Only 286 homes for sale that are in the million € plus bracket

Minister

Only 286 homes for sale on DAFT.ie of 57,398 homes for sale. At that rate it the mansion tax is really going to bring in the money if that is representative of the total number of houses in the country.

Well done, Labour - a great capitulation.

antoobrien

Minister wrote: »

Only 286 homes for sale on DAFT.ie of 57,398 homes for sale. At that rate it the mansion tax is really going to bring in the money if that is representative of the total number of houses in the country.

Well done, Labour - a great capitulation.

That puts approx 3% of the housing stock (1.6m or so) on the market.

By extrapolation, there are approx 9,500 dwellings qualifying for the higher rate.

Minister

antoobrien wrote: »

That puts approx 3% of the housing stock (1.6m or so) on the market.

By extrapolation, there are approx 9,500 dwellings qualifying for the higher rate.

Interesting figure. Good stuff. And would you have figures as to what the expected tax take could be in relation to, say, a 1% increase in the USC for those on incomes in excess of €100,000pa? Thanks

antoobrien

Minister wrote: »

Interesting figure. Good stuff. And would you have figures as to what the expected tax take could be in relation to, say, a 1% increase in the USC for those on incomes in excess of €100,000pa? Thanks

Brendan Howlin was on RTE radio last night said that changing USC on incomes of over 100k would yield approx €70m. I can't remember if he said they looked at 1% or 3%, I think it was 3% because that was what everybody thought was coming.

While the internal optics of such a change might look good - in that the masses think theses people should be paying more, as if they don't already pay 45% of the income tax - it seems that it was viewed as biting the hand that feeds. This was echoed by one of the budget commentators that was on RTE (can't remember his name sorry), who said that he's lost projects from international companies due to the high tax rates (meaning high labour costs).

kennyb3

antoobrien wrote: »

That puts approx 3% of the housing stock (1.6m or so) on the market.

By extrapolation, there are approx 9,500 dwellings qualifying for the higher rate.

Was reported on RTE last night that the figure is expected to be about 2,500. Seemed low to me but thats what was reported

antoobrien

kennyb3 wrote: »

Was reported on RTE last night that the figure is expected to be about 2,500. Seemed low to me but thats what was reported

The discrepancy can be explained by the difference between asking price on daft and actual sale price.

I downloaded the sales information for 2012 from the property price register. There were 20248 sales up to November 30th.

Anyhow there were 172 sales recorded with values of higher than 1m- which is less than 0.9% of properties - which explains the 2,500 used.

The figures are broadly similar to those from 2011, so the figure isn't unreasonable.

Minister

antoobrien wrote: »

The discrepancy can be explained by the difference between asking price on daft and actual sale price.

I downloaded the sales information for 2012 from the property price register. There were 20248 sales up to November 30th.

Anyhow there were 172 sales recorded with values of higher than 1m- which is less than 0.9% of properties - which explains the 2,500 used.

The figures are broadly similar to those from 2011, so the figure isn't unreasonable.

Probably will not bring in much money so......Thanks lads, for info

frankosw

A stupid tax that will bring in a pittance.

antoobrien

frankosw wrote: »

A stupid tax that will bring in a pittance.

Property tax is hoped to bring in €500m in 2014 - hardly a pittance.

Idbatterim

A stupid tax that will bring in a pittance.

in the scheme of things and given the unbelievable amount of controversy it has caused and the serious administrative headache it will be, I would call it a pittance. Also the rates will be frozen for 3 years!!!

COYW

antoobrien wrote: »

Property tax is hoped to bring in €500m in 2014 - hardly a pittance.

I see you use the word 'hoped' there. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I think the million € plus tax will be the flop of all flops, personally. Still no word on who will be pricing homes.

