parking at st lukes

redtelephone

trpsarge wrote: »

It won't as the title holder will always have the option to enforce its own policy on parking restrictions and the public will be bound to abide by policy if they want to use the services the title holder offers.

It will however regulate clamping providers in how they operate, but like the PSA they will lay down the criteria and self regulatr.

The proposed legislation will make ir illegal to clamp vehicles in hospital car parks. This is in line with the Report to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport on the Regulation of Vehicle Clamping proposal no 37.

"37. The Joint Committee recommends that clamping should be prohibited in particularly
sensitive locations such as hospital car parks and instead a barrier system put in
place (in the event that access to the NVRF is not proposed)."

If this bill is enacted are you saying that hospital management can ignore it and continue to clamp?

trpsarge

If the act of putting on a clamp was illegal in the first place, does a person removing it commit an offence?

Two wrongs don't make a right..The former would have to be illegal,but local parking policies can and do make the act of clamping and even removal of vehicles permissable.

Even if the former is illegal , criminal damage is still a crime.

The Joint Committee recommends that clamping should be prohibited in particularly
sensitive locations such as hospital car parks and instead a barrier system put in
place (in the event that access to the NVRF is not proposed).

If its made law. the hospital management really have no choice but to comply, but given its not the hospital management who are clamping ,but the contracted company,I could see the companies taking the act to court as it damages their business.

redtelephone

trpsarge wrote: »

Even if the former is illegal , criminal damage is still a crime.

If your vehicle has been illegally immobilised, you can make a case that you used reasonable force to remove the clamp. It would be the same if my neighbour decided to clamp my car, would I not have a right to remove the clamp using reasonable force?
For a discussion on the legal status of clamping on private property, see page 30 of the Law Society Gazette March 2011. The law here is different from that in England and Wales, due to the virtual absence of a defence of voluntary assumption of risk in this country.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/Gazette/Gazette%202011/March2011.pdf

trpsarge

Interesting article , but it fails to provide for where there is parking available and where the service users fails to use same, and fails to comply with the terms of the parking policy.

Furthermore given the hospital is replicating what is legal in other areas, including the provision of disabled bays, and its primary basis for having clamping is to ensure safe passage for all those using the services again the scenario is different.

Back to reasonable force..what is reasonable force, it is that force that which is a minimum to prevent an illegal action being carried out.

Whats legal or illegal?

The parking of cars is not illegal, however it is in contravention to the parking policy, which is a binding contract between the service provider and service user!
What is illegal is the use of force to criminal damage any property of the service user or persons employed to carry out their lawful instruction.

foxcoverteddy

in truth there seems to be a number trying to get round the proper parking of vehicles within the confines of the hospital grounds. One has only to go into town to see the standard of parking, there are those who abide by the rules and there are those who believe it doesn't apply to them.
However the car parking facility must be sufficient to accomodate everyone, apparently this is not so at st lukes.
There are some empty spac es which should be made available for staff, must be made available, without staff you can't run a hospital.
After all the A&E building is essential, ever heard of a department that hasn't got a loo? The current A&E hasn't, share with the customer's is a definate no no.
Common sense should prevail

trpsarge

Why should staff be any different to patients or the public when it comes to parking.

there is sufficient parking for all the staff except it seems that some would like to park on the ward they work!

Its a very common Irish attitude that if you think you can get away with parking where you like, why not and then bitch about the fact that you can't even when you are not supposed to and have an alternative!

I'm not even going into the realms of free parking for staff.......

