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Organic Chemistry
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04-12-2012 9:36pm#1
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Which part of organic chemistry is this? Are you including the fuels and heats of reaction chapter (alkanes, alkenes, alkynes, oil, thermochemistry etc.) under this section or are you just talking about the whole organic families and reactions section? If it's the latter, then don't worry!
Only 1 full question comes up on this, sometimes 1 experiment and usually one of those half-questions... so you can skip it! 
I never bothered to study it because it was the last section we did in 6th year and by that stage I had more than enough to cover me for the exam! You only have to answer 8 of 11 questions so even if an experiment from this section does come up you'll still have a choice of 8 out of 9! 0 -
Um, I understand how to identify each family but thats about it, my teacher keeps going on about how this can make up up to half of the paper, I'm not even sure what we're doing since my brain has resorted to performing miniature concerts in my head there is not hope 0
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No don't worry it doesn't make up half the paper! As I said you'd be fine without even looking at it! The paper is broken down as follows:
[You have to do 8 out of 11 questions out of which at least 2 must be from the first 3 questions (i.e. the experiments)]
1. Titrations (Volumetric Analysis)
2. Organic experiment (may be one from fuels or from families; so if you don't do organic families/ reactions you may or may not be able to do this one)
3. One of the other experiments (not a titration or organic)
4. Short questions covering whole course (only answer 8 out of 11 of these so again- no organic families/ reactions needed)
5. Atomic Theory
6. Fuels & Heats of Reaction
7, 8 and 9. Each on a different topic on different years e.g water, pH and Acids/Bases, equilibrium, rates of reactions... and one is always organic families/ reactions
10 and 11. Both these questions have 3 parts out of which you must select 2. One part may be organic but that's easily avoided! 11(c) is always the option- if you're doing environmental chemistry these are very handy marks!
So as you can see the organic families/ reactions section is completely avoidable! 0 -
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partyatmygaff wrote: »Leaving out organic chemistry would be incredibly foolish. It's such an important part of chemistry and the stuff you do at LC level is trivially easy once you get your head around it.
Don't avoid it, just try and work your way through it and worst case scenario you get stuck, you can always just post on boards and you'll get an answer.
No it wouldn't be foolish at all Look at the exam paper layout! :P If you plan do study chemistry after LC maybe it'd be a good idea to come to grasps with it but if you're not then there's no point in learning that massively long section when it's so easily avoided! 0 -
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Ah yeah like you can get away without doing it but you won't be leaving yourself much choice at all. I'd say if you were going to do anything learn the experiments as there's always an organic chem experiment (you'd have to make sure you're able to do percentage yield/limiting reagent calculations), and if you really can't make sense of the reactions you can just leave the question on that. I really do think they'll make sense after a while though, I think they seem like gibberish to most people at first! If you ever need anyone to explain them simply I'd be happy to help too. 0
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I beg to differ, it would be foolish to leave it out. There is nothing complicated about it. It can all be learned off quite easily once you get your head around it. It accounts for quite a large portion of the course and paper itself. What is the point in studying the subject if you are just going to leave out the most important bit in it?No it wouldn't be foolish at all Look at the exam paper layout! :P If you plan do study chemistry after LC maybe it'd be a good idea to come to grasps with it but if you're not then there's no point in learning that massively long section when it's so easily avoided! 0 -
I think I just really need to get a grind and to get someone to explain it to me in english I understand
While I don't think I can afford to leave it out, I don't agree that there's nothing complicated about it, but then again, science isn't my strongpoint... and I shouldn't have let the school convince me to do 2 sciences0 -
I beg to differ, it would be foolish to leave it out. There is nothing complicated about it. It can all be learned off quite easily once you get your head around it. It accounts for quite a large portion of the course and paper itself. What is the point in studying the subject if you are just going to leave out the most important bit in it?
Most important bit?... No :P That depends on what you're going on to study after. For example for potential geography/ geology students the most important part is the periodic table and chemical bonding 0 -
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I'm talking about the leaving cert. It is the most important bit. Otherwise it wouldn't make up the majority of the syllabus.Most important bit?... No :P That depends on what you're going on to study after. For example for potential geography/ geology students the most important part is the periodic table and chemical bonding0 -
I'm talking about the leaving cert. It is the most important bit. Otherwise it wouldn't make up the majority of the syllabus.
