Manchester City v Manchester United (KO 13:30 - SS1HD)

peterswellman

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Common sense would dicatate otherwise. Adebayor's actions in front of the Arsenal fans was wrong. Celebrate wherever you want but as a professional you should know that doing something like that has the simple intentions of getting a reaction. This statement does not in any way condone throwing anything at the player though.

Adebayor ran the entire length of the field to slide in front of them. That's a pretty gross example and obviously gonna get a reaction when you're as obvious as that.

DoctorGonzo08

peterswellman wrote: »

Adebayor ran the entire length of the field to slide in front of them. That's a pretty gross example and obviously gonna get a reaction when you're as obvious as that.

It doesn't make a difference how over the top it is or isn't. The intention is the same. It can't be one rule for one and another for somebody else. How do you draw a line to define when celebrating in front of opposition fans is not a good idea?

peterswellman

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

It doesn't make a difference how over the top it is or isn't. The intention is the same. It can't be one rule for one and another for somebody else. How do you draw a line to define when celebrating in front of opposition fans is not a good idea?

You think how antagonising you're to the crowd doesn't matter in terms of inciting fans? Ok mate.

There is a reason why Adebayor was fined and say Balotelli wasn't last year. Obviously it's a case by case basis.

SantryRed

"I have been a fan of Manchester City Football club all my life and I have been a season ticket holder for three years and I attend the games with my father. I have had the same seat in the section next to the away fans for those three years."

That part of the supporters statement made me laugh. Season ticket holder for three years. Fan for three years more like :pac:

DoctorGonzo08

peterswellman wrote: »

You think how antagonising you're to the crowd doesn't matter in terms of inciting fans? Ok mate.

There is a reason why Adebayor was fined and say Balotelli wasn't last year. Obviously it's a case by case basis.

It has an affect on how incited the crowd will get, yes, but that wasn't my argument. I said when celebrating in front of opposition fans, regardless of how extravagant you are, still has the intent to incite the crowd. I asked you at what point do you feel it becomes a bad idea? Is there the right amount of incitment?

Mitch Connor

niallo27 wrote: »

There is though, its incitement. Its could cause a riot on a highly charged day.

sure it is the womans fault she got raped, wearing those sexy clothes like that, she knew it would get the men riled up.

Drumpot

niallo27 wrote: »

There is though, its incitement. Its could cause a riot on a highly charged day.

I wouldnt want to say that these are trolling comments because they may just be an example of the double standard hypocrisy of the highest order that exists in the game . .

Most players whom score away from home celebrate and the players run to the edge of the pitch. If they are on the opposite end from their supporters they will celebrate on front of the home crowd . . United scored the winner away against a team that mauled us and pinched the title off us last seaso and hadnt been beaten in 2 years at home . . Its not like it wasnt a big deal!

Rio does the exact same thing, gets hit by a coin and now all of a sudden his actions are inciting riots, how is that any differant to what happens at away grounds every week when away teams score and celebrate the goal ? Why is it all of a sudden a bad thing now that a united player celebrates?

I was joking earlier when I put a post up saying that I wouldnt be surprised if the English FA started to take disciplinary proceedings against United and Ferdinand for upsetting home fans in away games (Chelsea and City) so much that the fans felt the need to get violent. .

Your comments highlight exactly why United fans get so defencive when being attacked. When united do something wrong or get a bad ref decision they are lambasted, when another club/fan/team/rref does something bad against us, we are lambasted. . The club cant do anything right in some peoples eyes . . People just take a view on topics as it suits their agenda against united , selective moral outrage. . (hence the ABU phrase constantly used) . .

jaykay74

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

It has an affect on how incited the crowd will get, yes, but that wasn't my argument. I said when celebrating in front of opposition fans, regardless of how extravagant you are, still has the intent to incite the crowd. I asked you at what point do you feel it becomes a bad idea? Is there the right amount of incitment?

Should you celebrate at all away from home in case you upset someone ?

Mitch Connor

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

It doesn't make a difference how over the top it is or isn't. The intention is the same. It can't be one rule for one and another for somebody else. How do you draw a line to define when celebrating in front of opposition fans is not a good idea?

So if i found out where you lived, called round, and punched you in the face, that would be ok - you are clearly trying to goad me with your signature - it surely can't be MY fault I can't control my anger.

DoctorGonzo08

Mitch Connor wrote: »

sure it is the womans fault she got raped, wearing those sexy clothes like that, she knew it would get the men riled up.

