New Reg plates announced

Guy:Incognito

asdfgh86 wrote: »

Splitting the year has been successful in other countries and our dealerships are struggling to stay afloat so why not try something that might give them a slight boost? Because it's more fun to be pessimistic about everything?

If a dealer sells 200 cars in January then 10 a month for the other 11 months or sells 100 in Jan, 100 in Jul , and 11 a month for the other 10 are they going to be any better off?

challengemaster

asdfgh86 wrote: »

Jesus people will whinge about anything these days, cop yourselves on. Splitting the year in half is an attempt to spread sales out throughout the year. If it doesn't work no harm, it's hardly going to cost much to print 131 instead of 13. One poster said we'd be a laughing stock around Europe, do you think Belgium really gives a f*ck what our reg plates say? Another poster pulled out the old "people are struggling to survive and they spend money on this?" nonsense.

Splitting the year has been successful in other countries and our dealerships are struggling to stay afloat so why not try something that might give them a slight boost? Because it's more fun to be pessimistic about everything?

I've a feeling you're on your own if you can't see the stupidity of this. People are whinging because the country has far bigger problems than having "13" on a numberplate, which aren't getting attention.

80% of Irelands new car sales are in the first half of the year. It's because the cars are new. The other 20% is people trying to get a deal late in the year because dealers don't want to have last years stock lying around.

Splitting the number won't spread sales at all. It's only going to create a larger divide and make it easier for number plate snobs to be snobs. Anyone that played into the number plate thing previously and avoided second half buying, will still avoid buying a 132 car, because there's a 141 only around the corner. It's just made it more obvious if you buy a car in the second half of the year.

Oh, and if you're talking about it being successful in other countries, I hope you don't mean the UK. Their system splits the year at September, which means if there's no manufacturer change to the cars being sold, you essentially can buy a 2013 car from September. That's why it's boosted sales in the UK. Our new system is a Jan/June split, so it certainly won't have the same effect.

Dealerships are struggling to stay afloat because there's no value in new cars anymore. The country is broke. It's people are, for the most part, broke. New cars are far to expensive in Ireland. There is an abundance of second hand cars in the country already, and most are very cheap. That's why new car sales are down. People can't afford it. A stupid numberplate isn't giving people the money to spend on a new car.

asdfgh86

challengemaster wrote: »

I've a feeling you're on your own...

Fair points made challengemaster. Maybe you're right but I really don't like the argument of "oh the country's got much worse problems why are they wasting time on this", "how can we spend money on x when there's people waiting on hospital beds etc" It's a catch-all, flawed argument

Whether its a good idea or not, I doubt it's going to take much time, labour or economic resources away from some of the bigger picture problems.

R.O.R

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If a dealer sells 200 cars in January then 10 a month for the other 11 months or sells 100 in Jan, 100 in Jul , and 11 a month for the other 10 are they going to be any better off?

Actually, they are as it's only going to need 3 sales men for Jan and July and 1 for the rest of the year, rather than 6 in January and 1 for the rest of the year (figures pulled from me hole, but you get the idea).

It also means the dealership will have 2 medioum sales spikes at 2 points in the year rather than 1 huge one and then nothing. This helps massively from a budgetting and cash flow point of view.

Guy:Incognito

R.O.R wrote: »

Actually, they are as it's only going to need 3 sales men for Jan and July and 1 for the rest of the year, rather than 6 in January and 1 for the rest of the year (figures pulled from me hole, but you get the idea).

It also means the dealership will have 2 medioum sales spikes at 2 points in the year rather than 1 huge one and then nothing. This helps massively from a budgetting and cash flow point of view.

Does that not mean it's going to mean less jobs and sales will be same same? Good for owners ( of the garage) , not so good for sales staff.

Wonder how Simi will spin the positive on that.

Merch

If I am correct in my interpretation of what people are saying (after a page and a bit in the forum) and this is going ahead, then why just limit the designation to the first half and second half of the year?

they may as well just add a digit/character in after the year to differentiate each month.

so
131 D = Jan
132 TS = Feb
etc
130 C = Sept
13X KY = Oct
13Y D = Nov
13Z WX = Dec

X, Y, Z to account for 10, 11, 12th month ( X not roman numeral 10)
could be A, B, C , D, etc

Or just break the year into quarters
131, Jan-Mar
132, Apr-Jun
133, July-Sept
134, Oct-Dec

from_atozinc

So going forward if ones imports a car from the UK in 2 years time
So in November 2015 I import a UK car that was registered in the Uk in February 2013

Will this get a 131 reg ( as it was registered in the uk in February 2013 )

And then if I imported a uk car that was registered in the UK in December 2013, will that get a 132 reg ?

testicle

from_atozinc wrote: »

So going forward if ones imports a car from the UK in 2 years time
So in November 2015 I import a UK car that was registered in the Uk in February 2013

Will this get a 131 reg ( as it was registered in the uk in February 2013 )

And then if I imported a uk car that was registered in the UK in December 2013, will that get a 132 reg ?

