BER Ratings to be advertised from Jan 1st 2013

murphaph

Icepick wrote: »

So for example 10-year-old double-glazed windows give the same amount of points regardless of their quality, wear, ..etc?

Yes. It's purely theoretical the calculation.

quietsailor

Is it possible to download the software - I'd like to work out different scenarios to see what gives the best upgade to the BER rating

BostonB

Icepick wrote: »

So for example 10-year-old double-glazed windows give the same amount of points regardless of their quality, wear, ..etc?

...Or fitted by the worlds worse trades person.

Icepick

murphaph wrote: »

Yes. It's purely theoretical the calculation.

Then it's almost useless as you can make almost the same assesment by viewing the property.
It can help with ads and that's it.

snubbleste

Just to point out, the legislation is effective 9 January 2013. Incorrect thread title.
Everyone going to be scouring the newspaper classifieds, daft, noticeboards etc to see if they advertise the BER?

Luca Brasi

RATM wrote: »

Just read over the weekend that from Jan 1st 2013 it will be a legal requirement for landlords to not only hold a BER cert and show it to tenants but also to advertise the BER rating alongside the property in any ads in papers, on Daft, Myhome, etc. In theory it should make comparing the quality of places transparent, this is providing the BER ratings that are advertised have actually been tested and that the rating reported is the one that applies.

Just wondering what recent renters experience with the BER Cert has been ? Did the landlord show you the physical cert when inspecting the property ?

I am afraid that this will be another regulation ignored by landlords. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for not registering their tenancies?

snubbleste

Luca Brasi wrote: »

I am afraid that this will be another regulation ignored by landlords. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for not registering their tenancies?

Yes.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/landlord-fined-for-failure-to-register-rental-properties-523916.html

BostonB

I assume He doesn't mean "register" bit fined for not having a BER.

NIMAN

I was browsing a local EA website here in Donegal and he no longer takes you directly to the properties when you visit, instead telling you that he is in the process of contacting all the sellers re: the BER cert as it must now exist for a property to be on his website.

I checked out Daft for one, and they are still advertising away. Are they breaking the new law?

youcancallmeal

pwurple wrote: »

Am I the only person who thinks the BER are a bit of a con-job? The concept is great, but the implementation, oh dear. They count the light bulbs for goodness sake. You get a higher rating by taking out the light bulbs before they inspect.

You would expect it to be nice and scientific, with heat meters, or any kind of measuring device. but instead they ask you the year the place was built, which assumes a base rating, and then add on the other bits like light bulb count. We all know there are HUGE variences in how places were built and insulated every year. The test is subjective, it depends on the BER person.

You can haggle with them, getting an extra property rated for free etc... They do re-test deals. BER people all charge different rates. To qualify, as far as I can tell the course is just on how to operate the BER piece of software, and print the cert. It is the usual irish half-arsed solution.

Wish it had been done properly, so we would have something of value.

I would be interested in hearing more about how the BERs are done. The new place I've moved into has a rating worse than G (the worst) yet the gas bill is more or less the same as our previous place (think is was a D?) and its warmer!

variety

NIMAN wrote: »

I checked out Daft for one, and they are still advertising away. Are they breaking the new law?

Yes, they are breaking the law; and this is despite having had ample warning of its implementation:
1. BER ratings have been in place since 2006; and
2. The new regulations were signed into law by the Minister for the Envionment on 9 July 2012 in the form of the European Union (Energy Performance of Buildings) Regulations 2012 (S.I. No. 243 of 2012) which transposed the latest EU Directive on the Energy Performance of Buildings into Irish law.

But noone seems to care that Daft.ie are non-compliant.
Environment Phil Hogan TD issued a press release earlier this week welcoming the industry's response to the new regulations.

The press release reads as follows:

"The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Mr. Phil Hogan, T.D., today (11 January 2013) welcomed signs of early arrangements within the property sector to comply with new requirements to quote Building Energy Ratings of buildings offered for sale or letting.

"It is very encouraging in recent days to see a number of key online advertisers and property agents taking the necessary steps to meet and in some cases exceed their new obligations to include BER ratings in advertisements and promotional materials.
The advertising requirement is now a statutory obligation since 9 January 2013 and has been well-flagged to industry in recent months.
I compliment those who have made the necessary arrangements to meet their obligations to date and I advise all others to follow suit at an early date."

Minister Hogan believes that the new advertising requirement will be a game-changer in terms of raising people's awareness of the energy performance of their home or building and the steps that can be taken to improve on its energy performance level while simultaneously saving money on energy bills and enjoying increased comfort.

