Budget 2013 - The official thread

pajodublin

GE90 wrote: »

In fairness if you can afford a 08+ car you should be able to afford the tax. Id say your car is worth 6000. My car is nearly 14 years old and is worth about 500 my tax was 358 its now 385, basically twice what yours is simply because its older.

Your complaining that your tax is two much yet you can afford a 08 car and are paying half as much as me who can barely afford to keep a car on the road yet alone afford a 08 one.

Also, it's not more simply because it's older. The emissions will be much higher in your 99 than his 08
that's why it's higher

JP 1800

I thought it was but on further examination the carbon tax increase is for solid fuels.

dar83

€90 more again this year. I'll add that to the extra €80 that was added last year.

It's one thing saying you were aware of the high tax when you bought a car, but for it to have gone up by €170 in (effectively) a 12 month period, that's not exactly something you would have factored much into it. Funnily enough for a heavy petrol burning car, I'd still be better off if it was an 08 or higher (to the tune of €94 a year).

The percentage increases are shocking if you look at them from a merely statistical point of view, as the 25% increase on the lower bands seems huge, but in reality these cars were paying less than a third per year of what a pre 08 1.4 was paying, 2 years ago! Those brackets can only increase with large percentage amounts as the government in their infinite wisdom created a large €70-80 million void in the tax take per annum with the new system and for some reason lowering the tax threshold on low emmission cars.

The interesting thing is that from a statistic I saw yesterday, only 1/4 or so of the vehicles on the road at present are post 08 and on the CO2 rates, so I think we can safely say that the CC based tax rates will be seeing increases still for the next few years at least as they try to recoup money from their retarded manouvre from 08 without upsetting the 520d brigade too much as they were "incentivised" to go and buy one due to the tax breaks.

Ah wells, at least I paid mine for the year in November, so I have another 11 months to sort out next years. On a minor note, there goes another insta-chunk of depreciation off the car!

listermint

pajodublin wrote: »

Also, it's not more simply because it's older. The emissions will be much higher in your 99 than his 08
that's why it's higher

not necessarily true to be fair. Plates dont effect emissions btw.

Cyrus

pajodublin wrote: »

Also, it's not more simply because it's older. The emissions will be much higher in your 99 than his 08
that's why it's higher

what if he does 1/5 of the mileage that you do?

Slattsy

My car tax is up end of December at €481

I should be getting the notification in the post any day now.

When does the increase actually kick in ?

cojomo2

Twinkly wrote: »

Hi all,



I thought it was rumoured that VAT on construction was to be reduced from 13.5% to 9%. Am I correct in thinking that this reduction did not materialise in the Budget?



Thanks,

construction of....?cars!?

A-Trak

January the 1st.
I'm in the same boat, renewal due in January.

McGrath5

All the different opinions been shown here only highlight how unfair motor tax is implemented.

Chimaera

JP 1800 wrote: »

Mine too, how many people like us are doing the same and how much money are the government letting go through their financial stupidity? My classic will see a lot more service

Probably not as much as you think. Big engined cars have always been a tiny percentage of the fleet here, particularly old ones.

pajodublin

Cyrus wrote: »

what if he does 1/5 of the mileage that you do?

That is a great point IMO.
I've always said the cost of motor tax should be put onto petrol and motor tax abolished as there will be no drivers without tax and it will reflect the amount of driving done

pajodublin

pajodublin wrote: »

They should base it all on CO2 then and judge it by the NCT results.

I don't think you would be too happy paying maybe €1000..2000 for a full NCT including Euro test cycle on the rolling road where they bag all the exhaust gases for analysis?

dodzy

Eliminate the ROAD tax and put it on the fuel. Why somebody who drives 100K per year and pays the same € ROAD tax as another punter who hits maybe 10% of this mileage

This is the real crime.

Slattsy

So if someone recently paid their car tax for a full year,say from November 2012 - October 2013, will they avoid the increase until the following year ?

pajodublin

samih wrote: »

I don't think you would be too happy paying maybe €1000..2000 for a full NCT including Euro test cycle on the rolling road where they bag all the exhaust gases for analysis?

you're right i wouldn't. Another poster pointed out it's CO and not CO2 tested for in the NCT! My mistake

Seweryn

pajodublin wrote: »

Also, it's not more simply because it's older. The emissions will be much higher in your 99 than his 08
that's why it's higher

Are you comparing the number plates only or there is something I am missing here?

