The once mighty Dutch league?

pmy.murphy

After seeing them go down 4-1 to Real Madrid last night it has not but made me wonder what has happened to the 4 time european cup winners. It was only back in 1995 that they last won it with the likes of the de boer brothers, overmars, bergkamp and edgar davids in their team and 1996 they reached the final. I find the phenomenon of Ajax quite interesting and I cant help but wonder why they cant compete with europes best anymore and have to keep selling players. I mean with the ultra modern stadium they have and the excellent academy, how are they struggling so much to build a really strong team with a blend of youth and established champions league players??? I also wonder how a club with such a rich history havent been taken over already by some multi billionaire owner like PSG, Anzhi, Man City. Does anybody think the new financial fair play rules will help an Ajax revival??

LiamoSail

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I cant help but wonder why they cant compete with europes best anymore and have to keep selling players. I mean with the ultra modern stadium they have and the excellent academy, how are they struggling so much to build a really strong team with a blend of youth and established champions league players??? ??

Tv revenue. You could say similar about Celtic. Epl club get something in the region of 50m per year. I think Celtic got 2m last year, and I'd imagine Ajax got a similar amount. Competing with those resources is impossible

Bounty Hunter

When most teams around europe didnt have foreign experts and had to rely on their home based and developed players Ajax were in their element. Brilliant at bringing through players and instilling a footballing ethos in them that contributed to some of the best players of that time wearing the red and white of Ajax. Now though with the best players from all around the world playing for big spending clubs like Chelsea, City, Madrid, Barca, PSG, Milan etc it can be harder to achieve success and with that financial reward especially when playing in one of the "smaller" leagues (TV revenue as mentioned above being uneven wouldnt help their plight). Unfortunatley money & success affect all then in terms of competing further with the best facilities, coaches & players being able to be attracted elsewhere. Ajax arent doing badly though its just hard to achieve what they did before in this modern era.

pmy.murphy

LiamoSail wrote: »

Tv revenue. You could say similar about Celtic. Epl club get something in the region of 50m per year. I think Celtic got 2m last year, and I'd imagine Ajax got a similar amount. Competing with those resources is impossible

I think it is completely ridiculous how football is monopolised these days with all the bigger clubs getting all the money. I wonder just how much the financial fair play rules will even it all out?

pmy.murphy

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I find the phenomenon of Ajax quite interesting and I cant help but wonder why they cant compete with europes best anymore and have to keep selling players. I mean with the ultra modern stadium they have and the excellent academy, how are they struggling so much to build a really strong team with a blend of youth and established champions league players??? I also wonder how a club with such a rich history havent been taken over already by some multi billionaire owner like PSG, Anzhi, Man City. Does anybody think the new financial fair play rules will help an Ajax revival??

I really do wonder if such comments are serious. Surely you do realise that they won't get anything like the TV money of UK or the two big Spanish clubs. They don't have the name-recognition of said clubs.

There's always a chance of a rich owner taking over, yes, but it'd be cheaper to buy an Anzhi rather than Ajax.

LiamoSail

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I think it is completely ridiculous how football is monopolised these days with all the bigger clubs getting all the money. I wonder just how much the financial fair play rules will even it all out?

It won't, it will just rein in the likes of Chelsea, psg and city. The clubs with high revenues, the likes of utd, barca and real etc will be largely unaffected

brinty

Bergkamp was not in their 95 team
they have always been a team made up of their youth production system and sell on...a barca lite...i.e all teams play same system as first team..so all players know the Ajax way and can go straight into the first team
this was an exceptional team with some solid older players...Van der saar, Blind, de Boers, Litmanen etc
TV money is small as league is uncompetitive like Scotland..90% of titles won by Ajax or PSV so little appeal
Also like most continental clubs they are owned by their members so a rich sugardaddy can't buy the club..if they could why wouldn't someone have already bought Barca, Real (altough effectively owned by king of Spain) etc

pmy.murphy

Deleted User wrote: »

I really do wonder if such comments are serious. Surely you do realise that they won't get anything like the TV money of UK or the two big Spanish clubs. They don't have the name-recognition of said clubs.

There's always a chance of a rich owner taking over, yes, but it'd be cheaper to buy an Anzhi rather than Ajax.