How did you come up with that analogy? Can you not follow the thread? Nobody is saying Rio deserved to get his eye split open, nor is anyone condoning players having stuff thrown at them. It was a simple point that celebrating in front of opposition fans incites the crowd.

Mitch Connor

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

How did you come up with that analogy? Can you not follow the thread? Nobody is saying Rio deserved to get his eye split open, nor is anyone condoning players having stuff thrown at them. It was a simple point that celebrating in front of opposition fans incites the crowd.

and wearing sexy clothes can get men excited - so the woman is seemingly partly to blame yeah?

DoctorGonzo08

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So if i found out where you lived, called round, and punched you in the face, that would be ok - you are clearly trying to goad me with your signature - it surely can't be MY fault I can't control my anger.

What on earth are you on about?

peterswellman

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

It has an affect on how incited the crowd will get, yes, but that wasn't my argument. I said when celebrating in front of opposition fans, regardless of how extravagant you are, still has the intent to incite the crowd. I asked you at what point do you feel it becomes a bad idea? Is there the right amount of incitment?

Celebrations that are just enjoying the moment with your teammates but there are some serious idiots out there that would probably feel angered by that.

kippy

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

How did you come up with that analogy? Can you not follow the thread? Nobody is saying Rio deserved to get his eye split open, nor is anyone condoning players having stuff thrown at them. It was a simple point that celebrating in front of opposition fans incites the crowd.

In that case there are incited crowds all over the shop at every match........

A portion of Professional Footballers are idiots, rich idiots very good at one particular thing, but idiots none the less. They should know that "over celebrating" is something that shouldn't be done, especially in a hostile atmosphere. They should also know however, that a small minority of the regular match going public are generally idiots as well.
Who is more in the wrong, the player or the "fan"?

homerjay2005

SantryRed wrote: »

Fan for three years more like :pac:

former Chelsea fan i would say.

Mitch Connor

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

What on earth are you on about?

The argument appears to be that inciting the crowd is a terrible thing, and (whether you care to admit it or not) you and others are attempting to mitigate the actions of some boozed up moronic scumbags by saying the United players celebrating in front of them is the cause of the problem.

The actions of the scumbags are the actions of scumbags, if you can't control yourself from attempting to injure people becuase of them celebrating a goal (or, as it happens, taking a corner kick) then you really have no place being outside of a padded and locked room.

DoctorGonzo08

jaykay74 wrote: »

Should you celebrate at all away from home in case you upset someone ?

It seems to be getting that touchy that someone would agree. I don't think there is any reason you can't celebrate with your teammates, but I think it has a different meaning if you run up to opposition fnas to celebrate.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and wearing sexy clothes can get men excited - so the woman is seemingly partly to blame yeah?

It still is a weird analogy, but I think I get what you are trying to say. You are still under the impression I am saying a player is to blame for getting something thrown at him. I have repeatadly said that is not the case. I was trying to comment on a seperate point as to inciting opposition fans. I repeat again, this is not the same thing as saying because someone incites a crowd, justifys an idiot throwing stuff at him.

DoctorGonzo08

peterswellman wrote: »

Celebrations that are just enjoying the moment with your teammates but there are some serious idiots out there that would probably feel angered by that.

I take your point on that. Unfornatly you'll never please everyone.

Mitch Connor

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

It seems to be getting that touchy that someone would agree. I don't think there is any reason you can't celebrate with your teammates, but I think it has a different meaning if you run up to opposition fnas to celebrate.



It still is a weird analogy, but I think I get what you are trying to say. You are still under the impression I am saying a player is to blame for getting something thrown at him. I have repeatadly said that is not the case. I was trying to comment on a seperate point as to inciting opposition fans. I repeat again, this is not the same thing as saying because someone incites a crowd, justifys an idiot throwing stuff at him.

Ok - forget the apportioning blame part of the argument completely - football, in general, will incite people. It is the nature of competive sports and the tribalistic nature of the game itself.

Scoring a goal probably got the fans pissed off too - should we ask players to stop scoring in away games, in case some people get angry and can't help trying to injure them?

If you want to go down a route of stopping things that could incite the crowd, it is a very slippy slope to the banning of football or crowds.

DoctorGonzo08

kippy wrote: »

In that case there are incited crowds all over the shop at every match........

A portion of Professional Footballers are idiots, rich idiots very good at one particular thing, but idiots none the less. They should know that "over celebrating" is something that shouldn't be done, especially in a hostile atmosphere. They should also know however, that a small minority of the regular match going public are generally idiots as well.
Who is more in the wrong, the player or the "fan"?

