Buying Petrol

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

That cant be legal

If its in their contract of employment and it doesn't involve them being paid below minimum wage it's probably fine.

Merch

Procrastastudy wrote: »

If its in their contract of employment and it doesn't involve them being paid below minimum wage it's probably fine.

Can you provide some proof of that, I'd like to see this

I'm more inclined to believe that a contract cannot write out rights under the law

I'm not 100% certain if this is the most up to date

(c) in the case of a deduction, the employee has given his prior consent in writing to it.


(2) An employer shall not make a deduction from the wages of an employee in respect of—


(a) any act or omission of the employee

that seems to suggest a persons wages cannot be deducted.
For an employer to do that, I think they would have to suspect some kind of complicity between the loss and the employee,
But someone else driving off is not the fault of the employee

Our man in Havana

Unlawful deductions? I doubt that's legal.

Esel

Look at me! Don't look at me!

Is your real name Al Murray?

Voodoomelon

I personally enjoy the disgruntled looks from other drivers as I fill up 85 litres, wait your turn like everyone else. I always fill up in the same station and the wee one behind the counter always sparks up a chat so no complaints from me.

Stick to the same station and you'll be grand.

MugMugs

Newry road?

guttenberg

You think you got it bad OP, try doing it on a motorbike! My usual stations are grand with me filling up without removing the helmet and paying as usual(open the visor and have the money in hand before going instore) but there's a few that have either shouted over the tannoy/turned off the pump because I didn't remove the helmet. I haven't been back!

CiniO

Merch wrote: »

Can you provide some proof of that, I'd like to see this

I'm more inclined to believe that a contract cannot write out rights under the law

I'm not 100% certain if this is the most up to date

(c) in the case of a deduction, the employee has given his prior consent in writing to it.


(2) An employer shall not make a deduction from the wages of an employee in respect of—


(a) any act or omission of the employee

that seems to suggest a persons wages cannot be deducted.
For an employer to do that, I think they would have to suspect some kind of complicity between the loss and the employee,
But someone else driving off is not the fault of the employee

Simple solution then.
Contract can say that employee is getting minimum wage, and provided there is no petrol stolen in given week, he will get a bonus on top of that.
All legal.

CiniO

The Royal Scam wrote: »

Cinio, there is nothing messy about it at all, seriously lad, your thinking too much about it.
As you may have noticed that all during the boom most indepentent fuel providers went to the wall , now the big 5 fuel suppliers are using the most up to date technology and systems . I use a company fuel card and honestly would not know when I go in to pay what amount is at the pump, I regulary get asked for my reg to confirm which transaction was mine as I normally park up after filling up.

As I said - in area where I live (Mayo) no one drives off the pump before paying. I thought it was natural, as in Poland (where I'm originally from) this is normal behaviour, and if you do drive off, this will be indication that you are planning a theft.
Also no petrol station in Poland would turn on the pump for next customer before previous amount was paid. I've seen it the same way in nearly every other country in EU. (and it's surely not because they lack the most modern technology).

But sure possibly - Dublin might be different.

Cinio, I worked in a Texaco station in 1999, there was nothing stopping staff starting pumps before previous fill was cleared, wasn't in Dublin either.

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

Can you provide some proof of that, I'd like to see this

I'm more inclined to believe that a contract cannot write out rights under the law

I'm not 100% certain if this is the most up to date

(c) in the case of a deduction, the employee has given his prior consent in writing to it.


(2) An employer shall not make a deduction from the wages of an employee in respect of—


(a) any act or omission of the employee

that seems to suggest a persons wages cannot be deducted.
For an employer to do that, I think they would have to suspect some kind of complicity between the loss and the employee,
But someone else driving off is not the fault of the employee

When you read that - why didn't you just keep reading? The clue is in the Unless (and following sub-sections) (It's also up to date if the consolidated legislation on Westlaw is to be believed.)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/act/pub/0025/index.html

Voodoomelon

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I personally enjoy the disgruntled looks from other drivers as I fill up 85 litres, wait your turn like everyone else. I always fill up in the same station and the wee one behind the counter always sparks up a chat so no complaints from me.

