Its about Time

Cleanman

statss wrote: »

that was defo meant as a compliment! more like "i'll be happy out if I am running at your speed when I'm that age....however far into the distance that may be :pac:

PM me...I leave you borrow my shovel...looks like you need it;)

Dilbert75

Cleanman wrote: »

PM me...I leave you borrow my shovel...looks like you need it;)

The evidence would suggest not...

MisterDrak

RunningKing wrote: »

Saturday 7th Sept: 20m LSR.

At mile 13 I tried a gel - my normal gel is GU but I tried a Kinetica gel today - didn't need water with it - Cola flavour - and it went down very well. Must stop off in Elevery's for more during the week.

Yep, Same Gel brand, and flavor, bought in same Shop, taken at same mile yesterday !

Are you planning a 22m 3 weeks out ?

RunningKing

MisterDrak wrote: »

Yep, Same Gel brand, and flavor, bought in same Shop, taken at same mile yesterday !

Are you planning a 22m 3 weeks out ?

Not too sure whats on the plan - no doubt it'll be higher than 20m, but as I'll be just back from US that weekend, I'll be more than likely doing it on the Monday (7th Oct)

RunningKing

Physio this morning - went to Mark Kenneally - only been to him 3 times ever - each sept before DCM - all with aches on my left side (ITB / Abductor / Calf) - a fact that he pointed out to me as I entered.

Great to go to a guy who knows marathons and knows running - he's lining up on the GNR on Sunday with Mo, Bekele & Gebrselassie.

Anyway - back to me.

No tear in the calf - just some tightness that could be down to a combination of factors - increased mileage / lack of 'proper' stretching (as opposed to lack of stretching) / moving from 12mm shoes to 8mm shoes (this can cause a gradual tightness) / linked to the heel spur complaint I had earlier in the year.

So after he butchered massaged my calf - he gave me some stretches and strength work to do.
All clear to run on it, but have to go back in 10 days to see if the strength work is progressing - that'll tell him if its just muscular or neurological.

Interestingly he also said that for muscle strains - ice is the best bet. Heat for muscle spasms - ice for soft muscle tissue.
They both work on different blood vessels apparently.....he was loosing me at that stage.

Went for a recovery run after - but was in a bit of a hurry - (it never works out when you have to do a recovery run in a hurry).............

so just left it after 2.5 miles - main aim was to get the blood flowing to the calf.

Runchick

Interesting stuff. I moved from 12mm to 8mm heels recently too and have been experiencing very tight calves after the longer runs...hadn't thought of the shoes...a bit more stretching probably wouldn't hurt either mind you

blockic

That's the job eyeballs out on Saturday now. Did you see there is a 1:25 pacer....could come in handy for you...

RunningKing

blockic wrote: »

Did you see there is a 1:25 pacer....could come in handy for you...

yep & yep. No excuses!!

RunningKing

Tuesday 10th: No running day.

Spent about 40 mins stretching, doing core work and doing calf lifts as per physio instruction (while watching the gick that was Traps last match)

Instructions as follows (for reference):

On a stair - heels off the stair.

(1) Calf raise - Slow with weight. - starting position with heel low.
2 motions up, 2 motions down set of 20 x 3
Progress to adding weight to a back back etc as you progress.

(2) Calf raise - fast. - Starting position on stair, with heel as low as you can have it.
1 quick motion upward - 3 slow motions down. sets of 5 x 4

I really feel the raises in (1) causing my calfs to burn by the 3rd set.
Need to incorporate these into my training routine full time.

Legs feel great after them.

Wednesday 11th Sept: 8m at 7:45 in PP with the dog.
Felt very strong today - had to keep focused on pace and make sure it was slow (having the dog helps keep it slow)

In the last 2 miles I threw in 3 x HMP bursts of about 500m - just to dial in the pace.

another 35 mins of core, stretching and calf raises.

RunningKing

Saturday 14th - Athlone Flatline Half Marathon -

Pre-race:
Felt very confident going into this on the back of my 10 miler. So confident, that I was questioning if I should go ahead of the 1:25 pacers today, as my ave time for the 10 miler was 6:23/mile.
No demons the night before, ate & hydrated well over the 2 days.
Was super confident of 1:25.

Race:
Met a couple of Boardsies before the race. hard to believe there was so many on the list that I didn't meet.
Lined up behind the 1:25 pacers and we were off.
Never ran with pacers before, so it was all new to me - the congestion in the pack was amazing - tripping and 'sorry's ' all over the place. I can only imagine what the larger groups were like.

1st 3 miles largel uneventful - didn't really look at the watch, being with the pacers.
Mile 1-3: 6.24 / 6.25 / 6.25

At mile 4 I started to feel fatigue in the legs - wtf was going on I thought - 4 miles and I'm tired? after running about 15 miles all week and I was tired after 4 miles?
Took a gel at mile 5 to try to get a bit of energy.
Kept with the group, but was working hard - no doubt the prescribed Calf Raises were coming back to haunt me - maybe I should have dialed back on them in the 2 days before the race.
Miles 4-6 were tough and had to keep working hard - much harder than the 10 miler were my pace was quicker at this stage.

