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Its about Time
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Not too sure what my max HR is, must do a check on that. Only started to monitor it since an exchange with KC recently.
I'd say it's lower than yours, I've not got many heart beats left been old n'all
Enjoying my training lately, I'd like a good 5k soon, might not make Sat nights Bohermeen race due to both girls playing GAA in Foxrock.
Am enjoying the shorter races right now. My Marathon training will be designed to keep these sort of sessions going.0 -
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RunningKing wrote: »Not too sure what my max HR is, must do a check on that. Only started to monitor it since an exchange with KC recently.
I'd say it's lower than yours, I've not got many heart beats left been old n'all
Enjoying my training lately, I'd like a good 5k soon, might not make Sat nights Bohermeen race due to both girls playing GAA in Foxrock.
Am enjoying the shorter races right now. My Marathon training will be designed to keep these sort of sessions going.
FYI
VO2 max reps(roughly 5k pace), not only tend to raise maximum oxygen consumption, but they elevate fuel burning rate of sugar (glucose and glycogen) and raise anaerobic capacity. The result is reduced ability to hold a good race-pace after about 90 minutes of running. People who do too many VO2 max reps slow down drastically in the last 10-15km of a marathon race. 5k pace session do have their place in training but during a marathon plan i would not recommend it0 -
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RunningKing wrote: »Cheers CM, very interesting. as usual you are a walking repository!
Thats why I was interested! I wouldn't see your session today as V02 as it was 10km pace which is giving a slightly different stimulous.
I think there is a place for these (10km/5km reps) in a plan, but not in the second half, more in the earlier stages. This is a flaw in P&D. No need for the v02 sessions in the last 6 weeks. More PMP or HMP miles are required here rather than reps at 5km pace at that stage.0 -
career_move wrote: »
The Boards "Oracle" or what?;)
Very interesting though. On the other end of the scale,can you explain how I ,one who has never done a speed session/interval session in his life, is now achieving faster times over the shorter distances by just doing more miles? Is this down purely to more miles in the legs equal stronger legs, or just fitter aerobically or both? What kind of % improvement should I expect by doing say a regular weekly speed session?(I know this might be the impossible question to answer) What do you think RK given the improvements you have felt yourself and your knowledge of my own times??
There's a series of 2 mile races coming up now soon at the club and I was planning on using those as my regular session but if they were likely to interfere with marathon training I might think twice.0 -
On the other end of the scale,can you explain how I ,one who has never done a speed session/interval session in his life, is now achieving faster times over the shorter distances by just doing more miles? Is this down purely to more miles in the legs equal stronger legs, or just fitter aerobically or both? What kind of % improvement should I expect by doing say a regular weekly speed session?(I know this might be the impossible question to answer)
I guess if you take the 2012 class from last year. After the marathon, lots acheived good PBs in the shorter distances without doing any speed work in HH1 program. I'm no expert but guessing it due to the building up and an improvement of your aerobic capacity in general from the longer distance training. In effect, you are just getting fitter!
In regard to percentages, I'd say never expect anything. That way everything is a bonus!
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The Boards "Oracle" or what?;)
Very interesting though. On the other end of the scale,can you explain how I ,one who has never done a speed session/interval session in his life, is now achieving faster times over the shorter distances by just doing more miles? Is this down purely to more miles in the legs equal stronger legs, or just fitter aerobically or both? What kind of % improvement should I expect by doing say a regular weekly speed session?(I know this might be the impossible question to answer) What do you think RK given the improvements you have felt yourself and your knowledge of my own times??
There's a series of 2 mile races coming up now soon at the club and I was planning on using those as my regular session but if they were likely to interfere with marathon training I might think twice.
Well, from what I have observed you do plenty of races, which are speed session in themselves and races will bring you on a lot.
Added miles will help in terms of strength and aerobic capacity and the fact that you do lots of your runs at tempo pace ( a different type of speed session) means that you have all the ingredients for improvement.
The only thing I would suggest is that there is no need to run your easy runs so fast as this might be counterproductive, and don't race 2 days in a row 0 -
Well, from what I have observed you do plenty of races, which are speed session in themselves and races will bring you on a lot.
Added miles will help in terms of strength and aerobic capacity and the fact that you do lots of your runs at tempo pace ( a different type of speed session) means that you have all the ingredients for improvement.
The only thing I would suggest is that there is no need to run your easy runs so fast as this might be counterproductive, and don't race 2 days in a row
Cheers everybody and at the risk of highjacking A's thread..this is what is confusing me at the moment. MacMillan puts my easy pace based on recent 10k race (46:42) at 8:19 - 9:20. My easy runs are in this range. Tempo runs are 7:30 - 7:46 which I have done very few of. My faster runs are more in the steady state range of 7:48 - 8:08.0 -
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Cheers everybody and at the risk of highjacking A's thread..this is what is confusing me at the moment. MacMillan puts my easy pace based on recent 10k race (46:42) at 8:19 - 9:20. My easy runs are in this range. Tempo runs are 7:30 - 7:46 which I have done very few of. My faster runs are more in the steady state range of 7:48 - 8:08.
I would say don't try to push the the sharp end of the easy pace all the time. Do plenty of runs in the 9+min/mile range.
I'd do most of my easy stuff in the 8-8:30 range myself.
