The Americans [FX - Spoilers]

DMcL1971

Yes, that took me by surprise and I wasn't aware that Matthew Rhys is Welsh. They both make very convincing Americans (or Russians pretending to be Americans!).

Black Menorca

Matthew has a heavy Welsh accent, I'd say he's a native Welsh speaker too. Yes excellent voice coaching.

The Black Oil

Got through 2 more episodes of the Rise Comrades podcast, I'll drop it for now. Am about half way through one of WTA - those folks seem more confident in their presentation style.

Kirby

Looks like Pastor Tim will get to meet his maker in next years premiere.

I hate the long wait....

DMcL1971

That was a fantastic season finale! It's gonna be a long wait to see where things go next.

Kilkenny14

Great finale. Philip came really close to telling Elizabeth he is at breaking point, but she couldn't drop her focus away from Reagan to see it.

Matthew Rhys deserves an Emmy for his acting this season, but everyone on the show has been killing it.

It's going to be a long wait, but I am really glad there is a season 4.

snubbleste

It's almost like the Dallas cliffhanger of old.
Excellent show

DMcL1971

Beware season finale spoiler below!!!

A model for a great season finale, every characters plotline was addressed and they all took a step forward and a twist at the same time. Very satisfying and really sets things up well for the next season.

I really didn't see it coming that Philip would kill the FBI IT guy and stage it as a suicide. That should get Martha off the hook. But as Elizabeth correctly points out there is no way of knwing how Martha might react to this. I'm sure she will be relieveved that the FBI won't be looking at her anymore, but she is going to feel enormous guilt over her causing a death. Also, in her eyes Clarke (Philip) has now gone from a liar to a murderer. Considering how badly she has taken the fact that she was lied to, god only kows how she will react to this. Her world has really fallen apart in such a short time. She has gone from thinking she was doing a noble thing in helping Clarke, to finding out that she was unwittingly commiting treason and it now responsible for a murder.

Stan had a great episode. He thought he did the right thing. Then was crushed by Gaad's reaction and thought his career was over. Then it all turned around for him and he gets to be the hero. It is s a shame though that he couldn't help Nina. He now seems to be the golden boy in Gaad's superiors eyes. This may encourage him to follow up on any other hunches he might have like, why is Martha acting strange. Also he won't have to take any more suspicion from Aderholt. Then to cap it all off he has a new buddy in Henry to keep him company.

Elizabeth got to see her mother. She seems to think that things went really well with Paige and that she is on the right track for her future budding spy career. However, Paige breaks down and spills the beans to Pastor Tim. This could mean that Pastor Tim tells the authorities or he confronts Philip and Elizabeth, which would sign his own death warrant or he keeps it to himself and it ticks like a time bomb thoughout season 4 or no doubt something much cleverer that the writers can come up with.

Poor Nina, I can't tell for sure anymore whether she is being honest or lying to save herself. Even when she tells the truth I can't tell whether she is really opening up or just trying to win over somenes trust in order to take advantage of them.

Philip, wow, he is really close to cracking. It has been a slow built but Gabriel has been treating him badly, he was straining from the Kimmy situation, he was pressured over Paige, pressured over Martha. Everywhere there is pressure and he is constantly being forced to do things he doesn't want to do. Killing the innocent IT guy might just be the final straw. He then finds himself going to EST meetings because he is not happy and doesn't know why and is looking for answers. EST then teaches about being true to yourself and doing what you want and what is right for yourself rather than others. All this is pushing him over the edge.

This show just gets better and better. In my opinion it is right up there with the greats like The Wire or Breaking Bad. If they can keep up this level of quality writing I hope it continues for a few more seasons.

Fred Swanson

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FloatingVoter

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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...I was remembering how the games were so much better back then. Nice to see them really blowing the budget on the trip to Europe.

Black Menorca

Going to watch the final episode now. Quite emotional actually.
See you in an hour.

Black Menorca

"I'm sorry I never got to meet her", You wouldn't have liked her"

"Yousef, I feel like sh*t all the time"

"Do you give a sh*t about the Beureau, Stan?"

The meeting. I was in floods of tears.

Not trading Nina! Poor Stan.

Philip having a breakdown, Paige squealing to Pastor Tim and Ronnie p*ssing off Elizabeth on TV.

Wow, just wow!

