New Licence issues..

Robbknoll · 15-01-2013 9:38pm

Hey guys quick question, for a 400cc motorcycle (EG Honda CB400) what learner permit do i apply for (A2?) and for the IBT is it module 1 through 4 or does it fall into the new Module scheme 1,3,5? Thanks.

Roadskill · 15-01-2013 10:02pm

Robbknoll wrote: »

Hey guys quick question, for a 400cc motorcycle (EG Honda CB400) what learner permit do i apply for (A2?) and for the IBT is it module 1 through 4 or does it fall into the new Module scheme 1,3,5? Thanks.

The learner permit depends on your age. If its your first ever LP and your 18-23 then it's the A2. Over 24 it's the A both needing direct access modules 1, 3 & 5

Wonda-Boy · 16-01-2013 9:46am

Had a quick look around and as per usual some of the prices been advertised for the new modules is just crazy, dont know how people sleep at night TBH. I am all for making a few quid but you dont have to take the RIDERS for a RIDE.

Hopefully the few instructors out there that actually love biking and are keenly priced and want to help new riders will keep the prices down....I remember getting quoted nearly €600 for the IBT back in the day for a 1-1 ended up shopping around and got looked after for ALOT less and it was 1-1. And was the best advice I ever got too.....

So my advice for anyone looking to do the new modules is SHOP around and you will be amazed at what you will save.

minidazzler · 16-01-2013 10:30am

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Had a quick look around and as per usual some of the prices been advertised for the new modules is just crazy, dont know how people sleep at night TBH. I am all for making a few quid but you dont have to take the RIDERS for a RIDE.

Hopefully the few instructors out there that actually love biking and are keenly priced and want to help new riders will keep the prices down....I remember getting quoted nearly €600 for the IBT back in the day for a 1-1 ended up shopping around and got looked after for ALOT less and it was 1-1. And was the best advice I ever got too.....

So my advice for anyone looking to do the new modules is SHOP around and you will be amazed at what you will save.

One thing to remember RE: Module 5 though, is that a lot of the instructors have had to buy new bikes to meet the requirements... and it's over 3 days rather than 2 now. Never mind the likely increased insurance costs for bigger bikes.

Love of biking can only have a small part to do with it when you're running a business.

Roadskill · 16-01-2013 10:47am

minidazzler wrote: »

One thing to remember RE: Module 5 though, is that a lot of the instructors have had to buy new bikes to meet the requirements... and it's over 3 days rather than 2 now. Never mind the likely increased insurance costs for bigger bikes.

Love of biking can only have a small part to do with it when you're running a business.

It's not module 5 that is the issue. its the fact that direct access for A2 & A are 18 hrs for ibt which can't be done over 2 days.
Module 5 can still be done in the 2 days.

Wonda-Boy · 16-01-2013 11:34am

I am not asking anyone to justify prices to me on here, I did not even know you were an instructor Roadskill. You did say earlier you were in the trade I taught you sold bikes so fair play for being an instructor. I am just making a comment based on observation of the prices being charged from looking on the tinternet, and I am just saying to people you have to shop around. Alot of new riders think that IBT is a set price across the board and its far from it.

If it was your son or daughter, or relative looking for training and could save up to €200 you would do the same.

However, every instructor has the same overheads more or less in relation to insurance and compound hire etc and yet still the prices vary so much its insane. And I am not on about €50 or so here, how some so called instructors can charge €600 for IBT 1-1 and others €400 and still get 1-1 is off the wall. Thats even before the new legislation being ratified and new modules on the cirriculum or whatever you trainer's call it.

Best of luck with the training and stay safe on the roads.....

Roadskill · 16-01-2013 11:52am

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

I am not asking anyone to justify prices, I did not know you were an instructor either Roadskill so fair play for that. However, every instructor has the same overheads more or less in relation to insurance and compound hire etc and yet still the prices vary so much its insane. And I am not on about €50 or so here, how some so called instructors can charge €600 for IBT 1-1 and others €400 and still get 1-1 is off the wall.

Best of luck with the training and stay safe on the roads.

Some training companies are full time and some instructors also have full time jobs so ibt is on top of their normal hrs. The other factor is location and running costs for that area.
It's complicated but I do know that some of the cheapest guys are having problems and others have pulled out altogether.

Peanut2011 · 16-01-2013 12:09pm

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Had a quick look around and as per usual some of the prices been advertised for the new modules is just crazy, dont know how people sleep at night TBH. I am all for making a few quid but you dont have to take the RIDERS for a RIDE.

Hopefully the few instructors out there that actually love biking and are keenly priced and want to help new riders will keep the prices down....I remember getting quoted nearly €600 for the IBT back in the day for a 1-1 ended up shopping around and got looked after for ALOT less and it was 1-1. And was the best advice I ever got too.....

