A united Ireland - dissident republicans

InchicoreDude

If Ireland became united, what would happen to dissident republican groups like the continuity IRA? Would they cease to exist and recognise the Irish government?

Or would they continue to believe they are the legimiate government of the country (as far as I remember, their ideology is based on the sitting of the first dail and they believe they are the direct descendant of that dail)?

BOHtox

They'd continue to exist as they are now acting as drug cartels under the pseudonym of Irish Republicanism

InchicoreDude

BOHtox wrote: »

They'd continue to exist as they are now acting as drug cartels under the pseudonym of Irish Republicanism

Yeah, I know. But what would their logic for continuing be? They really wouldnt be able to hide behind republicanism if Ireland was united....

Iwasfrozen

InchicoreDude wrote: »

If Ireland became united, what would happen to dissident republican groups like the continuity IRA? Would they cease to exist and recognise the Irish government?

Or would they continue to believe they are the legimiate government of the country (as far as I remember, their ideology is based on the sitting of the first dail and they believe they are the direct descendant of that dail)?

Of course they'll still exist. They're professional gangsters. They just won't have an ideology, I imagine them becoming just another gang.

KyussBishop

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Yeah, I know. But what would their logic for continuing be? They really wouldnt be able to hide behind republicanism if Ireland was united....

Their logic would be protecting the Irish public, by cracking down on drug gangs, while racketeering/extorting money from said drug gangs, thus profiting directly from the drug trade themselves as well (usually while engaging in wider criminal enterprise as well).

Win win, and it doesn't matter that virtually everybody sees through that, because they only have this thin a facade as it is.

Death and Taxes

InchicoreDude wrote: »

If Ireland became united, what would happen to dissident republican groups like the continuity IRA? Would they cease to exist and recognise the Irish government?

Or would they continue to believe they are the legimiate government of the country (as far as I remember, their ideology is based on the sitting of the first dail and they believe they are the direct descendant of that dail)?

Since they are essentially organized crime gangs one can safely assume they would continue to rob, extort, profit from drugs etc. you are making the mistake of assuming they have any credible political agenda or mandate, that is just a facade for their criminality.

InchicoreDude

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Since they are essentially organized crime gangs one can safely assume they would continue to rob, extort, profit from drugs etc. you are making the mistake of assuming they have any credible political agenda or mandate, that is just a facade for their criminality.

No, I understand fully what they are. And I understand they hide behind republicanism.

But my question was if the republican issue disappeared, how would they continue to hide behind it?

swimming in a sea

InchicoreDude wrote: »

No, I understand fully what they are. And I understand they hide behind republicanism.

But my question was if the republican issue disappeared, how would they continue to hide behind it?

I think they would still have an excuse in their own heads to exist, as an united Ireland is very unlikely to exist as an extension of the current Irish republic.
Most likely the unionist dominate counties would be given some sort of federalism, this would be a good enough excuse for the IRA etc to say the job is not done.

RDM_83 again

Just my 2cents but I think that there may be a divergence between the dissidents anyway (and not just between the named organizations and there's probably a lot of individuals floating between both sets of activity), like in Dublin they appear to be simply another drugs gang however in the North I don't think you could argue that they don;t behave very differently to a simple profit motivated criminal gang.
In relation to this I'm sure a lot will continue to be involved in criminality, its even possible that some would consider the hypothetical united Ireland illegitimate for other reasons and continue political violence, however for some the nature of this criminality will not simply be profit motivated (I'm thinking of something like RAAD)

Grudaire

InchicoreDude wrote: »

But my question was if the republican issue disappeared, how would they continue to hide behind it?

I think that you have to look at the make up of a United Ireland.

There will be a sizable minority who will still consider themselves staunchly Unionist. There will be some who will use this as a cover for their own violent needs.

Just as Loyalist paramilitaries exist in the current state to 'defend the Union' or some such nonsense, you will see Republicans using Loyalist violence to justify their own actions.

Duiske

Cliste wrote: »

I think that you have to look at the make up of a United Ireland.