Yes

georgefalls

Sofiztikated wrote: »

How does one become one of this lobby groups that seem to get all ridiculous ideas passed?

SIMI
Vintners
etc.

You get yourself sponsored, by one of the motor giants BMW MERC etc.
They give you a shiny new car every year, and pay all the costs.
Then you roll over and do whatever they want you to do. Simples..!!

CiniO

from_atozinc wrote: »

So going forward if ones imports a car from the UK in 2 years time
So in November 2015 I import a UK car that was registered in the Uk in February 2013

Will this get a 131 reg ( as it was registered in the uk in February 2013 )

And then if I imported a uk car that was registered in the UK in December 2013, will that get a 132 reg ?

That's for sure, but what I was wondering about if you import f.e. OCtober 2011 car next year, will you get 112 or 11 number?

Heroditas

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This change seems bedded in the fear that no one will buy a 13 reg.

Is that what this country has come to. A fear of a number ? Are people actually that ****ing stupid

Judging by the number of people who have their car cluttered with other nonsense like rosary beads and Padre Pio pictures festooned all over their dashboard and rear view mirror, then yes it would appear there is a large proportion of people with similar hang-ups and superstitions.

2ndcoming

challengemaster wrote: »

Oh, and if you're talking about it being successful in other countries, I hope you don't mean the UK. Their system splits the year at September, which means if there's no manufacturer change to the cars being sold, you essentially can buy a 2013 car from September. That's why it's boosted sales in the UK. Our new system is a Jan/June split, so it certainly won't have the same effect.

This is the key error for me, the timing of the split is all wrong. In July people are thinking of / are on / are paying for their holidays. In January people are turning over a new leaf, making resolutions, ready for a new challenge (taking on a huge and unnecessary debt buying something that will be 30% cheaper in a year's time). This is going to have very little effect in my opinion, if anything any increase in July sales will reflect in the decrease in May and June's sales.

Silvera

As a matter of interest, have 2013 Trade Plates been mentioned in the change?
(i.e. 'nnn-WW-131')

..or will they retain the same format as 2012, i.e. 'nnn-WW-13'

carchaeologist

Silvera wrote: »

As a matter of interest, have 2013 Trade Plates been mentioned in the change?
(i.e. 'nnn-WW-131')

..or will they retain the same format as 2012, i.e. 'nnn-WW-13'

A good point, there's a lot of stuff to figure out in the next month.

Gonna be interesting to see how all this pans out over the next year.

dougie-lampkin

If I import a '85 car today I'll get 85-LK-123 rather than OIV 123.

Does this mean if I import an '85 car next month I'll get 851-LK-123? That's going to look a bit daft. Although it might look pretty good on an early 90's 911

Silvera

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

If I import a '85 car today I'll get 85-LK-123 rather than OIV 123.

Does this mean if I import an '85 car next month I'll get 851-LK-123? That's going to look a bit daft. Although it might look pretty good on an early 90's 911

You will get an '85-LK-nnnnn' plate.
Old series plates like 'OIV 123' have not been issued since 31st Dec 1987.

'131' plates only apply to new vehicles registered from 1st Jan 2013.

CiniO

Silvera wrote: »

You will get an '85-LK-nnnnn' plate.
Old series plates like 'OIV 123' have not been issued since 31st Dec 1987.

'131' plates only apply to new vehicles registered from 1st Jan 2013.

How do you know?

dougie-lampkin

Silvera wrote: »

You will get an '85-LK-nnnnn' plate.
Old series plates like 'OIV 123' have not been issued since 31st Dec 1987.

'131' plates only apply to new vehicles registered from 1st Jan 2013.

I think you missed my question. If I register a pre-87 car in the next three weeks, I'm given a 1987-2012 style reg (or the option of ZV 123456 if it's pre '83). So it follows that if I register the same car next year, I'll be given a 2013 style reg, i.e, 851-LK-123?

If it's new vehicles only then it'll be possible to import an English car in January and get 13-LK-123?

CiniO

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

I think you missed my question. If I register a pre-87 car in the next three weeks, I'm given a 1987-2012 style reg (or the option of ZV 123456 if it's pre '83). So it follows that if I register the same car next year, I'll be given a 2013 style reg, i.e, 851-LK-123?