Ok lets take the likes of the portuguese clubs. They are more than able to compete and they are in a relatively weak league, Porto won the champions league 8 years ago and the europa 2 years ago beating Braga in the final. Porto and the likes of Benfica are always challenging for the knockout stages every year also. Why cant the likes of Ajax even compete in a similar way?

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

I really do wonder if such comments are serious. Surely you do realise that they won't get anything like the TV money of UK or the two big Spanish clubs. They don't have the name-recognition of said clubs.

There's always a chance of a rich owner taking over, yes, but it'd be cheaper to buy an Anzhi rather than Ajax.

They have a hell of a lot more name recognition than Manchester City or Chelsea.

The population of the Netherlands is relatively small so the TV money for their league is relatively small. And as Bounty Hunter says nowadays you can't hope to hold on to your better players because the big boys will be around to buy them.

Pro. F

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Ok lets take the likes of the portuguese clubs. They are more than able to compete and they are in a relatively weak league, Porto won the champions league 8 years ago and the europa 2 years ago beating Braga in the final. Porto and the likes of Benfica are always challenging for the knockout stages every year also. Why cant the likes of Ajax even compete in a similar way?

Yeah that's interesting because Portugal is an even smaller country in terms of population. Maybe are the Portuguese clubs advantaged by being an attractive destination for South American players? I know most South Americans speak Spanish, but the two languages are very similar.

Also, it was Porto who won both the CL and two EL titles. They have somehow made themselves a massive club who are always bursting with talent.

pmy.murphy

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah that's interesting because Portugal is an even smaller country in terms of population. Maybe are the Portuguese clubs advantaged by being an attractive destination for South American players? I know most South Americans speak Spanish, but the two languages are very similar.

Also, it was Porto who won both the CL and two EL titles. They have somehow made themselves a massive club who are always bursting with talent.

Thats the difference, they can hold onto players that bit longer than Ajax can and after reading numerous articles about ajax and their philosophy I think thats what Frank de Boer is trying to do to make ajax a force again in europe because lets face it he has no other option

aidan24326

They've always produced excellent young players and their youth academy is one of the best in the business but these days their best young players get snapped up by the big hitters, although it must be said they're not producing great young players as much as they used to. The financial dominance of the big few means that even a relatively big club like Ajax are now becoming a feeder club. They have no chance of matching the kind of wages being offered at City,Chelsea,Real etc

pmy.murphy

aidan24326 wrote: »

They've always produced excellent young players and their youth academy is one of the best in the business but these days their best young players get snapped up by the big hitters, although it must be said they're not producing great young players as much as they used to. The financial dominance of the big few means that even a relatively big club like Ajax are now becoming a feeder club. They have no chance of matching the kind of wages being offered at City,Chelsea,Real etc

but financial fair play is being brought in now I cant help but wonder how it will help ajax?

pmy.murphy

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Ok lets take the likes of the portuguese clubs. They are more than able to compete and they are in a relatively weak league, Porto won the champions league 8 years ago and the europa 2 years ago beating Braga in the final. Porto and the likes of Benfica are always challenging for the knockout stages every year also. Why cant the likes of Ajax even compete in a similar way?

Porto had The Chosen One (I won't call him what he liked to call himself :P ) and are ridiculously well-run when it comes to buying and selling players but it'll be a while til they win anything again. They seem to have a good set-up in South America. Porto are very much the exception.

Pro. F wrote: »

They have a hell of a lot more name recognition than Manchester City or Chelsea.

And no sheikh or oligarch, what's your point? You don't need high revenues and name-recognition and an insane owner, 1 or 2 of those will do.

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

And no sheikh or oligarch, what's your point? You don't need high revenues and name-recognition and an insane owner, 1 or 2 of those will do.

My point was that you were wrong about name recognition.

pmy.murphy

pmy.murphy wrote: »

but financial fair play is being brought in now I cant help but wonder how it will help ajax?

It'll solidify them around the top 20 in Europe. FFP, if it works, will only help maintain the status quo.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

My point was that you were wrong about name recognition.

I was referring more to Arsenal and United, Liverpool to some extent. I'd also wager Chelsea hae a fair few fans in Asia. It'll depend on one's definition of name recognition though, I'm sure a helluva lot of people in Ireland will have heard of Borussia Moenchengladbach but many wouldn't be much use in terms of revenue generation or only heard of them because of the funny name.

