Messi breaks Mullers record of 85 goals in a year.

GLaDOS

If the Zambian claim is shown to be true I don't see why Chitalu shouldn't have the record. Doesn't take away from Messi's achievement in the slightest.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

THFC wrote: »

People who spout this shíte are as bad as the people who only watch Sky imo.

The man's record, if real, can't be discredited just because it happened in a non-mainstream league.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

baz2009 wrote: »

The man's record, if real, can't be discredited just because it happened in a non-mainstream league.

Meh, the record isn't really important anyway, only people that would care are the people who are obsessed with Messi and the people who hate him. Record or no record, what he has done this year is phenomenal.

Reekwind

Ares wrote:

Have a bit of respect

This was the state of African football in the 1970s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYDXkVGpMpc

3hn2givr7mx1sc

THFC wrote: »

Meh, the record isn't really important anyway, only people that would care are the people who are obsessed with Messi and the people who hate him. Record or no record, what he has done this year is phenomenal.

That's wrong, tbh. It's an incredible record that any player would love to have. His 88 goals is ridiculous anyway, but considering he has won pretty much everything he can, nearly all that's left for him for personal satisfaction is these types of records.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

baz2009 wrote: »

That's wrong, tbh. It's an incredible record that any player would love to have. His 88 goals is ridiculous anyway, but considering he has won pretty much everything he can, nearly all that's left for him for personal satisfaction is these types of records.

I think his reaction him getting number 86 said it all really. Iniesta gave him the simplest of balls and Messi finished it from a difficult enough position. What he do, only give the credit to Iniesta. Didn't show any sign of recognising that he broke the record. I'm sure he was delighted and all that, but I'd say he cares a lot more about actual trophies rather than records.

Ares

Reekwind wrote: »

This was the state of African football in the 1970s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYDXkVGpMpc

A brilliantly ignorant post.

The player knew exactly what he was doing, Mwepu Illunga.

They're money for the tournament was being withheld and they were told they were going to die if they lost by more than three goals. He wanted to get sent off as a protest.

Also Morocco, an African team, in 1970 lost by a goal to West Germany and drew with Bulgaria. Some state.

In 1978 Tunisia drew with West Germany, hockeyed Mexico and lost by a goal to Poland. Again, some state African football was in.

Reekwind

baz2009 wrote: »

That's wrong, tbh. It's an incredible record that any player would love to have

In fairness, it is a nonsense record; football is measured in seasons, not calendar years. I don't think anyone had even heard of this record until Messi started approaching it. It's a sign of a fantastic player but not the most impressive record he's broken

Ares wrote:

The player knew exactly what he was doing, Mwepu Illunga.

They're money for the tournament was being withheld and they were told they were going to die if they lost by more than three goals. He wanted to get sent off as a protest

That's one interpretation. Not a very flattering one, holding a backroom shambles up as an excuse, but perhaps better than the conventional one

Also Morocco, an African team, in 1970 lost by a goal to West Germany and drew with Bulgaria. Some state.

They also got beaten 3-0 by Peru and finished bottom of their group. That's not a very convincing case as to the state of sub-Saharan football in the 70s

(Incidentally, in the qualifying campaign for that WC, Zambia failed to progress past the first stage due to that footballing powerhouse of Sudan)

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Ares wrote: »

A brilliantly ignorant post.

The player knew exactly what he was doing, Mwepu Illunga.

They're money for the tournament was being withheld and they were told they were going to die if they lost by more than three goals. He wanted to get sent off as a protest.

Also Morocco, an African team, in 1970 lost by a goal to West Germany and drew with Bulgaria. Some state.

In 1978 Tunisia drew with West Germany, hockeyed Mexico and lost by a goal to Poland. Again, some state African football was in.

And that win for Tunisia was an African team's first win at a World Cup, ever. That's Tunisia. Yeh can only imagine the state of things in Zambia, they haven't even qualified for a World Cup yet.

CSF

I actually can't believe people are playing down the significance of a footballer scoring 88 goals in any 12 month period, be it February to February, March 18th to March 18th or whatever the goalposts we use are.

I'm not a big Barca or Messi fan but thats ****in immense.

BetterCallSaul

Some man

He followed this up with a lesson in clinical finishing, scoring a whopping seven goals when Warriors overwhelmed the Sothos 9-0 in the second leg

He scored a hat-trick when Warriors beat Maseru United 7-1 in an international friendly at the same venue in March and 4 goals in a 14-2 thrashing of Norco Rangers in a Chibuku Cup first round match

There was no stopping him as he went on to score in 17 consecutive matches for Warriors, including two when they were knocked out of the Africa Club Champions Cup 9-3 on aggregate by Ghana’s Hearts of Oak, 5 against Buseko FC in a Chibuku Cup tie, 5 against Roan in a Castle Cup semi-final and 7 against Mufulira Wanderers in two league games including 4 in a 5-1 demolition at Shinde Stadium.