As for the toilet issue, have to wait for the new A&E...may be that can be 'pay parking only as well'!

foxcoverteddy

mostly I try to see the other persons point of view, and I try to learn by their knowledge.
However when someone condems hospital staff having free parking, i worry what sort of world are we living in.
We depend on the staff at st lukes or any other hospital, sometimes they are needed in emergencies, in the main we need them to be there for us.
Why should they pay to park? If you go down that road then nobody should get free parking, council worker's, supermarket staff, the list is endless, ah but a lot of people do have to pay, yes true, our towns were not built for the car owning population.
Milton Keynes was designed for the car and people, fantastic place.
I do not object to paying for parking and do not feel any animosity towards staff who park for free, yes they should have their own car park, and I would say to those who object think again, yes take a good look at your attitude, remember one day you might be grateful the hospital staff have not got to look around for somewhere to park, your life might depend on it.
Do you agree with the response?

trpsarge

Given the lack of a proper public transport system and distances people commute to work in St. Lukes free car parking for the staff is a must.

Free parking should not always be taken as a given as in a lot of places its not due to the location of facilities.

In some city centres paying for parking is accepted and gets quite expensive.

In relation to parking in contrary to policy staff should be treated the same as the public and if anything they should see their own role as to set an example to the public and encourage them to park correctly, however this has never been the case and only the recent changes have overturned years of bad practise.

All the persons 'On Call' have the requirements they need to attend both during working hours and out of hours without clamping being an issue.

As I mentioned earlier the cost of development in earlier post the days of dedicated car parking spaces for staff are gone, and any future development will have to be revenue making to pay for itself.At €700 to develop one space in line with planning requirements and with space now at a premium on site, its not easy.

I spoke to some one in a clamping company last week around the potential for removal of the right to clamp in Hospitals etc. and they are monitoring it very carefully and believe that clamping will exist in some for or shape as more hospitals head towards it as a means of enforcing policy. The risks associated with unmanaged traffic are too huge to contemplate especially if hospitals are liable for their own compensation payouts in the case of negligence on site. If that extends to delays or accidents caused by unrestricted parking the hospitals would be held liable, so I wouldn't be holding my breath on that one yet,

foxcoverteddy

trpsarge, an interesting post, a pleasure to read, hopefully you have read the news this morning, it may have some bearing on the content.
Whilst, I am not a political animal by the way, we are being led by what has been described as a bunch of con artist's, duffers etc, who are extracting as much as possible from the current system of government, despite receiving over inflated wages, expenses, being paid for attending the Dial, what did we elect them to do, or what did they think it was all about, I believe they also get travelling and god knows what else.
It is these people who should be setting the example, not the poorly paid trainee nurse, domestic or whatever it takes to run a hospital.
Yes if everyone was up front I might agree with your comments, but alas they are not and never likely to be.
I think the cost per parking space should not be a consideration for staff, I bet the private ambulances who come and go do not pay any charges.
If you think I have no idea of parking charges try living in Central London, just to pop round the shops in Bond street cost an arm and a leg, no wonder I couldn't afford to shop in Gucci.
Have a super day and many thanks.

trpsarge

Why would 'private' ambulances have to pay anything ?

They provide services the HSE can't. The majority of these are providing patient transport between hospitals which would be a draw on Ambulances required for emergency and local usage, surely you don't suggest these are liable for parking charges?

I'm not a political animal either but passing the buck all the way to the top does make anything right, politicians, ministers parties come and go but the same people run the system from day today. There is no political will to change anything within the public service from the top down as opposed to cutting at the tails of the lower earners. The persons responsible of putting the HSE where it is now and having to run services on hairshirt budgets have long retired with their huge pay offs, the politicians only rubber stamped what the department officials were telling them based on what they were fed from the HSE.

Parking charges in London...I'll take your word for it, but then again they want it car free so will charge these anyway,we however don't even have a bus service passing St. Lukes hospital....unless of course you come by ambulance..private or otherwise.

