New Licence issues..

MrScootch

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Guys is the only condition on anyone over 24 on the unrestricted A learner permit, that they must do their IBT and Test on a bike over 40kw.

For example if you done your test on a Yamaha WR450 and passed you'd have a full unrestricted A. The WR is 42.3KW http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_wr450f_2trac%2004.htm

You need to do IBT modules 1, 3 and 5 and your test on a bike that's at least 50Kw and at least 180Kg and at least 595cc.

Roadskill

MrScootch wrote: »

You need to do IBT modules 1, 3 and 5 and your test on a bike that's at least 50Kw and at least 180Kg and at least 595cc.

The min 50kw & 180kg is not due until November. Atm its min 40kw & over 595cc.
But you are correct about the ibt MrScootch

daenerysstormborn3

Does anyone know if there's going to be a time limit put in place by which you will have to exchange your current learner permit for the unrestricted learner permit? For example, will you have to do it within six months of 19th January or have to start all over again?

Roadskill

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there's going to be a time limit put in place by which you will have to exchange your current learner permit for the unrestricted learner permit? For example, will you have to do it within six months of 19th January or have to start all over again?

No time limit. Their won't be any old paper permits around 2 years from now anyway.

minidazzler

cantdecide wrote: »

News just in: My brother will have to do Mod 1 and Mod 3 as well as Mod 5.



What age are you, MD?

23 now, 24 in May, won't be doing the test til after then regardless.

kaimera

So a fzs600 restricted to 25kw is not suitable for an A2 test @ Finglas.

minidazzler

kaimera wrote: »

So a fzs600 restricted to 25kw is not suitable for an A2 test @ Finglas.

I will defer to others who probably know better, but take a stab at an answer from my reading...

No, it's not suitable, It's over 595 and an FZS600 unrestricted is 70 Kw, the bike is not allowed be restricted to less than half it's original power.

Even if it was 35 Kw I doubt it would be suitable, again because it's 599cc.

I'm almost certain I'm right, but if someone else says different, go with their answer.

http://www.magireland.org/a2-license-facts/

Roadskill

minidazzler wrote: »

I will defer to others who probably know better, but take a stab at an answer from my reading...

No, it's not suitable, It's over 595 and an FZS600 unrestricted is 70 Kw, the bike is not allowed be restricted to less than half it's original power.

Even if it was 35 Kw I doubt it would be suitable, again because it's 599cc.

I'm almost certain I'm right, but if someone else says different, go with their answer.

http://www.magireland.org/a2-license-facts/

If the LP is the old paper restricted A then there is no upper power limit for restriction but an A2 cert of competence would be issued on passing the test. This then makes any bike that is over 70Kw illegal on that licence. The cc of the machine won't matter as long as it comes into the A2 category
Motorcycles with a power rating not exceeding 35 kW, with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

Once you hand in your old permit for your application onto the A2 licence then the Fazer becomes illegal. One option would be to pass the test and then keep the cert of competence (Which last 2 years) until you change the bike to suit the full A2 licence, or the current paper LP runs out. Then apply for the full A2 licence. That would save having to buy a new bike straight away. It's an option.:o

minidazzler

Hey Roadskill, how long after doing the test can someone with a full A2 licence do IBT Module 5 If they are over 24?

Roadskill

minidazzler wrote: »

Hey Roadskill, how long after doing the test can someone with a full A2 licence do IBT Module 5 If they are over 24?

No requirement to wait. If over 24 apply for A LP then module 5 then test after 6 months or, wait 2 years on full A2 and do module 5 training upgrade after getting the A LP.

kaimera

minidazzler wrote: »

I will defer to others who probably know better, but take a stab at an answer from my reading...

No, it's not suitable, It's over 595 and an FZS600 unrestricted is 70 Kw, the bike is not allowed be restricted to less than half it's original power.

Even if it was 35 Kw I doubt it would be suitable, again because it's 599cc.

I'm almost certain I'm right, but if someone else says different, go with their answer.

http://www.magireland.org/a2-license-facts/

But nowhere in any of the docs for the fzs does it mention the original bhp.

If someone asked, how am I to know it's 70brake?

The instructor i did lessons with said the fzs wasn't on the list of UN-approved bikes. therefore it should have been ok.

All of a sudden my old 25kw restricted LP and bike is invalid cos they gave me a date after Jan 19th.

An appeal is under way to get to do the test as there is no mention of the bike needing to be 1/2 the hp if I chose option1 (the tester even said as much)

raging is what I am.

btw, I have my full A, I'm speaking for herself :mad:

[edit]
on that mag link, the fzs isn't even listed! limbo like. the fz6 is @ 98bhp.

cantdecide

kaimera wrote: »

But nowhere in any of the docs for the fzs does it mention the original bhp.

If someone asked, how am I to know it's 70brake?

The instructor i did lessons with said the fzs wasn't on the list of UN-approved bikes. therefore it should have been ok.

All of a sudden my old 25kw restricted LP and bike is invalid cos they gave me a date after Jan 19th.

