The once mighty Dutch league?

pmy.murphy

spiralism wrote: »

If Feyenoord had signed a striker back in the summer, there'd be a very real title push on. It's the best all around team in the league and performs well in big games but has nothing up front.

Specifically, passing on Guidetti was a big mistake, he actually phoned players asking for them to put in a word with Rutten and the board to bring him back.

Id have to agree as an ajax fan that feyenoord have the best all round team and squad in the league. Considering they haveManu injured and Vilhena and Boulahrouz on the bench it is a very strong squad. I watched them quite a bit in the Europa league and was very impressed with their performances especelly against Sevilla at de Kuip. Tough ask against Roma in the next round though but would like to see them do well in europe. Their definately the ones who have impresssed me the most out of the dutch clubs

inforfun

Can see them do well against Roma actually.

They have a habit of doing well against Italians, the usual exception of the rule being away to Juve many years ago (5-1).

5000 fans going to Rome.
Hope they ll behave.

pmy.murphy

inforfun wrote: »

Can see them do well against Roma actually.

They have a habit of doing well against Italians, the usual exception of the rule being away to Juve many years ago (5-1).

5000 fans going to Rome.
Hope they ll behave.

De Kuip will be rocking for the home game Id say. Its some stadium in fairness in terms of atmosphere

spiralism

inforfun wrote: »

Can see them do well against Roma actually.

They have a habit of doing well against Italians, the usual exception of the rule being away to Juve many years ago (5-1).

5000 fans going to Rome.
Hope they ll behave.

There's also the thing with Italian sides not giving a **** about the europa and having the grounds half empty. Here's hoping anyways

Will they **** behave, the Roma Ultras kick off easily enough and that's all it's gonna take for some of those travelling.

De Kuip will be buzzing, it is some ground for atmosphere in fairness, Sevilla at home was the best atmosphere i ever experienced at a game... there just better be tickets available by the time i get paid at the end of the week!

inforfun

Was hoping Roma would be closer to Juve around those EL matches so the had to make choices.
Looks serie A is well and truly over now.

And about De Kuip.... If your first ever live match is a visit to De Kuip, you are hooked for life. Nothing comes even close.

8-10

Are we discussing Ajax or Feyenoord here?

inforfun

Well, we were discussing Ajax - Feyenoord yesterday.
So... both?

8-10

inforfun wrote: »

Well, we were discussing Ajax - Feyenoord yesterday.
So... both?

I'm fine discussing the game but unless it's a general Eredivisie discussion thread I think it should be kept separate. I like this thread for discussing Ajax, and if that is not it's purpose then I'll unfollow, otherwise that's the topic I expect to see. I have no interest in discussing Feyenoord as I have a strong dislike for them, in the same way I don't like seeing extensive posts about United in the Liverpool thread. Last couple of posts have nothing to do with Ajax or the game yesterday as far as I can tell.

inforfun

This has been a thread about Dutch football in general since your post #66 in 2012.
It was brought back to life in july 2014.

And now you are complaining that is it is not about Ajax only anymore?

8-10

inforfun wrote: »

This has been a thread about Dutch football in general since your post #66 in 2012.
It was brought back to life in july 2014.

And now you are complaining that is it is not about Ajax only anymore?

A title change might clear it up. As I said that's fine, I'll just unfollow.

Ordinary man

If it's a general dutch football thread, can someone tell me how highly rated is vejinovic of vitesse? I saw him in one game and he looked top class. His stats seem outstanding for a lower league team.

inforfun

Ordinary man wrote: »

If it's a general dutch football thread, can someone tell me how highly rated is vejinovic of vitesse? I saw him in one game and he looked top class. His stats seem outstanding for a lower league team.

Good player, not sure if he has what it takes to be real top.
Already playing in the Dutch league for 6 seasons now.
Djuricic of Heerenveen was rated higher, went to Benfica and has done nothing there.

Dont think i have ever read about interest from teams outside Holland for him. Not of teams of a better standard than Vitesse in any case.

Vitesse is much better than their 12th place suggest. With the players they have they should be fighting for 4th, 5th,6th place.
But as with more Dutch teams, centre forward position is the problem.
Put a 20+ goal scorer in that team and they would be playing for the league win.

GavRedKing

Thread title changed.....

spiralism

inforfun wrote: »

Good player, not sure if he has what it takes to be real top.
Already playing in the Dutch league for 6 seasons now.
Djuricic of Heerenveen was rated higher, went to Benfica and has done nothing there.

Dont think i have ever read about interest from teams outside Holland for him. Not of teams of a better standard than Vitesse in any case.

Vitesse is much better than their 12th place suggest. With the players they have they should be fighting for 4th, 5th,6th place.
But as with more Dutch teams, centre forward position is the problem.

Put a 20+ goal scorer in that team and they would be playing for the league win.

*sighs deeply*

Yep. That sounds familiar.

inforfun

Meet the new owner of ADO Den Haag, Hui Wang.

Announced during the weekend he would take part in training today.