Oh well when I was talking about the organic section above we were discussing the organic families and reactions chapter not the fuels and heats of reaction chapter (even though that's obviously also organic, it's just a different section). So the organic section we were talking about only takes up one definite question, one possible experiment and one possible half-question. That's not the majority of the syllabus
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Oh well when I was talking about the organic section above we were discussing the organic families and reactions chapter not the fuels and heats of reaction chapter (even though that's obviously also organic, it's just a different section). So the organic section we were talking about only takes up one definite question, one possible experiment and one possible half-question. That's not the majority of the syllabus
With the organic experiment in Section A, the fuels/heats of reaction in Section B, the other organic question in section B and maybe one or two short questions, you can knock almost 40% out of the paper if you know this stuff properly. I would consider it extremely important.
Considering that it's only 3 chapters of the book (if you have Chemistry Live) 40% is a good return on the exam paper for your input on this section.
Also it's guaranteed: there's always an organic experiment, there is always a fuels question and there's always one other organic question.0 -
rainbowtrout wrote: »
With the organic experiment in Section A, the fuels/heats of reaction in Section B, the other organic question in section B and maybe one or two short questions, you can knock almost 40% out of the paper if you know this stuff properly. I would consider it extremely important.
Considering that it's only 3 chapters of the book (if you have Chemistry Live) 40% is a good return on the exam paper for your input on this section.
Also it's guaranteed: there's always an organic experiment, there is always a fuels question and there's always one other organic question.
Did you read my post at all? we weren't including the fuels and heats of reactions! I did LC Chemistry, got an A and I never once looked at the organic families and reactions section! Yes I never argued that you shouldn't study it but you can easily get away with not studying it! After all as I said its only 1 guaranteed question, 1 possible experiment and one possible half-question. 0 -
Did you read my post at all? we weren't including the fuels and heats of reactions! I did LC Chemistry, got an A and I never once looked at the organic families and reactions section! Yes I never argued that you shouldn't study it but you can easily get away with not studying it! After all as I said its only 1 guaranteed question, 1 possible experiment and one possible half-question.
Yes I read your post, and I'm a chemistry teacher. Of course it's possible to get an A in the LC, but not everyone is you. The fuels chapter includes alkanes, alkenes and alkynes and includes the experiments on the production of alkenes and alkynes so it would be foolish to dismiss it saying it's not strictly organic chemistry - you weren't including it, that doesn't mean everyone else excludes it as well.
Anyone learning the mechanisms of chlorination, bromination etc will have to have an understanding how those families of organic compounds work so you can't dismiss them.
If you want the flip side to your argument, my brother did the LC many years back, didn't do a tap but learned the 3 chapters on organic chemistry inside out and not much else and came out with a D3. From what I gather I don't think he attempted much else on the paper either, a couple of short answer questions to make sure he passed but that was about it.
Someone who is struggling with chemistry like the OP, cannot easily get away with not studying a section which takes up a considerable portion of the exam as it leaves them with little or no choices on the exam. Not good for someone finding difficulties with chemistry. It was OK for you, you got an A, so clearly you didn't have the same difficulties with the course.0 -
Don't even consider leaving out Organic chemistry. It is probably the most important section on the course. It incorporates almost everything.
Of course you "can" leave it out but it'd be foolish. Imagine you are sitting there and a complete freak question comes up in just say, q5. You'd like to think you'd have a backup which you could fall on. Also. If you were doing the mole and equilibrium reactions , most of the equations and questions come from organic chemistry, you'd feel a lot more at ease recognising the chemicals rather than seeing a whole bunch if C's and H's everywhere.
Also, if you are thinking of a career in biology, chemistry, medicine, dietetics or even cookery, the knowledge of organic chemistry, their properties and functional groups are vital for study.
Once you get your head around organic chemistry, it is by far the most manageable and enjoyable part of the chemistry course I cannot wait to restart organic chemistry next semester. It underpins everything really.
Organic chemistry is good, m'kay! :pac:0 -
rainbowtrout wrote: »Yes I read your post, and I'm a chemistry teacher. Of course it's possible to get an A in the LC, but not everyone is you. The fuels chapter includes alkanes, alkenes and alkynes and includes the experiments on the production of alkenes and alkynes so it would be foolish to dismiss it saying it's not strictly organic chemistry - you weren't including it, that doesn't mean everyone else excludes it as well.
Anyone learning the mechanisms of chlorination, bromination etc will have to have an understanding how those families of organic compounds work so you can't dismiss them.
If you want the flip side to your argument, my brother did the LC many years back, didn't do a tap but learned the 3 chapters on organic chemistry inside out and not much else and came out with a D3. From what I gather I don't think he attempted much else on the paper either, a couple of short answer questions to make sure he passed but that was about it.
Someone who is struggling with chemistry like the OP, cannot easily get away with not studying a section which takes up a considerable portion of the exam as it leaves them with little or no choices on the exam. Not good for someone finding difficulties with chemistry. It was OK for you, you got an A, so clearly you didn't have the same difficulties with the course.