The Press Release continues:
"The new advertising requirement is important in two respects.
Firstly it makes the market place more visible in terms of distinguishing clearly those property owners and agents who are complying with their statutory obligations in respect of building energy ratings from those who fail to comply.
Secondly, the requirement to publicly display the building energy rating will encourage property owners and occupiers, and indeed neighbours in similar properties, to take reasonable steps to ensure their building achieves the optimum rating it can".

murphaph

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I would be interested in hearing more about how the BERs are done. The new place I've moved into has a rating worse than G (the worst) yet the gas bill is more or less the same as our previous place (think is was a D?) and its warmer!

The BER is NOT a measurement of anything. It is not a good idea for people to start relying on them as if they were gospel truths, which they will initially, but they're being sold a bit of a pup.

Unfortunately many people are ignorant of this and will blindly trust these BER ratings and then flip out at their landlords (probably) that their gas bill costs x more than the last place and so on. It's only a matter of time.

NIMAN

I had a read through my last BER Cert I got done, and to be honest its a bit waffly, and something that most people could do with little or no training or qualifications.

Mine had a lot of padding, and took pages and pages to say very little. General statements like "energy usage could be improved by using more efficient light bulbs" is bunkum frankly.

And how a rating can be given without having to actually do any physical readings or measurements is beyond me. Looking around the loft to see how much insulation you have, checking you have double glazing, checking your light bulbs, checking what type of oil burner you have etc is not a good enough test of a houses energy rating imho.

L1011

Guessing how much insulation is more common than actually checking.

As I've said before here, I got given a BER cert that claimed the house had no attic insulation - when it does, to modern standards - as clearly the assessor had no ladder with him and the "owner" was dead at the time so couldn't correct him.

Also told me that there was apparently a lot of non energy efficient lightbulbs. Which seems to have been his way of dealing with half the sockets being empty :rolleyes: Nearly every bulb left in the house otherwise was CFL.

daver123

BER is a joke in this country and the sooner people start to realise that the better. I had a survey done on a house and it was a estate agent going around with a clipboard marking things and 20 mins later he was paid 130 euro

RATM

I emailed Daft about them not showing BER Ratings on properties advertised for sale or rent, as is the law since Jan 9th.

Their reply was thus :-

Thank you for your email.

Daft.ie are currently in discussion with the Sustainable Energy Association of Ireland (SEAI) and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government in regard to the BER Advertising Requirements Guidelines. We are currently making a submission in relation to some minor changes, but in the meantime we are working to implement the guidelines across our sites and multiple platforms.
At present we don't have a search for BER, but this may be part of implementing the guidelines across our site.

If there is anything else we can assist with please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

The Daft Team

So it's not there yet but it's in the post. Others on the Property Pin email Myhome.ie and they also got a similar response- they're working on it and to watch this space.

I don't buy local newspapers- perhaps someone who does might let us know if they've spotted any BER ratings on advertised properties ?

flintash

murphaph wrote: »

The BER is NOT a measurement of anything. It is not a good idea for people to start relying on them as if they were gospel truths, which they will initially, but they're being sold a bit of a pup.

Unfortunately many people are ignorant of this and will blindly trust these BER ratings and then flip out at their landlords (probably) that their gas bill costs x more than the last place and so on. It's only a matter of time.

NIMAN wrote: »

I had a read through my last BER Cert I got done, and to be honest its a bit waffly, and something that most people could do with little or no training or qualifications.

Mine had a lot of padding, and took pages and pages to say very little. General statements like "energy usage could be improved by using more efficient light bulbs" is bunkum frankly.

And how a rating can be given without having to actually do any physical readings or measurements is beyond me. Looking around the loft to see how much insulation you have, checking you have double glazing, checking your light bulbs, checking what type of oil burner you have etc is not a good enough test of a houses energy rating imho.

daver123 wrote: »

BER is a joke in this country and the sooner people start to realise that the better. I had a survey done on a house and it was a estate agent going around with a clipboard marking things and 20 mins later he was paid 130 euro

Another Irish scam.:mad: And I so hoped you can do something right and useful once in a while. Not a hope. So disappointed . yack. :mad:

NIMAN

I remember a course that was running locally back in the boom for €1200 or €1500 to make you qualified to be a 'BER Assessor'.

My last BER Cert was €180 and I was told it had to be done by a fully qualified person (can't remember exact job title of guy who did it, something like Chartered Architect or Engineer or something - he designed houses and extensions for folk as a main job).