Actually surprised by ADO's trainer, Henk Fraser, who didnt see any harm in it as long as it wasnt a tactical training.

Henk Fraser as a player took no bull ****.

keeponhurling

^ just somebody doing what his boss tells him to do

AllGunsBlazing

You just know it's only a matter of time before one of these fellas demands a place in the team for their kid. Or has this happened already?

inforfun

Possibly. Not in Holland (yet)

Only 2 Dutch clubs are currently foreign owned, Vitesse and now ADO.
Vitesse have had their fair share of soaps with their first foreign owner selling the club on to the next guy and then being banned from the stadium.
Both of them being Abramovic' sock puppet. As you can see by the amount of Chelsea loanees of the years.

Now this Chinese fella that bought ADO back in the summer but only last week finally paid.

The really rich guys, buying the big clubs, i dont trust too much already but these clowns.....

As for ADO ... to be continued. No doubt.

pmy.murphy

inforfun wrote: »

Possibly. Not in Holland (yet)

Only 2 Dutch clubs are currently foreign owned, Vitesse and now ADO.
Vitesse have had their fair share of soaps with their first foreign owner selling the club on to the next guy and then being banned from the stadium.
Both of them being Abramovic' sock puppet. As you can see by the amount of Chelsea loanees of the years.

Now this Chinese fella that bought ADO back in the summer but only last week finally paid.

The really rich guys, buying the big clubs, i dont trust too much already but these clowns.....

As for ADO ... to be continued. No doubt.

Im wondering would ADO start spending money to make them challenge for the big titles like the Eredivisie etc. Financial Fair Play is unlikely to affect them as they will not be in Eropean Competition? Be interesting to see how it unfolds

inforfun

Maybe, but it would be a temporary success i think.

AZ tried 2x with a private owner, did succeed with winning the league in both occasions but the club came in severe weather when those owners went bankrupt at 1 point.
Vitesse had all the talk of how they would join the big 3 and it is not happening. Can do it with loanees. If they are good to bring you up the league, they ll be gone the next year.
In the mean time their stadium is half empty because people just cant connect to a team where most of them will be gone next year anyway.

Twente has been trying hard to get into the mix with Feyenoord, Ajax and PSV by paying ridiculous salaries and having murky constructions when buying players.
Most of their valuable players are on high wages while Twente is not owning more than 30% of the transfer rights for them.
€60 million in debt, in severe danger of getting points deducted next month.
And all that to win the title in 2010 and a cup at 1 point.

1 Good thing i read about ADO though, they will get rid of their plastic pitch after this season thankfully.
Hope more will follow that example.

spiralism

Twente by the sounds of it are making the same mistakes that Feyenoord did a few years back. Next few years for them will hurt if that's the case

inforfun

Feyenoord ****ed up differently.
Took Gullit on as a manager and had him buy 16 players in 1 season.

Then when Van Marwijk came back for 1 season (2008, year of the 100 year existence of the club) they had a bunch of oldies coming back from abroad (Van Bronckhorst, Makaay, Hofland) and paid them ridiculous money in the hope to win the league and get into the CL.

Didnt work like that. Won the cup and Van Marwijk buggered of to the Dutch national team.

adox

inforfun wrote: »

Meet the new owner of ADO Den Haag, Hui Wang.

Announced during the weekend he would take part in training today.

Actually surprised by ADO's trainer, Henk Fraser, who didnt see any harm in it as long as it wasnt a tactical training.

Henk Fraser as a player took no bull ****.

Have a soft spot for Den Haag as have friends over there and eggy are season ticket holders. Was over there In November last year and went to see them against Willem 11. Cracking little stadium and great atmosphere. Under the floodlights too which helped.

spiralism

Yeah Den Haag have cracking fans, best away support i've seen at De Kuip. Made an enormous racket and tons of colour. Probably the best fanbase in the league after Feyenoord.

Go Ahead Eagles have a great fanbase too, for that matter.

8-10

spiralism wrote: »

Go Ahead Eagles have a great fanbase too, for that matter.

Used to have their own subforum here but it was dead even on match days

spiralism

Van Bronckhorst has been named Feyenoord manager from the end of this season.

Assuming that De Boer and Cocu stick around at Ajax and PSV that means that the big three will be all coached by legendary ex players which i find pretty awesome.

CSF

spiralism wrote: »

Van Bronckhorst has been named Feyenoord manager from the end of this season.

Assuming that De Boer and Cocu stick around at Ajax and PSV that means that the big three will be all coached by legendary ex players which i find pretty awesome.

All Ex-Barca too!!!

inforfun

CSF wrote: »

All Ex-Barca too!!!

Every Dutch player that age is ex-Barca

Van Gaal in charge over there meant they had about 12 Dutch people on the pay roll ( Van Gaal and a couple of coaches included)

Peist2007

Whence was this league once mighty?

Ulysses Gaze

Peist2007 wrote: »

Whence was this league once mighty?

70's and 1980's primarily.

inforfun

Peist2007 wrote: »

Whence was this league once mighty?