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

I was referring more to Arsenal and United, Liverpool to some extent. I'd also wager Chelsea hae a fair few fans in Asia. It'll depend on one's definition of name recognition though, I'm sure a helluva lot of people in Ireland will have heard of Borussia Moenchengladbach but many wouldn't be much use in terms of revenue generation or only heard of them because of the funny name.

I think whatever way you define name recognition it would seem like it doesn't help much. Money and success (if it leads to money) are what matters.

kitakyushu

Not to contradict anything that has been written here so far (most of which I agree with) but the perception that Ajax have ever been a consistent European superpower since their 70's breakthru is not an accurate one imho.

No doubt the years since their last CL win have been lean but likewise their record between the years 74-95 wasn't exactly stellar either. They picked up a UEFA Cup and CWC win during that period and had the odd good cup run, but during that period were as likely to go out in the first round of the UEFA cup as pose a serious challenge for silverware.

pmy.murphy

kitakyushu wrote: »

Not to contradict anything that has been written here so far (most of which I agree with) but the perception that Ajax have ever been a consistent European superpower since their 70's breakthru is not an accurate one imho.

No doubt the years since their last CL win have been lean but likewise their record between the years 74-95 wasn't exactly stellar either. They picked up a UEFA Cup and CWC win during that period and had the odd good cup run, but during that period were as likely to go out in the first round of the UEFA cup as pose a serious challenge for silverware.

But the late 80s, the rise of Ajax also coincided with the rise of the great dutch national team

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

I think whatever way you define name recognition it would seem like it doesn't help much. Money and success (if it leads to money) are what matters.

Well it does matter if it generates revenue. There's a reason teams are trying to get their names and "brands" popularised through Asia and the rest.

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

Well it does matter if it generates revenue. There's a reason teams are trying to get their names and "brands" popularised through Asia and the rest.

If you are just talking about name recognition in Asia then yeah I could believe that Ajax wouldn't have the same draw as teams from the PL and Primera.

pmy.murphy

Pro. F wrote: »

If you are just talking about name recognition in Asia then yeah I could believe that Ajax wouldn't have the same draw as teams from the PL and Primera.

I think Ajax should experimenetwith setting up academies in asia, merchandising etc to help build their image and also revenue

baalthor

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah that's interesting because Portugal is an even smaller country in terms of population. Maybe are the Portuguese clubs advantaged by being an attractive destination for South American players? I know most South Americans speak Spanish, but the two languages are very similar.

There are over 140 million Portuguese speakers in South America and many of them are quite good at football

Hidalgo

Name recognition is one thing but whats important is getting the team on TV to as wide an audience globally. That's why EPL teams are well known in Asia.

The whole Hamsterdam thing really destroyed them

baalthor

baalthor wrote: »

There are over 140 million Portuguese speakers in South America and many of them are quite good at football

Have they maybe a separate arrangement with Brazil about work visas and the like over and above the general EU rules? Or just more relaxed maybe. It can be hard in some circumstances in Britain to get a work visa unless one was already got elsewhere in the EU.

Pro. F

baalthor wrote: »

There are over 140 million Portuguese speakers in South America and many of them are quite good at football

No shít.

NIMAN

Now a feeder club, like many famous names of the past.

pmy.murphy

NIMAN wrote: »

Now a feeder club, like many famous names of the past.

Who are the other famous names who are feeder clubs??

allybhoy

pmy.murphy wrote: »

After seeing them go down 4-1 to Real Madrid last night it has not but made me wonder what has happened to the 4 time european cup winners. It was only back in 1995 that they last won it with the likes of the de boer brothers, overmars, bergkamp and edgar davids in their team and 1996 they reached the final. I find the phenomenon of Ajax quite interesting and I cant help but wonder why they cant compete with europes best anymore and have to keep selling players. I mean with the ultra modern stadium they have and the excellent academy, how are they struggling so much to build a really strong team with a blend of youth and established champions league players??? I also wonder how a club with such a rich history havent been taken over already by some multi billionaire owner like PSG, Anzhi, Man City. Does anybody think the new financial fair play rules will help an Ajax revival??