Twinkly

Sorry I meant housing, I only just realised all of the posts seem to be about cars. I just thought based on the title that this thread was about budget facts in general, my mistake, apologies.

166man

samih wrote: »

I don't think you would be too happy paying maybe €1000..2000 for a full NCT including Euro test cycle on the rolling road where they bag all the exhaust gases for analysis?

Matt Simis and MCM would wreak havoc on those poor machines... Would love to see the readouts from their Motors...

Honey-ec

Slattsy wrote: »

So if someone recently paid their car tax for a full year,say from November 2012 - October 2013, will they avoid the increase until the following year ?

Obviously.

GE90

pajodublin wrote: »

What a pile of ****e. Terrible attitude to have
If you can afford an 08 you can afford more tax?
Get a grip. I have an 08 after my 02 died this year.
I wanted to get a car that wouldn't die within a year so i got a loan of 5k to get my car which I'm still paying for.
I'm far from being "well off" and that 45 euro is a lot to me as the 27euro on yours is to you

First off all don't assume that the 27 euro is wort less to me then the 45 is to you, you don't know my financial situation and i don't know yours so i wont comment.

My issue is people with more valuable cars pay less tax and that is not fair.

The solution is simple tax the fuel people who drive more pay more, people with less economic cars pay more its a fairer system all over and will be cheaper to implement and harder to abuse.

As a side note buying a modern car for reliably is a bad move.

Spipov

they increased the old cc rates last year. they increased this year again. wtf. the co2 rates increased MARGINALLY.

a bloody 1.8L on the old rate is gonna cost me 47 euros more
while my 2.2l 520i is not gonna cost 66 more?


While at the same time an 08 car is only gonna cost at the most 40 euros more?

not everyone can afford a post 08 car. this is like a knife to the heart.

am i supposed to be driving 200km per week in a yaris? on the motorway?

With my bleeding eardrums then im gonna end up spending more money at the gp, doctors or im gonna get crushed in an accident and have no safety.

Either way, its like i have no pockets. nothing comes into it, it all goes out.

I may make it sound dramatic, but they screwed up the emissions based motor tax. correct it properly. why punish people who cant afford newer cars because they actually NEED 2? instead of consolidating in 1 newer one.

ah yes, public transport - enuff said. to get to work, id need to go to city centre, then take another bus to go to work, and be there before 8. i dont think buses run at the times i would need to get out of the house.

ffocused

Here is the PDF with all increases

http://www.rte.ie/documents/news/motor-tax-vrt.pdf

Not as bad as I feared. I have 2 cc based cars 2.0 & 2.4 €50 & €72 increase respectively.

pajodublin

Just to point this out
The increase for my 2008 since 2011 has been €114
The equivalent in an older car has been an increase of €44

mathepac

dodzy wrote: »

Eliminate the ROAD tax and put it on the fuel. Why somebody who drives 100K per year and pays the same € ROAD tax as another punter who hits maybe 10% of this mileage ...

but we don't pay ROAD tax, we pay MOTOR tax - it's based on the MOTOR you drive, not the ROAD you drive it on

MercMad

Scortho wrote: »

As ireland doesnt have a car manufacturing industry, should we not be incetivising people to keep there old car and spend there money in the domestic economy. Less would leave the economy then would it not?

......exactly what I have been saying for years.

What I cant understand is the incentives (scrappage, 1/2 year reg changes, emmisions based tax) that the Government gives to the Motor industry. Dont they see that sales were inflated beyond the natural state over the last 10 years. Sales of new cars havent dropped, they've returned to the natural level. the motor industry grew in the boom, you cannot expect it to remain at those levels and try numerous ways to lift ONE sector of industry.

Of course we know why they do it, because it improves the balance sheet for the exchequer, but they dont seem to realise how much money leaves the Country to foreign automobile makers every year, makers who simply make way to many cars per annum anyway. I have a lot of friends in the motor trade in this Country but facts are facts, we do not need all these new cars. repairing older cars saves jobs too !!

