Its about Time

drquirky

What time are you two running? I may join for 10-12 then push on if thats ok?

RunningKing wrote: »

Cheers TRR.

I think I'm indecisive - not too sure though.......
Plan is attached.

My main 'gripe' is that I feel I've lost some speed endurance in the last 6 weeks.
While doing the 10k/HM plan - I was doing great sessions and nice tempos.
Now - I'm finding it difficult to hold a 20min tempo.

The Long runs are going well - I had 2 MLR this week (1x9m / 1x12m) - theres a few weeks like that in the plan.

My other gripe is that I dont think I'll manage PMP during long runs, so may do specific PMP miles midweek during a MLR.

I'm doing a long run with CL on Saturday in PP - so I'll talk to her about her plan - we're about similar levels based on past races.
I heard her coach is pretty good.........

Let me know what you think.

RunningKing

drquirky wrote: »

What time are you two running? I may join for 10-12 then push on if thats ok?

I'm meeting them (CL & Meno) at 9ish at farmleigh Gate (Whites Gate).

RunningKing

Gavlor wrote: »

Why won't you manage pmp during long runs?? I don't get that mentality

I can manage during MLR's - but at this stage, by the end of my weekend longer runs, I just cant find the push to put in PMP miles. Never could.

But remember, I'm old. :pac:

statss

RunningKing wrote: »

I can manage during MLR's - but at this stage, by the end of my weekend longer runs, I just cant find the push to put in PMP miles. Never could.

But remember, I'm old. :pac:

this is exactly where a club would / should benefit you

RunningKing

statss wrote: »

this is exactly where a club would / should benefit you

bang on - thinking the same thing earlier.

Gavlor

RunningKing wrote: »

I can manage during MLR's - but at this stage, by the end of my weekend longer runs, I just cant find the push to put in PMP miles. Never could.

But remember, I'm old. :pac:

Why not do them in the earlier part of the run?

pconn062

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll probably see you on saturday too. You can get some expert advice

If you are worried about speed endurance then don't go breaking up tempo runs, especially something as short as 4m. Just do it a bit slower if you need but get it done!!

+1

The way I approach tempo runs is to build them up slowly. Start with 2x10 mins, 15 mins, 20 mins, 2x15 mins, 2x20 mins, 30 mins, 40 mins etc. Only take 2 mins max recovery between the different sections. For a marathon you can keep going the whole way up to 60 mins if you want, just slow down the pace to what is required to get it done. Jack Daniels has a chart in his book that gives you the paces you should try and hit for the different lengths of time. If you want, PM your vdot and I'll send you on your paces if you don't have the book.

menoscemo

drquirky wrote: »

What time are you two running? I may join for 10-12 then push on if thats ok?

Myself and CL will be taking off from Papal Cross car park, just before 9 and then bumping into RK en route.

ThePiedPiper

On doing Pmp miles during long runs, I think it very important that you should be able to do some.. I agree that if you get to 17 odd miles, speeding up is nigh on impossible, but why not try increasing gently from about 12 miles in, get maybe 4 mp miles, then jog it in at easy pace? Choose your route wisely, if it takes slight downhill gradient to up the pace, so be it

RunningKing

thanks PConn - I have the Daniels paces for the different distances.

I think its a case of do I stay a slave to the plan or develop a plan to do as you suggest.
My reasoning today for breaking it up today, was to approach it differently and get a level of tempo speed into the legs, so maybe the next one will go better & longer - just as you suggest!

RunningKing

RunForestRun wrote: »

On doing Pmp miles during long runs, I think it very important that you should be able to do some.. I agree that if you get to 17 odd miles, speeding up is nigh on impossible, but why not try increasing gently from about 12 miles in, get maybe 4 mp miles, then jog it in at easy pace? Choose your route wisely, if it takes slight downhill gradient to up the pace, so be it

Cheers RFR - what you suggest I actually done last week - mile 8-12 (out of 15) was at ~6:45 pace, but I couldn't do any more.