There will be a sizable minority who will still consider themselves staunchly Unionist. There will be some who will use this as a cover for their own violent needs.

Just as Loyalist paramilitaries exist in the current state to 'defend the Union' or some such nonsense, you will see Republicans using Loyalist violence to justify their own actions.

Agree with pretty much all of that. We will never have a truly peaceful United Ireland. Actually, we can probably never have a truly United Ireland in the sense that many would imagine it to be, ie, fully governed from Dublin, Gardai on the streets, etc. Militant loyalism would never agree to it, and every action they took would be seen by the armed republican groups as justifying their existence.

pablomakaveli

Duiske wrote: »

Agree with pretty much all of that. We will never have a truly peaceful United Ireland. Actually, we can probably never have a truly United Ireland in the sense that many would imagine it to be, ie, fully governed from Dublin, Gardai on the streets, etc. Militant loyalism would never agree to it, and every action they took would be seen by the armed republican groups as justifying their existence.

There current roles and outlooks would effectively be swapped. The Loyalists would be the ones who see themselves as fighting to free their country and the Republicans would start seeing themselves as the ones defending their country.

RandomName2

InchicoreDude wrote: »

If Ireland became united, what would happen to dissident republican groups like the continuity IRA? Would they cease to exist and recognise the Irish government?

Or would they continue to believe they are the legimiate government of the country (as far as I remember, their ideology is based on the sitting of the first dail and they believe they are the direct descendant of that dail)?

Yeh they could attempt to legitimise themselves by arguing that Ireland was technically free, but being run by illegitimate West-Brit plutocrats. "Why would we bow to a little Westminster in Dublin, etc."

GRMA

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I think they would still have an excuse in their own heads to exist, as an united Ireland is very unlikely to exist as an extension of the current Irish republic.
Most likely the unionist dominate counties would be given some sort of federalism, this would be a good enough excuse for the IRA etc to say the job is not done.

Hardly. The CIRA advocate a federal republic.

Yes OP, dissident republican groups would in all likelihood disappear.

Anti Ka

Ok... Lets just imagine that Britain returned the six counties to Ireland, and all the dissident republicans were toasting a job well done.....

1) Who is going to foot the security bill for the 'civil war' that breaks out in the north?

2) Who foots the bill for the tens of thousands more in reciept of unemployment benifit, welfare payments, rent allowence, childrens allowence, medical cards, disability payments, job seekers allowence....etc...

Do the dissidents really think Dublin have got that covered...??

The simple answer is No.

But.... The 'dissident republicans' know this. They know that Ireland can hardly support the republic as it is. To provide massive security measures to the north, along with massive financial support, would bankrupt an already financially dire country.

The IRA / RIRA / CIRA / PIRA..... Whatever these guys call themselves these days, is just a cover for racketeering, drug running and arms dealing - Period.

The take the name of bygone freedom fighters, they insult the very hero's they portray to respect, and saturate communities with drugs and terror.

Change the name 'Republicans' - to 'Gangsters'

.jacksparrow.

Anti Ka wrote: »

Ok... Lets just imagine that Britain returned the six counties to Ireland, and all the dissident republicans were toasting a job well done.....

1) Who is going to foot the security bill for the 'civil war' that breaks out in the north?

2) Who foots the bill for the tens of thousands more in reciept of unemployment benifit, welfare payments, rent allowence, childrens allowence, medical cards, disability payments, job seekers allowence....etc...

Do the dissidents really think Dublin have got that covered...??

The simple answer is No.

But.... The 'dissident republicans' know this. They know that Ireland can hardly support the republic as it is. To provide massive security measures to the north, along with massive financial support, would bankrupt an already financially dire country.

The IRA / RIRA / CIRA / PIRA..... Whatever these guys call themselves these days, is just a cover for racketeering, drug running and arms dealing - Period.

The take the name of bygone freedom fighters, they insult the very hero's they portray to respect, and saturate communities with drugs and terror.

Change the name 'Republicans' - to 'Gangsters'

The relatives of murdered soldiers,police officers and prison officers might disagree.