The Americans [FX - Spoilers]

coL

Did we ever find out why the FBI/CIA were following them in one of the previous episodes after they looked at the house that was for sale? I was expecting a bit more of an explanation on that and how the CIA/FBI knew to follow them. Also thought it might play in to an arc where the net was closing in on them. Seems like it has all been forgotten about by everyone.

The Black Oil

I can't remember, either. I think they figured the CIA were targets due to operations in Afghanistan. That, that plus the sketch of Elizabeth after she clobbered Gaad and co. on the street.

iguana

That was explained within the episode. Before they went to the house Philip and Gabriel discussed how it was almost certain that the CIA would be watching their Afghan group and when P and E kept driving around the area so they could listen to the bug, the CIA would know they were spying.

Calibos

Black Menorca wrote: »

Speaking of the car death. Do we know why it had to happen?

The guy worked for Norcorp (or whatever the company's called).

Northrop Grumman builders of the B2 Stealth Bomber



http://www.northropgrumman.com/Pages/default.aspx

The Black Oil

Hell of a machine.

Black Menorca

Anyone watch Born Again, episode 6?

Quite low key for most of the show but then the last 5 minutes take off.

I like the way Elizabeth structured the reveal, to be.

squonk

I'm hoping Paige takes her dad's advice. I'm finding the whole 'prep Paige' storyline a bit distateful which is no doubt the point. I'm hoping it all blows up on Elizabeth. I definitely am in the Philip camp this season. Between hating how they're trying to convert Paige, it's awful what is happening with the young girl as well. I'm wondering how long it'll be before Philip is pushed over the edge. He's doing a brilliant job stalling the inevitable sleepover but I'm sure that can only last so long as well.

drugstore cowboy

squonk wrote: »

I'm hoping Paige takes her dad's advice. I'm finding the whole 'prep Paige' storyline a bit distateful which is no doubt the point. I'm hoping it all blows up on Elizabeth. I definitely am in the Philip camp this season. Between hating how they're trying to convert Paige, it's awful what is happening with the young girl as well. I'm wondering how long it'll be before Philip is pushed over the edge. He's doing a brilliant job stalling the inevitable sleepover but I'm sure that can only last so long as well.

I think the final ever episodes will basically be Philip V Elizabeth. Philip turns to Stan, admits everything maybe?

FloatingVoter

I loved the "Jesus came through for me" line. Using your daughter's religion to get out of sleeping with jailbait. And explaining it to the missus while getting stoned. I'd have made a grand wee spy.

vepyewwo

drugstore cowboy wrote: »

I think the final ever episodes will basically be Philip V Elizabeth. Philip turns to Stan, admits everything maybe?

Even if this is leading to a major falling out over the Paige thing, I still can't imagine Philip ever betraying Elizabeth to the US.

Black Menorca

But Elizabeth is making it seem herself and Philip were student activist types. Not Russian spies. I know its only the beginning of the process.

Its going to be a massive jump from that to betraying the Stars and Stripes. Intriguing to observe, hopefully.

Will Philip find God? Turn to the Pastor in his time of crisis?

DMcL1971

Philip is dead set against involving Paige in the spy business. He knows that she has a better life as an innocent American than either he or Elizabeth had in the programme. This has been brought more clearly into focus for him recently as he finds himself being forced to take advantage of Kimberley, who is around the same age as Paige. He feels enormous guilt over having to manipulate Kimberley's emotions and does not want to find himself having to manipulate Paige into doing anything in the future. He wants a better life for her. He also doesn't want to see Paige going through what I think they referred to in previous episodes as 'Honey Pot' training where Paige, as both Philip and Elizabeth before her, would find herself having to have sex with and fake relationships with people in order to take advantage of them. Even if he still believes in the cause for which he is fighting, he is not willing to sacrifice his daughters well being and her emotional stability for it. This is why he has been resistant to any attempt to try and indoctrinate Paige.

However, Elizabeth seems much more Machiavellian in her attitude and is willing to force Paige to make the same sacrifices that Elizabeth chose to, for the good of the mother land. As of this episode it seems that Elizabeth has figured out a way to get Paige involved. It seems to me that we know that as part of her church work Paige has been involved with the anti-apartheid movement. We now know that Hans is also in an anti-apartheid group and that CIA/NIS/South African Intelligence are infiltrating these groups and planning to attack them. This probably seems, to Elizabeth, like a good opportunity to get Paige involved in one of these groups, presumably Hans' group. That is why she is telling Paige about her previous involvement in civil rights groups and hinting that sometimes more direct action is required.

If that is Elizabeth's intent and Philip finds out, there is no telling how he might react. This could turn Philip against Elizabeth or even turn Philip against the entire Russian system and cause him to defect. If so, then we could find Philip working for the FBI as a double agent against Elizabeth.