Maybe its a case of building it slowly......

drquirky

menoscemo wrote: »

Myself and CL will be taking off from Papal Cross car park, just before 9 and then bumping into RK en route.

Cool I'll meet you there....

RunningKing

Thanks for all the advice guys - the haze is clearing - Coach TRR is on the case - if all else fails, I'll actually listen to Meno.

menoscemo

RunningKing wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice guys - the haze is clearing - Coach TRR is on the case - if all else fails, I'll actually listen to Meno.

I told you before you'd be better off just following my graduate plan :pac:
Don't tell me TRR is adding another one to his stable? It's becoming like a wrestling clique, who'll be the next one to stab his mate in the back and reveal the TRR t-shirt under his vest?

dazza21ie

menoscemo wrote: »

I told you before you'd be better off just following my graduate plan :pac:
Don't tell me TRR is adding another one to his stable? It's becoming like a wrestling clique, who'll be the next one to stab his mate in the back and reveal the TRR t-shirt under her vest?

Big Logger :D:D

menoscemo

dazza21ie wrote: »

Big Logger :D:D

That would be the biggest shock since Mike Tyson ripped off his referee vest at WM to reveal a Stone Cold shirt

TRR

menoscemo wrote: »

I told you before you'd be better off just following my graduate plan :pac:
Don't tell me TRR is adding another one to his stable? It's becoming like a wrestling clique, who'll be the next one to stab his mate in the back and reveal the TRR t-shirt under his vest?

you're only jealous that I don't give a flying fcuk about your running endeavors

menoscemo

TRR wrote: »

you're only jealous that I don't give a flying fcuk about your running endeavors

You seem to be awful inquisitive about my PBs at times. Pity none of your protegés can get anywhere near them

TRR

menoscemo wrote: »

You seem to be awful inquisitive about my PBs at times. Pity none of your protegés can get anywhere near them

Yes they are targets all right. It's all about the race to sub 3 this year though. The main thing is that the main thing is the main thing. With a bit of luck you'll be targeting CLs sub 3 DCM time in London next year

digger2d2

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll probably see you on saturday too.

Cue a sudden runningking injury :-)

RunningKing

Friday 16th: Nice 5:35m recovery at 8:26 pace with the dog - also threw in some strides (6x100) near the end.

Sat 17th: 18:18m @ 7:52 pace

Nice run with CL, Meno & DrQ. They were doing 20+.

Chose a route that had a mix of hills (up&down) and also suited our distances as CL can only operate with clear guidance

DrQ set off to do some Squires surges later in the run (http://running.competitor.com/2013/08/training/workout-of-the-week-squires-long-run_12784)

Some observations from today:
* Great running with a group - really makes the miles tick by.
* Taking on water at multiple locations today was great (note to self)
* Meno can find multiple ways & opportunities to chastise encourage debate on my plan.
* The minute they left me - they both went to pot - shows my influence on them.
* Nice to see so many Boardsies out. (Statts does indeed have nice hair & Digger was wearing his "Look at Me" top.

Interesting splits from today.
1st 9 miles in 1:10:58 (7:53 pace / Ave HR 145)
2nd 9 miles in 1:10:52 (7:52 pace/ Ave HR 155)

Nice to keep the miles fairly even through out, being in a group no doubt contributed to this.

wtd: 53.44 miles.

menoscemo

I see TRR is doing a few miles at your recovery pace tomorrow Maybe an idea to join him?

Thanks for the run today, I enjoyed it right up until we left you.

RunningKing

Sunday 18th: 4.57m @ 8:48/mile (see that Meno!!)

Nice easy lazy run with the dog in the PP. Had bought a new pair of runners (NB 860 v3) in AK (Ashtown) earlier in the week, so wanted to try them out on a recovery run.