In fairness they had a fairly tough group and managed to finish above City, thats not a bad achievment in itself. Any team going to the Bernabéu could get beaten 4-1 on a given day.

Yes they won it in 95 but thats 18 years ago, how much has the game "progressed" since then. It's a cliche but it literally was a completely different game back then. Sure Blackburn won the PL that year, going by your train of thought say why are they relegated and not challenging for the PL every year. How much has the game even progressed since 2005 when liverpool won it?

Francie Barrett

Deleted User wrote: »

It'll solidify them around the top 20 in Europe. FFP, if it works, will only help maintain the status quo.

Ajax will probably never be able to compete with the big European teams like they have in the past and FFP won't do much to help either. Eredivisie clubs get less than £100 million a year in TV money. Premier League clubs on the other hand will get close to £2 billion in TV money.

Ajax don't have a hope in competing with that.

Francie Barrett

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Ok lets take the likes of the portuguese clubs. They are more than able to compete and they are in a relatively weak league, Porto won the champions league 8 years ago and the europa 2 years ago beating Braga in the final. Porto and the likes of Benfica are always challenging for the knockout stages every year also. Why cant the likes of Ajax even compete in a similar way?

Portuguese football is fcuked as well. All the big clubs are in debt to their eyeballs and the likes of Braga and Sporting Lisbon are close to bankruptcy.

The_Kew_Tour

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Portuguese football is fcuked as well. All the big clubs are in debt to their eyeballs and the likes of Braga and Sporting Lisbon are close to bankruptcy.

Did not know that.

Will clubs ever learn.

Carlos_Ray

The power balance in football is always shifting. Unfortunately for Ajax their fall was more dramatic than most because of the Bosman ruling. However, given the way in which the game has gone in recent years its becoming increasingly hard for any clubs from small nations to make an impact in Europe. Qualification for the knock-out stages of the champions league is now a major achievement for teams like Ajax and Celtic. Go back thirty plus years ago and they were among the best in Europe.

What's happening with clubs like PSG, City, Chelsea, and Anzhi, is destroying football in my opinion. If the financial fair play rules are not strictly imposed historic clubs like Ajax will never again be able to genuinely compete for European honours. Football is being taken from the fans and given to billionaire Playboys as leisure/ego projects.

Seeing Abromovich lifting the European cup I feel was a dark day in European football. I have nothing against Chelsea, but their owner is the personification of footballs modern failings. Sadly, it's quite possible that clubs like Chelsea will experience an extreme bust in the future when the flow of money stops. Just like Ireland in the boom time nobody wants to mention the inevitable, but I genuinely believe that in 20 or 30 years time, some major clubs in Europe will have folded completely after economic ruin. Their trophies will be of little comfort to them then.

AnCapaillMor

It's the TV money and i think the over inflated wages that the sugar daddy clubs have brought in is a major factor too, Agents\players once they get a good review are immediately looking elsewhere. Ajax can't compete in wages.

NIMAN

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Who are the other famous names who are feeder clubs??

Well there's plenty that were once 'big' who now would often have any talent poached by the nouveau riche.

Off the top of my head you could say likes of Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Sevilla, Valencia, Napoli, Torino, Anderlecht, Everton, Celtic etc. Given the transfers of recent years you could say that even teams up to the level of Arsenal are a feeder club now as well.

All once famous clubs who simply cannot hold on to any decent player they produce due to the fact that they need to raise money to stay in business, and can't turn down any offer from the vultures when they circle.

All but the top few teams in each league are feeders for their own league, and then even the top teams in some of those leagues are feeders for the bigger leagues again, and Ajax fit this example.

For me the only way to stop this happening is by limiting the number of foreigners allowed in each squad, but that ain't going to happen.

Xavi6

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Who are the other famous names who are feeder clubs??

Arsenal :pac:

DoctorGonzo08

The thread seems to focus on the argument of money being the only cause. You only have to look at who was running the club at the time those players came throught that dominated Europe, and to where the went. Laudrup, Cryuff & co. all moved to Barca in some form or the other, and a decade later you have Barca dominating Europe.