Either way, I can't wait to find out what happens next.

Black Menorca

Philip working for Stan? I love that idea!

vepyewwo

DMcL1971 wrote: »

If that is Elizabeth's intent and Philip finds out, there is no telling how he might react. This could turn Philip against Elizabeth or even turn Philip against the entire Russian system and cause him to defect. If so, then we could find Philip working for the FBI as a double agent against Elizabeth.

Either way, I can't wait to find out what happens next.

I could easily see Philip wanting to defect because of the Paige issue. IIRC, it was hinted at in the pilot episode that he would be willing to do this, particularly for the sake of the kids. It always seemed more that Philip joined the KGB because he wanted to be a spy and he was good at it, rather than because he was a hardcore Mother Russia type like Elizabeth. However, I don't see him turning to Stan in this case, I think it would be much more likely that he'd take Henry and Paige and run.

What would really surprise me is if he ever turned on or against Elizabeth. This would seem totally out of character for me. One of the main themes of the series to me is that no matter what, even at their most distant moments, there is 100% trust between them with regard to their KGB work. The recent tooth pulling scene just further illustrated this.

So Philip eventually taking Paige and Henry and reluctantly leaving Elizabeth behind? Yeah I could believe that. Philip deliberately betraying her to the US? No way.

iguana

Unfortunately with the way this show is shedding viewers I fear we may never know how things pan out. I really really hope it doesn't happen as this is my favourite current show. But the only way FX will commission a fourth series is if they want it as a prestige show as the critics rave about it.

jack presley

iguana wrote: »

Unfortunately with the way this show is shedding viewers I fear we may never know how things pan out. I really really hope it doesn't happen as this is my favourite current show. But the only way FX will commission a fourth series is if they want it as a prestige show as the critics rave about it.

Are the ratings bad? That's a pity? I was hoping we'd see it through to the Berlin Wall falling.

Do you reckon it's because the leads are fighting against America that it isn't popular? It ticks all the boxes for a successful series so there must be a reason why people aren't watching.

iguana

I'd say that has a lot to do with it though a common complaint is that it's boring.

The Black Oil

3.06

Previously on Soldiers of Christ...

Elizabeth? Praying?! And that final scene, damn. I also like how determined Gabriel is.

Henry needs a spin off show. He could give lessons on dinner table etiquette. Glass of plonk for Nina, then the heavy footsteps.

Yo, mail robot! Less access to classified files for Martha, perhaps? Harking back to Stan's dream in 2.13?

'But at the end, they loved their countries more than they loved me'.

DMcL1971

The Black Oil wrote: »

Yo, mail robot! Less access to classified files for Martha, perhaps? Harking back to Stan's dream in 2.13?

If Martha no longer has access to classified info then maybe she is not of much use to Philip (Clark) anymore. Time for a divorce or a faked death to get him out of the adoption and the marriage. (Not until they finish the rest of the Karma Sutra though):)

Kilkenny14

iguana wrote: »

I'd say that has a lot to do with it though a common complaint is that it's boring.

Mad Men has the same problem. It would be a real shame if it doesn't get an audience just for that reason.

Also Martha's face when she found out Mail Robot doesn't have classified files was full of fear. It will be interesting to see when she tells Philip.

The Black Oil

https://twitter.com/FBImailrobot/status/570921912081256448

:pac:

DMcL1971

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

Mad Men has the same problem. It would be a real shame if it doesn't get an audience just for that reason.

Good point. I get the impression that although the ratings are not high its great critical acclaim makes it one of FX's flagship shows. I hope that more people will discover this show. As you point out, Mad Men doesn't have any action but that hasn't stopped it from becoming successful. Not very many people watched Breaking Bad during its first two seasons but word of mouth eventually got out. It would be great if people started binge watching the first two seasons and then maybe it will take off.

John Landgraf, the CEO of FX Networks in February said "I think it'll be at least five [seasons]. Of course, continued renewals will depend on ratings and whether or not the show continues to operate at the same level of quality as the first two seasons."

In my opinion, quality certainly hasn't dropped, so unless the ratings kill it it should go on for a while (fingers crossed).

iguana

The quality is fantastic and the writing is excellent. There are things you have to suspend your disbelief at but it sticks to it's internal logic. And it's wonderfully acted. I think the show is so complex that casual viewers will think not much is happening when it really is. Complaints I read on American forums about this week's ep are that all the FBI did was change some administrative procedure with the mailbot. Lots of time was given to Paige's baptism and at the end Elizabeth didn't have time to tell her she's a spy. And that the Philip Kimmie thing is gross and going around in circles.

All of those things are pretty important steps in the bigger stories but if you just dipped in and out you wouldn't get it.

