, it's the 21st century FFS, not the 19th. We had two of the most destructive wars during the 20th century as a result of tribalism, that's why we have the EU . On second thoughts put up the EU flag, representative of prosperity, peace and post- nationalist tribalism. That way neither the (a) Ireland for Gaels only or (b) I love to bang my drums for billy up catholic neighbourhoods brigade

We had two destructive wars in the 20th century wars due to empire building and **** economics, two things the EU seems to be very good at.

Say what you want about tribalism but it tends not to start massive wars. Tribes are usually too small and will have better things to be doing with themselves.

Chuck Stone

awec wrote: »

If you're allowed to make stuff up to distort the truth, then so will I.

The difference is that I'm not making stuff up.

As for your senseless spiel about the play-park...

SINN Fein and the SDLP have voted to retain the title of a Newry playground

Source

You can hardly accuse the SDLP of being hardliners.

mfceiling

GRMA wrote: »

I mentioned it in case people didnt believe me when I said it happened because it wasnt said on RTE

OK.

Why the "loyalists eh" at the bottom...........was it a reference to loyalists attacking the church?

GRMA

mfceiling wrote: »

OK.

Why the "loyalists eh" at the bottom...........was it a reference to loyalists attacking the church?

Yep

awec

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The difference is that I'm not making stuff up.

As for your senseless spiel about the play-park...



You can hardly accuse the SDLP of being hardliners.

You can't accuse the SDLP of being anything. They are the most skewed party in the north, they don't know what to be at. They're an irrelevance.

And yes, you were.

Anyway, going to bow out of this discussion now, I think it has been completed.

My name is URL

Hands of the Union Flag

Bit harsh on the flag, I thought.

Nodin

awec wrote: »

You can't accuse the SDLP of being anything. They are the most skewed party in the north, they don't know what to be at. They're an irrelevance.
..........

Not often we'd agree.

Ghandee

About time tbh.

It has been decided by a democratic vote by the councillors in Belfast, and some folk (especially the 'Shinner haters') on this thread have a problem with that how exactly?

Step in the right direction for the six counties IMO.

fasttalkerchat

My name is URL wrote: »

Hands of the Union Flag

Bit harsh on the flag, I thought.

There's an apostrophe too... "Hand's of the union flag"

My name is URL

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

There's an apostrophe too... "Hand's of the union flag"

I mistook that for a spec on my screen! Jesus, you'd imagine that such enthusiastic anglophiles would have a better grasp of the language.

dttq

Bambi wrote: »

We had two destructive wars in the 20th century wars due to empire building and **** economics, two things the EU seems to be very good at.

Say what you want about tribalism but it tends not to start massive wars. Tribes are usually too small and will have better things to be doing with themselves.

Eh no, WW2 began in large part as a result of conflicting interests over Germans in Czechoslovakia, reclaiming the port of Danzig etc. Clearly an ethnic based conflict to begin with. Imperialism was just another form of ethic chauvinism tbh, eg. The "superior races" should govern the supposedly inferior races. Ethic nationalism and imperialism are and were two cheeks of the same ar$e as far as I'm concerned.

Dyr

They'll be kicking off the council sessions with a decade of the rosary before long, maybe a nice statue of herself out in the big hall.

Tomorrow belongs tae us (so it does)

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

They'll be kicking off the council sessions with a decade of the rosary before long, maybe a nice statue of herself out in the big hall.

.........

No point in replacing one brand of stupidity with another.

Dyr

dttq wrote: »

Eh no, WW2 began in large part as a result of conflicting interests over Germans in Czechoslovakia, reclaiming the port of Danzig etc. Clearly an ethnic based conflict to begin with. Imperialism was just another form of ethic chauvinism tbh, eg. The "superior races" should govern the supposedly inferior races. Ethic nationalism and imperialism are and were two cheeks of the same ar$e as far as I'm concerned.

So we've gone from tribes to ethnicity now eh? Dropped world war 1 and all.

take a look at the participants in world war 2. That's supposed to be a war created by tribalism? My arse it was. British & Russian empire vs German & Japanese empire. Even poor oul Benito had a crack at the empire thing.

