Dark Souls II

Mickeroo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I'm still surprised it hasn't been patched out yet. It still feels very much like a development oversight bug to me. I totally negates and breaks the whole human/undead mechanic which seems counter intuitive to what the developer was pushing before release.

But they made the human/hollow thing largely redundant in this considering you can be invaded/summoned while human anyway, the only thing you can't do is summon other people or invade yourself. They clearly wanted to encourage people to use the online features in this, but they really messed up by making effigies so thin on the ground, fact is without that ring I wouldn't be able to play this game the way I like to or indeed, the way I liked to play the first game.

Personally I find not losing my souls rather than humanity more game breaking.

It is early days yet though so I'm sure there'll be changes, if they got rid of the ring but maybe have one of the merchants sell unlimited effigies for a biggish price then I'd be happy enough.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Means you can't hang around collecting lots of souls at boss gates from doing co-op. Plenty of times I did so much co-op I had to run back to the bonfire because my weapons broke

Anytime i've had a successful co-op or invasion it's repaired my weapons?

Retr0gamer

Maybe I've been less successful then

Seems the randomly getting your humanity back from being summoned is a bug in the game. I found it only happened when I died during co-op invasion.

The lack of human effegies does seem to be a bit of a problem that could limit hosts and therefore co-op which is worrying. Really they should have made it so successfully beating the boss even as a phantom gives you humanity. If the ring of protection is what they are using to balance it out then it's a very poorly thought out measure imo.

DinoRex

Yeah. You don't even get an effigy for beating a boss in this, do you?

Humanity was something you could always count on getting after a boss battle in DS1.

Mickeroo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Maybe I've been less successful then

Maybe you need to git gud :P

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Seems the randomly getting your humanity back from being summoned is a bug in the game. I found it only happened when I died during co-op invasion.

The lack of human effegies does seem to be a bit of a problem that could limit hosts and therefore co-op which is worrying. Really they should have made it so successfully beating the boss even as a phantom gives you humanity. If the ring of protection is what they are using to balance it out then it's a very poorly thought out measure imo.

yeah that is a bug apparently, but I personally think returning as a human after a successful co-op would be a pretty good game mechanic and definitely a more balanced way of obtaining humanty than the ring.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's got pretty much the same description as the Ring of sacrifice in DS1. This one just doesn't sit right with me.

DS1:

Its wearer will lose nothing upon death,
but the ring itself breaks.

DS2:

It's great protective power will protect you from any loss upon death, but after it's power is spent, the ring will break

I hearby declare that we should shun all wearers of the ring as flappy bird playing casuals :P

then dont use it i dont see what the issue is

Mickeroo

Mallory Rancid Sunset wrote: »

then dont use it i dont see what the issue is

Easier said then done, it's the same reason why Mrs. Doyle had to smash up that tea making machine.

J_E

Mickeroo wrote: »

It is early days yet though so I'm sure there'll be changes, if they got rid of the ring but maybe have one of the merchants sell unlimited effigies for a biggish price then I'd be happy enough.

There's a spot during late-game where you get become human at no cost if you have no effigies left.

The ring is way too cheap to repair, you're practically making a profit just using it if you collect any amount of souls, either ramp up the repair cost, reduce it's effectiveness, or have it vanish after a certain amount of uses.

johnny_ultimate

calex71

Mickeroo wrote: »

Easier said then done, it's the same reason why Mrs. Doyle had to smash up that tea making machine.

Grayditch

Throw the ring away, lads...



Do it!

ShadowHearth

As I said before, that ring breaks Dark Souls. I am saying this as a **** Truck level 140 and 650k Souls on me right now just because **** you, thats why, and completely no fear of death. If you can do basic maths, you will know, that I can afford a death good few times. :pac:
Again, EASY to say -dont use it, but problem is, if that ring is put in properly the way dev intended and its not just a bug, that means that it had to be balanced in to game too. This would explain why Effigies are so rare. We have to relay on that ring instead.
The easy solution to a problem. Make that ring unrepairable, then make that old crow to sell effigies for 3k a pop unlimited amount, instead off only 5.

This will mean that ring abuse is gone and effigies are still out there to be used.

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Easier said then done, it's the same reason why Mrs. Doyle had to smash up that tea making machine.

seriously though if your that anti it and feel it "breaks the game" then it should be easy to not use it

i only realized i had one yesterday when this was being talked about iv not used it and i probably wont

DinoRex

I only used it in Shrine of Amana.