An appeal is under way to get to do the test as there is no mention of the bike needing to be 1/2 the hp if I chose option1 (the tester even said as much)

raging is what I am.

btw, I have my full A, I'm speaking for herself :mad:

[edit]
on that mag link, the fzs isn't even listed! limbo like. the fz6 is @ 98bhp.

Bad buzz. I can only imagine how she feels.

Can anyone give an example of a bikes that are over 595cc but are less than 50KW before they were restricted to <exactly> 25KW? I can't think of many. I doubt she could get one from an instructor at this stage. Maybe some big cruisers and the like. The fact that so many people are already driving bikes that break the rules is seriously unfair.

Is it the case then that she can ride to the test centre on a bike that conforms with her restricted LP A, be turned away and ride home legally again? That's total poop. There should be some kind of temporary exception because a the vast majority of bikers have made their bike choices long before these new rules became public.

kaimera

Is it the case then that she can ride to the test centre on a bike that conforms with her restricted LP A, be turned away and ride home legally again?

Pretty much the case.

Wait till it expires and get a new LP and all the IBT etc etc.

Really well thought out rule changes. O.o

Yzf R6

Hi,was just wondering what the best option is for me at the minute regarding new licence options.30 years old
Yamaha R6
Got first Lerner permit in 2008/2009
No IBT needed at the time
Failed test last September (full A)
Licence expired last week (18-01-13)
Don't have the money at the minute to sit Mod5.
What licence should I be looking for under the new system which will enable me to keep riding my R6?
Thanks in advance?

Roadskill

Yzf R6 wrote: »

Hi,was just wondering what the best option is for me at the minute regarding new licence options.30 years old
Yamaha R6
Got first Lerner permit in 2008/2009
No IBT needed at the time
Failed test last September (full A)
Licence expired last week (18-01-13)
Don't have the money at the minute to sit Mod5.
What licence should I be looking for under the new system which will enable me to keep riding my R6?
Thanks in advance?

You need the A as the A2 won't allow you to ride the R6. You will need the full ibt i'm afraid cos you never did it before then you can ride unrestricted legally.
No way around it unless you change your bike and go the A2 route. If you want the A you will have to do ibt at some stage regardless.
A shame you failed your test mate. That would have solved it for you.

Mr Motorcycle

Yzf R6 wrote: »

Hi,was just wondering what the best option is for me at the minute regarding new licence options.30 years old
Yamaha R6
Got first Lerner permit in 2008/2009
No IBT needed at the time
Failed test last September (full A)
Licence expired last week (18-01-13)
Don't have the money at the minute to sit Mod5.
What licence should I be looking for under the new system which will enable me to keep riding my R6?
Thanks in advance?

First off you need to apply for the full A learner permit
You then need modules 1,3,5 total 18 hrs
before you can ride your bike on a public road.

you can only do the module 5 progression if you have done IBT before.

murphageegee

Hi I am 40y/o and I have been giving a 1998 bandit 600 from my brother to use for getting in and out of work. Now I have been looking into this new licence setup and I cannot figure out if I will be able to get a licence for this bike. I have applied for the theory test but that is all I have done so far. I have never had a bike before but hold full car licence 20 years.
Thanks

Mr Motorcycle

minidazzler wrote: »

I will defer to others who probably know better, but take a stab at an answer from my reading...

No, it's not suitable, It's over 595 and an FZS600 unrestricted is 70 Kw, the bike is not allowed be restricted to less than half it's original power.

Even if it was 35 Kw I doubt it would be suitable, again because it's 599cc.

I'm almost certain I'm right, but if someone else says different, go with their answer.

http://www.magireland.org/a2-license-facts/[/QUOTE]


It is suitable for the A2 test the limiting factor here is the restricted learner permit 25kws.

A2 criteria
min 395 cc
Max 35kws and not derived from double the horse power.

Hotblack Desiato

Crazy that people who had existing LPs are not 'grandfathered' around the new rules. That's never happened before. It's not acceptable that people are forced to do IBT etc. just to renew their LP, if they hold a LP for a given class they are entitled to renew it not have it changed into a more restrictive class.

Totally nuts that some people are being forced to either move up to A (do IBT and modules, $$$) or even sell their bike because it's not legal for A2.

I doubt any of this is legal, but who's got the money to take the government to court?

Roadskill

murphageegee wrote: »

Hi I am 40y/o and I have been giving a 1998 bandit 600 from my brother to use for getting in and out of work. Now I have been looking into this new licence setup and I cannot figure out if I will be able to get a licence for this bike. I have applied for the theory test but that is all I have done so far. I have never had a bike before but hold full car licence 20 years.
Thanks

Once you pass the theory test apply for the A learner permit.
Do the initial basic training modules 1, 3 & 5 total of 18hrs.
Take your test after holding you learner permit for 6 months then your done.
Easy as that for you but the car licence doesn't make any difference as it's a separate category.

Roadskill

ninja900 wrote: »

Crazy that people who had existing LPs are not 'grandfathered' around the new rules. That's never happened before. It's not acceptable that people are forced to do IBT etc. just to renew their LP, if they hold a LP for a given class they are entitled to renew it not have it changed into a more restrictive class.

