New Licence issues..

Roadskill

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Will the need for driving a restricted bike disappear for people over 24 who do there IBT after the 19th on the unrestricted A, or will insurance companies say you can only drive up to a 250 or something like that? Basically how do you see insurance premiums going?

Am I right in thinking IBT after the 19th is just modules 1,3 & 5?

Yes you are correct and as for insurance companies well they are a law to themselves I'm afraid.

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

Yes you are correct and as for insurance companies well they are a law to themselves I'm afraid.

Checked with my instructor and was told to being a copy of my current l.p. and the receipt from the motor tax office for the new l.p

Mr Motorcycle

Roadskill wrote: »

I have actually emailed the RSA today to find out if we can commence Direct Access with a licence number in case of a backlog. I will let you know what they say.

I checked that out last year
I had a number of students that wanted to start the IBT training but only had the receipts.

I was told by the rsa that under no circumstances was i to start IBT training unless the student had a valid learner permit in their possion and a receipt was not acceptable

Mr Motorcycle

bambera wrote: »

These new unrestricted A licences are available from Jan 19, however, any applications received for a license after 12th Jan will be issued under the new system(RSA are not issuing any licenses between jan 12-18- this is the transition period.)

So, is there anything wrong with applying for new unrestricted LP on Jan 12th and sitting new IBT on Jan 21st? What would happen if I did the IBT, then my new license arrives and because of a backlog has an issue date of say Jan 23rd?

The problem is that you current learner permit is restricted to 25kws so you cant do direct access because the bike has to be min 40kws and your learner permit will not cover you

Now even when you apply for the new A unrestricted unless you have it in your possession its no good

A receipt is not valid(belive me ive been down this route before with the rsa)
i was told under no circumstances was i allowed to train students until they had the permit in their possession

How can your instructor issue an ibt cert to correspond with the new A unrestricted learner permit when the A learner permit isnt law till after the 19 jan and they probably wont start to issue them until at least 21/22/jan so with post etc your looking at 25/26 jan

bambera

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

The problem is that you current learner permit is restricted to 25kws so you cant do direct access because the bike has to be min 40kws and your learner permit will not cover you

Now even when you apply for the new A unrestricted unless you have it in your possession its no good

A receipt is not valid(belive me ive been down this route before with the rsa)
i was told under no circumstances was i allowed to train students until they had the permit in their possession

How can your instructor issue an ibt cert to correspond with the new A unrestricted learner permit when the A learner permit isnt law till after the 19 jan and they probably wont start to issue them until at least 21/22/jan so with post etc your looking at 25/26 jan

Well, if I have my application is on the morning of the 14th, it should be one of the first to be processed, so if it was processed on the 21/22 surely thats the date of issue that would be written on it. Yeah- I may not receive it until a week after (post) but if the IBT cert is dated 22nd and the licence is dates 21 or 22nd there should be no issue yeah?

On the RSA site one of the FAQ is what to do if your exchanging/renewing/upgrading your licence and you are stopped by the Gardai while your waiting to receive the new one- the answer states that you have 10 days to produce it at your local station and that you will have received your new one by then..

Mr Motorcycle

bambera wrote: »

Well, if I have my application is on the morning of the 14th, it should be one of the first to be processed, so if it was processed on the 21/22 surely thats the date of issue that would be written on it. Yeah- I may not receive it until a week after (post) but if the IBT cert is dated 22nd and the licence is dates 21 or 22nd there should be no issue yeah?

On the RSA site one of the FAQ is what to do if your exchanging/renewing/upgrading your licence and you are stopped by the Gardai while your waiting to receive the new one- the answer states that you have 10 days to produce it at your local station and that you will have received your new one by then..

All im saying is that as an instructor the guide lines from the rsa say that the student must have the the learner permit in their possession

Technicially you are correct in what you are saying but things dont work like that in the real world

The problem arises with the instructor

if they is doing their job correctly then they cannot commence training until you have a learner permit on your person

Now if the rsa receive the new IBT cert dated on the 22/23 and given that the 19 jan is a saturday so they wont start to issue new learner permits till the monday 21 jan

Your instructor will find him/her self in big trouble with the RSA.