Stick to the same station and you'll be grand.

Maxol Avenue road. Why, who's in the newry road stations?

166man

challengemaster wrote: »

You're watched in just about every shop, the difference is most garages won't have a dedicated security person (or anyone bar till staff) to keep an eye on things. In Tesco, Dunnes, etc etc, there's always security keeping an eye either themselves or with store cameras.

People steal things, and that includes fuel. And that's only going to get worse over the next few years tbh. That's why there's a need for it. And I wouldn't be surprised if the store manager is telling staff to be vigilant keeping an eye.

I think you're making a big deal out of nothing tbh. If you want to keep the "I don't like being watched while I'm spending money" attitude, forget about going into shops...

I know people are watched in just about every shop, I'm not an idiot, my main point being how obvious it was. If I'm in Dunnes and doing a big weekly shop, you can guarantee that that they are watching alright, but at least it's not as obvious as staring in your face. If you got treated like that in a store I'm sure you wouldn't be back anytime soon.

If I'm paying for something can the person behind the till at least not look away every 2 seconds so I can make the transaction quickly?

You seem to have missed the part where I said, I understand fuel theft is common, but if I go into Brown Thomas to buy a €60 shirt, I don't get a security guard tagging alone behind me, staring at me. Fair enough I'm sure they keep watch but still,

I should really have a local filling station but I tend to just stop wherever and whenever I need fuel.

MugMugs

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Maxol Avenue road. Why, who's in the newry road stations?

Lass in the Grand Prix shop on Newry road is quite nice..... Must check that Maxol

Chris_Heilong

OP, you are being watch everywhere you go, cameras on the street and everytime you enter a shop. Security usually have a control room full of screens and can watch the store from multiple angles. Anyone can be a thief and it would be silly of the business to turn a blind eye and hope no one will rob from them. The only time I feel uncomfortable is when I need to go with my wife into one of them clothes shops and the security guard seems to follow us about for a time but again I understand the need to have these people.

Del2005

166man wrote: »

I know people are watched in just about every shop, I'm not an idiot, my main point being how obvious it was. If I'm in Dunnes and doing a big weekly shop, you can guarantee that that they are watching alright, but at least it's not as obvious as staring in your face. If you got treated like that in a store I'm sure you wouldn't be back anytime soon.

If I'm paying for something can the person behind the till at least not look away every 2 seconds so I can make the transaction quickly?

You seem to have missed the part where I said, I understand fuel theft is common, but if I go into Brown Thomas to buy a €60 shirt, I don't get a security guard tagging alone behind me, staring at me. Fair enough I'm sure they keep watch but still,

I should really have a local filling station but I tend to just stop wherever and whenever I need fuel.

The €60 shirt in BTs has a tag so you can't take it out the door and countless cameras watching your every move.

Petrol stations by there nature can't secure their product and it's easy for people to leave without paying, or the more common method is fill up with fuel, buy a bar and leave. The staff are just trying to protect their jobs, too many drive off will shut a place down, by making sure they know who's got fuel and who hasn't.

Supergurrier

Perfect Choice wrote: »

A lot of employers will deduct a percentage of the staffs wages if there is a drive of, that might be the reason they where keeping a close eye on you OP.

When i was younger and working in a Statoil this was the case, and i know of some places that still do it to young members of staff who don't know any better

Shurrre when i pull up and fill 80 quid i do get worried looks too especially when i sit in the car after to get my wallet, once had a young lad come running out to which my responce was "Howya, tis fierce mild hah?" :pac:

Odysseus

166man wrote: »

Today, I did my weekly €50 petrol put into the car. I pulled into the forecourt and the minute I got out of the car, I was being watched by 3 different petrol attendants in the store. Now I am no thief and put the petrol in and paid in-store. I noticed as I was paying every few seconds the attendant would be glancing out the window and staring at whoever had just pulled in.

Now, petrol like anything else is a good that everyone buys, why is it that I (and indeed many others I'm sure) are made to feel as if we are being watched at every angle? Why can't I go into a petrol station and buy fuel the same way I go to Tesco and buy bread, without being made to feel uncomfortable?