Totally nuts that some people are being forced to either move up to A (do IBT and modules, $$$) or even sell their bike because it's not legal for A2.

I doubt any of this is legal, but who's got the money to take the government to court?

I agree with you on the unfairness on having to change the bikes to conform but them the rules and its not just here its the EU law.
I don't understand how you think the EU is acting illegally?
No one is being forced to do anything its a choice. The problem is that in a lot of cases that choice would mean selling the bike.

Hotblack Desiato

What the EU directive says and what Irish law says aren't always the same. It wouldn't be the first time the Irish govt. messed up in relation to motorcycling legislation.

What is wrong is taking away someone's existing right i.e. a 25kW restricted LP with no 'half the original power' limit. How is that a choice? Some people will lose out thousands of euro as a result.

When restricted licences were brought in in 1998, anyone with a provisional licence before that remained unrestricted and was allowed renew their unrestricted provisional.

Same thing with people who got light truck etc. by passing the car test years ago, they can't take that entitlement away even though nobody can get that licence by passing the car test any more.

kaimera

As it stands, anyone with an existing old A LP can drive around on a 25kw restricted 600cc bike legally but they may not be able take their A2 test on.

Roadskill

ninja900 wrote: »

What the EU directive says and what Irish law says aren't always the same. It wouldn't be the first time the Irish govt. messed up in relation to motorcycling legislation.

What is wrong is taking away someone's existing right i.e. a 25kW restricted LP with no 'half the original power' limit. How is that a choice? Some people will lose out thousands of euro as a result.

When restricted licences were brought in in 1998, anyone with a provisional licence before that remained unrestricted and was allowed renew their unrestricted provisional.

Same thing with people who got light truck etc. by passing the car test years ago, they can't take that entitlement away even though nobody can get that licence by passing the car test any more.

Exactly. They can't take away your entitlement if you have a full licence in that category. learner permits are only an entitlement to learn. That's why the learner permit replaced the provisional licence. Check out the link below to the UK Driving standards agency
the same as Ireland.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/motorcycle-test-vehicle-list/
I am not saying I agree but it is what it is and agreed since 2006 by the EU.

Hotblack Desiato

kaimera wrote: »

As it stands, anyone with an existing old A LP can drive around on a 25kw restricted 600cc bike legally but they may not be able take their A2 test on.

Yeah but sooner or later they'll need to take a test to renew their LP... And it's not clear that existing LPs won't be replaced with A2 LPs on renewal - and even if that was allowed, you can be certain some tax offices will get it wrong.

prunudo

ninja900 wrote: »

Crazy that people who had existing LPs are not 'grandfathered' around the new rules. That's never happened before. It's not acceptable that people are forced to do IBT etc. just to renew their LP, if they hold a LP for a given class they are entitled to renew it not have it changed into a more restrictive class.

Totally nuts that some people are being forced to either move up to A (do IBT and modules, $$$) or even sell their bike because it's not legal for A2.

I doubt any of this is legal, but who's got the money to take the government to court?

Agree with you that it's unfair and I'm sure that if new laws were brought in for car licenses meaning 10's of thousands of people had to sell their cars because over night they became illegal due to a technicality there would be uproar. Joe Duffy would have a field day.

In the long run I think the new licenses will be good especially for people starting out but it's the people on old learner A permits who are caught in the middle I feel sorry for.

Yzf R6

Thanks for the replies,but would I not be exempt from IBT considering I obtained the provisional licence pre IBT and have been fully insured on bikes for 5 year,3 of which were on my R6.Surely they can't ban me from driving my bike now unless I do an IBT,which I was previously exempt from.

kaimera

Yzf R6 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies,but would I not be exempt from IBT considering I obtained the provisional licence pre IBT and have been fully insured on bikes for 5 year,3 of which were on my R6.Surely they can't ban me from driving my bike now unless I do an IBT,which I was previously exempt from.

They can. You're legal to drive the bike until your LP expires

and I doubt the R6 is A2 legal to do the test on. Original power is more than 70kw?

Yzf R6

I understand what you're saying but the R6 is restricted,if that's the case there will be a lot of people forced to sell their bikes even though they have been riding perfectly legal for years.I will be renewing my licence on Tuesday so what will they give me in the new system and what would I be allowed ride?

kaimera

Yzf R6 wrote: »

I understand what you're saying but the R6 is restricted,if that's the case there will be a lot of people forced to sell their bikes even though they have been riding perfectly legal for years.I will be renewing my licence on Tuesday so what will they give me in the new system and what would I be allowed ride?

That's the point being made in previous posts. Rather ****ty for those with 'legacy' LPs as they are.

One of the instructors will tell you for sure but I think you'll get a A2 LP.

You're options then for test would be to un-restrict the r6 and do the IBT and get your full A.

Or take the test on a diff bike that conforms to a2 test spec and drive your restricted r6 afterwards. (which i think is still ok?)