UFC on Fox: Henderson vs. Diaz - Saturday December 8

Raekwon

I was actually hoping for a double KO tonight as I find both Henderson & Diaz obnoxious pricks.

Hopefully Anthony Pettis gets the opportunity to beat him again (with added flying fence kicks!) after he defeats Donald Cerrone next month.

JJayoo

You're not paying for a single fight, you're paying for the card.

By your logic, you'd have to have hated JDS v Cain for the title...

The main event is the driving force behind every ppv and it should be able to sell the entire card by its merit alone and the value placed upon winning the belt.

In the perfect world every card would be stacked like tonight, but from the recent Jones V Henderson fcuk up we can see how the main event is the selling point. It shouldn't be just another fight on the card.

JJayoo

Cris Cyborg is a whole different ball game. Rousey won't beat her in one minute or one round. Cyborg'll probably play ping pong with Rousey like she has with everyone else.

I think Cyborg would smash Rousey. Ronda ate a lot of punches from Tate and I feel that cyborg would stun her with the power she has in her hands. You can be sure that Cyborg has been preparing for the fight already drilling armbar defense.

In saying this I really like Ronda and if she grabs a hold of an arm then its game over. People also have to remember that Ronda isn't just a one trick pony and has a huge skill set. A grounded opponent's instant reaction to defend the armbar will leave them open to other submissions. Plus she is pretty.

Scar Tissue

JJayoo wrote: »

The main event is the driving force behind every ppv and it should be able to sell the entire card by its merit alone and the value placed upon winning the belt.

It should be the driving force, as you say, but not the only force behind the card. The UFC 151, that never was, showed the dangers of relying solely on having one good fight amongst a set of arguably poor fights, one bad injury and it's all fúcked. Tonight for example had a strong undercard mixed with a very strong main card, had the Bendo/Diaz fight not gone ahead I still would be happy to see the card on the merit of the other fights.

darced

This post has been deleted.

jayteecork

Where now for Shogun? He simply isn't good enough to mount another title challenge.

Love watching either of the Diaz brothers taunting then getting dropped on their ass a second later

ps: I know fighters like to make money but that "team Metro PCS" thing is downright embarrassing.

Bones has contracts with UFC and Nike and he makes a complete and utter twat out of himself for a wireless company. I was pissed off enough with Anderson, proud father and supreme athlete, coming out covered in Burger King logos. There's a line guys.

Really looking forward to Pettis/Cerrone - has fight of the year all over it.

jayteecork

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Wouldn't be against the four woman tourney though, if they could find four fighters to take part.

Me too, would be a different kind of "four women going at it" to what I'm used to.

Mr. Loverman

Almost a perfect fight by Henderson. Impressive!

And I love the Diaz brothers. They are almost comic book scumbags. Entertaining to watch.

Felt bad for Penn. He got beat up.

El Guapo!

Really great card last night from top to bottom.
BJ is a shadow of his former self and I think I've lost all interest in watching him fight anymore. And I always get caught up in the "BJ is back and he's better than ever" hype. He's been consistently disappointing for a while now.
McDonald really annoyed me with the showboating. I thought he had class but he proved different last night. He would've made a much bigger statement if he finished BJ and showed a bit of humility.

Shogun is never gonna be a title contender again and I hope he hangs up the gloves before he takes too many beatings. I always enjoy watching him fight but he has slowed down over the last few years and he's really not a contender anymore.

I'm not a Bendo fan at all but I was rooting for him last night. The Diaz brothers just annoy me and I think they're both overrated. Nate did well to not get KO'd but he never looked like a danger to Bendo. And the whole, sticking up his fingers while he's in guard just píssed me off. I was hoping he'd just get knocked out straight after that. It's not tough and it doesn't make him look cool. He just looks like an idiot when he's taunting his opponent while getting his ass handed to him.

Overall it was a brilliant card. I haven't enjoyed a card as much as that in a long while.

Mr Blobby

Did Henderson start thanking God after the fight ?

El Guapo!

Sub of the night: Jorgensen
KO of the night: Yves Edwards
Fight of the night: Jorgensen v Albert

$65k a piece for the bonuses.

I thought Cruikshank would've gotten the KO of the night and FOTN bonuses.

Mr. CooL ICE

I was impressed by Trujillo. The man is a beast. Really looking forward to seeing more from him.

