New Licence issues..

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

OK
This is not correct. Previously once a LP had been applied for the receipt was deemed as proof of application and was generally accepted by the Garda. But since all of the new regulations regarding compulsory training for cars & motorcycles the LP must be on you at all times when driving or riding. This is proof you are actually allowed to ride the category machine you are on. It also comes down to the issue of enforcement is what Driver Licencing has told me today.
If you get stopped on the road without your LP the Garda can give you 10 days to produce your LP at the station but that is at their discretion not mandatory.
The other thing is that your receipt for the new LP is not allowed to do your IBT with as when you apply for the new one you have to hand in the old one so you won't have a copy of it anyway.
This is as I expected but like I said before without 100% clarification I won't put it out there on the old interweb.;)

Hi Roadskill-

I was actually on to the RSA about this today-explaining that I most likely wouldn't have my new unrestricted permit on my person when commencing the new IBT. I said I would have a photocopy of my current permit and a receipt from the tax office proving that I paid for and was awaiting the new unrestricted permit- Asked was there a problem and was told its up to the instructor whether he is happy to proceed on this basis. She said what you were saying about the gards stopping me etc but she did confirm that regardless of all this my IBT cert would be valid as this issue would be more a matter for the law and not them.

eoinkildare

I emailed the RSA yesterday and they got back to me very quickly. Here is what they said:

Hi there,
I am sure you inundated with queries about the changes in the licensing system for motorcycles but unfortunately I can't find the answer to my query in the available literature.

I am currently the holder of a learner permit in category A and I am restricted to 25Kw.
My test is paid for but won't be until at least April. If I do the test on my current bike whihc is 25Kw (500CC restricted), I understand that I will only receive a new category A2 competency certificate.
Can I then complete module 5 progression of the IBT on a 600cc 40Kw bike with an ADI and exchange my A2 licence for an unrestricted full A licence. I am 28 years of age so I am entitled to direct access under the new system but don't intend on changing my bike to a full power one in time for the test.

Otherwise, must I exchange my current A permit for a new unrestricted permit? If I do this, must I undertake module 5 IBT progression module before being allowed on the road and then do a driving test on a 600cc 40Kw bike?



Thanking you for any information you can provide,

Eoin

****************************************************

Hi Eoin

Thank you for your query, as you are aged over 24 and you currently hold a learner permit for category A before the 19th January 2013, but do not plan on sitting your driving test until after that date, you will have the following options:

(A) You can sit your driving test for category A2 and present your current category A Learner permit at the test. The representative vehicle which you must bring to an A2 test is between 25 and 35kw. However, as your current category A learner permit restricts you to riding a motorcycle of 25kw you will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of 25kw exactly. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a category A2 Certificate of Competency which you can exchange for a category A2 full licence in your local motor Taxation office, If you complete 2 years with category A2 full licence you can then apply for a learner permit and complete Module 5 initial basic training and progress to category A.



(B) You can apply for the post 19th January 2013 category A learner permit which allows you to ride a motorcycle of unrestricted power output. You can then take your driving test by presenting to the test in the representative vehicle which is a minimum of 595cm3 and an engine power of at least 40kw. If you pass the driving test, you will be issued with a category A certificate of competency which you can exchange for a category A full licence in your local motor taxation office and which is unrestricted.


(C) You can apply for the category A2 learner permit if this suits you, which allows you to ride a motorcycle of 25 to 35kw. You will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of between 25 and 35 kw. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a category A2 certificate of competency which you can exchange for a category A2 full licence in your local motor Taxation office.
If your first learner permit was issued on or after the 06th December 2010, you are required to complete Initial Basic Training before you can sit your driving test.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Kind Regards
**************************************************************


Hi,
Thanks a lot for the reply. Just one clarification.
If i take option A, will i have to do a second test to progress to category A full licence?
Thanks again,
Eoin

********************************************************

No Test Eoin

Regards


*********************************************************************

So there you have it lads.

Mr Sheen!

eoinkildare wrote: »

I emailed the RSA yesterday and they got back to me very quickly. Here is what they said:

Hi there,
I am sure you inundated with queries about the changes in the licensing system for motorcycles but unfortunately I can't find the answer to my query in the available literature.

