New Licence issues..

Roadskill

jvan wrote: »

Does that mean that anybody who passes their test next week will automatically be under the new system even though they have passed their test before the 19th.

Quote from RSA email received.

"To assist with an orderly transition to the new plastic licence, all applications received from the 12 January 2013 will issue in plastic card format. This licence will be produced in a standalone secure facility and therefore no driving licences can be produced in the Motor Tax Office. As such, over the counter licences will no longer be available after 12 January. Instead the licence or learner permit will be posted out to the applicant once he or she has applied to the Motor Tax Office."

As the new plastic licences are to be dated from the 19th I presume you are correct.

Mandzhalas

Roadskill wrote: »

Ok final answer from the horses mouth today.
To remove a 25kw restriction from a full A licence you will need to apply for the unrestricted A and after 19 January do module 5 WITHOUT having to sit another test. This means the instructor can sign you off for the full unrestricted A. Apparently the instructor must inform the RSA on your intentions and will be given the details of what route is required by that particular person. Then they will issue the instructor with a special number for the IBT cert so the motor tax office knows to issue the full licence on presentation of the IBT cert to them.
A bit of messing around but that's it in a nutshell.

any idea how much will module 5 cost?and how many hours? Thanks Richard

HarryKnight

Mandzhalas wrote: »

any idea how much will module 5 cost?and how many hours? Thanks Richard

According to the leaflet from Roadskill it should be 11 hours and some days before that Mr Motorcycle said something of 60 Euros. But that seems very cheap for 11 hours.

Roadskill

Mandzhalas wrote: »

any idea how much will module 5 cost?and how many hours? Thanks Richard

I am not allowed to advertise services but we will be publishing prices on our website next week.

Roadskill

HarryKnight wrote: »

According to the leaflet from Roadskill it should be 11 hours and some days before that Mr Motorcycle said something of 60 Euros. But that seems very cheap for 11 hours.

Mr motorcycle was referring to the possible extra cost on top of the normal ibt costs if doing direct access of 18 hrs instead of 16 hrs.
Also prices will vary depending on the training school.

drunkmonkey

It doesn't say anything about option 5 having any on the road training via radio link, I presume it still does?? I can see it written clearly in option 4 but not 5.

Roadskill

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It doesn't say anything about option 5 having any on the road training via radio link, I presume it still does?? I can see it written clearly in option 4 but not 5.

Yes. All on road training must be done with radio link.

Faith+1

Roadskill wrote: »

This attachment is the new ibt information booklet received from the RSA yesterday.

"Please note that from November 2013 the motorcycle used for either IBT training or driving test purposes in

Category A, must have a minimum power output of 50 KW.

The minimum power output for a Category A2 type vehicle used for training or the practical driving test is being reduced to 20kW"

WTF?

prunudo

Faith+1 wrote: »

"Please note that from November 2013 the motorcycle used for either IBT training or driving test purposes in

Category A, must have a minimum power output of 50 KW.

The minimum power output for a Category A2 type vehicle used for training or the practical driving test is being reduced to 20kW"

WTF?

I'd say that's just to stop people turning up on small powered bikes. It shows that they are able to ride a higher power bike up to 46kw. Wouldn't think there are many bikes under 20kw anyway bar 125cc which you're not allowed use at present for the A test

Mr Motorcycle

jvan wrote: »

I'd say that's just to stop people turning up on small powered bikes. It shows that they are able to ride a higher power bike up to 46kw. Wouldn't think there are many bikes under 20kw anyway bar 125cc which you're not allowed use at present for the A test

Its 35kws not46kws maybe you mean 46bhp for the A2 and and you would not be able to use a bike that produces 20kws for the A2 at the moment.

prunudo

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

Its 35kws not46kws maybe you mean 46bhp for the A2 and and you would not be able to use a bike that produces 20kws for the A2 at the moment.

Sorry, yeah meant bhp, it wont allow me to edit that now.

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

Yes I know that for first time permit holders is the case but with the new regulations a lot of riders are wanting to upgrade to the unrestricted permit in which case the permit number will be exactly the same. Previously when renewing a permit the receipt of application and payment in this case was acceptable as it was several weeks waiting for the new permit to arrive (RSA's words not mine). Surely with a company in the UK (Middlesex I think) supplying 4 different countries the new cards there will be some sort of backlog unless they are S**t hot.
We as instructors could be waiting until February before being able to start the new system.
I would like clarification on the RSA's stance on this before telling anyone anything.

Roadkill where did you hear the plastic permits are produced in the UK? Applied for mine today and was told they are not produced in the UK but in blanchardstown.

Roadskill

bambera wrote: »

Roadkill where did you hear the plastic permits are produced in the UK? Applied for mine today and was told they are not produced in the UK but in blanchardstown.