Fred Swanson

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The Black Oil

One does not simply walk into an EST meeting.

3.13

Oh, I loved that finale. That is how you do character work, completely and utterly. Different to what they've done before with wigs, car chases, intel and an 80s tune to cap things off, but still delivered. An episode of lies and harsh truths. Everyone is hurting. Floppy disks, how are ye? Henry's Stratomatic football. :cool:

So much of a family theme going on. The opener with the glance Paige and Elizabeth gave each other on the airport escalator, Elizabeth's mother, Elizabeth and Philip, Stan and Sandra's house scene, and though Martha didn't feature, she wanted a family this year.

I think I spotted a Porsche in the background in Berlin. :P Stan's fixation on Nina is tricky one, no wonder he's a bit up the creek, but some relief following the intervention of the senior bloke who understands the need for being unconventional. I did like that Aderholt got to lead the arrest of the defector, such an unimpressed look on her face!

Most intriguing scene? IMO, Sandra talking to Philip, second time around. Also thought the scientist's line about them only having your body felt important.

Did you notice how the camera frequently lingered on Philip a few times through the ep, and pulled tight on Elizabeth near the end of Reagan's speech? Felt telling.

And then there's Paige...

FloatingVoter

Here's the 2nd best actor to ever inhabit the Oval Office (Bill Clinton outpoints him on not having sexual relations or inhaling).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0NXs_uWPgg

....da doooooh Ron Ron Ron, da dooohhh Ron Ron.

zeffabelli

I loved watching language completely fail in the scene with Phillip and Elizabeth.

I also loved the foiling of Reagan's speech with Paige's monologue. Paige is growing up in a culture where her parents are essentially Satan, and here she is reaching out to the pastor. How will this affect her self perception and identity? I feel for Paige. You could see in Elizabeth's face that Reagan was really upping teh ante on the cold war.

As for EST, I remember accidentally ending up in a meeting once. I was invited to dinner but wasn't told it was an EST meeting. Thought of as for fruitcakes at the time.

I think this episode very robustly asked the questions, what is family....and extends that to what is tribe..belonging... as well as the fall outs of deceptions and the loss of our illusions.

expectationlost

'from now on I need to be able to know — what I'm doing better, so I' ?

is saying what im doing better help my 3 kids?

although that doesn't really fit the sentence he was saying.

The Black Oil

Read comments that some people think the pastor might work for Gabriel...

I was reading a review of another show before watching this and one of the articles in the sidebar had a headline about Paige's phone call. Took away from my viewing a little.

Father Rabulah Conundrum

It's amazing that Philip can elicit audience sympathy not ten minutes after he's murdered someone who was essentially innocent.

Black Menorca

Paige is unbelievable.

Her mother takes her to Russia to see her grandmother and how does she thank her?

Squealing to Pastor Tim. Little wench!

I like the idea of Tim working for Gabriel.

drugstore cowboy

The Black Oil wrote: »

Read comments that some people think the pastor might work for Gabriel...

I was reading a review of another show before watching this and one of the articles in the sidebar had a headline about Paige's phone call. Took away from my viewing a little.

Doesn't the pastor organize anti war protests & wasn't there one scene of Paige at a nuclear plant protesting?

The authorities would have been looking at the adult leaders of those things and it could draw unwanted attention.

It's possible that he has been recruited off screen but I'm leaning towards the good Pastor Tim pulling a blackmail scam on our KGB heroes which won't end well!

DMcL1971

I don't think Pastor Tim is a spy. The show is grounded in realism. If characters who are not already established to be part of the spy game suddenly start revealing themselves to be something completely different than we have been lead to believe, then the whole show loses its realistic grounding and would just get silly. They might as well just start making it up as they go along just for the shock value each week. I would be pretty quick about turning off if suddenly Pastor Tim is FBI or KGB or CIA and Henry joins the mafia.

Characters who are already spies can certainly swap sides or act as double agents or go rogue. We have already seen Nina switch sides and Martha has unwittingly found herself changing from a loyal FBI employee to a traitorous spy. Philip could defect or become a double agent, Paige could become a Russian spy or could become an American spy watching her own parents. The whole Jennings clan could go on the run from both the KGB and the FBI. Martha or Pastor Tim can get bumped off at any minute. With the season finale showing Reagan being openly antagonistic to the Russians maybe they will respond by increasing activity in America and sending more spies.