Alot can be said of money, and it is a big factor, but there are some in football who don't get the credit they deserve for what they do behind the scenes.

pickarooney

Money is obviously a major factor, even the major factor. The Dutch population is not very big and in general very reluctant to pay large sums of money just to watch sport on telly but there are also strict rules in the Netherlands about how you can run your club. It's simply not allowed to run up huge debts and clubs can get relegated for debts that would seem laughable to English clubs. AFAIK PSV had to sell their stadium when they ran up a loss equivalent to half an Andy Carroll.

Patience is probably another factor. Fans, owners, players, journalists - nobody seems to want to allow anyone time to realise a project that last more than two weeks. Players will jump ship to bigger clubs at the first opportunity, managers get fired after a few losses so there's no chance to put together a long-term plan of bringing through talented youths and building a team who grow together into a force to be reckoned with.

Shaktar Donetsk are the new Ajax, although they do have a handy trillionaire running the show.

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Ajax will probably never be able to compete with the big European teams like they have in the past and FFP won't do much to help either. Eredivisie clubs get less than £100 million a year in TV money. Premier League clubs on the other hand will get close to £2 billion in TV money.

Ajax don't have a hope in competing with that.

I don't expect them to compete with United or Barcelona but they should be better able to maintain their current position once it's made harder for someone to throw hundreds of millions into a no-mark team. They're currently 24th in the co-efficient standings, they shouldn't fall much from there.

dfx-

pmy.murphy wrote: »

After seeing them go down 4-1 to Real Madrid last night it has not but made me wonder what has happened to the 4 time european cup winners. It was only back in 1995 that they last won it with the likes of the de boer brothers, overmars, bergkamp and edgar davids in their team and 1996 they reached the final. I find the phenomenon of Ajax quite interesting and I cant help but wonder why they cant compete with europes best anymore and have to keep selling players. I mean with the ultra modern stadium they have and the excellent academy, how are they struggling so much to build a really strong team with a blend of youth and established champions league players??? I also wonder how a club with such a rich history havent been taken over already by some multi billionaire owner like PSG, Anzhi, Man City. Does anybody think the new financial fair play rules will help an Ajax revival??

I don't think Ajax need a revival so to speak. They're regularly in Europe and were robbed by Dinamo Zagreb of a knockout place last year in the Champions League and still bring along excellent players.

The 96 team was an incredible side, it'll be tough to match that team even if you were given a billionaire owner to do it.

pmy.murphy

NIMAN wrote: »

Well there's plenty that were once 'big' who now would often have any talent poached by the nouveau riche.

Off the top of my head you could say likes of Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Sevilla, Valencia, Napoli, Torino, Anderlecht, Everton, Celtic etc. Given the transfers of recent years you could say that even teams up to the level of Arsenal are a feeder club now as well.

All once famous clubs who simply cannot hold on to any decent player they

For me the only way to stop this happening is by limiting the number of foreigners allowed in each squad, but that ain't going to happen.

Okay I think Id agree with the 3 dutch clubs, Celtic and Everton being feeder clubs and Anderlecht and now Arsenal aswell but I dont think Napoli are exactly a selling club.

8-10

dfx- wrote: »

The 96 team was an incredible side, it'll be tough to match that team even if you were given a billionaire owner to do it.

The 2003-ish side was the last time we had a number of really good young players at once, many of whom went on to the bigger leagues with varying success. We had Chivu, Maxwell, de Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar, Sneijder, van der Vaart, Ibrahimovic...etc and but for ex-Feyenoord player Jon Dahl-Tomasson's injury time winner for Milan (my most disappointing night watching soccer), we would have been against Inter in the Champions League semi, less than 10yrs ago. Was heartbreaking.

Honestly I've been delighted with the past few seasons. After being pipped to the title when we were the best team in the league, we came back to win our 30th league in 2011, following it with another lucky one in 2012. Finishing 3rd in a group with the German, Spanish and English champions is something that very few of the other champions league teams would have done. Real and Dortmund are both top sides and deserve to go through.

I'm on my phone so I'm not going to comment too much but seeing as I'm the token Ajax fan on Boards I thought I'd chime in. As a fan I've seen much worse Ajax teams than the current one. We're not going to win the league or the Europa, we're not going to recreate the 95 team in the next 5 years. But the philosophy of playing soccer and teaching soccer remains, players will still come through, scouts will still bring in good prospects and we will still be one of the top teams in Holland.