Mile 4-6: 6:21 / 6:28 / 6:25

At mile 7 I was really struggling - the demons were in my head and I fought tooth and nail to get rid of them. Still maintained touch with the group.

Mile 7: 6:31

Mile 8&9 were a bit of a let down for me - I had major demons and nearly stopped plenty of times, only for a voice to urge me to keep going - stopping would be weak and I'd never live it down forgive myself - the pacing group were about 20-30 secs ahead of me at this stage, so I was running on my own.

Mile 8&9: 6:40 / 6:50

I took on water and gave myself a good talking to and got back on the horse at mile 10 - legs were coming back to me - 2nd wind was kicking in.

I reckoned if I could keep it gently increasing I could make up most of the time before the end.

Mile 10: 6:36

It was somewhere around here that the sniper in the grass fired off a round and caught me in the rib cage - major stitch in the side. Couldn't believe it, just when I was starting to feel good again.
I had ran with Statss last week and recall him telling me some things he did when he got a stitch, so I tried all them to no avail - couldn't shake the bugger - at this stage, the pacers were about 1min ahead.

Mile 11&12: 6:46 / 6:56

Coming into mile 12, I was urging myself to walk as the pain in my side was becoming unbearable, I didn't walk but had to slow my pace considerably.
Was becoming disillusioned at this stage - really wanted to walk and did not give a flying f*** about the race.
Kept going though and mile 13 passed in a pedestrian 7:09.

The final 0.1 of the race - I had no kick, just sauntered cross the line (6:56).

Final time was 1:27:19 and 89th place

Went on a nice and 'painful' warm down afterwards - felt better for it.

Post race analysis:

It was a 5 minute PB for me, but it was over 2 mins outside my goal time.
I really cannot understand where the leg fatigue was coming from, maybe the calf raises, maybe too much going on with MBA & work etc - but these are just excuses.

In the end, I'm delighted to have ran a HM in 1:27 - delighted actually. Given how I felt.
I know that on a different day I'd have got 1:25 (but I didn't today).

The time puts a sub 3 attempt firmly in focus.
Do I lack endurance? Have I no HTFU? Should I go for 3:05ish?

I'm not going to over-analyse the race - DrQ gave me a good talking too after the race :P - we'll see how the next few weeks go.

For now, I'm going to celebrate a 5 minute PB - a Spurs win and my U13's getting a great win in Skerries (I just made the start by the skin of my teeth).

Nice meeting the Boardsies who I did meet today - some new faces and some familiar faces.

Running - its a funny old game..............

statss

Good report buddy. As I said last week I think you'll know deep down yourself what to go for for DCM. You own instinct is best. Looks like I need to brush up on my stitch removing advice, haha.

menoscemo

Fair play A for gutting it out. Pictures prove you were certainly in pain

My 2c: you have to decide NOW what your goal MP is and train accordingly, no point training for a time you won't go for as it would actually be counterproductive. The important thing (I think) is to get the body as used to and efficient as possible at running MP. The Last 2 marathon cycles I had I was 'going' for sub 3 but both times I ran a HM 6-8 weeks put (both 1:26:3x) and at at that point I readjusted my target.
Am i saying you should readjust your target? Probably....honestly I think sub 3 is a stretch for you and an attempt at that could see you have a total disaster. Maybe I am wrong and maybe unforeseen circumstances slowed you down today (however stitches etc tend to come when you are pushing the body to it's limits); but even running a 1:24:XX half would be 'tight' for sub 3 and would require well above average endurance.

What do you think?

blockic

RunningKing wrote: »

In the end, I'm delighted to have ran a HM in 1:27 - delighted actually.

For now, I'm going to celebrate a 5 minute PB

Running - its a funny old game..............

And so you should be delighted and celebrate it. 5 min PB...it's not every day that you are going to get PBs...especially at your age! :P

Head down next few weeks now. Target doesn't need to be decided until race week. Plenty time.

Like that last quote

RunningKing

menoscemo wrote: »

Fair play A for gutting it out. Pictures prove you were certainly in pain

My 2c: you have to decide NOW what your goal MP is and train accordingly, no point training for a time you won't go for as it would actually be counterproductive. The important thing (I think) is to get the body as used to and efficient as possible at running MP. The Last 2 marathon cycles I had I was 'going' for sub 3 but both times I ran a HM 6-8 weeks put (both 1:26:3x) and at at that point I readjusted my target.
Am i saying you should readjust your target? Probably....honestly I think sub 3 is a stretch for you and an attempt at that could see you have a total disaster. Maybe I am wrong and maybe unforeseen circumstances slowed you down today (however stitches etc tend to come when you are pushing the body to it's limits); but even running a 1:24:XX half would be 'tight' for sub 3 and would require well above average endurance.

What do you think?

I know that I lack the endurance, it's obvious to me, but sub 3 is tough anyway. I'll not call it yet, it's a difference of 10 secs per mile. On a good day, if the planets align etc...........
But thanks for the honesty, much appreciated.

pconn062

Tough luck RK, but you should be happy, you toughed it out when you were feeling like crap and got a PB. Everyone has bad days and that's yours out of the way now, keep the head down now and you will hammer out a great marathon. Remember you are training for a marathon, not a half marathon and with a taper and all you will rock it on the day.