So my advice for anyone looking to do the new modules is SHOP around and you will be amazed at what you will save.

Wow, I've had some look around myself and it would appear that the Module 5 is priced the same as the whole of IBT I did for my A provisional nearly 2 years ago... This must be a rip-off!

Now I do not blame the instructors as they have the cost they need to cover, however I would have imagined that the Module 5 on it's own should have been cheaper and shorter for the people who already had IBT done at some stage. It basically is penalising people who already had training opposed the ones who had no training at all! This change is mostly affecting the ones who opted for old A type provisional.

Surely this should have been contested at some point however I can't find details anywhere. I wonder was there any lobbying done to have this introduced the way it was?

Roadskill · 16-01-2013 12:30pm

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Wow, I've had some look around myself and it would appear that the Module 5 is priced the same as the whole of IBT I did for my A provisional nearly 2 years ago... This must be a rip-off!

Now I do not blame the instructors as they have the cost they need to cover, however I would have imagined that the Module 5 on it's own should have been cheaper and shorter for the people who already had IBT done at some stage. It basically is penalising people who already had training opposed the ones who had no training at all! This change is mostly affecting the ones who opted for old A type provisional.

Surely this should have been contested at some point however I can't find details anywhere. I wonder was there any lobbying done to have this introduced the way it was?

You are correct that module 5 is shorter than the whole ibt but can't be done in 1 day. On a daily basis the instructor will be tied up too long to book anything else in during this 2 days plus the extra bikes and insurance needed to let you guys ride unrestricted. At least you have the option to get unrestricted. You don't have too.
BTW
Direct Access prices in the UK range from £350- £700 sterling for a 3 or 5 day course.
As for lobbying this system was agreed around the EU years ago.

Peanut2011 · 16-01-2013 12:55pm

Roadskill wrote: »

On a daily basis the instructor will be tied up too long to book anything else in during this 2 days plus the extra bikes and insurance needed to let you guys ride unrestricted.

Thanks Roadskill, as I said I can understand the instructors charging what they are and not blaming any of yous but the system is just another ripp-off in Ireland.

It is interesting how Ireland will bring in anything that is agreed in Europe where we have to pay more but they have still not abolished VRT that Europe has said was illegal....

Ah that is my rant done for the day!

I don't really need the unrestricted bike nor would I go for a 1000cc just cos I can. TBH even if I got the restriction lifted I would still stick with my 600cc restricted bike. The only thing appealing about the unrestricted licence is not having to go trough restricting every bike you buy.

Ah well!

MrScootch · 21-01-2013 3:25pm

Da fuk? Tax office think you need IBT *before* you apply for your LP now.

FYI no black and white mugshots either now.

Peanut2011 · 21-01-2013 3:28pm

MrScootch wrote: »

Da fuk? Tax office think you need IBT *before* you apply for your LP now.

FYI no black and white mugshots either now.

The general communication on the issue within the powers at be really amazes me!!

martomcg · 21-01-2013 6:24pm

From the RSA website:

Module 1 focuses on theory and practical skills and will take place in the classroom and the off-road training area. It will take at least three hours to complete

Module 3 focuses on theory and practical skills and will take place in the classroom and the off-road training area. It will take at least two hours to complete

So Module 1 & 3 = 5hrs
If Module 5 = 11hrs

So total 16hrs

How cant this be split into 2 days? Even by adding in breaks for lunch, etc. it should be possible?

Am i missing something?

MrScootch · 21-01-2013 7:55pm

martomcg wrote: »

From the RSA website:

So Module 1 & 3 = 5hrs
If Module 5 = 11hrs

So total 16hrs

How cant this be split into 2 days? Even by adding in breaks for lunch, etc. it should be possible?

Am i missing something?

I think you're missing where it's 13 hrs. Mod 5 is only 11hrs as a progression module, i.e. already done Mod 1,2,3,4.
But yeah, I'm sure you could still do it over two days, especially with a break in between.
Logistically, I don't see why you couldn't share with other learners going for whatever category for the classroom modules and go 1-1 for Mod 5. Paying for 3 days is just too expensive.

Roadskill · 21-01-2013 8:04pm

MrScootch wrote: »

I think you're missing where it's 13 hrs. Mod 5 is only 11hrs as a progression module, i.e. already done Mod 1,2,3,4.
But yeah, I'm sure you could still do it over two days, especially with a break in between.
Logistically, I don't see why you couldn't share with other learners going for whatever category for the classroom modules and go 1-1 for Mod 5. Paying for 3 days is just too expensive.

