2nd year Programming in Carlow IT

threein99 · 07-12-2012 12:21am #1

Has anyone off here done this course in Carlow ? Im 3 months into second year and have a alot of reservations about the course. We only have one programming lecture a week, then two two hour practical programming classes. That amounts to 5 hours a week, (java is our main programming language but we are learning assembly language also) . We seem to have alot of "filler" subjects that seem dilute our time and leaves very little time for actual programming. How does that compare to programming courses people off here studied ?

Fad · 07-12-2012 12:25am

threein99 wrote: »

Has anyone off here done this course in Carlow ? Im 3 months into second year and have a alot of reservations about the course. We only have one programming lecture a week, then two two hour practical programming classes. That amounts to 5 hours a week, (java is our main programming language but we are learning assembly language also) . We seem to have alot of "filler" subjects that seem dilute our time and leaves very little time for actual programming. How does that compare to programming courses people off here studied ?

What are the other subjects?

Could you just program on your own outside of the course? Or even just learn some stuff the course doesn't cover?

threein99 · 07-12-2012 12:31am

Fad wrote: »

What are the other subjects?

Could you just program on your own outside of the course? Or even just learn some stuff the course doesn't cover?

Mathematics 2
Web Development
Object-Oriented Programming
Systems Analysis
Computer Architecture
Management Accounting
Project

There is the subject list, Im really struggling to find the time for programming, we get so much work from the other subjects that programming feels like a bit of an after thought. We have 33 hours a week in the timetable. One lecture a week doesnt seem enough to me.

Fad · 07-12-2012 12:37am

threein99 wrote: »

Mathematics 2
Web Development
Object-Oriented Programming
Systems Analysis
Computer Architecture
Management Accounting
Project

There is the subject list, Im really struggling to find the time for programming, we get so much work from the other subjects that programming feels like a bit of an after thought. We have 33 hours a week in the timetable. One lecture a week doesnt seem enough to me.

Oh, I'm not saying an hour a week is enough, but lectures will only get you so far, the fact that you have two labs is better than some other courses! Other than the accounting course, most of the other stuff will probably help tbh!

threein99 · 07-12-2012 12:41am

Fad wrote: »

Oh, I'm not saying an hour a week is enough, but lectures will only get you so far, the fact that you have two labs is better than some other courses! Other than the accounting course, most of the other stuff will probably help tbh!

The other subjects are really poorly taught, especially that project class, takes up loads of spare time and programming is getting neglected.

Fad · 07-12-2012 12:53am

threein99 wrote: »

The other subjects are really poorly taught, especially that project class, takes up loads of spare time and programming is getting neglected.

What are you doing in the project?

threein99 · 07-12-2012 1:07am

Fad wrote: »

What are you doing in the project?

We were given a project the second week back in September, to design a computer system that a business might use, we had to come up with an er diagram,data base tables and layout, no programming involved we just had to design screens and explain how it worked. We got our second project today its pretty much the same except this time we have to program it

Fad · 07-12-2012 1:12am

threein99 wrote: »

We were given a project the second week back in September, to design a computer system that a business might use, we had to come up with an er diagram,data base tables and layout, no programming involved we just had to design screens and explain how it worked. We got our second project today its pretty much the same except this time we have to program it

That in itself, while it might seem useless, is a useful skill to have, being able to come up with requirements and stuff. I had a similar course in UCD but instead of actually learning how to use SQL or anything remotely useful like that, we did it through Access...

threein99 · 07-12-2012 1:17am

Fad wrote: »

That in itself, while it might seem useless, is a useful skill to have, being able to come up with requirements and stuff. I had a similar course in UCD but instead of actually learning how to use SQL or anything remotely useful like that, we did it through Access...

It sounds better than it is, there's no theory attached to the subject we have to figure out how to design a database with no notes or any exercises in designing databases. We are using access for our tables.

Fad · 07-12-2012 1:40am

threein99 wrote: »

It sounds better than it is, there's no theory attached to the subject we have to figure out how to design a database with no notes or any exercises in designing databases. We are using access for our tables.

You're in CS and you have a couple hundred posts on boards, you have the entire internet at your disposal! If you're not given notes, you have to find your own, if you are given notes you can probably find infinitely better ones somewhere else on the internet!

conor.hogan.2 · 07-12-2012 1:45am

Fad wrote: »

I had a similar course in UCD but instead of actually learning how to use SQL or anything remotely useful like that, we did it through Access...

They should both not be lecturers.

threein99 · 07-12-2012 9:03am

Fad wrote: »

You're in CS and you have a couple hundred posts on boards, you have the entire internet at your disposal! If you're not given notes, you have to find your own, if you are given notes you can probably find infinitely better ones somewhere else on the internet!

I know that, and that's what I have been doing, what are the people in charge of the subject paid to do then, I don't think notes on something that's entirely new to a lot of people would be too much to ask.

ChRoMe · 07-12-2012 9:51am

Sounds like your issue is mainly with time management rather than the course content. Everything you have listed are reasonable things to teach in addition to programming itself.

threein99 · 07-12-2012 10:37am

ChRoMe wrote: »

Sounds like your issue is mainly with time management rather than the course content. Everything you have listed are reasonable things to teach in addition to programming itself.