I am currently the holder of a learner permit in category A and I am restricted to 25Kw.
My test is paid for but won't be until at least April. If I do the test on my current bike whihc is 25Kw (500CC restricted), I understand that I will only receive a new category A2 competency certificate.
Can I then complete module 5 progression of the IBT on a 600cc 40Kw bike with an ADI and exchange my A2 licence for an unrestricted full A licence. I am 28 years of age so I am entitled to direct access under the new system but don't intend on changing my bike to a full power one in time for the test.

Otherwise, must I exchange my current A permit for a new unrestricted permit? If I do this, must I undertake module 5 IBT progression module before being allowed on the road and then do a driving test on a 600cc 40Kw bike?



Thanking you for any information you can provide,

Eoin

****************************************************

Hi Eoin

Thank you for your query, as you are aged over 24 and you currently hold a learner permit for category A before the 19th January 2013, but do not plan on sitting your driving test until after that date, you will have the following options:

(A) You can sit your driving test for category A2 and present your current category A Learner permit at the test. The representative vehicle which you must bring to an A2 test is between 25 and 35kw. However, as your current category A learner permit restricts you to riding a motorcycle of 25kw you will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of 25kw exactly. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a category A2 Certificate of Competency which you can exchange for a category A2 full licence in your local motor Taxation office, If you complete 2 years with category A2 full licence you can then apply for a learner permit and complete Module 5 initial basic training and progress to category A.



(B) You can apply for the post 19th January 2013 category A learner permit which allows you to ride a motorcycle of unrestricted power output. You can then take your driving test by presenting to the test in the representative vehicle which is a minimum of 595cm3 and an engine power of at least 40kw. If you pass the driving test, you will be issued with a category A certificate of competency which you can exchange for a category A full licence in your local motor taxation office and which is unrestricted.


(C) You can apply for the category A2 learner permit if this suits you, which allows you to ride a motorcycle of 25 to 35kw. You will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of between 25 and 35 kw. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a category A2 certificate of competency which you can exchange for a category A2 full licence in your local motor Taxation office.
If your first learner permit was issued on or after the 06th December 2010, you are required to complete Initial Basic Training before you can sit your driving test.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Kind Regards
**************************************************************


Hi,
Thanks a lot for the reply. Just one clarification.
If i take option A, will i have to do a second test to progress to category A full licence?
Thanks again,
Eoin

********************************************************

No Test Eoin

Regards


*********************************************************************

So there you have it lads.

Very good Think I will be going with option B myself.

Roadskill

bambera wrote: »

Hi Roadskill-

I was actually on to the RSA about this today-explaining that I most likely wouldn't have my new unrestricted permit on my person when commencing the new IBT. I said I would have a photocopy of my current permit and a receipt from the tax office proving that I paid for and was awaiting the new unrestricted permit- Asked was there a problem and was told its up to the instructor whether he is happy to proceed on this basis. She said what you were saying about the gards stopping me etc but she did confirm that regardless of all this my IBT cert would be valid as this issue would be more a matter for the law and not them.

Who did you speak to as I was talking to a supervisor in driver licencing who told me this. I don't think it's just the instructor that should be happy as it is a legal issue so you should be happy also. I do feel that if you were to have an incident during your training there may well be problems. It's up to you but good luck with it all the same.

Roadskill

Just a heads up don't believe everything your told yet.
I spoke too someone at the RSA office and also driver licencing then I spoke to the head of all testing and head of ADI's who said different again.
They are as confused as we are.:D

daenerysstormborn3

Why does option B not mention IBT?

eoinkildare

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Why does option B not mention IBT?

I don't know. As far as I know, all options will require IBT 5 to be done.

prunudo

Roadskill wrote: »

Just a heads up don't believe everything your told yet.
I spoke too someone at the RSA office and also driver licencing then I spoke to the head of all testing and head of ADI's who said different again.
They are as confused as we are.:D

I don't envy you and other instructors over the next few weeks. Fair play for keeping everybody informed even with all the confusion out there.