They could lose thier instructor permit

Roadskill

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I checked that out last year
I had a number of students that wanted to start the IBT training but only had the receipts.

I was told by the rsa that under no circumstances was i to start IBT training unless the student had a valid learner permit in their possion and a receipt was not acceptable

Yes I know that for first time permit holders is the case but with the new regulations a lot of riders are wanting to upgrade to the unrestricted permit in which case the permit number will be exactly the same. Previously when renewing a permit the receipt of application and payment in this case was acceptable as it was several weeks waiting for the new permit to arrive (RSA's words not mine). Surely with a company in the UK (Middlesex I think) supplying 4 different countries the new cards there will be some sort of backlog unless they are S**t hot.
We as instructors could be waiting until February before being able to start the new system.
I would like clarification on the RSA's stance on this before telling anyone anything.

Mr Motorcycle

i understand where your coming from but the fact of the matter is its a legal issue you cant undertake the training unless you are in possession of a valid permit(the rsa,s respone when i asked that very question)

kaimera

the gf got stung with the new rules.

over 24, restricted fzs600.

applied for test in Nov, test date Jan 24 2013.

Letter today telling her she needs to do IBT and other such nonsense or she'll only have an A2.

ffs.

Mr Motorcycle

kaimera wrote: »

the gf got stung with the new rules.

over 24, restricted fzs600.

applied for test in Nov, test date Jan 24 2013.

Letter today telling her she needs to do IBT and other such nonsense or she'll only have an A2.

ffs.

They are correct if your gf wants to go for the A unrestricted learner permit.

she has the option to go for the test on her current learner permit because of the bike she is riding falls under the A2 permit.

she would then be restricted to the A2 for two years and would then have to do a full IBT anyway to move up to the A unrestricted learner permit

By not doing the ibt now all she is doing is kicking the can down the road for two years.

the best option because she is over 24 is exchange the learner permit after 19 jan she can then take the restriction off the bike to complete her ibt go for the test and no restrictions

The guys that have been riding around for a number of years on a learner permit will now be obliged to do the ibt in some shape or form.

Even if you got your learner permit before IBT was introduced

Even if you say to yourself ,well im, not going to do the test
You will be caught when you go to renew your learner permit because you will be issued an A2 learner permit

The A restricted catagory(your gf,s current learner permit) will not exist after 19 jan

So whats the craic with insurance then, will they allow a 24 year old to ride an unrestricted bike while they are waiting the 6 months to do the test after they have completed the ibt?

No point in buying a nice bike only to find out you wont be insured for the 6 months in between.

Mr Motorcycle

Charlie Aggressive Wolverine wrote: »

So whats the craic with insurance then, will they allow a 24 year old to ride an unrestricted bike while they are waiting the 6 months to do the test after they have completed the ibt?

No point in buying a nice bike only to find out you wont be insured for the 6 months in between.

Cant see a problem really

Thats what happens at the moment

The only issue is how much are they going to charge

kaimera

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

They are correct if your gf wants to go for the A unrestricted learner permit.

she has the option to go for the test on her current learner permit because of the bike she is riding falls under the A2 permit.

she would then be restricted to the A2 for two years and would then have to do a full IBT anyway to move up to the A unrestricted learner permit

By not doing the ibt now all she is doing is kicking the can down the road for two years.

the best option because she is over 24 is exchange the learner permit after 19 jan she can then take the restriction off the bike to complete her ibt go for the test and no restrictions

The guys that have been riding around for a number of years on a learner permit will now be obliged to do the ibt in some shape or form.

Even if you got your learner permit before IBT was introduced

Even if you say to yourself ,well im, not going to do the test
You will be caught when you go to renew your learner permit because you will be issued an A2 learner permit

The A restricted catagory(your gf,s current learner permit) will not exist after 19 jan

There would be no issue bar telling her three weeks before her exam that she either has to do cancel the exam or only get an A2.