Maybe your right, I could try manage my time better, but does it sound right that we are have less programming in our timetable than we did when we were in first year ? and first year was a common first year with networking and applications.

philologos · 07-12-2012 10:46am

OP: teach yourself. Most of the stuff I code in now has been a result of looking into things for myself. In your spare time look into stuff you find interesting get some ideas and maybe even blog about them. Fill up a portfolio of code ideas.

I mainly code in C# or PL / SQL at work, am coding a Java webservice with JQuery / HTML5 UI for an opensource project, like doing some PHP on the side, and want to look into Node.js development. Looking into stuff like source code management and coding practices like unit tests and TDD (Test Driven Development) will serve you well.

It's all about teaching yourself really.

srsly78 · 07-12-2012 10:54am

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

They should both not be lecturers.

You know you can code SQL in access right?

philologos · 07-12-2012 11:25am

srsly78 wrote: »

You know you can code SQL in access right?

I'm sure you can but 99 times out of a hundred Access won't be used in the real world.

srsly78 · 07-12-2012 11:31am

philologos wrote: »

I'm sure you can but 99 times out of a hundred Access won't be used in the real world.

Access does get used in the real world, often badly sure. It is an excellent tool for small businesses, not everyone needs to use Oracle you know? Also VBA programmers get paid more than Oracle dbas - go figure

ChRoMe · 07-12-2012 12:27pm

threein99 wrote: »

Maybe your right, I could try manage my time better, but does it sound right that we are have less programming in our timetable than we did when we were in first year ? and first year was a common first year with networking and applications.

The timetable is a tiny part, you are expected to do a lot of programming independently, the contact hours are just to guide you on what you should be working on.

philologos · 07-12-2012 12:27pm

srsly78 wrote: »

Access does get used in the real world, often badly sure. It is an excellent tool for small businesses, not everyone needs to use Oracle you know? Also VBA programmers get paid more than Oracle dbas - go figure

Oracle and SQL Server are more widely used along with other DBMS systems. Just saying that Access use is extremely rare.

srsly78 · 07-12-2012 12:38pm

philologos wrote: »

Oracle and SQL Server are more widely used along with other DBMS systems. Just saying that Access use is extremely rare.

Nope, not rare at all - it is heavily used in SMALL businesses. Also it can be used as a frontend into SQL server or other system.

It's a great way to teach people basic sql stuff. Most people have this installed without even realising it...

ChRoMe · 07-12-2012 12:45pm

srsly78 wrote: »

Nope, not rare at all - it is heavily used in SMALL businesses. Also it can be used as a frontend into SQL server or other system.

It's a great way to teach people basic sql stuff. Most people have this installed without even realising it...

*Very small.

There is a place for access, however where its usually used is not the correct one.

Sparks · 07-12-2012 2:31pm

Um... hang on. Mathematics a "filler" course? For a programmer??? Just how badly is this being taught?!?!!

(and that's ignoring the other courses, which sound like usual CS fare, but which could easily be taught badly enough to be useless)

srsly78 · 07-12-2012 2:35pm

Ugh yes...

Read a really stupid article on the Guardian recently (sry can't find link), was going on about how you don't need maths to be a programmer. Sure you don't need advanced maths for most stuff... but the article seemed to basically equate maths with numeracy! Maths is about a LOT more than numbers... If you do college level maths numbers hardly even come into it - just greek symbols! Imagine saying that you could be a programmer without needing to understand logic? WTF?

ChRoMe · 07-12-2012 3:01pm

srsly78 wrote: »

Ugh yes...

Read a really stupid article on the Guardian recently (sry can't find link), was going on about how you don't need maths to be a programmer. Sure you don't need advanced maths for most stuff... but the article seemed to basically equate maths with numeracy! Maths is about a LOT more than numbers... If you do college level maths numbers hardly even come into it - just greek symbols! Imagine saying that you could be a programmer without needing to understand logic? WTF?

I can see where they are coming from, I consider myself a software engineer rather than computer scientist. My general standard of maths is ****ing appalling, except for certain situations when doing game development, it's not really an issue.

Sparks · 07-12-2012 3:10pm

ChRoMe wrote: »

I can see where they are coming from, I consider myself a software engineer rather than computer scientist. My general standard of maths is ****ing appalling, except for certain situations when doing game development, it's not really an issue.

You don't need to be able to solve stochastic differential equations in your head, granted; but the ability to think in a mathematical way about things, to be able to do things on the back of an envelope, that kind of thing - those aren't rare tasks for anyone in the industry.

threein99 · 07-12-2012 6:26pm

Sparks wrote: »

Um... hang on. Mathematics a "filler" course? For a programmer??? Just how badly is this being taught?!?!!

(and that's ignoring the other courses, which sound like usual CS fare, but which could easily be taught badly enough to be useless)

I have no issue with the maths side of it, the lecturer in that is excellent, we have just started programming grinds with a qualified programmer, he is amazed at how dated and poorly taught the main programming subjects on the course are, dated notes and lazy teaching.

RealistSpy · 08-12-2012 12:40am

I am currently in 4th year of the course and trust me everything in 2nd year will come to great use. I was thinking the same when I was in 2nd year but later I realise how useful these modules were. You also have to do extra work outside college. As far as I am concern you will only learn the basics in college and it's up to you to further your development.

conor.hogan.2 · 08-12-2012 12:42am

srsly78 wrote: »

You know you can code SQL in access right?

Yes. This was a MSc level module on SQL though. The main project should not have been using MS Access.

Just heard this lecturer was recently told to step aside. About time really, at least from that course.

2nd year Programming in Carlow IT

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