Peist2007

inforfun wrote: »

Ha ha good man Seinfeld

Would you have referred to the Portuguese league as mighty in, say, 2004? One team winning a European Cup does not make a league mighty. Add in Benfica's relatively recent success in the European Cup and arguably Portugal should be above Holland in the pecking order. But no one calls the Portuguese great or even once great.

I appreciate the great Ajax team of the 1970s etc but what else was there to make the Dutch league great? We dont eulogise about the greatness of Romanian football despite Steau Bucharest's European Cup success.

Shanotheslayer

Peist2007 wrote: »

Ha ha good man Seinfeld

Would you have referred to the Portuguese league as mighty in, say, 2004? One team winning a European Cup does not make a league mighty. Add in Benfica's relatively recent success in the European Cup and arguably Portugal should be above Holland in the pecking order. But no one calls the Portuguese great or even once great.

I appreciate the great Ajax team of the 1970s etc but what else was there to make the Dutch league great? We dont eulogise about the greatness of Romanian football despite Steau Bucharest's European Cup success.

I think it's more to the players who came from there?

I'd hazard a guess that Infor probably knows about the Dutch league more than anyone on Boards, but what I recall, they used to always have great players coming from there but always ended getting sold to bigger clubs?

I could be wrong tho, just speculated.

spiralism

Peist2007 wrote: »

Ha ha good man Seinfeld

Would you have referred to the Portuguese league as mighty in, say, 2004? One team winning a European Cup does not make a league mighty. Add in Benfica's relatively recent success in the European Cup and arguably Portugal should be above Holland in the pecking order. But no one calls the Portuguese great or even once great.

I appreciate the great Ajax team of the 1970s etc but what else was there to make the Dutch league great? We dont eulogise about the greatness of Romanian football despite Steau Bucharest's European Cup success.

All of the big three have a european cup, Ajax have four.

Benfica have a grand total of zero european titles since the 60s. PSV and Ajax have both won a european cup in the last 30 years. PSV gave the world players like (brazilian) Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Romario and Robben. Feyenoord gave us the likes of Ruud Gullit, Van Bronckhorst, Van Persie and Henrik Larsson. PSV were a late Milan goal away from the champions league final in 05. Feyenoord supplied half the world cup squad that went to the semi finals and have one of the best academies in europe. Ajax have consistently produced class players and coaches and won against the likes of Barcelona and away to United in recent years.

Comparing it with Romanian football, where Steau's european cup is often attributed to Liverpool getting English teams banned, is ignorant and lazy

inforfun

Peist2007 wrote: »

Ha ha good man Seinfeld

Would you have referred to the Portuguese league as mighty in, say, 2004? One team winning a European Cup does not make a league mighty. Add in Benfica's relatively recent success in the European Cup and arguably Portugal should be above Holland in the pecking order. But no one calls the Portuguese great or even once great.

I appreciate the great Ajax team of the 1970s etc but what else was there to make the Dutch league great? We dont eulogise about the greatness of Romanian football despite Steau Bucharest's European Cup success.

Most have been summed up already for me but

1970 - Feyenoord winning the European Cup 1 (now CL)
1971/72/73 - Ajax winning that one and Feyenoord making it to the semi's in one of those years
1974 - Feyenoord winning the UEFA cup ( now Europa league)
1978 - PSV winning that one

1974 - Holland finalist in the World cup, against the hosts
1978 - Holland finalist in the world cup, against the hosts who had to buy their spot in the final (Peru 6-0)

1976 - semi finals of the European championships for Holland

So yeah, i think the Dutch league was rather mighty in the 70's

Still some success in the 80's and 90's as late as 2002 when Feyenoord won the last European cup a dutch team probably will ever win

It is not that Dutch players aren't good anymore, problem is they don't hang around long enough to built a international successful Dutch club team anymore.

TV rights were sold for as much what the English club get each year. Dutch clubs have to do with that money for the next 10 years.

Dutch league nowadays is almost an U21 league.
Probably more entertaining in general than the EPL though

Ulysses Gaze

Peist2007 wrote: »

Ha ha good man Seinfeld

Would you have referred to the Portuguese league as mighty in, say, 2004? One team winning a European Cup does not make a league mighty. Add in Benfica's relatively recent success in the European Cup and arguably Portugal should be above Holland in the pecking order. But no one calls the Portuguese great or even once great.

I appreciate the great Ajax team of the 1970s etc but what else was there to make the Dutch league great? We dont eulogise about the greatness of Romanian football despite Steau Bucharest's European Cup success.

Feyenoord and PSV have also both won the European Cup. Feyenoord in the 1970's and PSV in 1988.

Their teams have also won UEFA Cups and the Cup Winners Cup.

8-10

Thread was originally 'the once mighty Ajax' but changed to make the thread about the league as a whole and not just the one team.

Title is not describing the league, just kept the wording so it was clear it was a name change and not a new thread

Peist2007

I stand corrected re Dutch success in the 1970s. The comparison with Steau was definitely stretching to make the point.