If it's new vehicles only then it'll be possible to import an English car in January and get 13-LK-123?

Another option is that split year numbers will apply only for cars from 13 onwards.
So f.e. if in 2015 you import 2012 car you will get 12-G-12345 while if you import 2013 car you will get 131-OY-1234

But until we actually see the legislation, we won't know for sure which option applies.

R.O.R

Silvera wrote: »

As a matter of interest, have 2013 Trade Plates been mentioned in the change?
(i.e. 'nnn-WW-131')

..or will they retain the same format as 2012, i.e. 'nnn-WW-13'

Not sure about that, will have to wait until our plates come through, but I thought of something else on the way home.

Will they not issue 131 plates in some counties up to 12, as they have probably already been issued as trade plates? Someone came in to me yesterday with a trade plate 141 D 12, so 131 D 12 must have been issued. Would follow that 131 D 11, 131 D 10 etc. have probably been issued too.

hi5

I don't see what difference a crossover with trade plates makes, trade plates are green with white digits and probably on a different system.
Do any of the old red with white digit trade plates still exist?

Silvera

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

I think you missed my question. If I register a pre-87 car in the next three weeks, I'm given a 1987-2012 style reg (or the option of ZV 123456 if it's pre '83). So it follows that if I register the same car next year, I'll be given a 2013 style reg, i.e, 851-LK-123?

If it's new vehicles only then it'll be possible to import an English car in January and get 13-LK-123?

As I stated in my last post, it will logically ONLY apply to new vehicles registered after Jan 2013. So yes, if you import a NEW UK vehicle after Jan '13 you will get a 131/132 reg (and pay thru the nose for your VRT).

Pre-Dec 2012 vehicles will logically be allocated '12-WW-nnnn, 11-WW-nnnn'...plates.

The whole "logic" of the new system is to "spread the sales" of NEW vehicles throughout the year.

Silvera

hi5 wrote: »

I don't see what difference a crossover with trade plates makes, trade plates are green with white digits and probably on a different system.
Do any of the old red with white digit trade plates still exist?

I see your point. However, they stopped issuing trade plates from '1' upwards since around 1996 due to cross-over with normal plates, i.e. trade plates from c.1996 started at '101' instead of '1'.

For example, in 1995 you could have had the normal plate '87-D-95' and the trade plate '87-D-95' both in use.

I reckon 2013 trade plates will end in '13'.

RE Old Series Trade Plates...do you mean are they still in use?
..or still physically exist? (I have old series pre-1993 trade plate in my garage).

suzanneSIMI

Hi Green Diesel - it wasn't changed because of fear of the number 13. It was to spread sales throughout the year

suzanneSIMI

it did work in the UK - they have 2 peaks in the year

ba_barabus

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

it did work in the UK - they have 2 peaks in the year

It's been a roaring success here......

MuppetCheck

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

it did work in the UK - they have 2 peaks in the year

Are you a rep from the SIMI or just in the fan club?

suzanneSIMI

work for SIMI

CiniO

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

it did work in the UK - they have 2 peaks in the year

ba_barabus wrote: »

It's been a roaring success here......

And it works even better in other countries where registratin year is not displayed on numberplate. In there there's no peaks at all (sales are spreaded quite evenly), and only a small slowdown by the end of the year.

JohnBoy26

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

Hi Green Diesel - it wasn't changed because of fear of the number 13. It was to spread sales throughout the year

It was a daft idea, and should not of been implimented. The new numbers look cat and kind of stupid, I and any other person I have spoke to about this would rather if the old system was reverted back to.

As for it spreading new car sales through out the year I just can't see it happening to be honest. There will be cars sold for two months of the year as opposed to one and it will be just half and half of the whole amount of cars sold in january on the old system so it's was pointless changing the system really .

Simi's daft ideas won't help car sales at all, the country is broke, not many people can afford to buy new cars at the moment, the sooner simi realises this the better as they are ruining the car industry with stupid ideas like this.

JohnBoy26

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

it did work in the UK - they have 2 peaks in the year

The UK reg system is vastly different from what we have here.

seamus

CiniO wrote: »

And it works even better in other countries where registratin year is not displayed on numberplate. In there there's no peaks at all (sales are spreaded quite evenly), and only a small slowdown by the end of the year.

While I think this is the ideal scenario from a sales and resell point of view, there is a lot to be said for the simplicity of the Irish plate. Yearless solutions basically require a bottomless pit of numbers, so you have to start throwing letters in there too. Makes registrations harder to remember and harder for image recognition technologies.