I was alternating NB (1260) & Lunar Eclipse - the NB have an 8mm drop, but as I've heel spurs (I think) I was wondering if these 8mm were contributing to that? I bought a similar pair but with a traditional 12mm drop. They feel a little chunky, but no issues today on the run. Will wear them this week on a MLR to better gauge how they are.

It was funny, in the shop my choice came down to the NB or a pinkish pair of Wave Inspires that I've slagged a young Corkonian for wearing!

Week to date miles are 58.01 miles - my largest week ever.
Delighted with how I'm feeling too as my week has also been early starts and late nights due to an MBA project due this week.

Last week (week 1 P&D) I was feeling really fatigued, this week is a different story - despite all the stuff on my log, I'm still following P&D - albeit an adapted version with a lot TRR's advice thrown in.

As this week is a race week, I'll be using it as a recovery week and not doing the P&D workouts as per week 9 on the P&D 12/70 schedule.

With regard to race week, I'm going to hope for a sub 65m display - I know in a standalone race with speed training, (or a longer aerobic base) I could knock out a 62.5x - but being realistic to where I am right now, I would be very happy with a sub 65 (nearly 7 min PB) in a year. If I get over 65 well then, that's where I am!

Monday will be an MLR as I've visitors over on Tues/wed this week (work related).

Dilbert75

It baffles me how you can fit in work, family, that training plan and an MBA. Do you have an old English police callbox at home somewhere?

RunningKing

Dilbert75 wrote: »

It baffles me how you can fit in work, family, that training plan and an MBA. Do you have an old English police callbox at home somewhere?

If I do bad in races - I have something to blame :pac:

RedRunner

Great week for you RK! especially with the MBA work too. BTW do you have a walk in wardrobe full of running shoes? I've lost count of the different types you have at this stage:D;)

RunningKing

RedRunner wrote: »

Great week for you RK! especially with the MBA work too. BTW do you have a walk in wardrobe full of running shoes? I've lost count of the different types you have at this stage:D;)

My wife would love that comment! She's said similar

claralara

RunningKing wrote: »

Friday 16th: Nice 5:35m recovery at 8:26 pace with the dog - also threw in some strides (6x100) near the end.

Sat 17th: 18:18m @ 7:52 pace

Nice run with CL, Meno & DrQ. They were doing 20+.

Chose a route that had a mix of hills (up&down) and also suited our distances as CL can only operate with clear guidance

DrQ set off to do some Squires surges later in the run (http://running.competitor.com/2013/08/training/workout-of-the-week-squires-long-run_12784)

Some observations from today:
* Great running with a group - really makes the miles tick by.
* Taking on water at multiple locations today was great (note to self)
* Meno can find multiple ways & opportunities to chastise encourage debate on my plan.
* The minute they left me - they both went to pot - shows my influence on them.
* Nice to see so many Boardsies out. (Statts does indeed have nice hair & Digger was wearing his "Look at Me" top.
Interesting splits from today.
1st 9 miles in 1:10:58 (7:53 pace / Ave HR 145)
2nd 9 miles in 1:10:52 (7:52 pace/ Ave HR 155)

Nice to keep the miles fairly even through out, being in a group no doubt contributed to this.

wtd: 53.44 miles.

Quote of the run for me: Meno-"You're gonna injure yourself. See all these guys not doing what I do...all injured! Look at me, I'm not injured. Well, except for the fact that i am"....
Haha. Wtf ??

I just got a stitch from talking ****e. Once i stopped, i managed to knock out a 7 minute mile to finish so you lot of crocks can take a hike!!

digger2d2

RunningKing wrote: »

but as I've heel spurs (I think) .

Classic self-diagnosing

digger2d2

claralara wrote: »

Quote of the run for me: Meno-"You're gonna injure yourself. See all these guys not doing what I do...all injured! Look at me, I'm not injured. Well, except for the fact that i am"....
Haha. Wtf ??

Did he really say that?

@ meno, dude, you really are one of a kind!