Also perhaps you are picking your paces off your strongest PB? What does McMillan suggest based on your HM PB and marathon goal? I doubt he is telling to do your easy runs faster than PMP. I guess what I am saying I that it is possible to have a 'skewed PB' over a shorter distance, but in order to build up to a point where you can run an equivalent time over a longer distance (HM, Marathon) you might need to build a better aerobic base (run more, run slower).
I noticed early in the year that you were doing a lot of easy runs in and around your Half Marathon pace, which is essentially a tempo run. It is probably no coincidence you were getting injured a lot at that time.
So in conclusion: easy runs easier and hard runs harder 0 -
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Apologies but I was assuming that people know that anything I would post is always just my own opinion.
It should have read. In my opinion, this is a flaw of P&D.
I would state though that I'm not the only one who would be of this opinion around here. That said, the adjusted P&D schedule for me worked wonders but I do think it has too much V02 so close a marathon.
Say what you really feel.... It's all rubbish 0 -
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Apologies but I was assuming that people know that anything I would post is always just my own opinion.
It should have read. In my opinion, this is a flaw of P&D.
I would state though that I'm not the only one who would be of this opinion around here. That said, the adjusted P&D schedule for me worked wonders but I do think it has too much V02 so close a marathon.
Fair enough and I understand where you are coming from although it could have been worded better as there was no evidence to back up your claims. If I was searching the forum for information about P&D I might have got the impression from your post that it wasn't a great plan to follow because it has 'flaws' when the opposite is true but then again a more thorough search will show up a lot more positive than negative experiences people have had with P&D so maybe I'll just stop rambling on now and let RK get back to logging his training 0 -
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Thursday 6th June: 8.27 miles @ 7:54 - Felt tired during this. No dog with me - run from house to end of Chesterfield and back.
Friday 7th June: 3.35 miles @ 7:47 - Easy run to get the dog out, went up to Porterstown and noticed MSB had a track painted on the grass. Done some loops of the park 1st then done 2 *400's (76/77) done them nearly all out!! No reason for it only the track was there!
Watched the dire effort of a match (R.Keane vrs 11 Amatuers) with a few cans of the balck stuff.....nice.
Sat 8th:
Wasn't too sure what Sat would bring as my 2 girls had GAA matches in Foxrock planned, the older ones game would mean that I'd miss Bohermeen, which was killing me as I'd have loved to do it.
Anyway - I woke up early at 7:30am on Sat, and decided to get up and do a park run in Malahide.
Knew it wouldn't be a great effort, given the mileage in the last week - but still wanted to see how the legs worked while fatigued.
Set off and parked in the furtherest car park away - went on a 1.17m warm up to the course.
Set off fairly fast as there was a good crowd and pace in the 1st few hundred meters was fierce. Had no set plan as it was a late decision to run it, the only thing I wanted to do was dip under 19 mins as that would be a Park Run PB, (my 5k PB is 18:39, but on this course its 19:00).
1st mile was a fast affair and tried not look at the watch, but seen 5:41 for the 1st mile (far too fast) - settled back down but felt the lactic pilling on after 1 mile!
During mile 2 there was a group of 5 - I lad who cut every corner there was! - yet I was boxed in. Mile 2 was a slow 6:05 .
At this stage I was thinking of how easy it felt during the 5 mile race to run 2 5:59 miles - yet 1 5:41 mile throws everything out of kilter.
At the start of mile 3 I went the wrong way - despite this been my 5th time to do Park Run in Malahide, I took a wrong turn and the shouts of the people around me brought me back. Not sure what I lost, maybe 5-10 seconds here??? It hurt me more mentally than physically I think.
At the start of mile 3 there is a longish trail period, and normally I struggle here, but when I got to it I pushed on, passing 3 of our group (that included Gerry Carr, neighbour & Irish Runner Interviewee this month), I kept going but when I hit about 800m from home, I felt like getting sick - not from effort, more so from having too much porridge too late!!! So much for late decisions!.
Mile 3 was 6.08.
At that stage I noticed the front runners turning right near the home straight, so I knew I was near done - that gave me confidence to push on. There were 2 lads in front of me who I wanted to catch, and as I got closer to the finish line, they came closer to me.
It took all my concentration to pass them on the home straight, at this stage I hadn't looked at the watch in a while, so I thought I was over 19m, but as I passed the line I noticed 18:31 on the Garmin. (5:39 for the last 0.1)
What........that cant be right, thats a PB? - I felt crap out there, but yep - the official time has me for 18:31 and 10th place. Delighted with that as it was an 8 second PB and 29 seconds faster than I've ran that course before.
Gerry finished in 18:40 (he's 55 in 3 weeks!!!)
Done a good warm down with Gerry, about 2.6 miles back to the car.
When I got home, I heard that both matches were cancelled - so I could have done bohermeen afterall!!
So went out again with the dog and done 7.19 miles @ 8.33 pace.
The days total was 14:07 miles - delighted with that as I know had I of done bohermeen, I wouldn't have done that much mileage.
Happy with an unexpected PB and 14 miles today!!
Based on that run, I reckon with the right prep I've an 18:10 5k in me - but mightn't scratch that itch for a while as I need to maintain the HM training.
"The main thing is keeping the main thing the main thing"0 -
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RunningKing wrote: »In fairness, I wasn't 100% happy with the run , had I of ran 18:10 then, yeah, great.
Was more of an experiment today to see how I ran on tired legs, as a lot of people on here do.
Well nobody is going to be fully happy when they get lost during a race. But to still do a PB is the impressive part. 0
;) 
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