There are a lot of places for this show to go and judging by the quality of writing seen in this season I have no doubt that they will come with even more twists and turns, creating even more pressure.

expectationlost

so the girl on the bus, was just a random girl, surely the center has planned for the second generation a bit more then that, letting them figure it out and freak out.

although they didn't do so well with the other guy

Kirby

expectationlost wrote: »

so the girl on the bus, was just a random girl, surely the center has planned for the second generation a bit more then that, letting them figure it out and freak out.

although they didn't do so well with the other guy

I'm pretty sure they planned to do something with that but ended up dropping the story line. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

SoftMicro

Kirby wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they planned to do something with that but ended up dropping the story line. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

I thought she was a spy at the time.

DMcL1971

expectationlost wrote: »

so the girl on the bus, was just a random girl, surely the center has planned for the second generation a bit more then that, letting them figure it out and freak out.

although they didn't do so well with the other guy

The purpose of the girl on the bus was to introduce Paige to the church group. She told Paige all about Jesus, got her involved in protests and introduced her to Pastor Tim. It was around the same time that that the centre started suggesting that Paige be told the truth and start the recruitment process.

I think the writers purposely introduced the idea of recruitment to the KGB and recruitment to the church at the same time in order to make the viewers think that the indoctrination to the church might have been the centre operating without Philip and Elizabeth's permission. When in fact the two were not connected.

The centres intention was not to let Paige figure it out on her own, but for her parents to tell her and indoctrinate her. Elizabeth was in favour of this approach but wanted to proceed slowly, Philip was dead set against it. Philip did not think that Paige would ever figure it out and that she would lead a happy spy-free American life. He didn't account for the fact that his daughter is smarter and more intuitive than he realised.

zeffabelli

DMcL1971 wrote: »

The purpose of the girl on the bus was to introduce Paige to the church group. She told Paige all about Jesus, got her involved in protests and introduced her to Pastor Tim. It was around the same time that that the centre started suggesting that Paige be told the truth and start the recruitment process.

I think the writers purposely introduced the idea of recruitment to the KGB and recruitment to the church at the same time in order to make the viewers think that the indoctrination to the church might have been the centre operating without Philip and Elizabeth's permission. When in fact the two were not connected.

The centres intention was not to let Paige figure it out on her own, but for her parents to tell her and indoctrinate her. Elizabeth was in favour of this approach but wanted to proceed slowly, Philip was dead set against it. Philip did not think that Paige would ever figure it out and that she would lead a happy spy-free American life. He didn't account for the fact that his daughter is smarter and more intuitive than he realised.

I think there are a couple of things at play here with the foil being used in these particular plot devices.

One is to show how indoctrination works and to provide competing ideologies over the same subject (Paige.) It also demonstrates how you can't escape culture - and this is pertinant to any immigrant who raises their child in a foreign culture to their own- that child cannot escape the culture you are raising them in. Paige is American and to some extent Phillip is too. It is inescapable.

This is where Eizabeth and Gabrielle have tremendous blind spots, as do many foreigners raising their kids in the US.

The second thing is does is bring a paranoia and suspiciousness into the mind of the viewer. We are now in an age of suspicion, particuarly in the US, where everyone is a suspect, with the NSA, with the Patriot act, even in family courts, suspicion is enough to persecute and convict. The espionage has literally become domesticated, just as it has in the Americans, where we have our neighbors as spies. Espionage has now infiltrated every American home.

DMcL1971

That's what I love about this show, there is a lot more going on in it than meets the eye.

Black Menorca

Paige is a Benedict Arnold.

I loved her character. I thought she'd take this information on.

But running, sniveling to Tim?

Big let down, especially after Elizabeth gave her the gift of meeting her grandmother for the one and only time.

zeffabelli

Black Menorca wrote: »

Paige is a Benedict Arnold.

I loved her character. I thought she'd take this information on.

But running, sniveling to Tim?

Big let down, especially after Elizabeth gave her the gift of meeting her grandmother for the one and only time.

She is to her family but not to her nation.

Paige is in an impossible double-bind.

Black Menorca

zeffabelli wrote: »

She is to her family but not to her nation.

Paige is in an impossible double-bind.

So now she's an American patriot?

I don't but that for a second.