That's good news anyway. I heard from another instructor who said he had been told they were doing the licences for 4 countries Ireland included. I am glad to be wrong on this occasion.
I did say in my original post that I think that's the case.

Wonda-Boy

bambera wrote: »

Roadkill where did you hear the plastic permits are produced in the UK? Applied for mine today and was told they are not produced in the UK but in blanchardstown.

Only licence's being made in Blanchardstown are the fake ones!!! :eek:

bambera

Roadskill wrote: »

That's good news anyway. I heard from another instructor who said he had been told they were doing the licences for 4 countries Ireland included. I am glad to be wrong on this occasion.
I did say in my original post that I think that's the case.

Yep good news alright.

It was actually a lot of hassle getting the guy to accept my application- He didn't know much- it seems the staff have not been briefed on the new changes which is a disgrace really.

First off I was told that my current LP is unrestricted and that theres no point in applying for another. Then he went off to a supervisor came back and told me that I have to come back after Jan 19th- I corrected him explaining that all application after Jan 12 will be processed after Jan 19. He denied this and said they would be processed today- took my application and money and said he couldnt guarantee I'd get the unrestricted A. Paid the 35 and got a receipt fot a 'replacement permit' for 10 Euro! Was told their systems were not updates yet. Pretty crappy experience- I knew more about it than them.

Wonda-Boy

I have just over a year left on my restriction now (passed last March) but I dont really give a **** about getting the restriction lifted TBH, yes it would be nice to ride anything I wanted but people are too eager to get the biggest and fastest machine they can in the shortest time possible. Without serving the time on smaller bikes.

I still have so much to learn and my FZ6 is perfect for doing just that......its still plenty quick for me and a great bike to boot.

Will look into the offical line to see where I stand with the module 5 scenario.

P.C.

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

I have just over a year left on my restriction now (passed last March) but I dont really give a **** about getting the restriction lifted TBH, yes it would be nice to ride anything I wanted but people are too eager to get the biggest and fastest machine they can in the shortest time possible. Without serving the time on smaller bikes.

I still have so much to learn and my FZ6 is perfect for doing just that......its still plenty quick for me and a great bike to boot.

Will look into the offical line to see where I stand with the module 5 scenario.

I don't get this?

There is no proof that the restriction makes you a better rider, or gives you the skills to ride a more 'powerful' bike.
Why do people have to 'serve the time on a smaller bike'?

Wonda-Boy

Firstly I am on about new riders....and the above post is relevant to me and how I dont think the new laws are properly taught out. In fact some clown in a suit had a brain fart over a tuna sandwich at lunchtime and now its gonna affect us all.

You obviously view a restriction differently to myself, I dont view it as a negative thing and judging by the tone of your post you do. New riders, like myself having never had a big bike before (my FZ6 is my 1st bike) need to get familar with a bike before you can ride it, there is so much to learn without having to control a large 1000cc bike especially if you have never rode a bike before which alot of people have not. And a smaller cc engine is a hell of alot more forgiving then say an R1 without a restiction. I mention the restriction as before the new laws it was the only way to get a bigger bike and be lawfully able to ride it.

In my short time riding bikes I have been out on so many spins with new lads to biking and some of the crashes I have seen are just criminal and that was struggling with a 400cc bike and 600cc bikes. But in your opinion, the bigger the bike the better? :rolleyes:

So you subscribe to the theory that anyone over the age of 24 (new laws) with the basic IBT can now hop on an R1 (or a large cc bike) having never been on any bike before and be no danger to THEMSELVES or OTHERS on the road!!!!

We get enough bad press as it is for being a danger to ourselves and others without the problems this can potentially cause, newbies hammering it around on bike far to powerful for them with no experience at all.

How many NEW RIDERS do you know that went and got a big powerful un-restricted bike for the 1st time and never had a moments bother?

And FYI there is proof that a restriction makes me a better rider...I have lost count the times in my first few weeks that my restricted forgiving bike helped me when I did something wrong or miss judged a corner and did not bin my bike.

Hotblack Desiato

IBT and proper training / testing is going to prepare people a lot better than 2 years riding around on a restriction will.

On the old system you didn't even have to do IBT until a couple of years ago. No minimum power of bike for 'A' test, anything over 125 would do. Then sit for 2 years, maybe not even ride a bike at all during that time, and at the end of that you have a full unrestricted licence. So you had people getting full power 600/1000cc bikes who might never have ridden anything bigger / more powerful than a GN250 and who never had any proper training or instruction at all.

You talk about people falling off 400 or 600cc bikes, were they restricted or not? It makes no difference anyway as almost all crashes on the road happen at speeds well within what a restricted bike is capable of. Lack of observation and skill and judgement is the problem, not the bike, and the best way to fix that is proper training not smaller bikes.