Cruickshank was as scary, but he must feel hard done by for not getting a bonus for that.

Siver really impressed me. I was a fan of his ever since he beat Sotiropopolopolous, but I had no idea he would be that dominant.

I honestly believe Gustafsson is ready for a title fight now. I always knew he had the ability, but needed to be tested. The shots he took in that fight shows he has a great chin and great composure. Not sure if he can beat Jones, but it should make a great fight.

Henderson was as impressive as ever. I wanted Diaz to win (I love seeing Jesus freaks lose) but he didn't have any tricks up his sleeve. Henderson had a plan, stuck to it and won. I honestly didn't think he would get the better of the striking, but he did.

El Guapo!

LordChessington wrote: »

I honestly believe Gustafsson is ready for a title fight now. I always knew he had the ability, but needed to be tested. The shots he took in that fight shows he has a great chin and great composure. Not sure if he can beat Jones, but it should make a great fight.

I don't think he's quite ready yet. There's no point in him fighting jones just yet as I think he'd lose if he doesn't improve a bit more.
Id like to see him have one more fight. Possibly against Machida, and see how we'll he performs in that.

I agree about Trujillo. He looks like a serious talent. Totally dominated his fight and I can't wait to see him again.

MrStuffins

What's with everyone getting their period as soon as a fighter does anything other than kiss the arse of their opponent?

Same people probably love Muhammed Ali!

El Guapo!

MrStuffins wrote: »

What's with everyone getting their period as soon as a fighter does anything other than kiss the arse of their opponent?

Same people probably love Muhammed Ali!

Certain people can pull off being cocky and doing the Ali shuffle. McDonald just looked awkward doing it. And he had chances to finish BJ but instead he chose to taunt him.
And to be honest, I think the reason he did it was because he wasn't able to finish him. There was a couple of times when he had BJ hurt up against the cage and he looked like he didn't know what to do next.

MrStuffins

Dean09 wrote: »

Certain people can pull off being cocky and doing the Ali shuffle. McDonald just looked awkward doing it. And he had chances to finish BJ but instead he chose to taunt him.
And to be honest, I think the reason he did it was because he wasn't able to finish him. There was a couple of times when he had BJ hurt up against the cage and he looked like he didn't know what to do next.

Then so be it! I've no idea why people are always so quick to pull the trigger and start using the word "hate" as soon as someone does a bit of showboating.

McDonald felt he had a point to prove and frankly he was multiple levels above BJ last night.

jayteecork

Poor Shogun has been in some wars his last 3 or 4 fights and I think he should walk away right now before he suffers permanent brain damage.

He's already lost his good looks and he has kids to think about. He's easily set up for life at this stage so no point becoming a gatekeeper like Rich Franklin.

He reminds me of Rampage in that his one-dimensional Muay-Thai/wrestling style is hopelessly no good against the new breed in MMA.

Look at his face compared to Machida's. Machida is 34 and still looks in his mid twenties. Machida is old school too but still relevant cause of his weird elusive style.
Looking forward to Lyoto overcoming grandpa Henderson and having another shot at Bones.

(ps: I don't think Gustaffson has a prayer against jones)

El Guapo!

MrStuffins wrote: »

Then so be it! I've no idea why people are always so quick to pull the trigger and start using the word "hate" as soon as someone does a bit of showboating.

McDonald felt he had a point to prove and frankly he was multiple levels above BJ last night.

I wouldn't hate him because of it. And yeah he was miles ahead of BJ last night. Totally out-classed him in every aspect of the fight. I've no problem woth someone doing a bit of showboating, once its done right. But I just don't think the showboating really suits McDonald. He doesn't seem like that type of fighter, and it came across as a bit cringeworthy and forced. Maybe it's because he looks like he works in a library or something. :pac:

El Guapo!

jayteecork wrote: »

He reminds me of Rampage in that his one-dimensional Muay-Thai/wrestling style is hopelessly no good against the new breed in MMA.

Yeah I think that's partly Shoguns problem.
He has great heart and he is a legend of the sport, but age and an inability to keep up with the ever changing sport has caused him to stay still while the younger or more adaptable fighters have passed him by.
I don't want to say its time to retire but I can't see what's next for him other than a few more wars which will certainly take their toll on his already battered body.
It's probably time to hang 'em up Shogun.......and take BJ with you.

El Guapo!