She was pontificating from on high a few episodes ago about her parents not being honest with her. They could have kept up the charade.

But, instead, they give her the ultimate trust in revealing all, as best they probably could in the circumstances.

She goes mute for a show and a half and then is given a golden opportunity to get a glimpse of her parents roots, her roots. Meets her dying grandmother, shares that hugely emotional moment, prays for her in the jacks with her mother bereft on the floor beside her.

Then, once back home, she stabs her parents in the back.

So disappointed in her.

Kirby

Black Menorca wrote: »

So now she's an American patriot?

I don't but that for a second.

She was pontificating from on high a few episodes ago about her parents not being honest with her. They could have kept up the charade.

But, instead, they give her the ultimate trust in revealing all, as best they probably could in the circumstances.

She goes mute for a show and a half and then is given a golden opportunity to get a glimpse of her parents roots, her roots. Meets her dying grandmother, shares that hugely emotional moment, prays for her in the jacks with her mother bereft on the floor beside her.

Then, once back home, she stabs her parents in the back.

So disappointed in her.

But it's a natural reaction. It would be contrived for her to be all "for the motherland!" after a few weeks.

Black Menorca

Kirby wrote: »

But it's a natural reaction. It would be contrived for her to be all "for the motherland!" after a few weeks.

Its not an either or situation.

We're supposed to believe Paige is mature for her age. An independent thinker, principled.

Her parents show her the ultimate respect, taking a massive risk. Introduces her to family roots.

Someone of Paige's supposed maturity should have at least tried to meet them halfway. Learn more as weeks and months went on.

But she showed a spiritual redundancy, a complete lack of empathy for Elizabeth as she said goodbye to her for the last time.

With no care for Henry, within minutes of arriving home she betrays her parents in a selfish and despicable manner.

Screw you Paige.

MagicMarker

Black Menorca wrote: »

Its not an either or situation.

We're supposed to believe Paige is mature for her age. An independent thinker, principled.

Her parents show her the ultimate respect, taking a massive risk. Introduces her to family roots.

Someone of Paige's supposed maturity should have at least tried to meet them halfway. Learn more as weeks and months went on.

But she showed a spiritual redundancy, a complete lack of empathy for Elizabeth as she said goodbye to her for the last time.

With no care for Henry, within minutes of arriving home she betrays her parents in a selfish and despicable manner.

Screw you Paige.

It's not real, maybe go for a walk?

Black Menorca

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's not real, maybe go for a walk?

Condescending posts don't become you.

Black Menorca

Paige is dead to me, just to be sure you all know where I stand.

The Black Oil

Black Menorca wrote: »

Paige is unbelievable.

Her mother takes her to Russia to see her grandmother and how does she thank her?

Squealing to Pastor Tim. Little wench!

Context.

Paige's world's been turned upside down. All of this has been building since season 1 such as when she was poking around the laundry room, to the reveal a few episodes back, which Elizabeth was actually unable to voice in those first few seconds in the kitchen, despite having told her things in previous episodes. It's a show that simultaneously depicts divided and united loyalties, professional and personal. Look at Martha's situation, for example, or Stan and Oleg, Stan and Nina, Gabriel and Philip, even Philip and Elizabeth...they've all quarrelled and hidden things based on what's right for their circumstances, and they've pushed the boundaries of trust. Most of the key adults in this story have lied through and through at some point, not just out of professional duty.

Telling Paige was a mental breaking point and that could only go so far. The trip to Berlin was obviously about a lot more than seeing her grandmother. It was like a mirror being held up to show the demands on Elizabeth's life. Paige's praying was probably the only emotional coping tool she felt she had. Admittedly we don't have much profile on him, but right now, Pastor Tim is the only stable (in her eyes, reliable) and trustworthy adult figure in her life. Rightly or wrongly, that's what counts.

Black Menorca

Putting a particular context to try and mitigate Paige's trechery won't wash with me I'm afraid.

I already gave you a counter context that condemns Paige and her betrayal of her family.

Calibos

They're Liars...They're not Americans...They're Russians!!

Yeah, So's my Local Baker!!

I don't think this is the big deal we all imagine its going to be in Season 4.

Paige never said the word 'Spies'.