They should introduce a reduced tax for 20 year old cars too, bring a lot of cars back onto the roads. The NCT system, the sale of parts, tyres and labour, motor tax, fuel would all benefit. These cars benefit nobody sitting in a driveway/garage/field !

listermint

pajodublin wrote: »

Just to point this out
The increase for my 2008 since 2011 has been €114
The equivalent in an older car has been an increase of €44

Just to point out you are not paying the equivalent motor tax to someone in the same car 1 year younger. In fact no where near it.

sogood

I don't know any of the detail yet on any proposed increase in motor tax, but I think it's safe to say that an increase is a given. I drive a 4.0l car, 1996, so I get hammered anyway. But it's my choice, I knew the tax before I ever bought it. My last car was a 1990 BMW 735, same story. So, an increase of €100 or €200 per annum wouldn't seem a lot on an annual tax bill of €1,600 plus.

But my issue is with mileage/ driving, as opposed to simple ownership. Because of the nature of my work, my car can be parked for 2-3 weeks at a time, sometimes even longer. So my annual mileage will be a lot less than the driver in a 1.3 who commutes in and out to work, 5 days a week plus his normal weekend driving. So, instead of griping over an increase on an already unfair, inequitable system, we should look for a change in the system. Which leads me to my old favourite chestnut ie; Pay at the pump!

Everyone pays road tax, based on usage, rather than ownership. No one can drive "tax free". Bigger engine = more petrol = more tax. Better to pay x cents extra per litre on an ongoing basis than having to fork out a lump sum every 3 months. Do the maths, how much do you pay for 12 months road tax, as opposed to how much actual time in those 12 months are you actually driving?

Or we can just continue to gripe, and bend over..................

pajodublin

GE90 wrote: »

First off all don't assume that the 27 euro is wort less to me then the 45 is to you, you don't know my financial situation and i don't know yours so i wont comment.

My issue is people with more valuable cars pay less tax and that is not fair.

The solution is simple tax the fuel people who drive more pay more, people with less economic cars pay more its a fairer system all over and will be cheaper to implement and harder to abuse.

As a side note buying a modern car for reliably is a bad move.

Apologies, I did not mean to make that assumption at all. That wasn't my intent.
If you look at a previous post of mine you will see i wrote exactly what you wrote above about putting it on the fuel.

On your final note. I bought the newer car as my old car was on it's 3rd Engine and that was just dead. I bought a car with good advice from several people and i haven't had any trouble as of yet (touch wood)

Cienciano

Jasus, the luxobarges really are getting expensive. I can see any big old cars being exported to England. Close on €2k a year.

Atomic Pineapple

dar83 wrote: »

€90 more again this year. I'll add that to the extra €80 that was added last year.

Was not expecting that much, **** that for a bag of ****e.

andrew1977

Slattsy wrote: »

So if someone recently paid their car tax for a full year,say from November 2012 - October 2013, will they avoid the increase until the following year ?

Correct, when the tax comes up for renewal again, you will be charged the new higher rate.

pajodublin

listermint wrote: »

Just to point out you are not paying the equivalent motor tax to someone in the same car 1 year younger. In fact no where near it.

60quid in the difference per year

Caliden

sogood wrote: »

I don't know any of the detail yet on any proposed increase in motor tax, but I think it's safe to say that an increase is a given. I drive a 4.0l car, 1996, so I get hammered anyway. But it's my choice, I knew the tax before I ever bought it. My last car was a 1990 BMW 735, same story. So, an increase of €100 or €200 per annum wouldn't seem a lot on an annual tax bill of €1,600 plus.

But my issue is with mileage/ driving, as opposed to simple ownership. Because of the nature of my work, my car can be parked for 2-3 weeks at a time, sometimes even longer. So my annual mileage will be a lot less than the driver in a 1.3 who commutes in and out to work, 5 days a week plus his normal weekend driving. So, instead of griping over an increase on an already unfair, inequitable system, we should look for a change in the system. Which leads me to my old favourite chestnut ie; Pay at the pump!

Everyone pays road tax, based on usage, rather than ownership. No one can drive "tax free". Bigger engine = more petrol = more tax. Better to pay x cents extra per litre on an ongoing basis than having to fork out a lump sum every 3 months. Do the maths, how much do you pay for 12 months road tax, as opposed to how much actual time in those 12 months are you actually driving?

Or we can just continue to gripe, and bend over..................

It's a fair point and I was actually interested in working out how much I spend on fuel (roughly) in a year.
Needless to say, it's 4 times more than I spend on motor tax.

I went on to work out roughly how much of an increase per litre it would be if my road tax was applied at the pumps and it came out at ~30c increase (this is for a 2 litre car)

So depending on how much of a charge you're talking about per litre, as long as it's <30c / litre then I'm all for it! (As long as I pay 0 motor tax that is )

GE90

pajodublin wrote: »

Apologies, I did not mean to make that assumption at all. That wasn't my intent.
If you look at a previous post of mine you will see i wrote exactly what you wrote above about putting it on the fuel.

