Drink Driving

Reloc8

figs666 wrote: »

i was bagged 3 times in my life over the limit and i only had one conviction against me , with i appealled , and your right i have a drink problem , I'VE 2 HANDS AND ONLY 1 MOUTH .LOL

This is going to go well.

Michael Weston

I was caught myself in my younger years, the duration of the ban will depend on your blood alcohol level, its a gradient scale the judge will use this to determine your ban.

Get used to the idea it will be published as most local papers publish the court briefs the fine will be a couple of hundred euro approx if its just a standard case.

There are certain procedures the gardai must follow upon your arrest regarding observation and other stuff, when you get your summons it might be worth your while consulting a barrister to see if you can find a technicality.

Now this bit is important, learn from your mistake realise you were stupid to do that and never repeat it, you are not going to have a criminal conviction most likely an endorsement on your licence.

Dont worry what other people think I doubt anyone will be as hard on you as you are being on yourself, unfortunately you are on a well travelled road, try get the head up and keep going.

Also if they didnt offer you the third option of a breath test at the station you wont be convicted its your right to have that option.

Good luck with it buddy

Michael Weston

ken wrote: »

Well this Judge in the Carlow district a few years ago gave this penalty to damn near everyone convicted of drink driving. 2 years of the road,£xxx fine and 10 AA meetings. I remember my uncle had to have a note to say he'd been to 10 meetings before he applied for his license back.

I thought this was the done thing everywhere.That's why i suggested the op start AA herself.

That same judge gave Carlow the statistic of the county with most people per capita seeking help for alcohol and drug abuse for four years running by insisting people complete this course. Bloody Mary, people going for a slash in a ditch ended up on that course as a result of her obsession with adding it on to every judgement.

josealdo

Michael Weston wrote: »

when you get your summons it might be worth your while consulting a barrister to see if you can find a technicality.




Also if they didnt offer you the third option of a breath test at the station you wont be convicted its your right to have that option.

Fight this , the cops have a procedure to follow , if there is a chink in the chain you'll get off . Best of luck with it . it will cost more to get a barrister but that will stop you getting in behind the wheel drunk again , and believe me you could have been worse off , a friend of mine 32 years old is like an old man after a drunk driver t boned him on his motorbike . you got off lightly , DON'T LOSE THE LESSON .NEVER DRINK DRIVE AGAIN .

ResearchWill

Michael Weston wrote: »

I was caught myself in my younger years, the duration of the ban will depend on your blood alcohol level, its a gradient scale the judge will use this to determine your ban.

Get used to the idea it will be published as most local papers publish the court briefs the fine will be a couple of hundred euro approx if its just a standard case.

There are certain procedures the gardai must follow upon your arrest regarding observation and other stuff, when you get your summons it might be worth your while consulting a barrister to see if you can find a technicality.

Now this bit is important, learn from your mistake realise you were stupid to do that and never repeat it, you are not going to have a criminal conviction most likely an endorsement on your licence.

Dont worry what other people think I doubt anyone will be as hard on you as you are being on yourself, unfortunately you are on a well travelled road, try get the head up and keep going.

Also if they didnt offer you the third option of a breath test at the station you wont be convicted its your right to have that option.

Good luck with it buddy

Bold bit incorrect,

12.— (1) Where a person is arrested under section 4 (8), 5 (10), 6 (4), 9 (4), 10 (7) or 11 (5) of this Act or section 52(3), 53(5), 106(3A) or 112(6) of the Principal Act, a member of the Garda Síochána may, at a Garda Síochána station, do either or both of the following—

(a) require the person to provide, by exhaling into an apparatus for determining the concentration of alcohol in the breath, 2 specimens of his or her breath and may indicate the manner in which he or she is to comply with the requirement,

(b) require the person either—

(i) to permit a designated doctor or designated nurse to take from the person a specimen of his or her blood, or

(ii) at the option of the person, to provide for the designated doctor or designated nurse a specimen of his or her urine,


At the members option he may require you to do A or B or in fact both A being breath, B being blood or urine.

Michael Weston

ResearchWill wrote: »

Bold bit incorrect,

12.— (1) Where a person is arrested under section 4 (8), 5 (10), 6 (4), 9 (4), 10 (7) or 11 (5) of this Act or section 52(3), 53(5), 106(3A) or 112(6) of the Principal Act, a member of the Garda Síochána may, at a Garda Síochána station, do either or both of the following—

(a) require the person to provide, by exhaling into an apparatus for determining the concentration of alcohol in the breath, 2 specimens of his or her breath and may indicate the manner in which he or she is to comply with the requirement,

(b) require the person either—

(i) to permit a designated doctor or designated nurse to take from the person a specimen of his or her blood, or

(ii) at the option of the person, to provide for the designated doctor or designated nurse a specimen of his or her urine,


At the members option he may require you to do A or B or in fact both A being breath, B being blood or urine.

i think the fact the machine was broken would be enough encouragement for me to seek the advice of a barrister, I bet there is a loophole there somewhere. Thanks for correcting me though.

josealdo

The machine was broke . jesus h christ . you'll get off with it . get a barrister onto this pronto .

