Should demo songs be on an album?

thejigsaw

Question for the music heads out there, should a band re-record songs from their demo/ ep on their first album or should it be all, or mostly all, new material?

kahler

depends. if you re record them, will they sound better or worse? and if you record a better version, why not? you d be mad not to.
on the converse side is that sometimes a rough demo often has more appeal than a more polished perfomance. sometimes there can be more warmth and energy in it.
but if you simply put the same mixes on the album as the ep, i cant imagine it would go down too well. might seem as if you were taking your audience for a bit of a ride. that'd be my tuppence worth anyway..

joydivision

How many people have heard the ep ? How many will hear the album.

flyswatter

If some of the songs from the EP are of a high standard it'd be mad to leave them off the album IMO.

viadah

OP isn't asking should they put demos on their official album, they're asking should they re-record demo songs for the album. In this case, most unsigned bands release demos on the internet, Facebook and MySpace and all that, so they're asking basically is it the done thing to re-record songs their fanbase prolli already own. My take would be if you're writing new songs for an album and the demos would fit perfectly with the tone of the coalescing album if re-recorded, then it's entirely up to yourself, but if it fits go for it. Prolli best not to do it if you feel you need 'filler' for the mid-album slump, cos then, you're doing it for the wrong reasons anyway.

benestoria2

The Killers (Mr.Brightside), Muse (Muscle Museum) and the Kings of Leon (California waiting) arguably 3 of the biggest bands in the world right now have all re-recorded early demos and songs from EPs for their debut albums....so i dont think its such a bad idea

Deschain

why not? A demo means demonstration, as in a demonstration of the bands ability when looking for labels to sign them. 0f course if the chance to record the album properly came about it should be done. Most signed bands will still record demos before recording an album properly. Demos should not be seen as the end result only a precursor to the end result.

thejigsaw

I started this thread because my band were recently offered the chance to release an album on a domestic label and we had a bit of a debate about the track listing. We released a 4 track ep/ demo 6 months ago and we always thought of this ep as a taster for what our first album. The four songs are part of a set of songs that fit together thematically and musically so we figured rerecording them as part of our first album would be a no brainer.
Nay say the record company.
They said they want new songs because everyone has heard those songs already. But I think If the album does its job should reach a bigger audience than the ep. Plus the songs are being heard in a new context with an improved sound and execution. Plus even the people who have heard the songs before will still be getting 8 or so new songs along with new and improved versions of the ep songs.
We have enough songs to do an album without reusing the ep/demo songs but we feel like that would be a compromise and ultimately lead us to not making the album we have always wanted to make. What was interesting though was how things have changed as a result of internet based music promotion. Back in the day if a band got signed it would be virtually unheard of for them to make an album without digging into their demo material but now if your songs have been sitting on soundcloud/ bandcamp/ youtube etc. for a while you may have already started the timer on their shelf life.

Nervous Wreck

Just a little point of interest but why do you keep referring to it as a demo/ep? Which is it? There's a pretty big difference like.


Back on topic, I'd generally of the opinion that each release should be as separate an entity as possible. So I wouldn't be overly excited about releasing an EP only to throw those same songs onto an album a year later. That said, that's just the way I see my own music and I completely understand why others come at it from the other side, especially if they've got a chance to vastly improve the quality of the recordings for the album. Bit crap that they won't let you put those songs on when you want to but I guess that's part of the industry.

thejigsaw

Semantics. I say demo/ep because to me an ep released by an unsigned band is a demo.

Nervous Wreck

Completely disagree on that!

thejigsaw

Maybe not in every case but most bands will release an ep with the intent of it gaining them record label interest and more exposure hence it being a "demonstration" release rather than a self contained entity with no aspirations other than it being an artistic outlet.

Nervous Wreck

I'd disagree with that as well tbh...

joydivision

I never understood eps . Are they demos or albums that are a bit short ?
How much do you charge for them ?
Is the label paying the studio time ?
Once your signed are you making good money ?
Who takes the risk on investment you or the label ?
So many questions so little time .

Nervous Wreck

joydivision wrote: »

I never understood eps . Are they demos or albums that are a bit short ?
How much do you charge for them ?
Is the label paying the studio time ?
Once your signed are you making good money ?
Who takes the risk on investment you or the label ?
So many questions so little time .

EPs are usually between 4 and 7 tracks long. They're not demos nor albums. More than a single, less than an album. Bands' reasons for doing EPs can vary. For independent bands/artists, EPs are a good first release for a variety of reasons. It gives the band a chance to 'cut their teeth' on the whole recording/releasing thing. It's less costly because there's less studio time involved. Fewer songs means less pressure to write. Etc. Prices vary, I guess, but I'd say usually around the €5 mark is normal.

For all the rest, it depends on the label. For a professionally run label though, they pay for everything.

thejigsaw

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

EPs are usually between 4 and 7 tracks long. They're not demos nor albums. More than a single, less than an album. Bands' reasons for doing EPs can vary. For independent bands/artists, EPs are a good first release for a variety of reasons. It gives the band a chance to 'cut their teeth' on the whole recording/releasing thing. It's less costly because there's less studio time involved. Fewer songs means less pressure to write. Etc. Prices vary, I guess, but I'd say usually around the €5 mark is normal.

For all the rest, it depends on the label. For a professionally run label though, they pay for everything.

How would you define a demo then?

joydivision

thejigsaw wrote: »

How would you define a demo then?

Even I know that . Its a demonstration of what you could fo if you had the money or backing . And its free .

thejigsaw

Also the Record Company don't really pay for anything. They put up the cash for recording, duplication, marketing etc. but they take it all back from sales and then some. Think of it like a mortgage for your band.

joydivision

thejigsaw wrote: »

Also the Record Company don't really pay for anything. They put up the cash for recording, duplication, marketing etc. but they take it all back from sales and then some. Think of it like a mortgage for your band.

Yeah but if it all goes belly up they dont repossess your guitar do they ?

thejigsaw

joydivision wrote: »

Even I know that . Its a demonstration of what you could fo if you had the money or backing . And its free .

How's it free?? Everything the poster said about an ep also described a demo so I'm asking him what the difference between the two is.

joydivision

thejigsaw wrote: »

How's it free?? Everything the poster said about an ep also described a demo so I'm asking him what the difference between the two is.

Thought you were asking a question ha.

thejigsaw

I did...

Nervous Wreck

thejigsaw wrote: »

How would you define a demo then?

As a demo.... An E.P. is a finished product. A demo is not. It's a demo.

Strictly speaking, bands (with the resources) will 'demo' an album before recording it properly i.e. make rough recordings of the songs to figure out how they sound recorded and what could be added or subtracted to make them better. Bands 'releasing' demos are doing themselves a disservice, imo. If it's not finished, I don't see any point in releasing it to the world at large. However, bands often send rough demos to promoters to try to get gigs. Understandable but, at this stage, practically pointless considering a youtube link etc would generally suffice.

I generally demo all my songs. Rough recordings that I listen back to (sometimes obsessively) and weed out the bad parts, change up the lyrics etc etc. But I never release them for others to hear because they're not finished.

thejigsaw wrote: »

Also the Record Company don't really pay for anything. They put up the cash for recording, duplication, marketing etc. but they take it all back from sales and then some. Think of it like a mortgage for your band.

They pay for it all and take a big cut off the profits. If the record flops, the artist doesn't pay the label back. If it's a success, the expenses are recouped and profits split according to the deal. We're both basically saying the same thing on this though.

thejigsaw

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

As a demo.... An E.P. is a finished product. A demo is not. It's a demo.

Strictly speaking, bands (with the resources) will 'demo' an album before recording it properly i.e. make rough recordings of the songs to figure out how they sound recorded and what could be added or subtracted to make them better. Bands 'releasing' demos are doing themselves a disservice, imo. If it's not finished, I don't see any point in releasing it to the world at large. However, bands often send rough demos to promoters to try to get gigs. Understandable but, at this stage, practically pointless considering a youtube link etc would generally suffice.

I generally demo all my songs. Rough recordings that I listen back to (sometimes obsessively) and weed out the bad parts, change up the lyrics etc etc. But I never release them for others to hear because they're not finished.



Yeah I get what you mean now. What you're describing though is what I would call pre production but point taken.