Also, prices set on the likes of daft are asking prices, which have no reflection on the actual value of the property. There are newly built houses in my local area on sale for the last 18 months listed on daft.ie for €225,000. I know one person who bought one in July and paid €170,000. As part of that price they got a fitted kitchen, including appliances, and the tiling done in the kitchen and the bathrooms.

I have a horrible feeling that the government are going to use estate agents to evaluate home, which will be the joke of all jokes.

antoobrien

Minister wrote: »

Probably will not bring in much money so......Thanks lads, for info

Somebody from the indo was reading us here I think, they've put up an article with some figures on the website.

Value € | tax €
1.0m | 1,800
1.01m | 1,825
1.4m | 2,800
3.7m | 8,550
6.0m |14,300


Considering the banks are fairly flat on the way up, it goes up €25 by over 10k of value over 1m. D4 take cover

Godge

frankosw wrote: »

A stupid tax that will bring in a pittance.

A good left-wing tax that taxes wealth instead of income and only hits those rich enough to be in a position to own a house.

h2005

Its an acyclical tax which will bring in steadier revenues. We are moving in line with other developed economies by introducing it. Its not nice but makes sense to me.

antoobrien

COYW wrote: »

I see you use the word 'hoped' there. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I think the million € plus tax will be the flop of all flops, personally. Still no word on who will be pricing homes.

I used hope because that's what every government estimate is - an aspiration. Also "Still no word on who will be pricing homes" indicates that you haven't been listening very hard - the homeowner will.

COYW wrote: »

Also, prices set on the likes of daft are asking prices which has no reflection on the actual value of the property.

Ignore daft, take a look at the property price register. I can pretty much guarantee that revenue will take a glance at this to ensure that people aren't extracting the urine with low valuations - e.g. house in Clontarf sold for 995,000. If one of the neighbours decides to put in the 200k they bought it for 15 years ago (I have no idea how accurate that is) it'll raise questions.

COYW

antoobrien wrote: »

I used hope because that's what every government estimate is - an aspiration. Also "Still no word on who will be pricing homes" indicates that you haven't been listening very hard - the homeowner will.

I did hear that but I don't believe that self-evaluation is realistic. As you said, people will extract the urine left, right and centre with that. For example, there are no entries for my parents (couple in their 60's) area for the past three years. Presume they just pick a number so. The revenue will be burning the midnight oil with this one.

Scortho

COYW wrote: »

I did hear that but I don't believe that self-evaluation is realistic. As you said, people will extract the urine left, right and centre with that. For example, there are no entries for my parents (couple in their 60's) area for the past three years. Presume they just pick a number so. The revenue will be burning the midnight oil with this one.

Well Revenue have the stamp duty returns for houses sold in your parents area in 2006.
Most likely you will have to put down the size of your house.
By calculating the price paid in 2006, and deducting 60% off it, they'll be able to see whether they're taking the biscuit or not.
Very few places if any have fallen by 80-90%.

Cookie_Monster

Godge wrote: »

A good left-wing tax that taxes wealth instead of income and only hits those rich enough to be in a position to own a house.

a step in the right direction for sure, it's just a pity it's simply a tax instead of re-introducing rates and having it done by local councils rather than central government. Also really needs a proper system of valuation in place to work effectively.

Scortho

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

a step in the right direction for sure, it's just a pity it's simply a tax instead of re-introducing rates and having it done by local councils rather than central government. Also really needs a proper system of valuation in place to work effectively.

Unfortunately cookie as we've learnt people won't pay the local authorities.
With Revenue you have no choice but to pay and pay the correct amount.
If they can discover and successfully secure a judgement on the Schroder tax avoidance scheme, they can easily find out who owns what house.
Presumedly from the most recent stamp duty payment/capital gains payment for that property.
It definitely is a step in the right direction. Don't know why the mansion tax rate doesn't apply to total property values over 1 million as opposed to a single property value over 1 million.
One could own 50 apartments in town and be paying the tax at 0.18% while living in a house valued at 500000 yet he'll avoid it.