ResearchWill

Michael Weston wrote: »

i think the fact the machine was broken would be enough encouragement for me to seek the advice of a barrister, I bet there is a loophole there somewhere. Thanks for correcting me though.

There is a case on that exact issue, I'll try and find it, but in brief they can even transfer you to another station if the machine is broken.

Independent12

Thanks the replies. I don't think the machine was broken. It just didn't take the reading properly, they said it was because the ambient concentration in room was too high, they said that could have been from person in there last.
I can't eat or sleep, think I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. I know I deserve it.

Stheno

Michael Weston wrote: »

That same judge gave Carlow the statistic of the county with most people per capita seeking help for alcohol and drug abuse for four years running by insisting people complete this course. Bloody Mary, people going for a slash in a ditch ended up on that course as a result of her obsession with adding it on to every judgement.

Wasn't the same judge who handed out monstrous fines in Portlaoise Court for motoring offences who lost a child to a motor accident was it?

Just read she has retired.

Max Power

bootybouncer wrote: »

talking about trying to worm out of it......................lad you have a serious drink problem, get help and knock it on the head completely.............................. do you time on the side lines and pay your fine, move on with your life

God have mercy on us all

ResearchWill

Independent12 wrote: »

Thanks the replies. I don't think the machine was broken. It just didn't take the reading properly, they said it was because the ambient concentration in room was too high, they said that could have been from person in there last.
I can't eat or sleep, think I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. I know I deserve it.

It's an Ambient fail, speak to a good road traffic solicitor.

Independent12

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's an Ambient fail, speak to a good road traffic solicitor.

What does that mean? The blood test will decide it won't it

ResearchWill

Independent12 wrote: »

What does that mean? The blood test will decide it won't it

There may if the matter goes to court be an argument to be made. I am not nor will I give advice but if you get a summons I would just run the whole matter by a solicitor. I may be totally wrong there maybe no issue.

Michael Weston

Independent12 wrote: »

What does that mean? The blood test will decide it won't it

Dont worry about that for now, you have to present your best case the guards have the blood sample thats their case. As Will has pointed out you need to get a good solicitor to make yours. You would be surprised how much difference it can make. I pleaded not guilty four times on the grounds that there was a test case in the high court disputing the validity of the breathalyser as you dont get an independent sample. In the end the case lost and so did I but without getting your hopes up too much I fancy your chances.

Michael Weston

Stheno wrote: »

Wasn't the same judge who handed out monstrous fines in Portlaoise Court for motoring offences who lost a child to a motor accident was it?

Just read she has retired.

In my case it was Judge M Martin. She is but a distant memory now

Stheno

Michael Weston wrote: »

In my case it was Judge M Martin. She is but a distant memory now

My parents ran a shop in Portlaoise. My mother was in the VdP

The amount of people in the eighties coming in with donations of £300 plus (including a few "celebrities") for motoring offences was staggering.

The "locals" tended to behave for fear of finding themselves up against that judge.

@ OP you need to wait to get the results of the test, keep all of your notes (if you've not written down what happened do it now) and find a good solicitor.

Michael Weston

Independent12 wrote: »

Thanks the replies. I don't think the machine was broken. It just didn't take the reading properly, they said it was because the ambient concentration in room was too high, they said that could have been from person in there last.
I can't eat or sleep, think I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. I know I deserve it.

Again I know it is hard to see it now but this is not as bad as you think, nobody is hurt try not to let this affect your health it will sort itself out one way or another and you will move past it trust me.

Michael Weston

Stheno wrote: »

My parents ran a shop in Portlaoise. My mother was in the VdP

The amount of people in the eighties coming in with donations of £300 plus (including a few "celebrities") for motoring offences was staggering.

The "locals" tended to behave for fear of finding themselves up against that judge.

@ OP you need to wait to get the results of the test, keep all of your notes (if you've not written down what happened do it now) and find a good solicitor.

The celebrity bit intrigues me...

