as it happens... Live Commentary Thread

sok2005

Regarding the property tax, do we also have to pay to get our homes valued? Or how do we value our own homes, it is just price comparisons to other similar places for sale in our area?

antoobrien

sok2005 wrote: »

Regarding the property tax, do we also have to pay to get our homes valued? Or how do we value our own homes, it is just price comparisons to other similar places for sale in our area?

Listening to RTE radio the answer to that seems to be you can if you want, otherwise it'll be based on the market price of sales in the area.

There will be guidelines published on how the figure can be calculated, so if you can fill out a from 11 on your own you'll be grand.

Westwood

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What's the point of putting rollies up so much more than a packet of cigs? O_o

cause everyone is smoking them now as the cant afford cigarettes

spank_inferno

From a business perspective it was a good budget (all things considered)

- The increase in R&D tax excemptions
- Amnesty on corpo tax for new start-ups.
- No increase in pay-roll taxes.
- The haulier rebate from July

Could have been worse.

dreenman

antoobrien wrote: »

Listening to RTE radio the answer to that seems to be you can if you want, otherwise it'll be based on the market price of sales in the area.

There will be guidelines published on how the figure can be calculated, so if you can fill out a from 11 on your own you'll be grand.

Reckon there'll be a lot of houses suddenly getting a valuation of 149,000 and 99,000

If the revenue wants to argue I'm sure most people will turn around and say well you try to sell the f****** place.

Nody

dreenman wrote: »

Reckon there'll be a lot of houses suddenly getting a valuation of 149,000 and 99,000

If the revenue wants to argue I'm sure most people will turn around and say well you try to sell the f****** place.

Makes no difference as the tax is based in 50k blocks; anything between the two points (so 100k to 150k, 150k to 200k etc.) is evaluated as being in the middle of the bracket (so 125k and 175k respectively) for tax purposes.

patwicklow

dreenman wrote: »

Reckon there'll be a lot of houses suddenly getting a valuation of 149,000 and 99,000

If the revenue wants to argue I'm sure most people will turn around and say well you try to sell the f****** place.

Think it is time to sell up and get the **** out of this corrupt country

antoobrien

dreenman wrote: »

Reckon there'll be a lot of houses suddenly getting a valuation of 149,000 and 99,000

Not if the neighbours have been selling for more. The price will have to be justified.

Jerry Seinfeld

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Did i hear the respite care grant is cut by 20%?

Respite Care Grant to be reduced by €325, from €1,700 to €1,375 per annum

Disgraceful

dreenman

Nody wrote: »

Makes no difference as the tax is based in 50k blocks; anything between the two points (so 100k to 150k, 150k to 200k etc.) is evaluated as being in the middle of the bracket (so 125k and 175k respectively) for tax purposes.

Durr - thats exactly the point the blocks will make people value under the block below ( may be even 2 blocks below!) Most people are going to say their house is worth 149,000 than say 159,000 as they then fall in the lower band.

Gilally

is TRS gone for everybody or just new mortgage holders we took out mortgage in 2008

spank_inferno

Gilally wrote: »

is TRS gone for everybody or just new mortgage holders we took out mortgage in 2008

Just for new purchasers

(thank God!)

antoobrien

Gilally wrote: »

is TRS gone for everybody or just new mortgage holders we took out mortgage in 2008

Any existing qualifying mortgages that have TRS will continue, there will be no new qualifying mortgages from next year (they haven't extended the scheme).

I think the scheme was limited to the first 7 years of the mortgage, so 2005 & oler mortgages won't have TRS.

frankosw

Quite a big protest of some sort heading towards Leinster House at the moment!

Nody

dreenman wrote: »

Durr - thats exactly the point the blocks will make people value under the block below ( may be even 2 blocks below!) Most people are going to say their house is worth 149,000 than say 159,000 as they then fall in the lower band.

And when the central evaluation is done (and I expect one to be done once a suitable newspaper runs a couple of "horror stories" about the undervaluation done by a prominent person/group/what ever) said people will be slammed with additional taxes. There are many things to cheat on but taxes is one of few areas that work well in the PS when it comes to fraud detection.

seamus

Relatively easy budget all round.

A couple earning €50k between them living in a home worth €199,999 or less, a car each and two kids will be out by around €20 a week, at most, taking everything into account.

For a couple on €50k, €20 a week is an adjustment that can be made without having to live in rags.

The biggest impact on most people is the removal of the PRSI floor, which is harsh but necessary. It'll bring in a shedload of money and creates a more equitable tax base.

noodler

Still no decent summary of the expenditure measures?

spank_inferno

seamus wrote: »

Relatively easy budget all round.

A couple earning €50k between them living in a home worth €199,999 or less, a car each and two kids will be out by around €20 a week, at most, taking everything into account.

For a couple on €50k, €20 a week is an adjustment that can be made without having to live in rags.

The biggest impact on most people is the removal of the PRSI floor, which is harsh but necessary. It'll bring in a shedload of money and creates a more equitable tax base.

True.

For myself personally being on a modest wage the adjustment incl property tax works out at €12 per week.