I just remembered Rogan asking Bendo about a toothpick in his mouth during the fight, and at the presser Bendo said he does train with it too.
Anybody have any idea why he'd do that? Or is it just a weird and dangerous habit?

MrStuffins

Dean09 wrote: »

I wouldn't hate him because of it. And yeah he was miles ahead of BJ last night. Totally out-classed him in every aspect of the fight. I've no problem woth someone doing a bit of showboating, once its done right. But I just don't think the showboating really suits McDonald. He doesn't seem like that type of fighter, and it came across as a bit cringeworthy and forced. Maybe it's because he looks like he works in a library or something. :pac:

I thought he looked like Inspector Gadget in that jacket of his!

The Clown Man

Trying to remember when we last had such a ****ing awesome card actually deliver so much ****ing awesome.

Shame I waited so politely and patiently at someone elses party until 3am to find I'd missed the whole thing.

Why was it on early if it was west coast? Was it cause of the Pacquiauauiou Marquerz fight?

Jonah42

Dean09 wrote: »

I just remembered Rogan asking Bendo about a toothpick in his mouth during the fight, and at the presser Bendo said he does train with it too.
Anybody have any idea why he'd do that? Or is it just a weird and dangerous habit?

He said later in the press conference he was only joking.

T-K-O

Henderson is as interesting and funny as a tooth pic

BidillyBo

Jonah42 wrote: »

He said later in the press conference he was only joking.

I don't think he was joking id say he just didn't want to get himself in trouble. your man in danas place more decided it was a joke then ben did.I did see a pic somewhere of him with a tooth pic in his mouth during a fight not sure if it was that fight though

El Guapo!

Yeah there is pics online of last nights fight and you can see the toothpick sticking out of his mouth at certain points.
Also, apparently in between one of the rounds last night, his cornerman said "put that toothpick back in your mouth" or something along those lines.

Elysian

Dean09 wrote: »

Anybody have any idea why he'd do that? Or is it just a weird and dangerous habit?

From what I understand the toothpick is an old school boxing thing. They use it to practice keeping their jaws clenched tight by keeping the toothpick in between the back teeth.

Robdoo

Dean09 wrote: »

Yeah there is pics online of last nights fight and you can see the toothpick sticking out of his mouth at certain points.
Also, apparently in between one of the rounds last night, his cornerman said "put that toothpick back in your mouth" or something along those lines.

BidillyBo

Be like Nutella

McDonald is either settin himself up as a heel or he's a complete knobend IMO. He's good but he's beatable! I'd love to see Condit take him again and KO the fuk outa him!

Shogun does need to walk away although he nearly had Gusto with that sub.. all time respect to Shogun.

Gust would get embarrassed by Bones end of story - he's deadly and he's got heart and he's tough as nails but... not a chance in hell which is a pity.

BJ Penn is a warrior true and true nothing... else to say about him.

Bendo is a beasty beast of a beast.... who punches your leg standing in front of you? who does that? Is that now the Bendo-Leg-Jab? I hate all things Diaz-related but holy sh1t they are animals... Nate was still shaping at the end after a vicious beating, they're not human you have to cremate them and spread their ashes around the world to be sure you've beaten them.

Good card... I say reluctantly coz my deluded mind thought BJ would be such a hero and win.... instead he's just a hero.

MartyMcFly84

I hate to say it but its what I expected from Shogun and BJ.

Shogun has taken too much damage and has been through too many surgeries. The speed and athleticism of his PRIDE days is gone.

I think a big problem with both of these previously amazing fighters was there early success.

Both also started their own fight teams. I think in Shoguns case his decline started not long after leaving Chute Boxe.

When you are the boss and the big fish in the gym, its very hard to get people in who will really push you and tell you the truth if they are working for you. (The yes men factor)

There is a reason why most of the top MMA fighters come from top gyms. You need your partners and coaches to push you on a daily basis. I think this hasn't happened with BJ and Shogun in a long time, and their development and physical conditioning slipped.

I suppose Wandy would be a similar case also.

Xlami

I fight I've wanted for years is Shogun - Anderson. That would be my idea of a super fight. Wonder is Shogun could make 185 he again looked a whole weight class smaller than his opponent on Saturday, same when he fought Jones and Forrest. But even at a catchweight or 205 I have wanted to see this fight for a while and it looked very close to fruition before Chael Sonnen shocked the world at 117.