It is possible to do but it is hard enough for some beginners to do 16hrs over 2 days as it is let alone 18. What you don't realise is that the instructor is also put under a lot of pressure not only physically but mentally as well. The day usually starts for us an hour or so before the trainee turns up then the same once they have gone home. Bikes need checking and washing and making sure everything is ready to rock & roll.
Personally I wouldn't like to cut any corners and there's also the safety issue to consider.

martomcg · 22-01-2013 9:11am

Roadskill wrote: »

It is possible to do but it is hard enough for some beginners to do 16hrs over 2 days as it is let alone 18. What you don't realise is that the instructor is also put under a lot of pressure not only physically but mentally as well. The day usually starts for us an hour or so before the trainee turns up then the same once they have gone home. Bikes need checking and washing and making sure everything is ready to rock & roll.
Personally I wouldn't like to cut any corners and there's also the safety issue to consider.

Thats a very fair point. Hadn't exactly considered those factors.

Anybody know how its done in the rest of Europe? (These being European related changes that are brought in)

Is it done over 3 days on the Continent too?

cantdecide · 22-01-2013 2:05pm

My brother is 31 and got his LP before IBT came in Summer 2009, iirc. He was meant to take the driving test last summer but didn't show when the news of the new rules came in.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%20B%20FAQ's%20Bikes.pdf

Does Q13, option B apply to him? Does that means he still avoids IBT and just exchanges his current LP A for the new LP A and he can de-restrict his bike and subsequently take the test or have I got that wrong?

MrScootch · 22-01-2013 2:58pm

Roadskill wrote: »

It is possible to do but it is hard enough for some beginners to do 16hrs over 2 days as it is let alone 18.

That's why I said with a break in between, i.e. not two days back to back. I know a day like that can turn your brain to jelly.

Roadskill wrote: »

What you don't realise is that the instructor is also put under a lot of pressure not only physically but mentally as well. The day usually starts for us an hour or so before the trainee turns up then the same once they have gone home.

To be honest that hadn't actually crossed my mind. Group classroom modules 2 days a week and riding modules the rest? Bit of a tricky one. I can see where you're coming from alright but too many euros for me.

(I know there's the 2-up shared option but what if I ended up with someone slow :eek:)

Peanut2011 · 22-01-2013 3:07pm

cantdecide wrote: »

My brother is 31 and got his LP before IBT came in Summer 2009, iirc. He was meant to take the driving test last summer but didn't show when the news of the new rules came in.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%20B%20FAQ's%20Bikes.pdf

Does Q13, option B apply to him? Does that means he still avoids IBT and just exchanges his current LP A for the new LP A and he can de-restrict his bike and subsequently take the test or have I got that wrong?

Yes the option B does apply to him but it will still mean that he will have to do Module 5 of IBT which is not mentioned there.

cantdecide · 22-01-2013 3:55pm

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Yes the option B does apply to him but it will still mean that he will have to do Module 5 of IBT which is not mentioned there.

You're right.

Spoke to the RSA and an instructor. Because he never did IBT, he has to do the 13 hour Mod 5. If he had completed IBT, he would have been doing the 11 hour version of Mod 5. I was quoted €395 by ISM. Mod 5 is a "progression module"/ direct access.

He can exchange his old A LP for a new A LP and de-restrict his bike but can't drive the bike again until he completes Mod 5. He has to take the test on a 40KW+ bike.

He could also go down the road of passing the test as per his current LP A but that would mean he would end up with the A2 license having to complete some or all of IBT and pass the A at some future stage. Pointless of course.

kaimera · 22-01-2013 3:59pm

cantdecide wrote: »

You're right.

Spoke to the RSA and an instructor. Because he never did IBT, he has to do the 13 hour Mod 5. If he had completed IBT, he would have been doing the 11 hour version of Mod 5. I was quoted €395 by ISM. Mod 5 is a "progression module"/ direct access.

He can exchange his old A LP for a new A LP and de-restrict his bike but can't drive the bike again until he completes Mod 5. He has to take the test on a 40KW+ bike.

He could also go down the road of passing the test as per his current LP A but that would mean he would end up with the A2 license having to complete some or all of IBT and pass the A at some future stage. Pointless of course.

Not really pointless if you can't afford the IBT; get the A2 stay on 25/35kw and just pass the A then in 2 years.

Peanut2011 · 22-01-2013 4:02pm

cantdecide wrote: »

He could also go down the road of passing the test as per his current LP A but that would mean he would end up with the A2 license having to complete some or all of IBT and pass the A at some future stage. Pointless of course.

If he goes for A2 he won't need IBT but in order to get new A he will have to at some point do the IBT module 5.