The PRSI adjustment will be nearly twice the cost of the property tax (in my circumstance).

Of course all we will hear about from the media is the property tax.

Geuze

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I saw on RTE that the Pension Levy is to be abolished in 2014. Is that the same levy that was introduced a few years back in the Public Sector? If so why is it being abolished?

No, what's to be abolished is the 0.6% levy on pension fund assets, not the PRD.

Geuze

loveisdivine wrote: »

So does this mean we will all end up paying a bit more PRSI now? I dont really understand, not very good with this sort of thing.

Yes, 4% PRSI on first 127 pw, meaning 265 pa extra PRSI.

Idbatterim

anyone have any idea of what the property tax of .18% will bring in per annum? Im assuming an absolute pittance, given the furore over it?!

antoobrien

Idbatterim wrote: »

anyone have any idea of what the property tax of .18% will bring in per annum? Im assuming an absolute pittance, given the furore over it?!

Details available here:

Nutshell expected yield is €250m for H2 2013, €500m for 2014.

seamus

Idbatterim wrote: »

anyone have any idea of what the property tax of .18% will bring in per annum? Im assuming an absolute pittance, given the furore over it?!

Looks like they're forecasting a return of €250m on it.
Edit: Sorry, as above €500m because you only have to pay a half year in 2013.

Dermighty

I look forward to finishing my degree in college and leaving Ireland.

frankosw

seamus wrote: »

Looks like they're forecasting a return of €250m on it.
Edit: Sorry, as above €500m because you only have to pay a half year in 2013.

Still far less than they spend on Overeas Aid.

Chips Lovell

One of the big changes in the PRSI regime is that from 2014, all income is going to be subject to it, such as frental income, investment income, dividends and interest on deposits and savings.

ardmacha

I look forward to finishing my degree in college and leaving Ireland.

Will you be repaying the money spent on your education?

noodler

ardmacha wrote: »

Will you be repaying the money spent on your education.

In fairness, I'd give the poster the benefit as he probably meant in terms of getting a job which everyon can understand.

I don't think he is going to find taxation abroad to be all that different to Ireland.

dreenman

antoobrien wrote: »

Not if the neighbours have been selling for more. The price will have to be justified.

Houses selling? You must tell me where you live!

shedweller

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

One of the big changes in the PRSI regime is that from 2014, all income is going to be subject to it, such as frental income, investment income, dividends and interest on deposits and savings.

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

noodler

dreenman wrote: »

Houses selling? You must tell me where you live!

I live in a tiny estate with less than 50 houses.

According to the property price index there have been 3 sales on it in the last two years.

The sale prices of those transactions are (I have to imagine) going to be the basis for any row you have with revenue.

I am sure mitigating circumstances like more land, a higher energy rating, extra bathrooms, converted attic etc could all come into play.

coonecb1

From Contstantin Gurdgiev's blog. Puts it into perspective.

All the misery and hardship inflicted on the poorest and can be avoided if our politicians showed any balls:


Budget 2013 Cuts & Tax hikes = €3.5 billion


VERSUS

IL&P (bust state-owned 'bank') bonds repayments January 2013 = €2.45 billion
Promo Note (IBRC - toxic loans dump) repayment March 2013 = €3.1 billion

Chips Lovell

shedweller wrote: »

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

How its spent, I don't know. But it does mean that those people with "unearned income" are getting that drawn into the PRSI net.

noodler

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

How its spent, I don't know. But it does mean that those people with "unearned income" are getting that drawn into the PRSI net.

Not until 2014 mind.

dreenman

seamus wrote: »

Relatively easy budget all round.

A couple earning €50k between them living in a home worth €199,999 or less, a car each and two kids will be out by around €20 a week, at most, taking everything into account.

For a couple on €50k, €20 a week is an adjustment that can be made without having to live in rags.

The biggest impact on most people is the removal of the PRSI floor, which is harsh but necessary. It'll bring in a shedload of money and creates a more equitable tax base.

Smug reaction - They may not have to live in rags but that €1000 means that is less 1000 spent by families on Irish products & services so economy shrinks threatening jobs maybe yours maybe theirs - maybe someone else.

And if their house is worth 199,000 it means it was worth 400,000 + a few years ago - if they bought at the top of the market the extra 1000 may mean arrears, loss of house and still massive debt.

Doesnt make sense to take money out of the economy.

noodler

dreenman wrote: »

Smug reaction - They may not have to live in rags but that €1000 means that is less 1000 spent by families on Irish products & services so economy shrinks threatening jobs maybe yours maybe theirs - maybe someone else.

And if their house is worth 199,000 it means it was worth 400,000 + a few years ago - if they bought at the top of the market the extra 1000 may mean arrears, loss of house and still massive debt.

Doesnt make sense to take money out of the economy.

Childish reaction on the otherhand.

Does it make sense to keep borrowing every year to fund hings we can't afford? (Even if we could find someone willing to do that on a long-term basis).

Kristopherus

shedweller wrote: »

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

PRSI usually goes to Dept of Social & Family Affairs.