It was only really today I noticed quite how annoying it is and won't be visiting that petrol station again. I do understand that there is the % of people who do drive off without paying but even still, it was too much for me.

What think ye fella's?

TRy it on a bike, some insist that you have to remove your hemlet before they will turn the pump on; other will only let you buy it if you pay first.

I alway drive away if that happens and give my money to someone else.

challengemaster

Odysseus wrote: »

TRy it on a bike, some insist that you have to remove your hemlet before they will turn the pump on; other will only let you buy it if you pay first.

I alway drive away if that happens and give my money to someone else.

Why though?

It makes sense from the shops point of view, if only for identification purposes. Similarly you wouldn't be let into a bank or post office wearing a helmet. And it's not like it's a new development either, so I don't see the problem.

From an outside view (I don't have a bike) I think it's pure ignorant to keep your helmet on.

Odysseus

challengemaster wrote: »

Why though?

It makes sense from the shops point of view, if only for identification purposes. Similarly you wouldn't be let into a bank or post office wearing a helmet. And it's not like it's a new development either, so I don't see the problem.

From an outside view (I don't have a bike) I think it's pure ignorant to keep your helmet on.

I will of course remove it before I enter the shop, unless it is late at night and I'm paying at the window. In order to fill up I have to turn off the engine, remove the keys from the ignition then open the tank lock. So it is not like I can just jump on and p!ss off.

As for paying for it before hand I like to fill me tank up, some of my bikes have petrol gauges some don't. I never know exactually how much will fill the tank. A few liters can make a big difference on a bike.

sealgaire

i used to work in a place where we'd have to write down every reg that came in and watch them in case they drove off.

166man

Supergurrier wrote: »

When i was younger and working in a Statoil this was the case, and i know of some places that still do it to young members of staff who don't know any better

Shurrre when i pull up and fill 80 quid i do get worried looks too especially when i sit in the car after to get my wallet, once had a young lad come running out to which my responce was "Howya, tis fierce mild hah?" :pac:

Exactly, somebody running out the door to me to presumably accuse me of fuel theft when I'm getting my money, would really really piss me off.

I remember being in a shop years ago with my mom and we bought whatever we bought and left like normal people do, seconds later the owner came running after us shouting down the road telling us to stop and come back and accused me of taking something. I had taken nothing. I have not been back there since, so what gives petrol stations the right to run out to the forecourt and behave like that?

challengemaster

You don't seem to be getting it.

You've just put a quantity of fuel into your car, and now you've hopped back into the car. Going out on a limb here, I don't think working in a petrol station gives you the ability to read minds. They have no idea why you've just hopped into your car again. Yes, it could be for something like getting money, but when a product is reasonably easy to steal and it has been stolen a number of times previously, the first thought isn't going to be "oh shure they're probably only getting money, it'll be grand". Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

As has already been mentioned, these types of things happen all too often. And if staff don't keep an eye out, it could eventually mean the loss of their job, which at the moment is quite a big deal. I'm sure you'd probably be doing the very same if your income was at risk.

I (and most people) would probably see it like airport security. If you've done nothing wrong or have nothing to hide, then why make a big deal over something so minuscule. There's plenty of things in life to get stressed about, I suggest for your own sake you get over this one.

Del2005

challengemaster wrote: »

Why though?

It makes sense from the shops point of view, if only for identification purposes. Similarly you wouldn't be let into a bank or post office wearing a helmet. And it's not like it's a new development either, so I don't see the problem.

From an outside view (I don't have a bike) I think it's pure ignorant to keep your helmet on.

Because they don't make people wearing these do it, so it's discrimination.

Merch

Not sure why people aren't made pay in advance

I used to use those pre pay machines at Tescos, been a while but at the time, not sure how these machines got broken but more and more you'd pull up to a pump and it'd have a handwritten sign saying "pay at till" with the buttons looking somewhat fcuked, maybe peoples frustration??
So I just stopped bothering as so many wouldnt be working, plus I may have wanted to pay by cash.
I suspect if there was some form of agreement between stations or wholesalers to have a pre pay facility, then maybe that would force people to use debit/credit cards as they probably wouldn't want to be arsed going in to pay cash and then fill up.