The Black Oil

On the 'boring' perspective, and other complaints, Grantland have a piece up on why people need to watch.

Black Menorca

DMcL1971 wrote: »

If Martha no longer has access to classified info then maybe she is not of much use to Philip (Clark) anymore. Time for a divorce or a faked death to get him out of the adoption and the marriage. (Not until they finish the rest of the Karma Sutra though):)

Clark 'dies', Martha cries on Stan's shoulder, they date and Stan invites Philip and Elizabeth over for dinner to meet his new flame.

The Black Oil

https://twitter.com/tvoti/status/573300325588721664

https://twitter.com/tvoti/status/573305647707512832

If a boatload of people started streaming it legally, would that help? Or only if they transitioned to watching season 3 as well?

DMcL1971

Loads of spoilers below, don't read if you haven't watched Episode 307 - Walter Taffet.

Another great episode. I see this one was directed by Noah Emmerich who plays Stan Beeman. Good music too, I hadn't heard Fleetwood Mac's 'The Chain' in years. It was a good choice and reminded me that they previously used Fleetwood Mac's 'Tusk' back in the pilot.

Philip got two great new wigs. Jack with his blonde curls in the restaurant and the Ramones style look he was sporting at the diner at the end.

Martha had a tough episode and seems to be getting suspicious of Philip (Clarke). Also, between her not being able to get any more info through mailbot and now the bug (which I had forgotten about) being discovered, soon she will be more of a liability than an asset. Will she turn Clarke in, will she try to kill him, will he kill her.

Lots more subtext in regard to Paige as well, with Hans discussing how some kids become carbon copies of their parents with regard to their political views and Rubin wishing that his kids could grow up to follow his beliefs.

There was great tension around the whole seen with the bug and Martha in the ladies toilets and again during the end seen. Noah Emmerich did a great job with his direction.

The only thing that I didn't get was why Elizabeth shot the bread lady at the end, was she working with the South African Intelligence (NIS) or the CIA?

FloatingVoter

A turning point episode. He's lost a child to Afghanistan. He will kill the wife if she continues the recruitment of Paige.
Things have got from cold to hot in five seconds flat with that lift. The bug in the office. Our spycatcher resembles James Jesus Angleston (the man who let Philby slip but became notorious as the spycatcher God / Demon...look him up). I'd imagine he already knows that intimate bugs are planted by close contacts. Her invitation to the meeting in the broom closet was no coincidence.
This is the best show on TV.

kn

The thing about the Americans is that it has the 'ring of truth' about it with the actually spies discovered in the recent past and I think they even used the name Murphy?

Yeah its slow but for political thriller enthusiasts its engrossing!!

kn

PS are we all downloading the latest series from the bootleg sites?

FloatingVoter

kn wrote: »

PS are we all downloading the latest series from the bootleg sites?

Nope, mine is shipped in by FSB agents. Long live Vlad the Put-upon.

sxt

Wow. What a fantastic last three minutes! Cool wigs and automobiles. Amazing use of music and camera . . Tension slowly building to a crescendo finanly. Badass with an iron fist! :eek:

vepyewwo

Great episode. The actress who plays Martha was excellent, especially the moment in the bathroom when she finally realised what she has done and that she has no idea who her husband really is. How long before Philip just decides she has become a liability? The final scene was great too.

I think Elizabeth is eventually going to come around to Philip's way of thinking re. Paige. It just doesn't make sense that she thinks Paige eventually working for the KGB is a realistic possibility. Even if you take the fact that she's their daughter out of the equation, surely she will see that Paige is the worst possible candidate for a spy. Can she really imagine Paige learning spycraft and being fine having sex with and murdering strangers for a living?

Black Menorca

I love love love love this show. What an episode!

From start to finish, unmissable.

Remind me please, did Clarke give the pen to Martha to put in Gad's office?

If so, why didn't she tell Clarke about it being rumbled? Surely she knew it was bugged?

DMcL1971

Black Menorca wrote: »

I love love love love this show. What an episode!

From start to finish, unmissable.

Remind me please, did Clarke give the pen to Martha to put in Gad's office?

If so, why didn't she tell Clarke about it being rumbled? Surely she knew it was bugged?

Yes, Clark gave her the pen to plant. She believes that he works in the Internal Affairs Division of the Committee to oversee United States' counterintelligence agencies. The pen broadcasts to the recording device that she carries in her purse. When the bug was discovered she knew that it wouldn't be long before they swept for the recording device. She was worried that either she would be in trouble or that her discovery would lead to Clark being in trouble. That is why she dismantled it and soaked it, to ensure it gave off no electromagnetic radiation that could be detected.