MartyMcFly84

I fight I've wanted for years is Shogun - Anderson. That would be my idea of a super fight. Wonder is Shogun could make 185 he again looked a whole weight class smaller than his opponent on Saturday, same when he fought Jones and Forrest. But even at a catchweight or 205 I have wanted to see this fight for a while and it looked very close to fruition before Chael Sonnen shocked the world at 117.

I think that would have been a cracker a few years ago at 185. Shogun imo could have easily made 185. He was never a large 205er and always looked a little soft, more so in recent bouts. I think he could of had a longer career at a lighter weight class. Really an undersized light-heavyweight by today's standards.

Same for BJ, he really has no business at 170. Even Matt Hughes who he beat for the title would be undersized these days.

If either of them had a proper management team they would both have moved down and stayed down along time ago.

raven136

MrStuffins wrote: »

What's with everyone getting their period as soon as a fighter does anything other than kiss the arse of their opponent?

Same people probably love Muhammed Ali!

Could be because BJ is a lot of peoples favourite fighter,one of the top fighters of all time,one of those who helped moved the entire mma into a mainstream etc

Because we all want him to retire or fight one last great fight and some kid humilating him isnt something that we want to see at all.

When GSP beat condit the first thing he did was tell everyone how great he was,how tough the fight was and showed some class.

And most of us have never seen Ali fight and how he showboated like Mayweather does.

MartyMcFly84

Could be because BJ is a lot of peoples favourite fighter,one of the top fighters of all time,one of those who helped moved the entire mma into a mainstream etc

Because we all want him to retire or fight one last great fight and some kid humiliating him isnt something that we want to see at all.

BJ has been a far from a respectful fighter in his career also. Remember how he acted how he acted towards Jens Pulver? He harassed him for years. Also how he acted towards GSP ?

He was dismissive and underestimated Rory and I think he p!ssed him off like he did with GSP. Unfortunately for BJ it meant him getting his ass kicked at 170 on both occasions.

BJ was great and could still be a contender at 155. But I dont think he has the motivation to get in shape and make another go of it- Not that he has anything to prove.

If he wanted a swan song, it should have been at his weight class. His last few fights at 170 have done more harm to his legacy than good. (He has balls for not turning down a challenge, but tough is not enough.)

The modern athlete has passed him by and he cant show up half prepared and expect to win anymore.

Ush1

I was suprised how easy it was for Rory in the stand up. I thought if it kept standing BJ might have the upper hand but it was total domination. As Rogan said, he was fading in the very first round, getting battered.

His brother and "cornermen" were a joke and I've no idea about his training camp but he certainly seemed to have no gameplan, no conditioning and not even a whole lot of fight in him. Should definitely retire, that fight has damaged his legacy.

jayteecork

Would like to maybe see a Rampage/Shogun rematch before they head into the sunset.

They're both well past it but I see that fight being a war and a huge PPV magnet so it would be a nice payday for both.

If you haven't already check out an athletic Shogun in his prime delivering one hell of a beatdown to Page at Pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HURawqwJJx4

Raekwon

Yeah Shogun was and absolute beast in Pride, but similar to Wanderlei, he relied heavily on soccer kicks and stomps to win fights which obviously left him at a slight disadvantage in the UFC.

I'm not really sure where he goes from here to be honest. I doubt that he'll get another shot at Jones so the only other option would be to drop down to MW and challenge Silva. He could even fight the winner of Bisping vs Belfort or Chris Weidman to determine the top contender.

If he sticks around at LHW the only fight that seems logical to make would be against Machida and even that looks way off. If he sticks around any longer then he'll sort of become a gate keeper to the division and he'll probably only be matched with other fringe contenders like Ryan Bader or Phil Davis.

jayteecork

I wouldn't put Phil Davis in that category besides the Rashad fight he's looked awesome.

Raekwon

Yeah sorry, that is true, he did defeat Gustafsson rather convincingly. Actually I'd like nothing better to see him slap the Mr Wonderful on Jones. Better join the queue.

MartyMcFly84

I don't know if he has it in him to make a run at MW although I would like to see it.

Would be interesting to see if he joins a proper fight team/camp, gets some cardio, speed and fights people his own size.