Mr Motorcycle

Roadskill wrote: »

OK
This is not correct. Previously once a LP had been applied for the receipt was deemed as proof of application and was generally accepted by the Garda. But since all of the new regulations regarding compulsory training for cars & motorcycles the LP must be on you at all times when driving or riding. This is proof you are actually allowed to ride the category machine you are on. It also comes down to the issue of enforcement is what Driver Licencing has told me today.
If you get stopped on the road without your LP the Garda can give you 10 days to produce your LP at the station but that is at their discretion not mandatory.
The other thing is that your receipt for the new LP is not allowed to do your IBT with as when you apply for the new one you have to hand in the old one so you won't have a copy of it anyway.
This is as I expected but like I said before without 100% clarification I won't put it out there on the old interweb.;)
So unfortunately unless you have received your new permit by then you can't go ahead with your ibt. Your instructor is wrong to book you in without knowing this and giving bad info hence the reason I have no bookings in place yet.
Sorry M8

I hate to say i told you so But I TOLD YOU SO:rolleyes:

I checked all this out last year with the rsa if you read my previous post i said as much.

I dont post on public fourms without checking for a definative answer before i post

Roadskill

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I hate to say i told you so But I TOLD YOU SO:rolleyes:

I checked all this out last year with the rsa if you read my previous post i said as much.

I dont post on public fourms without checking for a definative answer before i post

Yes I read your posts but look at the problems caused by people calling the RSA themselves. Also I had a different answer to you before so I wanted to make sure. Nobody said you posted incorrect info but today I received a call from 2 RSA people who gave me different responses. like I said if they are confused what hope do we have to run our businesses within the law.
Prime example is Banbera's post @ 15.39

Roadskill

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I hate to say i told you so But I TOLD YOU SO:rolleyes:

BTW don't be cheeky :rolleyes:

drunkmonkey

Guys what's the story with carrying a passenger with the new licences? Does the learner A permit allow you to carry someone once your IBT is done? I heard there might be something about carrying passengers in module 5, there hardly going to have us learn how to carry people properly and then tell us were not allowed to?

Roadskill

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Guys what's the story with carrying a passenger with the new licences? Does the learner A permit allow you to carry someone once your IBT is done? I heard there might be something about carrying passengers in module 5, there hardly going to have us learn how to carry people properly and then tell us were not allowed to?

No. apparently we are to inform trainees on the dangers of carrying passengers or luggage. i.e the extra weight and handling Changes with the motorcycle. It will only be informative rather than practicle.

drunkmonkey

Why not do it properly, nearly should be part of IBT or Test? So when can an over 24 rookie with iBT and unrestricted A permit?

HarryKnight

Hi,
I passed my driving test in July and was wondering what I could do to get this restriction limited, this is the reply I received from RSA:

The two year restriction can’t be removed, you will have to carry the restriction until the 2 year period expires.

Your only option would be to apply for a new Learner Permit in the A unrestricted after 19/01/2013, complete Initial Basic Training Modules 1 3 and 5 if you have not already done so and re sit your test on the bigger unrestricted bike.

Regards,

Does anyone have other information on that?

Roadskill

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why not do it properly, nearly should be part of IBT or Test? So when can an over 24 rookie with iBT and unrestricted A permit?

We get a hard enough time of it already from some of the public without making things even more complicated. The option for training in this area is open for anyone who passes their test to request if they wish. In fact we have had people wanting to do this prior to touring etc. Not very often though I must add.

Roadskill

HarryKnight wrote: »

Hi,
I passed my driving test in July and was wondering what I could do to get this restriction limited, this is the reply I received from RSA:



Does anyone have other information on that?

Just off the phone now with an RSA supervisor regarding this. It seems the licensing section have a different take on it so I cannot answer you yet. This is going to be awkward. They are separate departments for training requirements and licensing. There's only one way to settle it imho.
Fiiiiiggghht

Faith+1

Roadskill wrote: »

Just off the phone now with an RSA supervisor regarding this. It seems the licensing section have a different take on it so I cannot answer you yet. This is going to be awkward. They are separate departments for training requirements and licensing. There's only one way to settle it imho.
Fiiiiiggghht

This truely is a Bananna Republic :rolleyes:

Mr Motorcycle

HarryKnight wrote: »

Hi,
I passed my driving test in July and was wondering what I could do to get this restriction limited, this is the reply I received from RSA:



Does anyone have other information on that?

what they said:rolleyes:
No other way around it

HarryKnight

Thanks for your feedback. I wouldn't mind about the 25kw too much, if there would be a rental bikes available with 25kw, but you most likely need to settle with a 125.