It definitely felt like cheating though. Best way to wean yourself off using it is to think of all the other juicy rings you could have in that slot instead.

ShadowHearth

DinoRex wrote: »

I only used it in Shrine of Amana.

It definitely felt like cheating though. Best way to wean yourself off using it is to think of all the other juicy rings you could have in that slot instead.

Not really. Look at it as using the ring of protection and having 100% of health and pretty much immortality or the ring that lets you have 75% of health as Hollow ( as I am pretty sure everyone is using it ) in that one spot.

johnny_ultimate

Infinite effigy supply would just be a slightly different solution to the same problem. No difference between having a ring that's repairable for 3,000 souls and a supply of effigies for the same price. You'd still be legging it back to base camp after most deaths (with a little bit of farming in between, occasionally), and hollowing would still be nothing more than an irritant - it really is a pretty much useless state here, unlike the last game where it actually had tangible benefits compared to being human.

The only thing IMO potentially 'broken' about the ring is being able to keep your souls. If anything's to be patched, it should be that. Again, to me that's far from the ring's main function anyway, and would happily live without it.

krudler

DinoRex wrote: »

Yeah. You don't even get an effigy for beating a boss in this, do you?

Humanity was something you could always count on getting after a boss battle in DS1.

in DS1 you got at least 1 humanity and 50% of whatever souls the boss dropped, in this you get nada beyond whatever souls you accumulate on the way to boss gate. Even if you got a single effigy for defeating 2 or 3 bosses it'd make it worth while chucking down your sign and helping a brother out a few times.

It's a contradicting mechanic tbh, they want people to utilise online play as much as possible, yet the thing that lets you summon people are really rare once you're halfway through the game, I couldn't tell you the last time I found one in a chest. I respawned the dogs by the Belfy bonfire 5 or 6 times and didnt get one effigy from them even with the serpent ring on, blah.

calex71

krudler wrote: »

in DS1 you got at least 1 humanity and 50% of whatever souls the boss dropped, in this you get nada beyond whatever souls you accumulate on the way to boss gate. Even if you got a single effigy for defeating 2 or 3 bosses it'd make it worth while chucking down your sign and helping a brother out a few times.

It's a contradicting mechanic tbh, they want people to utilise online play as much as possible, yet the thing that lets you summon people are really rare once you're halfway through the game, I couldn't tell you the last time I found one in a chest. I respawned the dogs by the Belfy bonfire 5 or 6 times and didnt get one effigy from them even with the serpent ring on, blah.

You do get souls for beating a boss as a phantom , at least I'm 99% certain you do. Running the Aerie is the best for souls, even half heartedly once you see how they are geared up and know its going to be BBQ time at the boss fog, with a silver ring and gear from the cove you can get around 49% extra souls which in that area is massive even without seeing the boss for a roasting.

krudler

calex71 wrote: »

You do get souls for beating a boss as a phantom , at least I'm 99% certain you do. Running the Aerie is the best for souls, even half heartedly once you see how they are geared up and know its going to be BBQ time at the boss fog, with a silver ring and gear from the cove you can get around 49% extra souls which in that area is massive even without seeing the boss for a roasting.

Do you? I didnt think you did, nothing substantial anyway, I helped a guy beat the chariot boss and had like 6k souls when i came back to the bonfire, i would have gotten those on the way there as we cleared out most of the area, wonder is it buggy

J_E

krudler wrote: »

in DS1 you got at least 1 humanity and 50% of whatever souls the boss dropped, in this you get nada beyond whatever souls you accumulate on the way to boss gate.

That's wrong. I got a ton of souls doing bosses as a phantom while getting sunlight medals for the covenant.

krudler

Cydoniac wrote: »

That's wrong. I got a ton of souls doing bosses as a phantom while getting sunlight medals for the covenant.

I must test this later, I definitely remember being surprised the first time I helped a guy beat a boss and didnt seem to get anything for it

Mickeroo

You definitely get souls, not as much as in DS1 though I think.

johnny_ultimate

It seems to be around a quarter or third of what you'd get for beating them otherwise - certainly it's always been in the low-mid thousands anytime I've done it.