Wonda-Boy

Most people do IBT and that is it nothing else no extra training......IBT covers the very basic elements nothing more nothing less and it aint gonna keep you safe. People are barely able to afford IBT and gear and a bike without the exspense of advaned training. Sure as soon as most new riders get out on their own they forget alot of the IBT when it comes to coping with navigating around in traffic and getting used to a bike they just bought it is quite daunting.

There is no 2 ways about it, getting out and riding your bike and learning your limits and the bikes limits in all weathers for 2 yrs on a restricted bike is better then any advanced training for a day or two. And dont forget all those yrs ago the country was not as densely populated with people and cars and distractions like mobile phones etc like it is now. Its alot more dangerous now for motorbikes then 15yrs ago say.

Of course there were people who did the test and did not ride a bike for the 2 yrs and went and got something powerful. But the lad who got out and about for the 2 yrs on a restricted bike getting experience would be a better all round rider then the fella who sat there waiting for a "TROPHY BIKE" that he cant ride. Again I am not on about lads who had a bike 20yrs ago and are back riding.....

Alot of accidents do happen at restricted speeds but you will recover alot quicker on a smaller learner friendly bike that a powerful sports bike with a snatchy throttle and moto gp accleration.

I understand what you are saying and its swings and roundabouts, but learning on a bike that is learner friendly is the best way to go. And a big powerful bike IMHO is not the way to go.

Just my 2 cents...it aint gospel or anything

Mr Motorcycle

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Most people do IBT and that is it nothing else no extra training......IBT covers the very basic elements nothing more nothing less and it aint gonna keep you safe. People are barely able to afford IBT and gear and a bike without the exspense of advaned training. Sure as soon as most new riders get out on their own they forget alot of the IBT when it comes to coping with navigating around in traffic and getting used to a bike they just bought it is quite daunting.

There is no 2 ways about it, getting out and riding your bike and learning your limits and the bikes limits in all weathers for 2 yrs on a restricted bike is better then any advanced training for a day or two. And dont forget all those yrs ago the country was not as densely populated with people and cars and distractions like mobile phones etc like it is now. Its alot more dangerous now for motorbikes then 15yrs ago say.

Of course there were people who did the test and did not ride a bike for the 2 yrs and went and got something powerful. But the lad who got out and about for the 2 yrs on a restricted bike getting experience would be a better all round rider then the fella who sat there waiting for a "TROPHY BIKE" that he cant ride. Again I am not on about lads who had a bike 20yrs ago and are back riding.....

Alot of accidents do happen at restricted speeds but you will recover alot quicker on a smaller learner friendly bike that a powerful sports bike with a snatchy throttle and moto gp accleration.

I understand what you are saying and its swings and roundabouts, but learning on a bike that is learner friendly is the best way to go. And a big powerful bike IMHO is not the way to go.

Just my 2 cents...it aint gospel or anything

I have to complement you on your balanced additude to biking as a begginer.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned people who want to jump on to a rocket ship as a complete begginer is madness.

I have seen it myself as im in the trade.
A guy will walk into the shop and its a case of (my balls are bigger than yours)

And he will buy a bike out of pure ego to impress his mates never mind the fact that he cant ride the bloody thing.

A lot of people fall into the trap of, i can make the bike move and change the gears etc so i can ride a bike

Any one with bike experience will tell you any fool can twist a throttle it takes a bit more brain power and skill to truly master a modern spots bike.

The difference between buying a 1000cc bike now and 15/20 years ago is the vast difference in power of modern machines.

A z1000/ gs 1000 of 20 years ago would be left for dead by a modern 400/500cc sports machine.

uk stats show its the born again bikers mid to late 40s are the ones that are getting creamed on the roads.

Got a few quid to spare and can afford the latest pocket rocket and want to relive their youth.

kaimera

Q - with me on my current restricted full A-license (25kw)

I wouldn't be able to drive the new restricted bikes would I?

Wonda-Boy

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I have to complement you on your balanced additude to biking as a begginer.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned people who want to jump on to a rocket ship as a complete begginer is madness.

I have seen it myself as im in the trade.
A guy will walk into the shop and its a case of (my balls are bigger than yours)

And he will buy a bike out of pure ego to impress his mates never mind the fact that he cant ride the bloody thing.

A lot of people fall into the trap of, i can make the bike move and change the gears etc so i can ride a bike

Any one with bike experience will tell you any fool can twist a throttle it takes a bit more brain power and skill to truly master a modern spots bike.

The difference between buying a 1000cc bike now and 15/20 years ago is the vast difference in power of modern machines.

A z1000/ gs 1000 of 20 years ago would be left for dead by a modern 400/500cc sports machine.

uk stats show its the born again bikers mid to late 40s are the ones that are getting creamed on the roads.

Got a few quid to spare and can afford the latest pocket rocket and want to relive their youth.