I'd rather the academy and system that we have than the billions of other clubs. Like City. Who aren't even in Europe anymore.

pmy.murphy

8-10 wrote: »

The 2003-ish side was the last time we had a number of really good young players at once, many of whom went on to the bigger leagues with varying success. We had Chivu, Maxwell, de Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar, Sneijder, van der Vaart, Ibrahimovic...etc and but for ex-Feyenoord player Jon Dahl-Tomasson's injury time winner for Milan (my most disappointing night watching soccer), we would have been against Inter in the Champions League semi, less than 10yrs ago. Was heartbreaking.

Honestly I've been delighted with the past few seasons. After being pipped to the title when we were the best team in the league, we came back to win our 30th league in 2011, following it with another lucky one in 2012. Finishing 3rd in a group with the German, Spanish and English champions is something that very few of the other champions league teams would have done. Real and Dortmund are both top sides and deserve to go through.

I'm on my phone so I'm not going to comment too much but seeing as I'm the token Ajax fan on Boards I thought I'd chime in. As a fan I've seen much worse Ajax teams than the current one. We're not going to win the league or the Europa, we're not going to recreate the 95 team in the next 5 years. But the philosophy of playing soccer and teaching soccer remains, players will still come through, scouts will still bring in good prospects and we will still be one of the top teams in Holland.

I'd rather the academy and system that we have than the billions of other clubs. Like City. Who aren't even in Europe anymore.

To be honest, Ajax are interesting me so much that I think Im turning into a fan of them too. They have always been my favourite dutch club though

764dak

8-10 wrote: »

The 2003-ish side was the last time we had a number of really good young players at once, many of whom went on to the bigger leagues with varying success. We had Chivu, Maxwell, de Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar, Sneijder, van der Vaart, Ibrahimovic...etc and but for ex-Feyenoord player Jon Dahl-Tomasson's injury time winner for Milan (my most disappointing night watching soccer), we would have been against Inter in the Champions League semi, less than 10yrs ago. Was heartbreaking.

Honestly I've been delighted with the past few seasons. After being pipped to the title when we were the best team in the league, we came back to win our 30th league in 2011, following it with another lucky one in 2012. Finishing 3rd in a group with the German, Spanish and English champions is something that very few of the other champions league teams would have done. Real and Dortmund are both top sides and deserve to go through.

I'm on my phone so I'm not going to comment too much but seeing as I'm the token Ajax fan on Boards I thought I'd chime in. As a fan I've seen much worse Ajax teams than the current one. We're not going to win the league or the Europa, we're not going to recreate the 95 team in the next 5 years. But the philosophy of playing soccer and teaching soccer remains, players will still come through, scouts will still bring in good prospects and we will still be one of the top teams in Holland.

I'd rather the academy and system that we have than the billions of other clubs. Like City. Who aren't even in Europe anymore.

The last great Dutch team for me was PSV. PSV made the semifinals of the UCL in 2005 and lost on away goals to AC Milan. That team also made the quarterfinals in 2007 and even knocked out Arsenal.

764dak

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/20/roman-abramovich-chelsea

This is an interesting article.

General Relativity

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Okay I think Id agree with the 3 dutch clubs, Celtic and Everton being feeder clubs and Anderlecht and now Arsenal aswell but I dont think Napoli are exactly a selling club.

What? Ki and McGeady are the only players to be sold in the last 3 years that weren't excess fat.

AnCapaillMor

764dak wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/20/roman-abramovich-chelsea

This is an interesting article.

No doubt, probably Chelsea's 2nd most important goal ever, drogba's last year being number 1. Roman was sniffing arounfd the prem at the time, he was kenyon's guest at OT a few times.

Cienciano

Pro. F wrote: »

They have a hell of a lot more name recognition than Manchester City or Chelsea.

I'd disagree with that. I've travelled around Asia, Africa and South America over the last few years and there's a hell of a lot of locals wearing chelsea jerseys. Not very many ajax, if any at all that I noticed anyway.
City mightn't be as popular, but since they won the league they'll be popping up everywhere too.

Jelle1880

Wearing a jersey doesn't mean anything with regards to name recognition, I'm pretty sure that if you would mention Ajax in any part of the world people would recognize the name.