There are more creative ways around that too though, but it's hard to remove any kind of snobbery from the registration system unless you just assign a random string of characters to a vehicle, which is hard to remember or identify.

ba_barabus

CiniO wrote: »

And it works even better in other countries where registratin year is not displayed on numberplate.

Exactly. The same problem will exist. Once they see a 13 or 14 or 15 people will say its a 2013 car etc.

If its 132 it will be 12 months old in customers minds when the new 141 reg system comes in.

MuppetCheck

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

work for SIMI

The new reg system doesn't bother me in the slightest if I'm honest.

But I can see your members using the third digit as a stick to hit people with come trade in time, even though in reality it will make little difference to the people buying them.

djimi

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

it did work in the UK - they have 2 peaks in the year

But surely all splitting the year up is going to achieve is having two smaller peaks rather than one big one? Its not going to increase car sales any. Its also not going to spread the sales any more evenly, because after about 6 weeks into the new period Irish people being what we are will invariably want to wait for the start of the new period to get the "newer" plate, so surely splitting the year effectively ensures less sales in March-June and Sept-December?

Yakuza

seamus wrote: »

While I think this is the ideal scenario from a sales and resell point of view, there is a lot to be said for the simplicity of the Irish plate. Yearless solutions basically require a bottomless pit of numbers, so you have to start throwing letters in there too.

Spain has such a system, three letters and 4 digits in the format XXX 1234 (No vowels or Y iirc). It started with BBB 0000 in September 2000 and is up to something like HHK 0000, some 12½ years later. With 80 million permutations that should do them for a good few decades to come. If we adopted it, we'd be set up for the next century. The system isn't dateless as such as you would have a rough idea of a cars age by the letter sequence. When they reach the end, they could just swap around the numbers and letters and start again, or tack on another digit.

Prior to this, they had a similar system, but the reg numbers started with a regional identifier (M for Madrid, B for Barcelona etc) but one of the motivations for changing was to get rid of the regional ID, as it often led to, say M cars getting keyed in Bilbao).

The sooner we lose our attachment to a year-based reg (and we've only had it since 1987) the sooner we will come to our senses, and the better for us as it will cut down on getting gouged due to plate date snobbery.

seamus wrote: »

Makes registrations harder to remember

I doubt that

seamus wrote: »

and harder for image recognition technologies.

Now that's just nonsense - current reg plates here have one if not two letters in them already.

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

And it works even better in other countries where registratin year is not displayed on numberplate. In there there's no peaks at all (sales are spreaded quite evenly), and only a small slowdown by the end of the year.

Is this true? It certainly wasn't under our old system - the year of first registration has always mattered to buyers.

Zcott

Another argument on favour of the yearless numbers and letters system is the availability of custom registrations, which the government get to sell for a healthy profit.

Neilw

Zcott wrote: »

Another argument on favour of the yearless numbers and letters system is the availability of custom registrations, which the government get to sell for a healthy profit.

They had a little earner going when the fee to reserve a number was €315, they sold a good few each year. But they got greedy and put the price up to €1000 and have sold next to none since :mad:

I'm all for a yearless reg system and personialised reg's.

Zcott

Neilw wrote: »

They had a little earner going when the fee to reserve a number was €315, they sold a good few each year. But they got greedy and put the price up to €1000 and have sold next to none since :mad:

I'm all for a yearless reg system and personialised reg's.

In the UK the system is a blind auction for plates, so you could bid £10 and get it or be outbid at £2k, with an £80 transfer fee. Good earner for them! €1000 is a bit on the stupid side really...

seamus

Yakuza wrote: »

I doubt that

It's not a major deal but it's there. The human brain finds it easier to remember a sequence of numbers because it can do some funky stuff to help it remember, but letters tend to upset this.
Once you've remembered your own reg obviously it's not that big a deal but in terms of looking at a reg of a passing vehicle and recalling it, slotting in letters will decrease most people's accuracy.

Now that's just nonsense - current reg plates here have one if not two letters in them already.

From a fixed set of letters in a predictable pattern. This allows image recognition software more leeway because it can make clever guesses and assumptions and increases accuracy. For example, it knows that at position 3 you cannot have a numbe and can only be one of 10 possible letters, so that "D" cannot a zero or a B, it must be either a D or an O. Furthermore it can say that if there is no letter in position 4, then it can only be a "D", because the only county with an O is OY.

If you introduce a system where a character can be anyone of 26 letters or even a number or a letter, then it reduces the accuracy of any recognition software.