However at some point after the bug discovery, it has occurred to her that maybe Clark is not what he seems to be. She is suspicious of him but has not chosen to tell him yet, that is why she lied and said that she had left her bag in work. That way it buys her more time before she has to hand over the tape to Clark and admit the bug was found.

Black Menorca

DMcL1971 wrote: »

Yes, Clark gave her the pen to plant. She believes that he works in the Internal Affairs Division of the Committee to oversee United States' counterintelligence agencies. The pen broadcasts to the recording device that she carries in her purse. When the bug was discovered she knew that it wouldn't be long before they swept for the recording device. She was worried that either she would be in trouble or that her discovery would lead to Clark being in trouble. That is why she dismantled it and soaked it, to ensure it gave off no electromagnetic radiation that could be detected.

However at some point after the bug discovery, it has occurred to her that maybe Clark is not what he seems to be. She is suspicious of him but has not chosen to tell him yet, that is why she lied and said that she had left her bag in work. That way it buys her more time before she has to hand over the tape to Clark and admit the bug was found.

Thank you for putting the pieces of this puzzle together for me.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

The Black Oil

3.07

Great episode. Noah Emmerich directed the heck out of it. Marriage stress continues to burn brightly through the show. Henry - discourse. Cheeky fecker.

The Centre wants weekly updates on Paige, boom! Stan's FBI buddy - the initial mechanical part of the pen reveal was slightly clumsy, but delivered a real holy feck moment. :eek: I punched the air....I can't wait to see what Martha gets up next. You could feel the hairs stand up on the back of her neck even before she went to the bathroom. Alison Wright was great. Second punch the air moment was when she sprung the apartment visit on Clark.

Any pineapple pizza in the USSR, btw? Excellent final scene. Philip's wig at the diner was in keeping with the soundtrack. I thought the 'God bless America' mural on the street as Philip was leaving contrasted very much with Elizabeth's earlier statement, 'I'm not an American', which sums her up.

Also, they had snow in the 80s.

jack presley

DMcL1971 wrote: »

The only thing that I didn't get was why Elizabeth shot the bread lady at the end, was she working with the South African Intelligence (NIS) or the CIA?

Wouldn't mind an answer to that too myself.

Heraldoffreeent

jack presley wrote: »

Wouldn't mind an answer to that too myself.

When she asked her the question, the woman answered in a Saffer accent, it was obvious she was the backup.

VR46

Does anyone know if RTE will be showing season 3? Mr Google offers no answers and ITV aren't showing it.

drugstore cowboy

VR46 wrote: »

Does anyone know if RTE will be showing season 3? Mr Google offers no answers and ITV aren't showing it.

It's usually the summer months but I could be wrong?

kn

They showed it Autumn last year IIRC.

DMcL1971

More edge of the seat stuff this week.

Both of the violent scenes were very hard to watch.

Ventnor's death

was probably the most disturbing violence that I can remember ever seeing on TV. But Gaad's unprovoked attack on poor mail robot was also very upsetting.

It is great to see Nina Sergeevna back to work at what she does best. It worked on Stan, it worked on Vasili, it worked on Arkady. Despite his initial resistance there is no way that Baklanov will be able to resist Nina's powers (and why would he even want to?).

Martha was cool under Taffet's questioning. I still don't know what is going on inside her head though. All I keep on thinking is that, there is no fury like a woman scorned. She knows she has made a big mistake but does she really believe in Clark's love and if so, is she willing to give up everything for him. Lying there with her eyes open at the end I couldn't tell what she might do next.

FloatingVoter

The Jo'berg necklace was very graphic but it was a common punishment for informers and spies. In reality I think the kid would have gotten a bullet. Releasing him might come back to bite them. He's scared witless but has spent enough time in their company to provide an excellent e-fit.
I think Clark's 2nd wife is heading for the chop. No way she'll be left to have second thoughts.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Black Menorca

The death was horrific, but thats how vicious that organisation was back then. There were no 'good guys' in that struggle, despite how we like to think of Mandela as a cuddly grandfather type. It reminded me of a very recent death in Syria.

Martha was sleepless in the bed as was 'Clark'. He's thinking exit strategy without a doubt.

I'm wondering after Paige said 'you can't rob banks or anything like that' might inform Elizabeth that she's not as ready as she thought Paige was and might stall signing her up to the cause.

My God, Nina is so beautiful.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

JohnK

Good episode. I was convinced they were just trying to scare that guy into giving something up and the whole tyre thing was just a ruse so I was shocked when they actually lit him up :eek:

FloatingVoter

JohnK wrote: »

Good episode. I was convinced they were just trying to scare that guy into giving something up and the whole tyre thing was just a ruse so I was shocked when they actually lit him up :eek:

All too common a feature on our news bulletins in the 1980s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing