New bike and underground car park? Would you?

paddy147

P.C. wrote: »

Buy an old van, park that in your parking spot, then put the bike in the back of the van.

No need to tax the van, as you will not be driving it, and it is on private property.

Van can/may be removed by the gardai,and also management company andl also if they feel like it.

Classed by the apartment management company and the gardai as a fire hazzard,attracting unwanted attention and taking up a parking space.

Its happened before.





PS-Imagine trying to explain to an insurance company that your motorbike got damaged because it was locked up inside an uninsured van in a carpark.

Del2005

paddy147 wrote: »

Van can/may be removed by the gardai,and also management company andl also if they feel like it.

Classed by the apartment management company and the gardai as a fire hazzard,attracting unwanted attention and taking up a parking space.

Its happened before.





PS-Imagine trying to explain to an insurance company that your motorbike got damaged because it was locked up inside an uninsured van in a carpark.

Gardaí won't touch it, I know we've had several abandoned cars in our complex. There's no requirement to have a vehicle taxed once it's parked off the public road, which an apartment complex is, and most have house rules against parking of commercial vehicles. So once it's transferred to private tax and parked in the OPs assigned place the MC can't do anything about, they may not be happy about it but the OP only rents so doesn't care and if the clamp it it'll only make it more secure.

Every car in the car park is a fire hazard!

What law is there against leaving a bike in van in a car park? It would be the same as having it damaged parked in the car park or locked in a barna type shed. Someone posted about leaving the bike in a room in the complex and someone else wanted to put a 20' container in, there more of a fire hazard then having a van with a bike in it.

spankmaster2000

rat_race wrote: »

Bought a new Tiger 800, picking up in Jan.

You should be safe enough so!

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2012/December/dec06-most-likely-to-get-stolen-bikes/

Cuddlesworth

Luca Brasi wrote: »

Really that is the most stupid unhelpful advice. If you knew anything about management company operations you would know that they would remove any unauthorised fitting/alterations to the property. I would advise him to approach the property manager and explain your predicament? I'm sure that if it is a good management company they will consider any request that will improve the security of the property and belongings of residents. You will not get away with installing your own fitting

Most management agents I have met are the most worthless morons at taking action against anything.

Del2005

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Most management agents I have met are the most worthless morons at taking action against anything.

What they don't know doesn't harm you. Install a folding anchor or place a normal one close to a pillar/wall and keep stum;)

Wonda-Boy

Del2005 wrote: »

What they don't know doesn't harm you. Install a folding anchor or place a normal one close to a pillar/wall and keep stum;)

Yeah chances are no one would even see the anchor unless some goon trips over it or some ****. :rolleyes:

CrazyRabbit

Ground Anchor + Almax Series III or IV chain + Hardie Locks+ Alarm + a few spent bullet casings on the ground (you can buy them at military displays/shows).

Barry Barry

Luca Brasi wrote: »

Really that is the most stupid unhelpful advice. If you knew anything about management company operations you would know that they would remove any unauthorised fitting/alterations to the property. I would advise him to approach the property manager and explain your predicament? I'm sure that if it is a good management company they will consider any request that will improve the security of the property and belongings of residents. You will not get away with installing your own fitting

OP just got permission from landlord to fit an anchor.

And I doubt the managment will give a toss tbh (speaking from experience)

Del2005

Barry Barry wrote: »

OP just got permission from landlord to fit an anchor.

And I doubt the managment will give a toss tbh (speaking from experience)

The landlord can't give permission to install an anchor. They don't own anything in the complex, the management company own everything. You'd be surprised what some management companies care about.

But fitting a ground anchor doesn't solve the vandalism threat to the OPs new bike and I'm sure the OP want's be the 1st person to damage their new bike, I know no one wants to damage their new pride and joy but it's slightly better to do it yourself than have some scumbag do it for you.

listermint

Ignore the other posters here and just put the ground / Wall anchor in place. There are some people who just give out about stuff for the sake of voicing an opinion.

paddy147

Barry Barry wrote: »

OP just got permission from landlord to fit an anchor.

And I doubt the managment will give a toss tbh (speaking from experience)

Landlord has no say in this.

4 words for you with regards management company and drilling/fitting a ground anchor into a car parking space.......

Trip Hazard...Injury Claim.

The OP,landlord and management company would be had up in court for any injuries sustained by anyone else tripping up over the ground anchor and possibly breaking limbs or suffering a head injury.


THe OP therefore would need to get full written permission from management company to alter the parking space and drill/fit a ground anchor,and also put up a sign warning the public and other carpark users of a trip hazard too.


This then takes liability off the OP and places full liability with the management company........hard to imagine a management company agreeing to this (in view of the law and safety issues)

paddy147

Luca Brasi wrote: »

Really that is the most stupid unhelpful advice. If you knew anything about management company operations you would know that they would remove any unauthorised fitting/alterations to the property. I would advise him to approach the property manager and explain your predicament? I'm sure that if it is a good management company they will consider any request that will improve the security of the property and belongings of residents. You will not get away with installing your own fitting

+1

Wonda-Boy

If there is even the slightest chance of a claim etc management companies would not let you put a flower pot up in the place. Its not so much as the anchor they would have a problem with its anything that can/will come back on them they are safeguarding against.

CrazyRabbit

The anchor can be placed on a wall or pillar. In fact, it's advised. Much harder to cut the chain when it's off the ground as they can't use bolt cutters.

Merch

P.C. wrote: »

Buy an old van, park that in your parking spot, then put the bike in the back of the van.

No need to tax the van, as you will not be driving it, and it is on private property.

This sounds like a good idea really, some cost involved in getting van and having some tax/insurance to move it to the location, but some piece of mind.
If it keeps things out of sight or hidden in plain sight. I dont know what lengths people will go to get a specific bike but I'd imagine it would be extensive if the price is right. Putting a ground anchor apart from the permission element/trip hazard, if someone would go to the lengths of following you, will just mean they will know where it is so if they are determined it will be in the open if they want to try it.
I think out of sight regarding anything is the most important thing, thats my opinion for whatever its worth. You can still lock it to a security anchor bolted and welded into the van, but that'd be me.
You could turn the van from time to time to make it look used/block the doors, and I'd keep it clean looking and the tyres pumped up.
I'd have a means of shutting off the fuel/ignition(electrically/pull an ignition relay out) and maybe the ability to lock it in gear so it can't be used as the means to drive your bike away!
I'd consider an electric winch to get it up a ramp, moving a weight of what? few hundred kilos will be a pain in the mammary's.
Would there be any connections of 230v that could be easily accessed? Or run it off 12v

Merch

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

The anchor can be placed on a wall or pillar. In fact, it's advised. Much harder to cut the chain when it's off the ground as they can't use bolt cutters.

Maybe its because I haven't tried this, but how does this work (or not)
A bolt cutters will work if something is not in contact with the ground and if it was a disc being used, well so long as they get at some part of it and some part of it will be fixed to the ancho so they could wok on that bit? so surely anchor against the wall isn't much extra of a measure of security? maybe it adds a limited amount of extra difficulty? it could be i just dont have a clue as per the first sentence?

I haven't tried to go at hardened chains or locks with a bolt cutters or a disc cutter.
I'm just trying to visualise it being effective?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Merch wrote: »

Maybe its because I haven't tried this, but how does this work (or not)
A bolt cutters will work if something is not in contact with the ground and if it was a disc being used, well so long as they get at some part of it and some part of it will be fixed to the ancho so they could wok on that bit? so surely anchor against the wall isn't much extra of a measure of security? maybe it adds a limited amount of extra difficulty? it could be i just dont have a clue as per the first sentence?

I haven't tried to go at hardened chains or locks with a bolt cutters or a disc cutter.
I'm just trying to visualise it being effective?

Youtube is your friend, there are a few examples there how a bolt cutters is assisted by using the ground as leverage.. I can't link you atm, sorry.

Had I had a choice I'd have mounted my two off the ground, but I didn't have that choice but I feel pretty secure.

Merch

Reuben Faint Concrete wrote: »

Youtube is your friend, there are a few examples there how a bolt cutters is assisted by using the ground as leverage.. I can't link you atm, sorry.

Had I had a choice I'd have mounted my two off the ground, but I didn't have that choice but I feel pretty secure.

I think it means it just makes it more difficult to do, but not impossible.
I'll just link myself to have a look see.

A wall mount will want to be a pretty solid object, like onto steel reinforced concrete (I'd suggest), which pillars would be I'm sure. But in a domestic scenario, I wouldn't want to bolt something to a normal wall.
I can't really see a management company agreeing to it, but who knows.
If they do and something happens like a trip, they are making themselves liable.
They may turn a blind eye if it's done and then they can work on the basis that they never gave permission, but surely if they are asked they will for simplicity sake for themselves, say no.
I guess the OP won't know unless they ask, but then they are alerted and may look for it.

Cienciano

Here's people using bolt cutters against the ground as leverage. And also, why you should buy an almax chain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpf35C7wu6Q

You can get more leverage if you slip a length of pipe over the bolt cutter lever. But you can imagine if the chain was suspended in mid air cos it's pulled tight, it would be far more awkward to cut.

Merch

Never heard of an almax chain, looks like its the last word in chains.
looks like they are hardened and toughened, some of the other chains just snapped on the other side from the first break.
I can see how near or on the ground gives leverage.(edit, but those cutters could be way off the ground also with the length of them)
The lock will have to be up to as much as the chain links too or whatever it is locked to
I was kind of visualising someone going at the chain near the anchor or the anchor itself even if wall mounted with a bolt cutter or even with some kind of disc cutter too, but I dont know how realistic/likely that is due to the noise.

You can get an awful vibration out of something like that, goes through you, they really should wear some safety gear too

CrazyRabbit

Merch wrote: »

Never heard of an almax chain, looks like its the last word in chains.
looks like they are hardened and toughened, some of the other chains just snapped on the other side from the first break.
I can see how near or on the ground gives leverage.(edit, but those cutters could be way off the ground also with the length of them)
The lock will have to be up to as much as the chain links too or whatever it is locked to
I was kind of visualising someone going at the chain near the anchor or the anchor itself even if wall mounted with a bolt cutter or even with some kind of disc cutter too, but I dont know how realistic/likely that is due to the noise.

You can get an awful vibration out of something like that, goes through you, they really should wear some safety gear too

I have an Almax Series IV chain. It weighs a lot, but I'm pretty sure it could be used to anchor a cruise liner to the dock.

eurofoxy

Always like seeing that video, its simply amazing that thatcham give their mark to some of these chains...
notice they didnt test their own chains in the same manner, i know on their website they do show some of their chains etc but they dont show a bolt cutters that size...

And to be honest, if someone has a decent bolt cutters and the right technique like this this guy had, i dont think any chain will stop him.. its more going to delay him than stop and if he is motivated enough a ground anchor/van/ frame wired to the mains, it wont matter he is still going to get it...

my advice is if you are going the route of almax get one of their recommended anchors, as some of the normal anchors the almax chain wont fit it, and make sure you state tha value of the chain on your insurance as its and expensive piece of kit....

daenerysstormborn3

Isn't it a sad indictment of society that a 4 page thread about your new bike isn't about being delighted that you're getting a new bike? It's sickening that with the amount of scumbags in this country you can't just enjoy something new.

I only had my brand new Duke a few days and someone kicked one of the rear indicators off it - I was at a doctor's appointment when it happened, imagine doing that in the car park of a health centre??? Minimal damage and easily fixed but how about I go around and start smashing the indicators off cars?!

Almax seems to be the way to go OP but you'd want to get sorted quickly because once you have the bike you won't be able to sit still unless it's secure. Have you had a look at cameras, ones you could attach to the bike or near it? In the event that someone tampers with your bike, you'd have video evidence?

I've always thought that a bike sensor of some description, that sends a text to your phone if the bike is moved, might be useful.

Cienciano

eurofoxy wrote: »

Always like seeing that video, its simply amazing that thatcham give their mark to some of these chains...
notice they didnt test their own chains in the same manner, i know on their website they do show some of their chains etc but they dont show a bolt cutters that size...

And to be honest, if someone has a decent bolt cutters and the right technique like this this guy had, i dont think any chain will stop him.. its more going to delay him than stop and if he is motivated enough a ground anchor/van/ frame wired to the mains, it wont matter he is still going to get it...

my advice is if you are going the route of almax get one of their recommended anchors, as some of the normal anchors the almax chain wont fit it, and make sure you state tha value of the chain on your insurance as its and expensive piece of kit....

Some of the locks for sale in bicycle shops are a disgrace. You'd almost pull them apart with your bare hands.
I've seen a few almax videos, they even get guys from bike magazines to have a go with a load of locks, they can cut them all except the almax.
The real problem is if someone has a grinder! That'll cut through anything.

When I got my almax they rang me, they didn't have the CISA lock I ordered, they said CISA won't supply them anymore because one of the Almax guys was on ITV cutting one of their chains in a demo! Got a squire lock instead.

CrazyRabbit

Cienciano wrote: »

Some of the locks for sale in bicycle shops are a disgrace. You'd almost pull them apart with your bare hands.
I've seen a few almax videos, they even get guys from bike magazines to have a go with a load of locks, they can cut them all except the almax.
The real problem is if someone has a grinder! That'll cut through anything.

When I got my almax they rang me, they didn't have the CISA lock I ordered, they said CISA won't supply them anymore because one of the Almax guys was on ITV cutting one of their chains in a demo! Got a squire lock instead.

The Hardie locks that Almax sell with their chains are also really good. Very snug fit on the chain, and the u-shape part is barely visible. I'll try get the exact name later and edit this post.

paddy147

Rat_Race...ignore all the posts here and advice here.

Simply go and speak to the carpark management company 1st,before you do anything and spend any money out on locks or chains or anchors.


Then you will know where you stand and what you can and cannot do.

Wonda-Boy

The only thing better then an almax chain.....is 2 almax chains. I am getting 2 first thing in the new year, and my bike is like fort knox already but with that ****e oxford and urban chains.

I would really like to get the sensor you place on or near the bike that sends a txt message if the bike is tampered with. So they dont even know you on the way down the stairs with a lump hammer.

Cuddlesworth

Cienciano wrote: »

Some of the locks for sale in bicycle shops are a disgrace. You'd almost pull them apart with your bare hands.

Saw a great video on youtube recently of a guy walking up to locked bikes and yanked them with his full body weight. Locks snapped, frame is undamaged and off he goes.

Cienciano wrote: »

I've seen a few almax videos, they even get guys from bike magazines to have a go with a load of locks, they can cut them all except the almax.
The real problem is if someone has a grinder! That'll cut through anything

I had a go at the last link on my almax chain three years ago with a grinder. Wasn't easy in the slightest and I was well used to using it. The outside is hard, but the inside metal is very malleable. When being cut the metal flattens out and extends, so it takes far longer to cut as your going through far more material then you should be. Thinking back, probably should have recorded it.

eurofoxy wrote: »

And to be honest, if someone has a decent bolt cutters and the right technique like this this guy had, i dont think any chain will stop him.. its more going to delay him than stop and if he is motivated enough a ground anchor/van/ frame wired to the mains, it wont matter he is still going to get it...

As above, the inside of a Almax chain is quite soft. It screws up bolt cutters, makes them apply force in more than a single direction which causes them to mis-align. The chain breaks the bolt cutters, rather then the opposite. There are a few people in English forums that had a go at it.

On the bike being nicked if they want it, they will get it, you are completely right. But I think the important note is how much they want it. The more security you have, the less they might actually want to get it as its too much hassle. Why nick the new bike with a consaw in a apartment block, when you can pull up in a van and lift any number of bikes into the back of it practically risk free?