Sorry missed the news this morning..anything interesting?

foxcoverteddy

Given that there is always a steady flow of patients and visitors one wonders why there is no bus service, having said that the whole area is devoid of a proper public trannsport system, unless you want to include cabs/taxi's, which poor people can ill afford.
Why shouldn't private ambulances pay a contribution to the parking fund, they charge somewhere around 800 euro to take a patient to Dublin, we need the money for our hospital.
The news, poor old Reilly is getting bashed again for fast tracking our A&E, despite the intrigue we should rally round and support him on this which is to our benefit.
Someone is bound to have a go at our Phil before long, and despite previous posts he is throwing our city a lifeline, so if he and poor old Reilly are doing for us, lets support Kilkenny and the boy's, screw the rest of em.
Do remember the moral stance is okay and one should not turn it on and off as one sees fit.
Remember this is one big game, play it, enjoy it we might not get another chance.

trpsarge

If the hospital is making money by being able to offer services unavailable else where its making over and above what you'll ever make from charging a few quid for a private ambulance to park.

I have no problem with big Phil leaning on O'Reilly to fastrack a project that was on the drawings since 2008.

Known fact, no minister...nothing done.....How do you think Waterford ever got a second bridge... should have been called the Martin Cullen Bridge.

When you live in a banana republic you get taste for bananas.

On the subject of buses , one of the planning conditions of the new building is that there is a bus stop installed on site.

Great idea..all you need now is a bus service.....maybe Waterford Regional might give up theirs if they loose services.

foxcoverteddy

See your point why demand a bus stop and no bufses, that is not a spelling mistake.
I do agree about the private ambulances, reluctantly but it makes sense.
However the method which the new unit was given the go-ahead appears to be a continuing saga, hopefully it will pass over so as not let us have a half completed building.
It has been an interesting thread, thanks

trpsarge

Small problem that everyone has overlooked in relation to the new build.

The budget is to build a structure, no budget was granted for a fit out......or the increase in staffing levels that will be required to optimally operate it.

Come back in 18 months and we'll see how that one pans out.

We are not diametrically opposed in wanting the same result, what is best for the hospital and how best it can serve its catchment area...we might differ in how certain aspects of that maybe achieved, means to an end, once the end is optimal.

foxcoverteddy

I love it, well done for bringing it up, as you say we will wait and see. Suppose we could have a collection or something.
Thanks for such an interesting attitude, my regards, foxy

Owryan

Was out in st lukes everyday this week and there has been at least 3 cars clamped daily while I was there. Mostly at the outpatients building . Yesterday there were 2 cars parked in the disabled/wheelchair spots at the front and both were clamped within minutes.

On Tues a car pulled up at out patients and parked on the corner as you head to a+e . He was clamped within minutes yet the driver had to pass a clamped car to park there. I have no problem with clamping where those who decide to ignore the rules

foxcoverteddy

The bill to be passed regarding private clampers is interesting in that hospitals will be able to decide which way to go, though it is stated that there was an opinion clamping should not take place due to various factors one being emergencies which occur.
So perhpa St Lukes will make a statement as to their intentions and if they persist in clamping to bring it into line with the expected maximum of 80euro.
Guess more will come out when the bill is actually passed later on in the year, so if you get clamped don't throw a wobbly just yet.

trpsarge

The decision regarding the release fee would lay with the contractors , not the hospital.

Tbh passing a bill without the input of those who use contracted clamping companies and to understand the benefit of enforcement of parking regulations,is flawed.

Irish people seem to have some inbuilt fail mechanism when it comes to parking legally or in line with parking regulations,hence clamping is required to enforce their obligation.

Hospitals if anywhere need to have a mechanism which prevents parking that is indeed hazardous to other service users.

Kilkenny as a city has managed parking....you don't pay, you get fined and it has the back up of the bye laws to enforce the fines through the courts.

Hospitals don't have the money to chase people through the courts for unauthorized parking as the are exempt from bye laws, hence the need for regulated parking.

Other wise you just put a barrier and the entry and exit and every one who comes on site, visitor patient, set down what ever pays for their parking.

Of course no one says you have to enter the site to use the facilities, you can always park outside on the road, but guess what.....thats illegal...