Paige will pull back from the precipice of full disclosure and It'll be explained away to Pastor Tims satisfaction that they're just 'Illegal Immigrants' as opposed to 'The Illegals' (off which the general public know nothing about)........or he's a dead man

The Black Oil

Black Menorca wrote: »

Putting a particular context to try and mitigate Paige's trechery won't wash with me I'm afraid.

I already gave you a counter context that condemns Paige and her betrayal of her family.

Aside from the genuine love of her parents, the story of the Jennings is a sham. Your language is how it feels in her head, I reckon.

zeffabelli

Black Menorca wrote: »

Putting a particular context to try and mitigate Paige's trechery won't wash with me I'm afraid.

I already gave you a counter context that condemns Paige and her betrayal of her family.

You are only perceiving it as a betrayal because you have developed loyalty to the main characters.

Paige perceives what her parents did, a life long journey of lies and deception, as a massive betrayal, which it is.

You cannot reasonably expect your children to carry all your secrets and lies.

As someone else pointed out, Paige said "Russians." WE don't know how the rest will play out. For all we know he will assume they are defectors, of which there were many at the time.

Outkast_IRE

What are the odds the "centre" is monitoring all the calls in and out of the house anyway ?

The Black Oil

It may well be that we're overanalysing it. The arguments in the writers' room have come down that final scene to create a perception of 'oh, the show is going there'. The ramifications of this are unknown and we won't get any hints until a trailer next January (boo!). According to Twitter, the writers are trying to break season 4 at the moment. As for the frequent commentary/speculation in this thread about Philip going to Stan, despite shades of Philip's own feeling of disillusionment I think we're still a long way off from Stan seeing spy Philip as opposed to neighbour Philip. The FBI is still miles behind with internal security issues, little actionable intel (that might change with Stan's new situation), which as some have suggested elsewhere, might be why the viewership is low.

zeffabelli

The Black Oil wrote: »

It may well be that we're overanalysing it. The arguments in the writers' room have come down that final scene to create a perception of 'oh, the show is going there'. The ramifications of this are unknown and we won't get any hints until a trailer next January (boo!). According to Twitter, the writers are trying to break season 4 at the moment. As for the frequent commentary/speculation in this thread about Philip going to Stan, despite shades of Philip's own feeling of disillusionment I think we're still a long way off from Stan seeing spy Philip as opposed to neighbour Philip. The FBI is still miles behind with internal security issues, little actionable intel (that might change with Stan's new situation), which as some have suggested elsewhere, might be why the viewership is low.

I don; think Phillip is going to go to Stan. But I do think they know more about Martha back at headquarters then they are letting on to the audience. I don't think we have seen the end of that.

It's given depth by the fatherson switch arounds. Stan has lost a relationship with his son via the divorce, and we see more of Harry having a father son relationship with Stan than we see him doing this with his own father, Phillip.

How the Jennings are going to keep this all under wraps from Henry will be interesting to see.

Outkast_IRE

I honestly think the show has done a marvelous job of making viewers feel conflicted about who to root for.

The things that Philip and Elizabeth have done are horrendous, killing complete innocents on a regular basis. The show has highlighted this a lot in the past few episodes. These are not good people, they were twisted to follow a flawed logic.

Ultimately Paige doesnt know what her parents are up to, but if she had any inkling i think she would be going to the police and not pastor Tim.

zeffabelli

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I honestly think the show has done a marvelous job of making viewers feel conflicted about who to root for.

The things that Philip and Elizabeth have done are horrendous, killing complete innocents on a regular basis. The show has highlighted this a lot in the past few episodes. These are not good people, they were twisted to follow a flawed logic.

Ultimately Paige doesnt know what her parents are up to, but if she had any inkling i think she would be going to the police and not pastor Tim.

This is the essential of tragedy, where every party believes they are doing the right thing, but those right things end up in collision.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Hopefully they kill that snot nosed prick Pastor Tim and then yes, hard as it may be they should just continue and kill annoying whiney sap Paige and be done with it.

The son seems like great craic, he'll be better.

Black Menorca

nm wrote: »

Hopefully they kill that snot nosed prick Pastor Tim and then yes, hard as it may be they should just continue and kill annoying whiney sap Paige and be done with it.

The son seems like great craic, he'll be better.

Paige, probably the most ungrateful daughter in tv history.

Kilkenny14

I wouldn't see Paige as ungrateful to her parents. Is she more ungrateful than, say Meadow Soprano?

Fred Swanson

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