TRR

RunningKing wrote: »

DrQ gave me a good talking too after the race

Good, I hope he sent my regards

Run the kilomarathon and then you can adjust target time if necessary, not a huge difference in training for 3.05 vs 2.5X. Sub 3 is just an artificial time barrier. Think of it as 179 vs 185 minutes. So what if you end up with 183 minutes or the likes.

Dilbert75

Jeez I'd love to be able to say I ran a 1:27 half.

Well done lad.

dazza21ie

Congrats on the PB RK, you really showed some guts out there by the sounds of it. Best just to focus on running the best marathon you can rather than getting to hung up about times. Your training this year has been great so far and you are seeing that in your times. Well done

Cleanman

Well done on the PB RK. Much respect to anyone who is in pain for over an hour and hangs in there for a PB! You'll have good days and you'll have bad days...I guess it's about taking as many positives from the bad days. Hopefully the next day out will be a good day..

RedRunner

Well done A. Definitely no HTFU lacking there!

RunningKing

3 mile recovery run in lashing rain and gale force winds. great!

@Dazza, been thinking about your advice all day.

RunningKing

Mon 16th.

5.5m recovery run with the dog in PP.
Quads a bit sore at the start and left calf at me again.
continuing the self treatment and exercises this week - another follow up appt with Kenneally booked for next Monday.

outforarun

RunningKing wrote: »

.... At mile 4 I started to feel fatigue in the legs -
Took a gel at mile 5 to try to get a bit of energy.
Kept with the group, but was working hard....
Miles 4-6 were tough and had to keep working hard -
At mile 7 I was really struggling - the demons were in my head

Very brave running to arrive at mile 7 like you described above, then battle with a stitch and to still come home with a 5 minute PB. Any future races where things start getting tough you'll be able to draw on the determination shown in this race. Great running.

PaulieYifter

FWIW here's my 2c to add to the mix.

First off well done on a cracking run in Athlone.

Last year I ran a 1:28 half before running a relatively comfortable 3:06 in Dublin.
This year I ran a 1:25 half before running 3:02 in Boston and then agonisingly 3:00:18 in Cork.

After Dublin I kinda regretted not attempting sub 3 - even though I wasn't in shape for it I would have found out how close I was - who knows? - and maybe pushed on a bit more in the next training cycle.

Anyway, ask yourself would you be happy to end up with 3:05 or might you have questions afterwards? Lets say you go for sub 3 but the wheels come off the cart at say 18 miles and you struggle home in 3:12 - would you be ok with that? TBH the bad devil is likely to take over in the later miles if you don't truly believe (happened me in Boston) but it will teach you a lot.

Whatever you decide enjoy it and stay healthy!

RunningKing

Nice post Paulie and articulates very well whats going round the grey matter right now!

RunningKing

outforarun wrote: »

Very brave running to arrive at mile 7 like you described above, then battle with a stitch and to still come home with a 5 minute PB. Any future races where things start getting tough you'll be able to draw on the determination shown in this race. Great running.

Thanks OFAR - I think I also need to figure out why I was feeling like that in the 1st place. Not a good place to be after a few miles.

A huge chasm from how I felt at the faster 10 miler in PP.

RunningKing

Tuesday 17th:
8.45m @ 8:10 (HR 129) - under instruction to keep the pace just above recovery - brought the dog with me to ensure I went slow.
Nice slow and very wet run.
Quads a lot better on this run, but calf still noticeable.

Went through another round of stretchng & calf raises on stairs - felt easier and legs felt stronger afterwards.

Wed 18th

Another very slow run today - the recovery management following the Athlone HM has been excellent.
6.40m @ 8:20.(HR 134)

No other issues on the body - Calf a bit sorer today and very tired today - maybe this is linked?.
Started on a multi-vitamin (with iron) due to the change in the weather - important to keep immune levels up.

~25 mins core work out and another set of calf raises with a heavy backpack.

Calf has not been right since 20th Aug - getting a little worried about return visit to physio on Monday and what he might say.
For now, I'll just keep on running (& icing and anti inflaming and Dialec gelling and compressing and massaging and resting...........)

menoscemo

Can we move the post HM beer discussion to your log now?

So I take it you are just running easy this week? If so I'll be doing a few miles before and maybe 5 after, hoping to make at least 20...Interested?

RunningKing

menoscemo wrote: »

Can we move the post HM beer discussion to your log now?

So I take it you are just running easy this week? If so I'll be doing a few miles before and maybe 5 after, hoping to make at least 20...Interested?

will confirm tomorrow if I'm doing it as a LSR - waiting to hear about a GAA match.
If I'm not doing it I think CL might be having an identity crisis & trying to get me a bad time

Are you pacing or running - If I do it, not sure if I'll do it at 7:40 ish or 8:00 ish??

Let you know tomorrow.

menoscemo

Pacing 1:50, should be in shortly after you....
No panic, just trying to ge t a bit of a crowd together for the Pub