He scored in yet another cup final when Warriors crushed Kitwe United 6-1 in November to lift the Castle Cup, with Chitalu grabbing a hat-trick and taking his tally for the season to 99 goals in a 9-2 whipping of City of Lusaka

MD1990

THFC wrote: »

I think his reaction him getting number 86 said it all really. Iniesta gave him the simplest of balls and Messi finished it from a difficult enough position. What he do, only give the credit to Iniesta. Didn't show any sign of recognising that he broke the record. I'm sure he was delighted and all that, but I'd say he cares a lot more about actual trophies rather than records.

don't be fooled by that reaction
have u not seen his reactions to not getting passes this season?
of course he cared about getting the record

Oat23

CSF wrote: »

I actually can't believe people are playing down the significance of a footballer scoring 88 goals in any 12 month period, be it February to February, March 18th to March 18th or whatever the goalposts we use are.

I'm not a big Barca or Messi fan but thats ****in immense.

Nobody is playing down the achievement, scoring so many goals is spectacular. The record is insignificant though. I didn't even know Müller held it. Not once have I heard it mentioned in German football.

Jimoslimos

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Lionel Messi's goalscoring record to be challenged by Zambia FA who claim Godfrey Chitalu scored more - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/lionel-messi/9740081/Lionel-Messis-goalscoring-record-to-be-challenged-by-Zambia-FA-who-claim-Godfrey-Chitalu-scored-more.html

I hear the North Korean FA are submitting a claim that Kim-Jong Il once scored 86 goals in one match

Essien

Ares wrote: »

Steady on there Shirley.

Zambia, the team who won the most recent African Cup of Nations?

Zambia, who beat Italy 4-0 at the 1988 Olympics.

Zambia, who were runners up in Africa in 1974, around the same time that this record is supposed to be set.

Have a bit of respect.

Fair enough, my comment was a bit short sighted or flippant and I accept I was a bit disrespectful.

However, nothing of what you've said here makes Zambian football seem impressive at all.

They won the ACON decades after the record was supposedly set.

A one off against (albeit a very strong) Italy in the Olympics.

Runners up in the ACON around the time the record was set.

Just for example, Ivory Coast were runners up in the last ACON - How much notice would be taken of a player scoring 100 goals in their domestic competition today? Very little I imagine. The reason is because the level Muller and Messi played/play at was/is considerably higher, so I stand by my 'proper football' comment.

Also, I won't apologize for football in the mid 70's in Zambia being outside of my "comfort zone" as was remarked by someone on a high horse earlier, for I can only dream of someday reaching a fraction of that level of coolness.

764dak

It doesn't matter if Zambian football is impressive/good or not. Chitalu would deserve the record for most goals in a calendar year.

carlop

The whole Chitalu thing has actually made Messi's record more impressive because it's made me realise that he did this in the best league in the world. It's amazing to think that this record doesn't belong to someone playing in a country where the standard is very low.

BetterCallSaul

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Nobody is playing down the achievement, scoring so many goals is spectacular. The record is insignificant though. I didn't even know Müller held it. Not once have I heard it mentioned in German football.

You only ever hear about records like this when they are close to being bettered. No one has come close in 40 years, so it's hardly a surprise it hasn't being mentioned.

I agree that the record is fairly insignificant though, football revolves around a season and not a calender year.

inforfun

baz2009 wrote: »

"That football is outside my comfort zone and not on Sky Sports so it's obviously made up."

I do agree to a certain degree.
But we are talking Africa here. Tony Yeboah, while playing for Eintracht Frankfurt, went on holidays back home and came back 4 years younger.
Africa and documenting stats? nah.

Reekwind

BetterCallSaul wrote: »

You only ever hear about records like this when they are close to being bettered. No one has come close in 40 years, so it's hardly a surprise it hasn't being mentioned

It's more than that though. According to Raphael Honigstein (on Football Weekly), not even Muller knew about the record until Messi approached it. This just was not a big deal at all: Muller's wiki page (to be all zeitgeisty) didn't make any mention of it as late as Nov this year

I'm a huge Messi fan and I'm absolutely delighted that Muller is getting the recognition that he deserves but it's hard to shake the impression that this is all a lot of hype

764dak

Reekwind wrote: »

It's more than that though. According to Raphael Honigstein (on Football Weekly), not even Muller knew about the record until Messi approached it. This just was not a big deal at all: Muller's wiki page (to be all zeitgeisty) didn't make any mention of it as late as Nov this year

I'm a huge Messi fan and I'm absolutely delighted that Muller is getting the recognition that he deserves but it's hard to shake the impression that this is all a lot of hype

Exactly, it's just the football propaganda machine at work.