Nationalism is the enemy of the empire builder. Hence our french and german pals punting it as the root of all evils these days

Chuck Stone

I guess we should be somewhat thankful that there is no modern day equivalent of Ian Paisley whipping paranoid fools into a murderous frenzy while scurrying off to safety himself.

gallag

As a pro UK nordie I am sort of ok with this, I believe our Catholic/republican/Irish neighbors should feel comfortable around our shared city hall, I would even expect the tricolour to be flown if we had the privilege of Irish head of state visiting. I believe a high 90% would share my opinion and that is why most people in the north are pro UK.
The rioting tonight is pathetic

To be fair I also think naming play parks after terrorists is a bit sick, these are people that planted bombs that killed mother and child. Incase it's not obvious, I would hold equal disgust for republican or unionist doing it. i honestly can not understand the mentality of someone that revels in the decision tonight in the name of inclusion but argues the sanity of naming a children's play park after a murderer.

dttq

Bambi wrote: »

So we've gone from tribes to ethnicity now eh? Dropped world war 1 and all.

take a look at the participants in world war 2. That's supposed to be a war created by tribalism? My arse it was. British & Russian empire vs German & Japanese empire. Even poor oul Benito had a crack at the empire thing.

Nationalism is the enemy of the empire builder. Hence our french and german pals punting it as the root of all evils these days

There is nothing to say that the two aren't complimentary. Take GWB and the American right for instance, their wars of conquest throughout the globe have often been whipped up through a frenzy of patriotic fervour. It's still happening unfortunately, we don't need to simply look back on the world wars because it's happening right now. It's also happening in Israel as we speak

Chuck Stone

gallag wrote: »

To be fair I also think naming play parks after terrorists is a bit sick, these are people that planted bombs that killed mother and child.

When it came to killing civilians the IRA weren't a patch on the other belligerents.

You will note that ~50% of British Army killings in the north were civilians compared to ~35% for the IRA - that's before you even consider the loyalist murder gangs who received much of their weapons and training from the UDR regiment of the BA.

Your 'Cowboys and Indians' caricatures are ridiculous. There were plenty of terrorists running around the north in uniforms.

Celly Smunt

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I guess we should be somewhat thankful that there is no modern day equivalent of Ian Paisley whipping paranoid fools into a murderous frenzy while scurrying off to safety himself.

Ah you still see him every now and again banging the bible outside city hall.

Dustaz

markesmith wrote: »

One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. Lots of atrocities on both sides in WW2 - let's not forget Dresden, killed more in one night than the Provos probably killed in twenty years

Probably?

If you have no concept of the numbers involved in both situations, then maybe you shouldnt be making such ridiculous comparisons.

Seaneh

Dustaz wrote: »

Probably?

If you have no concept of the numbers involved in both situations, then maybe you shouldnt be making such ridiculous comparisons.

In fairness, he is right, more people were killed in Dresden than died during the troubles on both sides (between 18,000 and 25,000 people were killed in the Dresden Bombings, up to 200,000 people injured).

fasttalkerchat

gallag wrote: »

As a pro UK nordie I am sort of ok with this, I believe our Catholic/republican/Irish neighbors should feel comfortable around our shared city hall, I would even expect the tricolour to be flown if we had the privilege of Irish head of state visiting. I believe a high 90% would share my opinion and that is why most people in the north are pro UK.
The rioting tonight is pathetic

To be fair I also think naming play parks after terrorists is a bit sick, these are people that planted bombs that killed mother and child. Incase it's not obvious, I would hold equal disgust for republican or unionist doing it. i honestly can not understand the mentality of someone that revels in the decision tonight in the name of inclusion but argues the sanity of naming a children's play park after a murderer.

Nearly every town centre has a cenotaph, as the previous poster said, one man's terrorist etc.

LordSutch

seamus wrote: »

Don't see what the problem is with flying the national flag of the UK, in the UK.

Agreed, but I would also be curious to know what happens in Cardiff & Edinburgh.

seamus wrote: »

What are they planning on flying instead?

Nothing apparently, just the empty flag pole for most of the year (bar fifteen days).

Dustaz

Seaneh wrote: »

In fairness, he is right, more people were killed in Dresden than died during the troubles on both sides (between 18,000 and 25,000 people were killed in the Dresden Bombings, up to 200,000 people injured).

My point is that if he has to use the word 'probably' in comparing the two, hes on very thin ice.

Seaneh

Dustaz wrote: »

My point is that if he has to use the word 'probably' in comparing the two, hes on very thin ice.

He was still right.