Thanx, I am glad you see what I am trying to say. And you are dead right about people buying huge bikes just for the mates to say "I KNOW A LAD ON A CBR1000RR" so ****ing what.......chances are he cant ride it properly.

A monkey sitting on a bike with an elastic band around the throttle can ride in a straight line ffs...;)

Wonda-Boy

kaimera wrote: »

Q - with me on my current restricted full A-license (25kw)

I wouldn't be able to drive the new restricted bikes would I?

Not sure...good question, As far as I know with the new laws, you will have to hand in your current full license with restriction for a new permit and then do a module 5 with an instructor to be able to ride any bike un-restricted.

Which is prolly the best way to go if you want to escape the restriction.

kaimera

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Not sure...good question, As far as I know with the new laws, you will have to hand in your current full license with restriction for a new permit and then do a module 5 with an instructor to be able to ride any bike un-restricted.

Which is prolly the best way to go if you want to escape the restriction.

Only have a few months left so no pushed on paying for mod5 just to go unrestricted.

Just wondering could I drive the gfs if she gets had hers changed to 35kw

Roadskill

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Not sure...good question, As far as I know with the new laws, you will have to hand in your current full license with restriction for a new permit and then do a module 5 with an instructor to be able to ride any bike un-restricted.

Which is prolly the best way to go if you want to escape the restriction.

There's no need to hand in the full licence just get the new unrestricted LP. Then as you said module 5 progression module (11 hrs) then exchange the licence for the full unrestricted. That way you can still ride around on the 25kw bike without having to wear the L vest and other LP restriction until module 5 is done.

kaimera wrote: »

Only have a few months left so no pushed on paying for mod5 just to go unrestricted.

Just wondering could I drive the gfs if she gets had hers changed to 35kw

You can ride what you like when your restriction is up but not until as you are still on 25 kw ATM.

Hotblack Desiato

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

There is no 2 ways about it, getting out and riding your bike and learning your limits and the bikes limits in all weathers for 2 yrs on a restricted bike is better then any advanced training for a day or two.

It shouldn't be either/or though really, and I think the new system helps there.
Some people do learn from their mistakes but some people keep making the same mistakes again and again. Look at the way many cagers drive...
If most people could assess their own driving/riding accurately and learn from that, then we wouldn't need training or testing at all :pac: amazing really that up until very recently most riders and drivers were basically self-taught.

I've no problem with people going up the classes faster than 2 yrs if they have the right attitude and get decent training. They'll need to get signed off by a trainer or do a test to move up a class anyway.

And dont forget all those yrs ago the country was not as densely populated with people and cars and distractions like mobile phones etc like it is now. Its alot more dangerous now for motorbikes then 15yrs ago say.

Ah come on... there were mobile phones 15 years ago! and the condition of the roads was a lot worse with all the traffic that's now on motorways crammed onto two-lane single carriageway roads. The bike death rate was about twice what it is now. Drink driving was through the roof compared to now.

But the lad who got out and about for the 2 yrs on a restricted bike getting experience would be a better all round rider then the fella who sat there waiting for a "TROPHY BIKE" that he cant ride.

Under the old, old system (pre-1998) that's what happened if you were 25 or older. You could get an unrestricted provisional with no bike experience at all, there was no IBT, there was no certification of instructors, there were very few bike instructors at all...

Roadskill

ninja900 wrote: »

Under the old, old system (pre-1998) that's what happened if you were 25 or older. You could get an unrestricted provisional with no bike experience at all, there was no IBT, there was no certification of instructors, there were very few bike instructors at all...

Very true. I used to teach cbt in the UK before moving here in 1997. I started training in Ireland in 1998 and I would be lucky to get 2 or 3 lessons a week back then as the test never bothered riders much and they were mainly self taught e.g keep trying until you stop falling off . There was probably less than 10 of us in Ireland I knew of instructing back then. I remember calling the then transport minister to ask if any training system was to be put in place and he said yes cbt was due to be introduced in the next few years like the UK. 12 years later it arrived.

Mr Motorcycle

Roadskill wrote: »

Very true. I used to teach cbt in the UK before moving here in 1997. I started training in Ireland in 1998 and I would be lucky to get 2 or 3 lessons a week back then as the test never bothered riders much and they were mainly self taught e.g keep trying until you stop falling off . There was probably less than 10 of us in Ireland I knew of instructing back then. I remember calling the then transport minister to ask if any training system was to be put in place and he said yes cbt was due to be introduced in the next few years like the UK. 12 years later it arrived.

I remember calling the then transport minister to ask if any training system was to be put in place and he said yes cbt was due to be introduced in the next few years like the UK. 12 years later it arrived.


Thats quick for ireland:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Roadskill

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

Thats quick for ireland:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I know that now