From the stations point of view, as I've heard the margin on fuel is low, this might make people less inclined to buy other things like milk and bread or whatever, so I'd say places that have a big turnover in other products wouldn't want to upgrade to such features?

Having said that, I noticed a Topaz station which does have the pre pay facility, whether people use it or not, I dont know?

monkeypants

Taking off a helmet also means that they have to remove gloves first. Motorcyclists who wear glasses (not me) will also have a problem with their glasses fogging when taking helmets off. I understand that some people steal petrol in the same way that some people will steal anything, but treating your paying customers like thieves will just piss them off. I often drive off rather than use a prepay pump.

By the way, if I got back into my car after a fill and someone came running out, I'd be puzzled. All he/she can do is take my registration, which I presume the cameras already have. They can't stop me; I'm in a car.

monkeypants

monkeypants wrote: »

............. All he/she can do is take my registration, which I presume the cameras already have. They can't stop me; I'm in a car.

Of those who drive off without paying I would think most wouldn't do so if challenged, only a minority would reckon they can't be stopped as they're in a car. Also the "I just forgot" excuse would be less plausible than usual.

I wouldn't discount that the staff may have been taking the p1ss out of the OP, boring shift in a service station............... let's take the mickey out of the next gnome who comes in, you never know.

NewApproach

My local place recently commenced operating prepayment for all fuel sales. I have not used the place since.

Stheno

NewApproach wrote: »

My local place recently commenced operating prepayment for all fuel sales. I have not used the place since.

Why? I really like that system?

dgt

NewApproach wrote: »

My local place recently commenced operating prepayment for all fuel sales. I have not used the place since.

A lot of stations in the north are prepay only

NewApproach

Stheno wrote: »

Why? I really like that system?

Mainly because it is inconvenient. I only ever fill my car up, I don't know how much it will cost and don't want to have to go back in a second time for change.

Secondly, it gives a vibe of 'our customers are theives' from my perspective, and I don't like that.

166man

monkeypants wrote: »

Taking off a helmet also means that they have to remove gloves first. Motorcyclists who wear glasses (not me) will also have a problem with their glasses fogging when taking helmets off. I understand that some people steal petrol in the same way that some people will steal anything, but treating your paying customers like thieves will just piss them off. I often drive off rather than use a prepay pump.

By the way, if I got back into my car after a fill and someone came running out, I'd be puzzled. All he/she can do is take my registration, which I presume the cameras already have. They can't stop me; I'm in a car.

That's what I meant in the OP, something that I maybe didn't explain well, the idea of being treated like a thief the minute you walk into a filling station. It did piss me off, hence starting the thread wondering if any others felt the same.

RoverJames wrote: »

Of those who drive off without paying I would think most wouldn't do so if challenged, only a minority would reckon they can't be stopped as they're in a car. Also the "I just forgot" excuse would be less plausible than usual.

I wouldn't discount that the staff may have been taking the p1ss out of the OP, boring shift in a service station............... let's take the mickey out of the next gnome who comes in, you never know.

I'd doubt that seeing as I was in a queue of people and each and every person was treated the same. I think it's piss poor customer service to be honest.

Stheno

NewApproach wrote: »

Mainly because it is inconvenient. I only ever fill my car up, I don't know how much it will cost and don't want to have to go back in a second time for change.

Secondly, it gives a vibe of 'our customers are theives' from my perspective, and I don't like that.

I like it from the perspective that I can choose how much I want to put in, pay in advance, move off the forecourt and go in and get fags/coffee/a snack/sandwich if I need to without inconveniencing other motorists.

I tend to fill the car in bursts of €50 which will work for most journeys, for longer ones I'm going to stop anyway to have a break so I can refill if I need to.

challengemaster

Pretty much every petrol station in the US has a prepay option, but IIRC it's a case of put in the card/swipe, fill as much as you want, and then it processes payment.

Why that can't be implemented here, I don't know. Hell of a lot more convenient too.

NewApproach

Stheno wrote: »

I like it from the perspective that I can choose how much I want to put in, pay in advance, move off the forecourt and go in and get fags/coffee/a snack/sandwich if I need to without inconveniencing other motorists.