Bloodwing

Independent12 wrote: »

What does that mean? The blood test will decide it won't it

Ambient fail means the machine detected alcohol in the air in the room. Normally this happens if you're sitting too close to the machine when it's going through it's self test stage. During the ambient check the machine draws in air from the room through the breath tube, if the ambient check comes back at anything other than zero the test stops and the machine won't go any further. If anything it shows the machine was working correctly.

OP you need to stop worrying about this. There's still a lot of things that need to happen before you're off the road including the results coming back over or under and you pleading/ being found guilty or not, and a lot of judges will put a stay on the ban to allow you get things in order. You''re not going to receive a letter in a couple of weeks telling you you're off the road. You made a mistake, we've all done that at some point. The important thing is to learn to never make the same mistake again and it certainly sounds like you have.

Independent12

Michael Weston wrote: »

you are not going to have a criminal conviction most likely an endorsement on your licence.

From my research to date a drink driving conviction is a criminal record for life This effects so much from employment to insurance to travel and emigration.

Procrastastudy

Independent12 wrote: »

From my research to date a drink driving conviction is a criminal record for life This effects so much from employment to insurance to travel and emigration.

Hopefully the Spent Convictions Bill will come in and it will drop off your record.

ResearchWill

Independent12 wrote: »

From my research to date a drink driving conviction is a criminal record for life This effects so much from employment to insurance to travel and emigration.

The employment issue not so much here, but in UK it will have serious effect, it will be disclosed in any Garda vetting here. Yes insurance will go up quite a lot but usually only have to disclose for upto 5 or 7 years, also makes renting a car a pain.

Travel and emigration no, most countries exclude Road Traffic Offences including drink driving from any disclosure requirement. The US is funny, if you ask embassy here and UK information is it must be disclosed I believe, but US law on this matter from my little research is that drink driving is not a crime of moral terpitude, so does not need to be disclosed.

dickwod1

Some things that may happen in your favor are ... your found not to be over the limit - or the sample gets contaminated - or the Garda doesn't show up in court - or there are legal things that weren't adhered too - or the judge strikes the case out - etc. etc.

This is not the end of the world, try to relax and remain positive as hard as that is to do.

ResearchWill

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Hopefully the Spent Convictions Bill will come in and it will drop off your record.

Not so lucky, spent convictions bill does not cover any disclosure to another country as required by that country, nor does it cover Garda vetting in relation to certain employments.

solas111

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Get yourself a good solicitor who will know how to deal with all of the legal stuff. You have little or no control over the outcome and worrying yourself sick won’t make it any better. Try to accept what is coming, whatever way it works out. Whatever happens you will get through it with the right attitude.

If you believe in the spiritual stuff, the following may help:

“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference”.

Max Power

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Hopefully the Spent Convictions Bill will come in and it will drop off your record.

What is this?

Lmklad

Independent12 wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies. Definitely not an alcoholic so won't take the advice on AA. Won't be drinking for the foreseeable future though as I'm so ashamed of myself the thought of having a drink makes me feel sick. Can't even eat I'm so worried.

Like others have said I hope you were able to calm down. As you are feeling so guilty about it admitting that it court might help you move on, however that is up to you. Deffo get a solicitor, they know what to say and how to say it plus they won't be nervous in court. A contested case can go on for months, a guilty plea can be over in five mutes. You can ask for a stay of up to 6 months and you can apply for your licence to be reinstated after half the time is served. The results will really decide it all for you.

ResearchWill

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

What is this?

This http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/3412/b34112s.pdf

johnwest288

Barrister

Gary Doyle Order

Fight it,:cool:

Get yourself Organized the sooner the better.

hierro

There is many the good piece of advice here but a lot of crap too.

As some have said. This is a cheap lesson, no matter the outcome. No one is hurt or killed. It's good that your remorseful about the whole thing.

Not many people know or have experience in front of a judge. The most important thing I believe for you is to employ a good solicitor who is practicing in the district court for which you summoned. If its a city court, this isn't as important. But it's it's a country court, I think it is. Judges can be more peculiar in these places and they often have relationships of sorts built up with those whom practice in these courts. The solicitors know the Gardai and how capable they are or not as the case maybe. They also have a better feel of how fines and the different plea's might go.

You have a relatively unique occurrence in your case with the non functioning machine. It should be challenged at least.

johnwest288

Independent12 wrote: »

From my research to date a drink driving conviction is a criminal record for life This effects so much from employment to insurance to travel and emigration.

Is it no a "Traffic offence" as opposed to "Criminal Offence"????

josealdo

hierro wrote: »

There is many the good piece of advice here but a lot of crap too.

As some have said. This is a cheap lesson, no matter the outcome. No one is hurt or killed. It's good that your remorseful about the whole thing.