I would always side that the fan is to blame. We pay to go and watch the game not to try to injure the players we have just paid to see. Just think, as you have siad, professional players should know a little better than to give a reason for some of these idiots to kick off.

enda1

niallo27 wrote: »

There is though, its incitement. Its could cause a riot on a highly charged day.

Riots are caused by the fans, not the players. It's sad that you think a player can't celebrate on the field without 'causing' 'fans' to lose their temper. The usual problem with society not wanting to take the blame for their own actions...

kippy

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I would always side that the fan is to blame. We pay to go and watch the game not to try to injure the players we have just paid to see. Just think, as you have siad, professional players should know a little better than to give a reason for some of these idiots to kick off.

Being honest, the game would be pretty sh1t if players weren't allowed celebrate, which is what anyone putting any portion of blame on the players is condoning.
Fans who cant conduct themselves with some level of cop on at the match should be watching it on TV.

homerjay2005

a 9.8 from Yaya, he has had a few of those this season.

DoctorGonzo08

kippy wrote: »

Being honest, the game would be pretty sh1t if players weren't allowed celebrate, which is what anyone putting any portion of blame on the players is condoning.
Fans who cant conduct themselves with some level of cop on at the match should be watching it on TV.

I completely agree. I'm not putting blame on the player for what happened. I'm trying to be objective when this whole argument has started off as all the City fans are scum, and that it is just representative of the club. Topped off with claims that you never see this at Utd's ground.

It unfortunatley happens at every ground and it is a constant hardship that clubs try their best to mitigate against, but there are always yobs that get into the games regardless.

The_Kew_Tour

niallo27 wrote: »

There is though, its incitement. Its could cause a riot on a highly charged day.

BUT

HE

DID

NOT

CELEBRATE

WITH

HOME

FANS

ONLY

UNITED

FANS

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

a 9.8 from Yaya, he has had a few of those this season.

Bollocks.

Young into Silver position on the diving table now.;)

DoctorGonzo08

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

BUT

HE

DID

NOT

CELEBRATE

WITH

HOME

FANS

ONLY

UNITED

FANS

I thought his comment was in realtion to the general statement of there being nothing wrong with celebrating in front of opposition fans, regardless of wether Rio did it or not.

Mocha Joe

Players on both teams dive.
There are a minority of scumbags in both sets of fans.
Rio celebrated in front of Utd fans. Not his fault that some idiots threw coins.
Overall Utd just about deserved to win the game.

Close the thread now please.

niallo27

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

BUT

HE

DID

NOT

CELEBRATE

WITH

HOME

FANS

ONLY

UNITED

FANS

My comment had nothing to do with Rio or nothing to do with UTD football club.

The_Kew_Tour

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I thought his comment was in realtion to the general statement of there being nothing wrong with celebrating in front of opposition fans, regardless of wether Rio did it or not.

Yes, but sure I mean we could think of thousand things that would cause riots.

No need to worry about something that did not happen. What happened was totally different.

The_Kew_Tour

niallo27 wrote: »

My comment had nothing to do with Rio or nothing to do with UTD football club.

Pity you did not do the same yesterday then eh?;)

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Old/over-used gif, but my God some of the arguments in this thread are actually amazing.

EDIT: United won 3-2. I'm still amazed.

SlickRic

some of my thoughts on the game, Tevez, as well as Mancini's position.

http://slicksblog.wordpress.com/

MagicMarker

Yes, players should not celebrate in front of opposing fans. They should leave the stadium and celebrate out in the carpark instead.

RasTa

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I'm not trying to defend anybody. I'm simply pointing out that your story sounds like absolute bull, that's all.

P.S. Qudos for the excellent response. Rather than provide any information that makes an argument, you respond to a possible fictisous story with 'it did happen 100%.

Well I was with him when it happened, little bit over the top from Homer but he was stuck between the train getting a few boots into his face. It was however on the way to Wembley for the semi 2 seasons ago.

It was basically a fight with 6v4 45+ year olds who should have known better. Only started when City fans started singing Munich songs, weren't so brave two or three stops down when more United fans got on and some of the harder element took exception when they where told what they where singing.

Scuba Ste

curry-muff wrote: »

So the word is that City have removed the coin throwers season ticket. But he doesn't face a lifetime ban unless he is convicted of pitch encroachment in future.

Disgraceful imo. I'd hope that if any of our fans did the same they'd get a lifetime ban.

I pretty sure your word is wrong. That refers to the guy that ran onto the pitch.