I tend to fill the car in bursts of €50 which will work for most journeys, for longer ones I'm going to stop anyway to have a break so I can refill if I need to.

I usually fill up, and if there is cars waiting to use the pumps I'd then move the car elsewhere freeing up the pump before going in to pay.

Stheno

challengemaster wrote: »

Pretty much every petrol station in the US has a prepay option, but IIRC it's a case of put in the card/swipe, fill as much as you want, and then it processes payment.

Why that can't be implemented here, I don't know. Hell of a lot more convenient too.

That actually sounds sensible.

My experience here is of putting in the amount in advance. Essentially what you are talking about is having a POS machine integrated into the pumps which should be feasible.

Merch

monkeypants wrote: »

Taking off a helmet also means that they have to remove gloves first. Motorcyclists who wear glasses (not me) will also have a problem with their glasses fogging when taking helmets off. I understand that some people steal petrol in the same way that some people will steal anything, but treating your paying customers like thieves will just piss them off. I often drive off rather than use a prepay pump.

By the way, if I got back into my car after a fill and someone came running out, I'd be puzzled. All he/she can do is take my registration, which I presume the cameras already have. They can't stop me; I'm in a car.

Have heard of one case where a lad jumped on the bonnet as the guy was driving off, I wonder would they be prepared to knock someone down for a fill of petrol?
Personally I dont see the issue, if they are getting robbed and they ask/tell their staff to be vigilant then can you blame them?

166man

166man wrote: »

............ I pulled into the forecourt and the minute I got out of the car, I was being watched by 3 different petrol attendants in the store.....................

166man wrote: »

.......................
I'd doubt that seeing as I was in a queue of people and each and every person was treated the same. I think it's piss poor customer service to be honest.

Those attendants should become linesmen if they're as observant as you reckon they were

Stheno

166man wrote: »

That's what I meant in the OP, something that I maybe didn't explain well, the idea of being treated like a thief the minute you walk into a filling station. It did piss me off, hence starting the thread wondering if any others felt the same.

I'd doubt that seeing as I was in a queue of people and each and every person was treated the same. I think it's piss poor customer service to be honest.

Essentially you are a well armed thief. They cannot security tag the petrol, and you have a high powered vehicle to drive off quicker than they could catch you.

If they've had enough drivebys they are going to be suspicious the margin on fuel is low so they love people like me who go in get tea/a sandwich/pastry/fags/the lotto but a pure fuelie is low margin.

A drive off is a major loss.

monkeypants

NewApproach wrote: »

My local place recently commenced operating prepayment for all fuel sales. I have not used the place since.

Upon reflection, I probably wouldn't mind prepaying if I could do it at the pump rather than queueing at a till. The Applegreen pumps on the M1 used to have this facility.

Stheno

monkeypants wrote: »

Upon reflection, I probably wouldn't mind prepaying if I could do it at the pump rather than queueing at a till. The Applegreen pumps on the M1 used to have this facility.

They did, on my frequent trips to Belfast, I used enjoy it in the early morning, then they stopped it

166man

Stheno wrote: »

Essentially you are a well armed thief. They cannot security tag the petrol, and you have a high powered vehicle to drive off quicker than they could catch you.

If they've had enough drivebys they are going to be suspicious the margin on fuel is low so they love people like me who go in get tea/a sandwich/pastry/fags/the lotto but a pure fuelie is low margin.

A drive off is a major loss.

Yeah of course fuel theft is an issue and I kind of have acknowledged that about 5 times at this stage, but if drive-offs are so common something else needs to be done rather than having the staff staring at each and every person who drives and leaves the forecourt.

RoverJames wrote: »

Those attendants should become linesmen if they're as observant as you reckon they were

Well I noticed them as I drove in, and then each person in front of me in the queue was treated the same as I was. I just thought it was odd behaviour.

If a station is struggling with drive-offs then they need to implement a plan to eradicate that and that's something for them to decide, not the paying customer. They shouldn't be doing this at the expense of customer service in my opinion.