Not many people know or have experience in front of a judge. The most important thing I believe for you is to employ a good solicitor who is practicing in the district court for which you summoned. If its a city court, this isn't as important. But it's it's a country court, I think it is. Judges can be more peculiar in these places and they often have relationships of sorts built up with those whom practice in these courts. The solicitors know the Gardai and how capable they are or not as the case maybe. They also have a better feel of how fines and the different plea's might go.

You have a relatively unique occurrence in your case with the non functioning machine. It should be challenged at least.

+1 , well said heirro

Independent12

johnwest288 wrote: »

Is it no a "Traffic offence" as opposed to "Criminal Offence"????

No, a drink driving conviction is a criminal offence :-(

Pat Mustard

johnwest288 wrote: »

Is it no a "Traffic offence" as opposed to "Criminal Offence"????

Technically, anybody who is convicted of speeding has a 'criminal record'.

Motoring offences are crimes; criminal offences. Technically, a person will have a criminal record after a conviction.

However, they are not generally regarded as being as serious as crimes such as murder, drug crime, crimes of dishonesty, etc, obviously.

The biggest problem for the OP is the mandatory diaqualification from driving. Apart from that, I haven't heard of many road traffic offences causing great difficulties for people getting jobs or getting visas to go abroad.

finbarrk

johnwest288 wrote: »

Barrister

Gary Doyle Order

Fight it,:cool:

Get yourself Organized the sooner the better.

Thats the way to go. If you fail that blood test.

Reloc8

Also pay the barrister a **** load of money.

Just sayin.

Procrastastudy

Reloc8 wrote: »

Also pay the barrister a **** load of money.

Just sayin.

Who upset Reloc8? Or did he come to that realisation that many of us have at one point or another time spent here could probably allow any one of us to get a degree or cure cancer.

Stheno

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Who upset Reloc8? Or did he come to that realisation that many of us have at one point or another time spent here could probably allow any one of us to get a degree or cure cancer.

If you don't pay your barrister they might advocate you being sent to jail?

Pat Mustard

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Who upset Reloc8? Or did he come to that realisation that many of us have at one point or another time spent here could probably allow any one of us to get a degree or cure cancer.

Perhaps he was just making an observation.

Drink driving cases are usually defended by solicitors at first instance in the District Court, so it is an additional cost to retain a barrister at that stage.

Solicitors often appear at the appeal to the Circuit Court as well, especially if it is an appeal against severity only.

Counsel tend to be instructed for an appeal from the District Court if it is against conviction and sentence.

EDIT: Seeing as Reloc8 has now closed his account, maybe you have a point!

Mansized Wreath

OP, you can fight if you wish but be prepared for a higher fine and to serve the full ban if you are found guilty. You need to be pretty iron clad you'll get off , hire a good sol and see what they say.

RockyTwoArms

Mansized Wreath wrote: »

OP, you can fight if you wish but be prepared for a higher fine and to serve the full ban if you are found guilty. You need to be pretty iron clad you'll get off , hire a good sol and see what they say.

Given the mandatory sentences for this offence have you any evidence that judges will exceed these if the case is challenged?

Mansized Wreath

RockyTwoArms wrote: »

Given the mandatory sentences for this offence have you any evidence that judges will exceed these if the case is challenged?

Judges won't exceed mandatory sentences,however I witnessed a judge in Richmond Court give a two year ban and a 2k fine to a guy who fought his case and lost. The next guy pled guilty and received a 2 year,1 day ban (the extra day was a loophole to apply for licience back when 2/3 of ban is up) along with a fine of I believe €600. She noted that anyone coming before her fighting drink driving cases and losing would receive little sympathy (the first guy asked for the extra day on his ban and was refused). That was back in 2008.

Pat Mustard

Mansized Wreath wrote: »

Judges won't exceed mandatory sentences,however I witnessed a judge in Richmond Court give a two year ban and a 2k fine to a guy who fought his case and lost. The next guy pled guilty and received a 2 year,1 day ban (the extra day was a loophole to apply for licience back when 2/3 of ban is up) along with a fine of I believe €600. She noted that anyone coming before her fighting drink driving cases and losing would receive little sympathy (the first guy asked for the extra day on his ban and was refused). That was back in 2008.

That is why people are allowed to appeal.

dazza21ie

The Mustard wrote: »

That is why people are allowed to appeal.

Unfortunately for some clients appeals are not an option as the additional cost of the appeal may very well outweight the potential savings in the reduced fine. Added to that there is not guarantee that a fine or disqualification will be reduced on appeal. Therefore people should weigh everything up before deciding whether to contest a charge.