It doesn't make it impossible of course, just makes it more complex, especially when you start throwing in dirty plates and German fonts, etc.

It's a valid concern for any proposal to change the overall format.

creedp

seamus wrote: »

It's not a major deal but it's there. The human brain finds it easier to remember a sequence of numbers because it can do some funky stuff to help it remember, but letters tend to upset this.

I think the issue is though most people only look at/remember the first section of the current plate format

CiniO

Zcott wrote: »

Another argument on favour of the yearless numbers and letters system is the availability of custom registrations, which the government get to sell for a healthy profit.

Why do you think yearless system is requirement for custom registrations?

CiniO

seamus wrote: »

While I think this is the ideal scenario from a sales and resell point of view, there is a lot to be said for the simplicity of the Irish plate. Yearless solutions basically require a bottomless pit of numbers, so you have to start throwing letters in there too. Makes registrations harder to remember and harder for image recognition technologies.

Are you sure?
09-D-120564
That's 9 characters number plate.
Good luck to anyone to remember it when looking at car which had just hit and run.

Three letters and 3 number would make 17 million combinations, which is way more than Ireland would ever need.
It's way easier to read or remember 6 characters than 9.

There are more creative ways around that too though, but it's hard to remove any kind of snobbery from the registration system unless you just assign a random string of characters to a vehicle, which is hard to remember or identify.

Three letters and 3 numbers.

Example:
GUK496

This is easy to read, and even if someone just remembers GUK on it's own, then it's only 1000 possibilities.
While if someone remembers 01-D there might be hundred times more combinations possible.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

Is this true? It certainly wasn't under our old system - the year of first registration has always mattered to buyers.

I'm not an expert.
I know in Poland there isn't any year indicated on number plate.
What people pay attention to, is year of manufacture (in oppose to year of first reg).
So generally from about March up to October people tent buy new cars (mostly in the summer time, as for some reason people seem to prefer to buy new cars in the summer). Then for the end of the rear sales decrease, but then in January dealers are always left with cars manufactured in previous year, so those car are on sales with lowered prices. So people buy them until stock lasts (usually January maybe February) and then in March sales of current year cars kick off.

That way sales are generally spread over the year.

R.O.R

djimi wrote: »

But surely all splitting the year up is going to achieve is having two smaller peaks rather than one big one? Its not going to increase car sales any. Its also not going to spread the sales any more evenly, because after about 6 weeks into the new period Irish people being what we are will invariably want to wait for the start of the new period to get the "newer" plate, so surely splitting the year effectively ensures less sales in March-June and Sept-December?

I've only had one driver so far mention waiting for a 132 plate rather than getting a 131. He's due to change on the 1st June and will go 131 if the new car is available on that date. If it doesn't make it for the 1st June, then he may extend the current car for a month, and get a 132.

I do think it hasn't been done in the best way. Following the UK system of having the same identifier over 2 calender years would have been a better way of doing it, but I do think it's a positive thing overall (and I really don't like change).

It wasn't designed to increase sales, more to spread sales more evenely over the year. I think I pointed this out earlier in this thread, or maybe somewhere else.

It's probably not going to have a major impact this year, and possibly not much impact next year, but when the industry gets it's head around the system, there should be benfits to the consumers come trade in time. Hopefully the later plate (2) will be worth more than the early (1) plate when traded in against new vehicles.

RedorDead

suzanneSIMI wrote: »

Hi Green Diesel - it wasn't changed because of fear of the number 13. It was to spread sales throughout the year

In fairness Suzanne that is hogwash. It was changed from 13-D-12345 to 131-D-12345 because of superstition amongst dealers and public over number 13. The 132 element came in because of the desire to de-seasonalise the year to end the front loading in January. This is and will be an epic failure because the year is still identifiable in the reg number.

RedorDead

OSI wrote: »

I hope you've gone the route of being an authorised rep on boards.

Out of curiosity - why so and what difference does it make?

deandean

RedorDead wrote: »

Out of curiosity - why so and what difference does it make?

+1
A mod here can choose to post as a pleb while still identifiable as a Mod by his/her icon-thing, likewise suzanneSIMI can post here too, it is implicit that she is posting in a personal capacity and not Alan's mouthpiece.

BTW Suzanne 13 is my lucky number, I am very disappointed at the new numbering system, I now have to fork out €120,000 for this yoke to get me a 13-D-120001 registration:

suzanneSIMI

well we've been looking for a change to the plate for 5 years so it's not specific to 2013. You're right, many would want to see the year disappear from the plate altogether.