Where the **** was that info when she applied for the test? Last she was told was that as long as she had applied before the 19th Jan it would be ok.

Mr Motorcycle

kaimera wrote: »

There would be no issue bar telling her three weeks before her exam that she either has to do cancel the exam or only get an A2.

Where the **** was that info when she applied for the test? Last she was told was that as long as she had applied before the 19th Jan it would be ok.

The problem arose with the infomation(or lack of it) that the rsa received from the Eu commission on the third licence directive.

instructors like myself were invited to meetings with the RSA before christmas to get the info on the new licence catagorys and IBT syllabus
and they couldnt give us all the answers then.

They still had to go back to the commission to double check that they were complying with the directive.

Im not on here to defend the rsa im only a motorcycle instructor

But every one ,the general public.instructors the RSA, received the infomation very late in the day.

They probably never mentioned the new rules because they simply didnt know.
The final touches to the new ibt syllabus have only been finalised in the last weeks and that was with frantic communication between the RSA and the commission
Not that its any cosalation to your gf but we are all in the same boat.

If she wants to go for the full A licence she has the option to defer the test(at no extra cost) till she gets the ibt sorted

serious3

@mr motorcycle, have you any idea what module 5 is going to cost yet?

Mr Motorcycle

serious3 wrote: »

@mr motorcycle, have you any idea what module 5 is going to cost yet?

Im guessing here as i cant speak for every instructor/school but expect to pay an extra 30 to 60 euro depending on bike hire, ppe hire etc.

Most instructors and schools (myself included ) would have the current rates that they charge for IBT up on their web sites.

module 5 is an extra 2 hrs incorperated into the existing 16hrs ibt syllabus

So the module 5 is just 18hrs now instead of 16

Some instructors might try to absorb the cost but to be honest i cant see that happening as the profit margins for instructors that do IBT training are so tight.

That added to the extra cost to instructors, bikes at least 600cc,(A catagory licence) insurance etc.

But thats just my educated guess,:rolleyes:Market forces will really dictate the price.

Xaime

The info has been on the RSA web for some time:
All motorcycles including those
greater than 35kW. The minimum age at which this licence can be held is age
20.
Two routes- (a) Direct access at age 24,
pass a theory test, get a learner permit take Initial Basic Training (IBT modules
1,3 and 5) and pass a driving test after waiting six months. (b) Progressive access at minimum age 20 where the rider has held an A2 licence for 2 years, then this licence can be achieved by taking Initial Basic Training (IBT) module
5 on an A motorcycle with an ADI or by passing a driving test (no requirement to wait six months).

I am going to get an A2 and then do Module after 5 years. What is the rush?

Mr Motorcycle

Xaime wrote: »

The info has been on the RSA web for some time:
All motorcycles including those
greater than 35kW. The minimum age at which this licence can be held is age
20.
Two routes- (a) Direct access at age 24,
pass a theory test, get a learner permit take Initial Basic Training (IBT modules
1,3 and 5) and pass a driving test after waiting six months. (b) Progressive access at minimum age 20 where the rider has held an A2 licence for 2 years, then this licence can be achieved by taking Initial Basic Training (IBT) module
5 on an A motorcycle with an ADI or by passing a driving test (no requirement to wait six months).

I am going to get an A2 and then do Module after 5 years. What is the rush?

You could do the conversion module after the two years on the A2

You can get an A2 learner permit at 18

IBT pass test and two year restriction and do the coversion course and have a Full A unrestricted at 21/22 years of age:)

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

Yes I know that for first time permit holders is the case but with the new regulations a lot of riders are wanting to upgrade to the unrestricted permit in which case the permit number will be exactly the same. Previously when renewing a permit the receipt of application and payment in this case was acceptable as it was several weeks waiting for the new permit to arrive (RSA's words not mine). Surely with a company in the UK (Middlesex I think) supplying 4 different countries the new cards there will be some sort of backlog unless they are S**t hot.
We as instructors could be waiting until February before being able to start the new system.
I would like clarification on the RSA's stance on this before telling anyone anything.