I wasn't in when he came to do the BER Cert (it was a 2nd property I was selling), but when I went to pay him I asked him what he thought of the property and he told me he hadn't done the survey but a 'colleague' had. It could have been a mate he played golf with for all I know, as his own signature was on the Cert!

Scam.

RATM

BER Rating spotted here in this ad after you click 'show more information'
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=687145

BER Rating: F
BER Number: 104854153 (What is BER?)

But in the main most ads seem to be missing the above information. Still though, it's on the way

BostonB

daver123 wrote: »

BER is a joke in this country and the sooner people start to realise that the better. I had a survey done on a house and it was a estate agent going around with a clipboard marking things and 20 mins later he was paid 130 euro

I wonder what impact it will have. Will people wilth older places that can't afford to improve them, and thus get a bad rating simply take them out of the rental market.

seamus

NIMAN wrote: »

I checked out Daft for one, and they are still advertising away. Are they breaking the new law?

My gut feeling is that if the ad was created before 1st January, it's exempt from this law.

odds_on

seamus wrote: »

My gut feeling is that if the ad was created before 1st January, it's exempt from this law.

Copied from SEAI guidelines to S.I. 243 of 2012 EUROPEAN UNION (ENERGY PERFORMANCE OF BUILDINGS) REGULATIONS 2012

A person offering a property for sale or rent on or after 9th January 2013, or their agent, shall ensure that the energy performance indicator of the current BER certificate for the building is stated in any advertisements, where such advertisements are taken relating to the sale or letting of that building.

My interpretation would be that if a property was for sale/rent and advertised on the 9th Jan then the BER rating must be included.

Furthermore, every billboard that you see showing that a house is for sale or rent, should also have the BER rating on it. Thus you could walk down a street/road and see what the rating is for the different properties.

noodler

Clearly Daft are allowing people to post ads without the BER.

RATM

noodler wrote: »

Clearly Daft are allowing people to post ads without the BER.

Yeah they are, and they and other advertisers now appear to be in breach of the law. But this is Ireland and 'ah sure it'll be grand' flows deeply.

In fairness Daft & Myhome are putting steps in place to bring all ads to compliance with the new law. Yes I agree they should have had this done by the 9th of Jan but if it takes till the 9th of Feb then there is no major harm done- the main thing is it will be in.

hadoken13

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this is still not being implemented on Daft and other similar sites. I understand some houses have been advertised before the deadline but there are many that were posted after.

So I guess this will not be carried through unless they are prosecuted for it.

snubbleste

hadoken13 wrote: »

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this is still not being implemented on Daft and other similar sites. I understand some houses have been advertised before the deadline but there are many that were posted after. So I guess this will not be carried through unless they are prosecuted for it.

Complain!
Contact your local authority's building control officer and inform them the legislation is being breached.

hadoken13

snubbleste wrote: »

Complain!
Contact your local authority's building control officer and inform them the legislation is being breached.

I actually sent an email prior to finding this thread. It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

RATM

Like any new law/regulation in Ireland it is one thing bringing it in and a completely different thing is wheather or not it gets enforced. If it doesn't get enforced then really it may as well not be there in the first place.

An easy example is the 30kph speed limit in Dublin city center. We all know it exists but I at least have never seen the Gardai with speed guns on O'Connell Street or elsewhere actually enforcing it. So if people see it isn't being enforced then they break it.

Will be interesting to see how much will there is to enforce the BER regulations. A few fines of landlords or advertisers would soon tow the rest into line but I'm not sure if the powers that be are going to do this. My guess is fining advertisers rather than landlords is the way to go about enforcing it without too much work.

hadoken13

Response from local council:

I refer to your recent query below and wish to advise as follows:
If an owner/landlord has failed to produce a BER certificate for you in connection with a sale or letting you may wish to report this to the Building Control Officer in the Planning Department of . The Building Control Officer has powers to investigate the matter and to prosecute persons (including owners, landlords and estate/letting agents) who fail to meet their obligation to produce a valid BER certificate as required under the Regulations. Prosecution for such an offence may result in a fine not exceeding €5,000.00.

I have cc’d this message to the Planning Department for their attention.

I've asked them to check any of the housing sites i.e. daft, rent, myhome etc. view a letting and request to see a BER Cert. Let's see what they come back with if they bother to do anything at all. If that doesn't work I think I will have to officially report agents/landlords that refuse to show a BER and see if they get the message.

snubbleste

I thought you were going to complain about the non-advertisement of the BER, not the failure to physically produce a cert upon request