Its the only thing that makes sense now apart from that is a one off with Rampage for old time sake and the payday, as mentioned above.

nino1

The ease at which henderson exposed Diaz's wrestling weakness demonstrates just how pointless the proposed GSP Nick Diaz fight is as he has a very similiar style to his brother and his wrestling is equally as weak.

MartyMcFly84

Abel Trujillo really stood out for me on this card. The guy is a monster at 155 and training at Blackzilians. My ribs were hurting watching him launching those knees into Marcus LeVesseur at the end.

I actually preferred the prelim fights to the main card. The fights were more entertaining and competitive, exciting finishes also.

Raekwon

nino1 wrote: »

The ease at which henderson exposed Diaz's wrestling weakness demonstrates just how pointless the proposed GSP Nick Diaz fight is as he has a very similiar style to his brother and his wrestling is equally as weak.

True, but Nick is a much more rounded fighter then Nate, and without trying to sound to much like Joe Rogan, has way better boxing skills. He also trains in Sambo as well as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu so he'd be a very tough opponent for GSP in my opinion, even though I can't see Diaz winning.

El Guapo!

Raekwon wrote: »

True, but Nick is a much more rounded fighter then Nate, and without trying to sound to much like Joe Rogan, has way better boxing skills. He also trains in Sambo as well as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu so he'd be a very tough opponent for GSP in my opinion, even though I can't see Diaz winning.

But GSP is no slouch on the ground either. Remember how everyone said he'd be lost against Jake Shields due to Shields' bjj skills?
GSP is excellent on the ground and is probably the most well rounded fighter in the sport at the minute.
I'd also argue that GSP's boxing is probably just as good as Diaz.
Either way, GSP wins this fight all day long in my opinion. And there's nothing "super" about this fight at all. Just a bad night for Nick Diaz.

reganreggie

Dont think gsp striking is close to diaz but the fact he is superhuman means he will defeat diaz comfortably

mdwexford

GSP would beat Nick comfortably but Nick is in a different league to Nate imo.

p to the e

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Abel Trujillo really stood out for me on this card. The guy is a monster at 155 and training at Blackzilians. My ribs were hurting watching him launching those knees into Marcus LeVesseur at the end.

I actually preferred the prelim fights to the main card. The fights were more entertaining and competitive, exciting finishes also.

Some fantastic undercard fights. Siver tenderised Nam Phan quite a bit. He's looking a beast at Featherweight.

Don't know if Scott Jorgensen vs. John Albert warranted fight of the night but it was nice to see the smaller hyped fights get it.

Mike Easton was on quite the streak until this card. I never saw him beating Ivan Menjivar in his last fight but he pulled it off. Now however he's back down the pecking order.

What a KO by Yves Edwards. There's life in the old dog yet. I hope he gets his fight with Cerrone. What a scrap that would be.

El Guapo!

The salaries for the event have been released.
I'm surprised Nate Diaz was earning more for the fight than Henderson. I'm sure Bendo will be working to renegotiate his contract fairly sharpish.
And no wonder BJ is in no rush to retire when he's still getting $150k a fight.


FOX main card:
Benson Henderson ($39,000 + $39,000 = $78,000) def. Nate Diaz ($50,000)
Alexander Gustafsson ($30,000 + $30,000 = $60,000) def. Mauricio Rua ($175,000)
Rory MacDonald ($21,000 + $21,000 = $42,000) def. B.J. Penn ($150,000)
Matt Brown ($27,000 + $27,000 = $54,000) def. Mike Swick ($48,000)

FX preliminary card:
Yves Edwards ($16,000 + $16,000 = $32,000) def. Jeremy Stephens ($24,000)
Raphael Assuncao ($19,000 + $19,000 = $38,000) def. Mike Easton ($14,000)
Ramsey Nijem ($10,000 + $10,000 = $20,000) def. Joe Proctor ($8,000)
Daron Cruickshank ($8,000 + $8,000 = $16,000) def. Henry Martinez ($8,000)
Abel Trujillo ($6,000 + $6,000 = $12,000) def. Marcus LeVesseur ($8,000)
Dennis Siver ($31,000 + $31,000 = $62,000) def. Nam Phan ($10,000)

Facebook preliminary card:
Scott Jorgensen ($20,500 + $20,500 = $41,000) def. John Albert ($10,000)

jayteecork

Any of those also get PPV money? I presume the lads in title bouts always get some sort of piece of it??