Mr Motorcycle

HarryKnight wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback. I wouldn't mind about the 25kw too much, if there would be a rental bikes available with 25kw, but you most likely need to settle with a 125.

Because you passed your test( i assume you recived the old A restricted learner permit) which means you are on the old rules

You can buy any size bike that you want(subject to insurance) and get it restricted back to 25 kws you are not restricted to a 125

However if you want to short cut your automatic two year restriction and get the new A unrestricted you are then subject to the new laws(because your new A unrestricted learner permit is a new catagory) and so at that stage the responce you recived from the RSA would be correct

HarryKnight

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

Because you passed your test( i assume you recived the old A restricted learner permit) which means you are on the old rules

You can buy any size bike that you want(subject to insurance) and get it restricted back to 25 kws you are not restricted to a 125

I agree, I should have added that I meant when you are on vacation in another country you barely get a bike that is below 25KW and no 125ccm. Cause the bike rentals have usually 125ccms and then there is a huge gap to 600ccms and for one customer they won't restrict their bike to 25KW.

Roadskill

HarryKnight wrote: »

Hi,
I passed my driving test in July and was wondering what I could do to get this restriction limited, this is the reply I received from RSA:



Does anyone have other information on that?

Ok final answer from the horses mouth today.
To remove a 25kw restriction from a full A licence you will need to apply for the unrestricted A and after 19 January do module 5 WITHOUT having to sit another test. This means the instructor can sign you off for the full unrestricted A. Apparently the instructor must inform the RSA on your intentions and will be given the details of what route is required by that particular person. Then they will issue the instructor with a special number for the IBT cert so the motor tax office knows to issue the full licence on presentation of the IBT cert to them.
A bit of messing around but that's it in a nutshell.

daenerysstormborn3

Roadskill wrote: »

Ok final answer from the horses mouth today.
To remove a 25kw restriction from a full A licence you will need to apply for the unrestricted A and after 19 July do module 5 WITHOUT having to sit another test. This means the instructor can sign you off for the full unrestricted A.
The instructor must inform the RSA on your intentions and will be given the details of what route is required by that particular person. Then they will issue the instructor with a special number for the IBT cert so the motor tax office knows to issue the full licence on presentation of the IBT cert to them.
A bit of messing around but that's it in a nutshell.

19th July or 19th January?

Roadskill

pixiebean22 wrote: »

19th July or 19th January?

My bad. Post edited. predictive text.

MrScootch

Roadskill wrote: »

Surely with a company in the UK (Middlesex I think) supplying 4 different countries the new cards there will be some sort of backlog unless they are S**t hot.
We as instructors could be waiting until February before being able to start the new system.

What!? Middlesex? So instead of job creation here we're farming it out to an overseas company when we have the worst unemployment in forever!? Arse! :mad:


So anyway, can you get the application in to exchange your permit for the new one next week or do you have to wait till after the 19th?

This is like counting down the sleeps till Christmas!

Roadskill

MrScootch wrote: »

What!? Middlesex? So instead of job creation here we're farming it out to an overseas company when we have the worst unemployment in forever!? Arse! :mad:


So anyway, can you get the application in to exchange your permit for the new one next week or do you have to wait till after the 19th?

This is like counting down the sleeps till Christmas!

Anyone applying after tomorrow (12th Jan) will be issued a licence or LP under the new system.

Roadskill

This attachment is the new ibt information booklet received from the RSA yesterday.

prunudo

Roadskill wrote: »

Anyone applying after tomorrow (12th Jan) will be issued a licence or LP under the new system.

Does that mean that anybody who passes their test next week will automatically be under the new system even though they have passed their test before the 19th.

Hotblack Desiato

MrScootch wrote: »

What!? Middlesex? So instead of job creation here we're farming it out to an overseas company when we have the worst unemployment in forever!?

All public sector contracts worth over a certain amount (125k I think) have to be open to companies across the EU. They're not allowed discriminate in favour of Irish companies.