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Dogmatic vs. Canny Collar vs. Halti
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06-12-2012 3:21pm#1One of my setters persistently pulls on the lead despite numerous attempts to train him. I've done the walk/stop, walk/turn-around techniques plus some others. I've also tried various harnesses with limited success.
I've been putting off a head collar as a last resort because I don't like the idea of them, but I think I need to give one a go. I have some questions for those of you who've used them.
1) What are the differences between the Dogmatic, the Canny collar and the Halti in terms of how they connect to the dog and prevent him from pulling?
2) Do any of them require a double ended lead? I have 2 dogs and usually hold a lead in each hand, and I find a double ended lead difficult to control properly.
3) Do any of them cause any pain to the dog? Pain is a big no for me.
4) Some of them look like they have a side attachment, so does it matter which side of me the dog is on? Henry walks on my right, while the convention is for dogs to walk on the left.
5) Do any of them actually help train the dog not to pull or will I end up having to use one forever? :rolleyes:
I'm leaning towards a Dogmatic because it's received glowing praise on here, but I'm open to any and all opinions!
Thanks a mil
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Thanks for all the responses! I think I'm going to give the Dogmatic a go and see how it works out. I have a bulging disc in my back due to an injury earlier this year and I really have to sort out the pulling problem before I do more damage. I'm also on the waiting list for a "no more pulling" workshop after Christmas.I've used the Halti and the dogmatic. I much prefer the front connection harnesses. I think the dogs find it more comfortable and I feel I have more control because it's much harder to slip out of. Plus, I don't like the idea of controlling the dog by the face. I know it does no harm, but I prefer the chest control, I feel it's less stress on the neck should the dog try to keep pulling.
I've tried 2 different front connection harnesses but they weren't even a tiny bit effective. I found it difficult to control the double ended lead whilst holding the other dog's lead and Henry would just end up galloping along sideways. Even when I walked him on his own with it and could control it properly he still pulled. I have had some limited success with the Sporn no pull harness but he still pulls enough to make walking stressful.
In addition to making my back problem worse, it's unfair on my other dog who is either getting pulled all over the place or having to stop or turn around every 5 seconds in my efforts to train Henry.Here's what he looks like
Thanks for posting the photo. It's good to see that they fit a dog with a tapered snout!Same one here for walking my retriever, be lost without it. What size dog do you have, I have a second one brand new but to big for my lady.
He's an English setter and on the small side so I imagine if it's too big for your dog it'll be too big for mine. I haven't measured him yet but according to the website he should be a size 3 or 3L.0 -
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I know what you mean about some dogs looking miserable. I give Henry plenty of length on the lead and he can sniff away and seems happy out. Like Whispered, I'm not crazy about using it but its the only thing that's worked for the little monster. If you do decide to get one I'd recommend the Dogmatic. The Haltis look a lot more uncomfortable and seem to ride up over the eyes of any dog I've seen with one. 0
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If you had tried the Dogmatic you would realise that it does not ride up into the dogs eyes. You also have full control of the dog. I have used them on lots of dogs and none of them minded wearing them. It also meant I could walk several large male dogs at once.
There was no fear of the dog escaping. You simply can't compare a cheap nylon halti to the more comfortable Dogmatic.
You would not need to yank a dog and unfortunately any person who thinks this is acceptable will yank or pull the dog around no matter what the dog is wearing.
Yes it can, I have seen it happen several times. You have full control of the dogs head. If the dog decides to wiggle and buck it can potentially hurt itself.
There is no doubt they work for some dogs, maybe even the majority, but in my opinion, all things considered, I'd usually favour the harness. I used to recommend the head collars myself, but once I started using the harness I changed my view somewhat.
Now I also don't like the idea of walking a dog from a collar full stop, even a flat padded collar. So maybe you're trying to convert the impossible
You're right, people would yank on a lead if they is the way they do it, but with the head collar the potential for discomfort is higher. If you were to be pulled somewhere, would you prefer to be pulled by the head or the chest?Well I walked some large working gundog breeds on them and I can assure you there was no bucking or jumping. These were extremely fit entire males. You seen breeds bucking and jumping but they were most likely not wearing the Dogmatic.
For what its worth I gave away the front connection harness as it was useless and rubbed the dogs skin.
If you get the correct size it does not ride up on the dogs face even those with short muzzles.
You cannot say that dogs don't buck or jump around on the head collars, even the dogmatic, which is after all just another head collar. They do. I find the harnesses much less aversive, dogs accept them much more readily (essential when you're working with multiple dogs for a short period of time) There is no worry about neck injuries and there is no pull on the head or neck at all. Here is a good article actually about all different types of equipment.Hailed as a positive training tool when it first arrived on the scene in the mid 1990s, the head halter has stirred much discussion among trainers. This tool works like a halter on a horse; it controls the dog’s head, and where the head goes, the body must follow. Some halter proponents suggest that it also mimics the sensation of a mother dog carrying her puppy by the scruff, and that this function calms the dog wearing the halter. I’m not convinced, and I haven’t seen any studies to support this hypothesis.
To the human perception, the head halter appears much more positive than a chain, prong, or shock collar around a dog’s neck. To a significant number of dogs, however, the halter seems to be at least mildly (and in many cases greatly) aversive. Most dogs need to be desensitized to a head halter prior to actual use. If you put it on without a gradual introduction and lots of association with a reinforcer (treats!) you’re likely to get lots of resistance from the dog - pawing and clawing at the halter, bucking against the leash, and attempts to rub it off. Many dogs, even when they’ve accepted it, will still try to rub it off if given the opportunity. In addition, the head halter tends to suppress behavior and subdue the wearer. People often mistake “subdued” for “calm.” If your dog’s whole personality changes - his tail droops, his eyes lose their sparkle - then you’re looking at a subdued dog, not a calm one. There may be times when that’s useful, but a positive training program generally avoids behavior suppression and encourages the dog to offer behaviors that can be reinforced. There are a number of different models of head halter. Each new design that comes on the scene purports to be more easily accepted by the dog. That tells you something!
The bottom line of the article is that it is our responsibility to choose the equipment that suits our dogs. I think with any piece of equipment, it's important that owners look at their own dog and circumstances and choose accordingly. There is no point telling people they are wrong for not liking head collars. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how many of your friends use them, or how many dogs you can walk at once, they just don't work for every dog. There is no piece of kit that does.Can we not just agree to disagree? It's ridiculous to suggest that a product works for all dogs, 100% of the time. That's why I take your point that the front-connection harness chafed your dog, although that hasn't been the case with any of the dogs I've seen being walked with one, including Dobermanns, Bull Terriers, Labradors, Papillons, and Japanese Spitz.
Bottom line here is that I have seen head collars NOT to work well, they have drawbacks and they don't suit every dog. I don't like them. And whether I invest in a Dogmatic or not, they don't suit my dog, whatever you might say.
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