Nody

dreenman wrote: »

Smug reaction - They may not have to live in rags but that €1000 means that is less 1000 spent by families on Irish products & services so economy shrinks threatening jobs maybe yours maybe theirs - maybe someone else.

And if their house is worth 199,000 it means it was worth 400,000 + a few years ago - if they bought at the top of the market the extra 1000 may mean arrears, loss of house and still massive debt.

Doesnt make sense to take money out of the economy.

No what does not make sense is to borrow over 10 Billion a year to have the budget come out as +/- 0 which is what's being done now.

coonecb1

noodler wrote: »

Childish reaction on the otherhand.

Does it make sense to keep borrowing every year to fund hings we can't afford? (Even if we could find someone willing to do that on a long-term basis).

What things can't we afford?

We can afford what we want to afford.

The politicians know where their priorities are, which is cutting services and increasing taxes on the citizens in order to pay back corporate debt on behalf of bankrupt banks.

amacca

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

How its spent, I don't know. But it does mean that those people with "unearned income" are getting that drawn into the PRSI net.

I'm glad you put that unearned in inverted commas

i would be of the opinion that I earned my wages (which were taxed at the time) and I earned the interest received on my savings which is comprised of aportion of my earned wages.......an interest which is also taxed via DIRT....interest which it now appears is going to be taxed again via PRSI

does that sound about right......will this PRSI on savings interest be deducted at source like DIRT do you think?

OMD

coonecb1 wrote:

The politicians know where their priorities are, which is cutting services and increasing taxes on the citizens in order to pay back corporate debt on behalf of bankrupt banks.

After all the years and all the commentary do you really still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt?

djpbarry

coonecb1 wrote: »

The politicians know where their priorities are, which is cutting services and increasing taxes on the citizens in order to pay back corporate debt on behalf of bankrupt banks.

No, some services need to be cut because tax revenue is insufficient to pay for them. Some tax increases are necessary to cover the cost of the remaining services.

djpbarry

OMD wrote: »

After all the years and all the commentary do you really still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt?

I really doubt (s)he's the only one.

dreenman

noodler wrote: »

Childish reaction on the otherhand.

Does it make sense to keep borrowing every year to fund hings we can't afford? (Even if we could find someone willing to do that on a long-term basis).

We're paying back bondholders - we cant afford that.

The underwriting of the bondholders should be written off - When the bank guarantee was done the banks lied about the scale of the problem. The nation was duped into underwriting debts which we have no chance of paying back - in the meantime the real economy will remain in depression for a decade as more money is taken out of it!

murphaph

Riskymove wrote: »

a SIMI view that people will be quicker to buy cars in second six months of the year and spread sales over the year rather than just early in each year

We'd be far better off introducing the German (and other places) system of having NO REFERENCE to the year of registration on number plates. SIMI are irrelevant to the Irish economy.

We don't make cars in Ireland. We only benefit from the taxation on them. We should not encourage people to (borrow and) export tens of thousands to car manufacturing nations. We should encourage people to hold onto their cars longer and spend or invest their money in the domestic economy.

Cookie_Monster

once again a pathetic budget that does nothing but kick the can even further down the road. No hard decisions made, no real cuts in expenditure, same old same old :rolleyes:

coonecb1

OMD wrote: »

After all the years and all the commentary do you really still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt?

Government pays back billions upon billions in bank debt.

Government goes broke in the process.

Government can't borrow any more, gets bailout.

Government adheres to terms of bailout.

Government cuts services and increase taxes.

To answer your question, yes, I do still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt.

kennyb3

seamus wrote: »

Relatively easy budget all round.

A couple earning €50k between them living in a home worth €199,999 or less, a car each and two kids will be out by around €20 a week, at most, taking everything into account.

For a couple on €50k, €20 a week is an adjustment that can be made without having to live in rags.

The biggest impact on most people is the removal of the PRSI floor, which is harsh but necessary. It'll bring in a shedload of money and creates a more equitable tax base.

You've essentially ignored the bombshell - you;ve assumed they've had the kids.

But all young families wanting to have kids are going to be hammered by maternity being taxed and hit with the USC.

That was the big landmine.

It looks very gender unbalanced

K-9

shedweller wrote: »

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

No, it'll go to fund stuff like pensions and Jobseekers benefit which are grossly underfunded.

The PRSI system is a joke in this country, compare it to NIC in the North to get a feell of how we expect a first world welfare and pension system with a tiny contribution.

We do have the USC which is a substantial payment, seems to go into a black hole somewhere.

everdead.ie

K-9 wrote: »

No, it'll go to fund stuff like pensions and Jobseekers benefit which are grossly underfunded.

The PRSI system is a joke in this country, compare it to NIC in the North to get a feell of how we expect a first world welfare and pension system with a tiny contribution.

We do have the USC which is a substantial payment, seems to go into a black hole somewhere.

Where does the USC go it's a bloody big chunck of wages.

I think FG have done a decent job in fairness we are slowly coming around, I think they probably needed something more symbolic than just removing the unvouched expenses system.

I think given all the news about ballyroe they could of announced a change to the future licencing agreements giving the state a 20% stake in any find larger than 100 mboe and gotten a lot of brownie points for it.