I don't care if it's petrol I'm buying or a loaf of bread, I like to be treated normally, ie not like a thief when I'm making a purchase.

jmorrisey

NewApproach wrote: »

Mainly because it is inconvenient. I only ever fill my car up, I don't know how much it will cost and don't want to have to go back in a second time for change.

You get better fuel economy if your car is half full;)

challengemaster

166man wrote: »

Yeah of course fuel theft is an issue and I kind of have acknowledged that about 5 times at this stage, but if drive-offs are so common something else needs to be done rather than having the staff staring at each and every person who drives and leaves the forecourt.

Like what? Numerous people on here have said they'll drive away rather than prepay at a station. So that's out the window. Any bright ideas yourself? Or are you just going to continue saying "Do something else".

Well I noticed them as I drove in, and then each person in front of me in the queue was treated the same as I was. I just thought it was odd behaviour.

If a station is struggling with drive-offs then they need to implement a plan to eradicate that and that's something for them to decide, not the paying customer. They shouldn't be doing this at the expense of customer service in my opinion.

I don't care if it's petrol I'm buying or a loaf of bread, I like to be treated normally, ie not like a thief when I'm making a purchase.

You've said it yourself, you're being treated the same as everyone else. So you're really making an issue over nothing now.

Stheno

challengemaster wrote: »

Like what? Numerous people on here have said they'll drive away rather than prepay at a station. So that's out the window. Any bright ideas yourself? Or are you just going to continue saying "Do something else".




You've said it yourself, you're being treated the same as everyone else. So you're really making an issue over nothing now.

My big thing is that I never notice this, and I buy fuel in some dodgy areas.!

NewApproach

jmorrisey wrote: »

You get better fuel economy if your car is half full;)

A tiny bit, however I also value my time and would rather make as few stops to fill my car with diesel as possible. The time and hassle saved is worth waaaay more than whatever pathetic bit of fuel savings I'd make is!

Voodoomelon

Stheno wrote: »

I like it from the perspective that I can choose how much I want to put in, pay in advance, move off the forecourt and go in and get fags/coffee/a snack/sandwich if I need to without inconveniencing other motorists.

So you prefer parking, paying, filling up and then moving, to parking, filling up, paying, and moving?

It's the same difference to the guy stuck behind you.

166man

challengemaster wrote: »

Like what? Numerous people on here have said they'll drive away rather than prepay at a station. So that's out the window. Any bright ideas yourself? Or are you just going to continue saying "Do something else".




You've said it yourself, you're being treated the same as everyone else. So you're really making an issue over nothing now.

What do you mean like what? I just said it's hardly my own job to find solutions to people driving off without paying is it? And also, this job of ''staring'' at customers isn't working very well if fuel theft's are on the rise. Something will need to be done I'm sure.

As a quick idea off the top of my head, could a barrier system work here, as in you drive up take the ticket and then enter the forecourt, then stamp it as you leave the store or scan on the prepayment machine and up goes the barrier? I don't know really I'm just throwing an idea out there.

Also, I know I was treated the same as everyone else, I'm disagreeing with how I was and surely the others, were treated. It's not rocket science, I thought that their customer service was sh1t and the way I was treated was very poor, not that complicated really.

challengemaster

166man wrote: »

What do you mean like what? I just said it's hardly my own job to find solutions to people driving off without paying is it? And also, this job of ''staring'' at customers isn't working very well if fuel theft's are on the rise. Something will need to be done I'm sure.

As a quick idea off the top of my head, could a barrier system work here, as in you drive up take the ticket and then enter the forecourt, then stamp it as you leave the store or scan on the prepayment machine and up goes the barrier? I don't know really I'm just throwing an idea out there.

Also, I know I was treated the same as everyone else, I'm disagreeing with how I was and surely the others, were treated. It's not rocket science, I thought that their customer service was sh1t and the way I was treated was very poor, not that complicated really.

Right.....

So instead of having the staff keep an eye on you, you'd prefer to be locked into the forecourt by barrier systems until you've paid.

And this is somehow making you feel less like a thief....

Our man in Havana

Just have the French system where you enter through a one way system and get your fuel and you pay at a toll booth type set up on the way out which is a barrier gate.

Like it or not prepay will become the norm here sooner or later.