Hi Roadskill

did you get any clarification from the RSA on this? Thanks.

Roadskill

bambera wrote: »

Hi Roadskill

did you get any clarification from the RSA on this? Thanks.

Not yet Bambera. I am waiting on a call this evening from a supervisor to clear a few things up for me. I had hoped that I would know 100% by now but even being 99% sure I can't give out wrong info on a public forum I hope everyone understands that as If what I say turns out incorrect the my name is ****e all over the place.

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

Not yet Bambera. I am waiting on a call this evening from a supervisor to clear a few things up for me. I had hoped that I would know 100% by now but even being 99% sure I can't give out wrong info on a public forum I hope everyone understands that as If what I say turns out incorrect the my name is ****e all over the place.

For sure, I understand. I'm booked in to do modules 1,3 and 5 with a local instructor starting on Mon 21st. I am just hoping that I don't end up having to do it twice or something:( My instructor assures me all is good though- I hope he is right!

kaimera

(b) Progressive access at minimum age 20 where the rider has held an A2 licence for 2 years, then this licence can be achieved by taking Initial Basic Training (IBT) module
5 on an A motorcycle with an ADI or by passing a driving test (no requirement to wait six months).

This.

So if the gf gets her A2, she waits 2 years and then does IBT5 OR her driving test? Seems wrong.

Roadskill

kaimera wrote: »

This.

So if the gf gets her A2, she waits 2 years and then does IBT5 OR her driving test? Seems wrong.

That's correct she can do a once only training upgrade to the next level so A2 to A or take another test it's up to her.

kaimera

Roadskill wrote: »

That's correct she can do a once only training upgrade to the next level so A2 to A or take another test it's up to her.

Wow ok.

Roadskill

kaimera wrote: »

Wow ok.

Just note that when we mention a licence we mean full licence as the learner permit isn't a licence only a permit to learn.

eoinkildare

I am over 24. Can I do my test on my current A permit after january and get an A2 full licence and then do module 5 and exchange for a full A unresrticed licence??
Feck all info out there.
Eoin

Mr Motorcycle

eoinkildare wrote: »

I am over 24. Can I do my test on my current A permit after january and get an A2 full licence and then do module 5 and exchange for a full A unresrticed licence??
Feck all info out there.
Eoin

Good write up about this on the mag ireland website
All the facts and details are covered

eoinkildare

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

Good write up about this on the mag ireland website
All the facts and details are covered

Cheers, I'll have a look now.

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

Not yet Bambera. I am waiting on a call this evening from a supervisor to clear a few things up for me. I had hoped that I would know 100% by now but even being 99% sure I can't give out wrong info on a public forum I hope everyone understands that as If what I say turns out incorrect the my name is ****e all over the place.

well Roadskill, was the supervisor able to clear anything up for you/us? Thanks

Roadskill

bambera wrote: »

Checked with my instructor and was told to being a copy of my current l.p. and the receipt from the motor tax office for the new l.p

OK
This is not correct. Previously once a LP had been applied for the receipt was deemed as proof of application and was generally accepted by the Garda. But since all of the new regulations regarding compulsory training for cars & motorcycles the LP must be on you at all times when driving or riding. This is proof you are actually allowed to ride the category machine you are on. It also comes down to the issue of enforcement is what Driver Licencing has told me today.
If you get stopped on the road without your LP the Garda can give you 10 days to produce your LP at the station but that is at their discretion not mandatory.
The other thing is that your receipt for the new LP is not allowed to do your IBT with as when you apply for the new one you have to hand in the old one so you won't have a copy of it anyway.
This is as I expected but like I said before without 100% clarification I won't put it out there on the old interweb.;)
So unfortunately unless you have received your new permit by then you can't go ahead with your ibt. Your instructor is wrong to book you in without knowing this and giving bad info hence the reason I have no bookings in place yet.
Sorry M8