If money is tight at the moment he can always go for A2, and after a while get the direct access A trough training.

cantdecide · 22-01-2013 4:15pm

kaimera wrote: »

Not really pointless if you can't afford the IBT; get the A2 stay on 25/35kw and just pass the A then in 2 years.

Pointless for him I should have said. He could scare up the money if he wanted to alright and since he hasn't had any training of any kind, he knows he'll benefit from the safety aspect. Mod 5 is the bulk of full IBT again anyway, it seems.

Peanut2011 wrote: »

If he goes for A2 he won't need IBT but in order to get new A he will have to at some point do the IBT module 5.

If money is tight at the moment he can always go for A2, and after a while get the direct access A trough training.

The upshot is that he will need to pass IBT (in some form or fashion) at some stage. I didn't know you could work your way through it? Is that distinct from Mod 5?

The problem is that is that his Shadow 1100 is restricted to 25KW and unrestricted appears to be 36.5KW, so he would still have to keep the bike restricted to 25KW if he goes for an A2 LP. If he were to switch over to a LP A in the future, he wouldn't be able to travel outside the Republic.

I think I need a lie down...

Peanut2011 · 22-01-2013 4:35pm

cantdecide wrote: »

The problem is that is that his Shadow 1100 is restricted to 25KW and unrestricted appears to be 36.5KW, so he would still have to keep the bike restricted to 25KW if he goes for an A2 LP. If he were to switch over to a LP A in the future, he wouldn't be able to travel outside the Republic.

I think I need a lie down...

Ok, here it is. If he was to pass the test on A2, he would have all the benefits of the full licence with the restriction on the KW. If his current bike would still need to be restricted and it is already he does not have to fork out extra money at this stage.

He would still be able to bring that bike outside of Ireland on full A2. If he than decided later that he wanted / needed a full A licence, he would have to take out LP A first, do the module 5 (same module 5 he would have to do now if he wanted new LP A) with the registered trainer and the trainer would be able to give him certificate (providing he passes the module) that together with the lp A he would be able to exchange it for the full A. He would not need to do another test.

Hope this clarifies.

minidazzler · 22-01-2013 7:22pm

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Ok, here it is. If he was to pass the test on A2, he would have all the benefits of the full licence with the restriction on the KW. If his current bike would still need to be restricted and it is already he does not have to fork out extra money at this stage.

He would still be able to bring that bike outside of Ireland on full A2. If he than decided later that he wanted / needed a full A licence, he would have to take out LP A first, do the module 5 (same module 5 he would have to do now if he wanted new LP A) with the registered trainer and the trainer would be able to give him certificate (providing he passes the module) that together with the lp A he would be able to exchange it for the full A. He would not need to do another test.

Hope this clarifies.

Related to this, I'm not sure, so do you have to wait for 2 years after passing the A2 licence test to do Mod 5 IBT and get a full unrestricted? Or can you do the Mod 5 a week after passing and be fully unrestricted?

cantdecide · 22-01-2013 8:39pm

News just in: My brother will have to do Mod 1 and Mod 3 as well as Mod 5.

minidazzler wrote: »

Related to this, I'm not sure, so do you have to wait for 2 years after passing the A2 licence test to do Mod 5 IBT and get a full unrestricted? Or can you do the Mod 5 a week after passing and be fully unrestricted?

What age are you, MD?

sean61 · 22-01-2013 10:04pm

Sorry if this has been asked before but this is a long thread!

I have my A learner permit & now I want to exchange it for a new unrestricted one. Do I just bring my old permit & 2 passport photos to the tax office or will I have to do a theory test etc. again?

MrScootch · 22-01-2013 10:28pm

sean61 wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked before but this is a long thread!

I have my A learner permit & now I want to exchange it for a new unrestricted one. Do I just bring my old permit & 2 passport photos to the tax office or will I have to do a theory test etc. again?

That's the idea (if you're over 24 that is), no theory test again. Just be prepared for some blank looks behind the counter.

(Oh and obviously you have to fill out a form and give them €35.)

drunkmonkey · 22-01-2013 11:27pm

Guys is the only condition on anyone over 24 on the unrestricted A learner permit, that they must do their IBT and Test on a bike over 40kw.

For example if you done your test on a Yamaha WR450 and passed you'd have a full unrestricted A. The WR is 42.3KW http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_wr450f_2trac%2004.htm

Green Mile · 22-01-2013 11:29pm

I'm confused.
I'm 27 years young with a learners permit that is about to expire in April this year. I got the license in 2008.

I drive a 125cc but planning on renting a larger restricted bike as I've just booked my full license test with RSA.

Does the link in the ops original post affect me in anyway?

Edit:
Also, I have never done the IBT as I was exempt because of the start date of my licence.

New Licence issues..

Comments