Leiva

Roll out the Crerand, Roll out the Crerand for laughs....:pac:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2012/dec/10/rio-ferdinand-paddy-crerand-audio?CMP=twt_gu

curry-muff

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I pretty sure your word is wrong. That refers to the guy that ran onto the pitch.

Suppose that would make more sense, must have just read the article too quickly

jacool

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Bollocks.

Young into Silver position on the diving table now.;)

I have a few Young ones from yesterday to show he's still a contender.

The ref did well here not to give a free, but not well when he should have booked him methinks.

whatnext

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Anyone know how they enforce the bans? Is there anything to stop someone shaving/bleaching their hair, sticking on a pair of glasses and a hat and strolling on in?

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1595736_nine-people-charged-over-disorder-at-manchester-derby

There is obviously some legal grounding for it based on

Six City fans were charged:

Peter Harrison, 30, of Springfield Rd, Kearsley was charged with racially aggravated public order.
Matthew Stott, 21, of Southfields, Knutsford, was charged with pitch encroachment.
Christopher Johnson, 52, of Ancoats Lane, Alderley Edge was charged with pitch encroachment.
Warren Singh, 18, of Oakdale Drive, Heald Green, was charged with section 5 public order.
Nicholas Morley, 21, of Chapel Lane, Blackley, was charged with being drunk and disorderly.
Andrew Martin, 20, of Northdale Drive, Blackley was charged with being drunk and disorderly.
Three United fans were charged:

Sam Weatherby, 21, of Grant St, Farnworth, Bolton was charged with breach of a football banning order.
Philip O'Leary, 24, of Heysbank Rd, Disley, Stockport was charged with breach of a football banning order.
Christopher O'Neil, 22, of Swainsthorpe Drive, Harpurhey was charged with being drunk and disorderly.

lordgoat

whatnext wrote: »

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1595736_nine-people-charged-over-disorder-at-manchester-derby

There is obviously some legal grounding for it based on

Was anyone charged with being a little priss after the united celebrations?

niallo27

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, players should not celebrate in front of opposing fans. They should leave the stadium and celebrate out in the carpark instead.

Do people not understand the difference between celebrating a goal on the ptich with your own fans with a player running over deliberatly to within a couple of yards to celebrate in front of the opposing fans.

The_Kew_Tour

jacool wrote: »

I have a few Young ones from yesterday to show he's still a contender.

Well show them then. We need Gold spot back!:D

Drumpot

baz2009 wrote: »

Old/over-used gif, but my God some of the arguments in this thread are actually amazing.

EDIT: United won 3-2. I'm still amazed.

Its because they cant blame the ref, they have to find something else to vent their frustration . .

Chucky the tree

Leiva wrote: »

Roll out the Crerand, Roll out the Crerand for laughs....:pac:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2012/dec/10/rio-ferdinand-paddy-crerand-audio?CMP=twt_gu

Maybe in future they'll breathalyse him before letting him on.

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

Roll out the Crerand, Roll out the Crerand for laughs....:pac:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2012/dec/10/rio-ferdinand-paddy-crerand-audio?CMP=twt_gu

We have to give something back to your lot, we've been spoilt for laughs for a long time now...

The_Kew_Tour

Paddy Crerand is a absolute joke tbh.

Should be left no where near a Mic, never alone be on telly. The people who ask for his opinion are worse.

PhlegmyMoses

niallo27 wrote: »

Do people not understand the difference between celebrating a goal on the ptich with your own fans with a player running over deliberatly to within a couple of yards to celebrate in front of the opposing fans.

Out of interest from previous discussions with you, do you think that Ferguson's mind manipulation doesn't extend to Martin Atkinson? Bottled some big decisions yesterday and didn't seem to give a **** about how Fergie would perceive it.

The decisions that went against United yesterday - offside goal, no pen for Evra, Tevez inexplicably remaining on the pitch - were worse than the decisions in the Chelsea match that everyone seemed to be crying about.

bantee

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Paddy Crerand is a absolute joke tbh.

Should be left no where near a Mic, never alone be on telly. The people who ask for his opinion are worse.

Agreed. I cringe every time he's on MUTV and have to turn off after a few minutes. He is totally over the top in his bias for United and is horrendous to listen to commentating on matches.

He actually roars down the mic when a United player gives away a free "AWW THAT WAS NEVER A FOUL REF!!!" Embarrassment altogether. The co-commentator usually just lets him ramble away so he is used to getting away his rants.

RasTa

How can ye not love Paddy