ShadowHearth

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Infinite effigy supply would just be a slightly different solution to the same problem. No difference between having a ring that's repairable for 3,000 souls and a supply of effigies for the same price. You'd still be legging it back to base camp after most deaths (with a little bit of farming in between, occasionally), and hollowing would still be nothing more than an irritant - it really is a pretty much useless state here, unlike the last game where it actually had tangible benefits compared to being human.

The only thing IMO potentially 'broken' about the ring is being able to keep your souls. If anything's to be patched, it should be that. Again, to me that's far from the ring's main function anyway, and would happily live without it.

I dont agree with this at all.

If you change the system like I said:

1. You will die and you will have a Penalty of death again, which is now completely gone due to ring.
2. You will drop souls, you will be back in risk of getting them back. That is the main issue you have with ring too.
3. You will be able to become human again if needed, by buying Humanity ( I would indeed make it more expensive though, 5-6k maybe )
4. You wont be able just to stack souls and have them like a wallet. something I can do so easily now. I hold hundreds of thousands of souls like in a bank for rainy day. I have no fear in losing them at all now.

I will repeat myself again and again, this ring is breaking the spirit of Dark Souls and by just ignoring you wont fix the issue, because that ring is part of the reason why effigies are so rare. Even if you decide to not use it, you are still feeling the issues of grand design. Its the same issue Diablo 3 had due to AH. You can choose not to use it, but it will be impossible for you to progress unless you want to put in thousands of hours based on complete luck. Look at Diablo 3 now when they realised it. They did not just turned of AH, they had to revamp the whole system.
I already know Boardsies who are thinking to reroll and restart the whole game, just because they are out off effigies and cant beat bosses. And in fairness beating some bosses at half hp bar is almost impossible.

I am not saying it is impossible to beat game by not using that ring, I completed DS2 by not using the ring and still having 25 effigies, I only discovered this Sneaky tactic when I was just fecking around the world and doing some trophies before hitting NG+.

tok9

As far as I'm concerned they just need to improve the drop rate of Effigies.

If someone want's to buy them in a store then they should be at least 15000 with the new improved drop rate.

ShadowHearth

tok9 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned they just need to improve the drop rate of Effigies.

If someone want's to buy them in a store then they should be at least 15000 with the new improved drop rate.

If not buying, then it would work if you could get one effigy for killing a boss. thats another 30 effigies in game?

johnny_ultimate

You didn't read the rest of my post, Shadowhearth - I have no problem whatsoever with them patching out the 'keep souls' aspect of the ring if they so wish. I don't use it as a soul bank, but simply a way to maintain humanity (a rare resource). That is no different than having a spot where you could buy infinite effigies - indeed, having to keep running back to keep it repaired is more inconvenient than (theoretically) being able to keep your inventory stocked full of dozens of effigies. This is all hypothetical, of course, but the humanity side of the ring's functionality is in no way, shape or form broken IMO.

I think the hollowing / humanity system here has deeper issues than a mere ring. Even if it was patched that completely out of existence and the human effigy rate improved, hollowing as it stands would still be a dud state with few if any benefits. It's undoubtedly an awkward system in an otherwise impeccably designed game, but as it stands the ring is a simple and IMO pretty much harmless way of bypassing one of the game's few frustrating design decisions. Above all, I simply do no not think it negatively impacts the game in any fundamental way - the actual playing is still as challenging and compelling whether or not the player is wearing the ring of life protection.

Zero-Cool

Drangleic Castle didn't last long! Shrine of armani is getting tiresome, had one go off the boss, shouldn't be too long at him (what a strange looking fellow). Its weird how the cyclops ogres give me more problens than bosses.

calex71

Guys for those who are playing with spells etc, I'm at end game pure melee minimal fth/int was just wondering what would be the best things to spend the spices on to lower requirements of, and what charm / staff might be worth putting some titanite into,

Retr0gamer

I found if you're not pumping stats into faith/int and attunement them ranged attacks are a waste, particularly against bosses. You won't be doing enough damage to matter and your casting time will be really low.

tok9

After making my way through the crypt and finishing off the boss who I quite liked as a battle.

One relatively good moment. Early on there is that guy with the torch.. I decided to let him follow me until I got to the "Dark" area... It was here I decided he was my buddy so I didn't care what I was told. Brought him with me, all hell broke loose and after all that he wouldn't even go beyond the next area with me!

So much for friendship

Also, I take it when you beat the boss you move forward and then have to go back to the last bonfire ya?