Bodhisopha

Hardly needs propaganda

The record itself is perhaps a bit overplayed but only because it fits the narrative of a player who has been smashing records for 2 or so seasons now, so people are always looking to the next significant record, which will be 4 WPOTY awards, most likely. While the hype can get a bit annoying at least he's a player we can safely say is worthy of it.

764dak

carlop wrote: »

The whole Chitalu thing has actually made Messi's record more impressive because it's made me realise that he did this in the best league in the world. It's amazing to think that this record doesn't belong to someone playing in a country where the standard is very low.

La Liga is hardly the best league in the world.

764dak

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Hardly needs propaganda

The record itself is perhaps a bit overplayed but only because it fits the narrative of a player who has been smashing records for 2 or so seasons now, so people are always looking to the next significant record, which will be 4 WPOTY awards, most likely. While the hype can get a bit annoying at least he's a player we can safely say is worthy of it.

It's funny how Ronaldo was actually smashing records the season before last (not Messi) and now people are making it look like Messi has been doing this for a few years.

The fact that Messi won Puskas Award for best goal in 2011 shows the overhype. The fact that in 2007, Messi finished 2nd in player of the year, ahead of far superior players such as Totti, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and Riquelme shows the farcical nature of the situation. Totti wasn't even nominated.

MD1990

764dak wrote: »

La Liga is hardly the best league in the world.

how is not?
4 teams in last 16 of CL
always performing well in the Europa League too

764dak

MD1990 wrote: »

how is not?
4 teams in last 16 of CL
always performing well in the Europa League too

I know a comment like this would come up. You only look at the top teams. The bottom four teams in a league like the Serie A could easily dominate the bottom four teams in La Liga.

Talib Fiasco

764dak wrote: »

I know a comment like this would come up. You only look at the top teams. The bottom four teams in a league like the Serie A could easily dominate the bottom four team in La Liga.

Define "best league"?

carlop

764dak wrote: »

I know a comment like this would come up. You only look at the top teams. The bottom four teams in a league like the Serie A could easily dominate the bottom four teams in La Liga.

So what is the best league in the world then?

There can certainly be no doubting that it's one of the top ones anyway, so the original point remains.

Donnielighto

TheComeUp wrote: »

Define "best league"?

highest average quality would be an obvious one.

MD1990

764dak wrote: »

It's funny how Ronaldo was actually smashing records the season before last (not Messi) and now people are making it look like Messi has been doing this for a few years.

The fact that Messi won Puskas Award for best goal in 2011 shows the overhype. The fact that in 2007, Messi finished 2nd in player of the year, ahead of far superior players such as Totti, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and Riquelme shows the farcical nature of the situation. Totti wasn't even nominated.

yeah u made some good points there
i don't undertand Messi's goal against Brazil being up for the Puskas award this year too

batistuta9

adox wrote: »

Undoubtedly the second best Argentinian to ever play the game. :pac:

Thanks

Bodhisopha

764dak wrote: »

It's funny how Ronaldo was actually smashing records the season before last (not Messi) and now people are making it look like Messi has been doing this for a few years.

The fact that Messi won Puskas Award for best goal in 2011 shows the overhype. The fact that in 2007, Messi finished 2nd in player of the year, ahead of far superior players such as Totti, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and Riquelme shows the farcical nature of the situation. Totti wasn't even nominated.

Ronaldo got credit for any records he broke, he's just yet to break a record quite as impressive as this and Messi has been doing this for years. The better player and more impressive record should get the most hype, right?

Can't comment on the Puskas Award, no interest in it. Is it fan voted?

I also see no issue with him being voted 2nd for WPOTY, he was fantastic in the 2006/07 season. At no point since he has become a first team regular has any player in the world been "far superior" to him.

JPA

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Ronaldo got credit for any records he broke, he's just yet to break a record quite as impressive as this and Messi has been doing this for years. The better player and more impressive record should get the most hype, right?

Can't comment on the Puskas Award, no interest in it. Is it fan voted?

I also see no issue with him being voted 2nd for WPOTY, he was fantastic in the 2006/07 season. At no point since he has become a first team regular has any player in the world been "far superior" to him.

Don't feed them.