On your final note. I bought the newer car as my old car was on it's 3rd Engine and that was just dead. I bought a car with good advice from several people and i haven't had any trouble as of yet (touch wood)

Were all friends here, both of us have been treated unfairly with regards to motor tax which proves that a better system is needed and we both agree that taxing the fuel is the way forward. Obviously some people will pay more that they are at the moment and will complain, but that are paying more because they drive more and not because they cant afford a modern car which in my opinion is completely fair.

With regards your car old car being un-reliable and on its 3rd engine, it was a lemon its not because the car was old. As i said my car is nearly 14 years old. 160,000 miles and has been extremely reliable alot more that my fathers 08 car with half the millage.
Modern cars are fare more complicated with dmf, dpf, ect.

CrowdedHouse

My new car (3 litre) will cost €270 to tax, I will have to pay around €1500 extra VRT though

MuppetCheck

Low CO2 got off lightly again. Bit too lightly if you ask me, and I avail of this system.

Some of the old CC based bands are beyond a yoke.

Dingle_berry

I was in band A €160. But how the f do I find out what band I'm in now? Different sources quote different emissions for my car. Is there any official register/list? (2010 megane coupe 1.5 DCI)

CrowdedHouse

It will be on your VLC

awec

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Dingle_berry wrote: »

I was in band A €160. But how the f do I find out what band I'm in now? Different sources quote different emissions for my car. Is there any official register/list? (2010 megane coupe 1.5 DCI)

Is CO2 emission not written on your registration certificate?

Eric Cartman

1935 + 356 = 2291 in car tax for 2013

pajodublin

GE90 wrote: »

Were all friends here, both of us have been treated unfairly with regards to motor tax which proves that a better system is needed and we both agree that taxing the fuel is the way forward. Obviously some people will pay more that they are at the moment and will complain, but that are paying more because they drive more and not because they cant afford a modern car which in my opinion is completely fair.

With regards your car old car being un-reliable and on its 3rd engine, it was a lemon its not because the car was old. As i said my car is nearly 14 years old. 160,000 miles and has been extremely reliable alot more that my fathers 08 car with half the millage.
Modern cars are fare more complicated with dmf, dpf, ect.

Good point.
I do an awful lot of driving and i am all for it going on the fuel
The only problem is for them is finding a way around it for Taxi's, Goods vehicles and other cheaper tax vehicles

Dingle_berry

CiniO wrote: »

Is CO2 emission not written on your registration certificate?

It could be but I keep it at home so it's not to hand ATM

pajodublin

Dingle_berry wrote: »

It could be but I keep it at home so it's not to hand ATM

put your reg in here https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/menu.do?page=motortaxinforeg

and that is the current rate before increase and it should say your band on it

giant_midget

Lots of cheap 04 + 05 BMW 530d's on donedeal now over next 6-7 weeks i reckon....

GE90

Dingle_berry wrote: »

I was in band A €160. But how the f do I find out what band I'm in now? Different sources quote different emissions for my car. Is there any official register/list? (2010 megane coupe 1.5 DCI)

Type your reg in hear to get your current co2 band: https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/menu.do?page=motortaxinforeg

And then check it against the table in this document: http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Documents/Annex%20C%20-%20VRT%20and%20Motor%20Tax.pdf

pajodublin

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1935 + 356 = 2291 in car tax for 2013

None of them went up that much?

awec

This post has been deleted.

Sleepy

listermint wrote: »

What consolation is that ? you are using as much services or road as i am so why werent the bases consolidated.

The whole emissions crap was just a sweetener for the motor industry in 2008 it has to stop.

I'm on the engine size tax too, and will continue to be when I buy a "new" car this weekend.

My point was that they're clearly unprepared to just fix the injustice of these rates in one fell swoop, they're doing it piecemeal. By increasing the CO2 band based tax at a higher rate than the normal every year for the next few years they'll eventually balance them out (or by the time we're nearly all on the CO2 band tax system, they'll be as high as the older system was).

It was a farce of a move, I fully agree. There should only be one basis for motor tax whether that be engine size, OMSP of vehicle, a flat rate or CO2 bands imo.

Bearcat

Death Knell for pre 08 3001cc cars......