Oh no I wasn't saying that chapter wasn't organic, I asked the OP what (s)he was including when (s)he said organic chemistry to make sure I knew what (s)he was talking about (since the book doesn't call that particular chapter organic- so a lot of people I knew never included it when they were talking about organic chemistry) So when the OP told me (s)he was talking about the organic families chapter I assumed (s)he wasn't talking about the "Fuels and Heats of Reactions" :)
So I told him/ her what I would love someone had told me when I was in 6th year- the truth that it can be soo easily avoided! Obviously the OP was struggling with this part of the course, they never mentioned the rest of the course, so I can only assume that it's just this section they're struggling with. I wasn't going to make them stressed out even more by saying you have to study this to do well when you most certainly don't!
It's so great that your brother passed based on this section (I'm assuming you're also including the fuels and heats of reactions?) but that's not very relevant to what the OP is asking! If I personally had spent my time studying organic instead of revising the more important chapters I would have gotten I'd say a C2/C3 max:) 0 -
No don't worry it doesn't make up half the paper! As I said you'd be fine without even looking at it! The paper is broken down as follows:
[You have to do 8 out of 11 questions out of which at least 2 must be from the first 3 questions (i.e. the experiments)]
1. Titrations (Volumetric Analysis)
2. Organic experiment (may be one from fuels or from families; so if you don't do organic families/ reactions you may or may not be able to do this one)
3. One of the other experiments (not a titration or organic)
4. Short questions covering whole course (only answer 8 out of 11 of these so again- no organic families/ reactions needed)
5. Atomic Theory
6. Fuels & Heats of Reaction
7, 8 and 9. Each on a different topic on different years e.g water, pH and Acids/Bases, equilibrium, rates of reactions... and one is always organic families/ reactions
10 and 11. Both these questions have 3 parts out of which you must select 2. One part may be organic but that's easily avoided! 11(c) is always the option- if you're doing environmental chemistry these are very handy marks!
So as you can see the organic families/ reactions section is completely avoidable!
Hi thanks for this, i wasnt sure exactly of the layout. My teacher said she wouldnt be doing the option with us but im thinking of doing it myself cos it looks easy! How long would it take approx to study the environ chemistry? thanks Oh and our teacher is only doing 1 organic chapter with us cos she said the other one is optional? Im kind of worried but u say u dont have to do organic? The organic chapter were doing is the one with the propane and fuels and stuff?0 -
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Hi thanks for this, i wasnt sure exactly of the layout. My teacher said she wouldnt be doing the option with us but im thinking of doing it myself cos it looks easy! How long would it take approx to study the environ chemistry? thanks Oh and our teacher is only doing 1 organic chapter with us cos she said the other one is optional? Im kind of worried but u say u dont have to do organic? The organic chapter were doing is the one with the propane and fuels and stuff?
No problem! Yes the option is probably the easiest part of the course and I'd definitely recommend doing it! There are 2 options: Industrial & Atmospheric OR Materials, Metals, Additional Electrochemistry. Most people (including myself) do the 1st as it is much easier and more interesting (IMO).
+1 on what ChemHickey said, Industrial is highly tipped this year (it was actually highly tipped last year too but atmospheric came up instead). I'd say don't chance leaving out atmospheric though if you're also leaving out the organic families! Atmospheric is soo easy though as it links a lot with geography (if you do geography, that is!)... you'll have it learned it no time!
Well if you're talking about the organic families & reactions chapter, it's not technically optional but you can certainly get away without studying it! Our teacher did cover it with us but many of us in the class never bothered looking at it and we were all perfectly fine (I've said in a previous post how avoidable it is! ) Yes, the "Fuels and Heats of Reaction" chapter is Q6 and it's dead handy once you get your head around the thermochemistry equations! It's also a possible experiment question on Q2! 0 -
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I'd highly recommend learning the fuels question. Know how to do the equations and that's a really handy 15 marks. Then the rest of the question is usually really easy. I nearly always got full marks in fuels in exams or when practising exam papers 0
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I'd highly recommend learning the fuels question. Know how to do the equations and that's a really handy 15 marks. Then the rest of the question is usually really easy. I nearly always got full marks in fuels in exams or when practising exam papers
+1 on this. It's one of the easiest on the paper when you get how to do the equations!0 -
Thanks everyone, my teacher actually told us on friday that we could do the option if we wanted after the mocks! And i think the fuels chapter is very hard but i'll definitly study it because I dont want to be caught out in the exam as we aren't doing the other organic chapters. Thanks again 0
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