N.I catholics gains massively on the protestant population

Madam

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I disagree. Northern Ireland a nation for Ulster Scots and for Gods sake let's keep them there. With a thirty foot guarded wall if needs be.

And us Ulster Scots from the Republic?

sanbrafyffe

cetainly not antrim as the unionist squeezed themselves as much as they could there,,,looking across at the so called mainland but unfortunately the mainland doesnt look back:D,,,,:Dnorth down has a protestant population merely where has south down has a nationalist merely but down could be a majority for nationalist soon enough ,,,dont think antrim ever will be thou as its like a can of sardines at the moment,,,,,but the overall thing is that nationalist will be the overall majority very very very soon ,,,census was done back in 2011,,

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because two counties, incidentally the two most urban counties are much more affordable for the UK to sustain. Also there's no chance of there being a nationalist majority in either Down or Antrim any time soon.

Iwasfrozen

robroy1234 wrote: »

Iwasfrozen - the British are experts at Gerrymandering and therefore are able to make out that a mere minority into a heaving majority. Just consider that places such a Derry City they were able to have Loyalists control the city council for years despite being outnumbered in the city 10 to 1.

Gerrymandering is a thing of the past, Northern Ireland is a representative democracy now.

junder

Madam wrote: »

Yet to the rest of the world you are indeed Irish.

My identity is not defined by the rest of the world

sanbrafyffe

ya wouldnt be only for the provos

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Gerrymandering is a thing of the past, Northern Ireland is a representative democracy now.

mcc1

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

ya wouldnt be only for the provos

I worry for you if you honestly believe that.

sanbrafyffe

no need..its da truth thou,,,where would the irish people be now if it wasnt for them,,,,,,,,,as much as i hate to say it with their ruthlessness

mcc1 wrote: »

I worry for you if you honestly believe that.

sanbrafyffe

m

mcc1

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

no need..its da truth thou,,,where would the irish people be now if it wasnt for them,,,,,,,,,as much as i hate to say it with their ruthlessness

Utter drivel, their whole aim was to archeive a United Ireland through violence they failed, and had to go into politics. All they did was set N.Ireland back 3 decades, along with other paramilitaries.

sanbrafyffe

Iwasfrozen

Madam wrote: »

And us Ulster Scots from the Republic?

What?

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

cetainly not antrim as the unionist squeezed themselves as much as they could there,,,looking across at the so called mainland but unfortunately the mainland doesnt look back,,,,:Dnorth down has a protestant population merely where has south down has a nationalist merely but down could be a majority for nationalist soon enough ,,,dont think antrim ever will be thou as its like a can of sardines at the moment,,,,,but the overall thing is that nationalist will be the overall majority very very very soon ,,,census was done back in 2011,,

You're mixing up catholic with nationalist. There is no evidence to suggest a nationalist majority any time in the near future.

ardmacha

Anybody that I have ever heard call themselves Northern Irish are in favour of the UK, it started out years ago as a more moderate Unionist thing. Best thing about it is both sides can share and identify with it without trouble. Next step is a new Northern Ireland flag.

Perhaps you should get out more, there are Nordies everwhere who are not Unionist.
Hopefully people will want what is best for Northern Ireland, not try and maintain a failed 400 year old colonial enterprise.

Next step is a new Northern Ireland flag.

Its hardly worth the effort.

sanbrafyffe

they wanted to force a united ireland because the way the orange state was treating them,backed by the british government,,,,bloody sunday started the ignition for the ira,,,polotics was suggested to the ira by the british government as they begged them to sway away from violence,even thou it stated in the green book to not give up military actions,,but after contesting elections they were surprised and seen the road to take and ordered all active service units to drop their arms at a given time and date in which they did

mcc1 wrote: »

Utter drivel, their whole aim was to archeive a United Ireland through violence they failed, and had to go into politics. All they did was set N.Ireland back 3 decades, along with other paramilitaries.

Iwasfrozen

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

ya wouldnt be only for the provos

There would twenty hundred more people alive if it wasn't for the provos too.

mcc1

ardmacha wrote: »

Perhaps you should get out more, there are Nordies everwhere who are not Unionist.
Hopefully people will want what is best for Northern Ireland, not try and maintain a failed 400 year old colonial enterprise.



Its hardly worth the effort.

You keep believing that, deep down you know you are lying to yourself.

Iwasfrozen

ardmacha wrote: »

Perhaps you should get out more, there are Nordies everwhere who are not Unionist.
Hopefully people will want what is best for Northern Ireland, not try and maintain a failed 400 year old colonial enterprise.

No failure at all mo chrara it's going quite well.

mcc1

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

they wanted to force a united ireland because the way the orange state was treating them,backed by the british government,,,,bloody sunday started the ignition for the ira,,,polotics was suggested to the ira by the british government as they begged them to sway away from violence,even thou it stated in the green book to not give up military actions,,but after contesting elections they were surprised and seen the road to take and ordered all active service units to drop their arms at a given time and date in which they did

British government begged them?!?! f that's what you want to believe lol ., When in actual fact they were filled to the hilt with informers, and going nowhere. British made them an offer for talks and they bit their hand off.... They backed down and talked to the British government. Even handed in all their arms when the British demanded it.

And for what? Support for a United Ireland is at an all time low, 3 decades of countless bombings and murders and they have got nowhere regarding it. So many lives destroyed for nothing.

sanbrafyffe

deep down you know you are lying to urself thinking that the british government wants you:D

mcc1 wrote: »

You keep believing that, deep down you know you are lying to yourself.

gurramok

mcc1 wrote: »

Its no surprise that 25% of people in N.Ireland call themselves Irish and that recent opinion polls from N.Ireland put support for a United Ireland at an average around the mid 20 twenties. It all adds up.

And for what? Support for a United Ireland is at an all time low, 3 decades of countless bombings and murders and they have got nowhere regarding it. So many lives destroyed for nothing.

45% wanted a United Ireland in a BBC\Belfast Telegraph poll, media which is hardly bastions of Irish Nationalism!(in case there were accusations of bias) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8567619.stm

Oh, the Irish identity came out tops too at 42%, which has to include Northern Irish when you compare to the census figures..

gurramok

junder wrote: »

The only identity I have ever denied being is irish

You're an Irish person from the North of Ireland hence Northern Irish, assuming you're telling the truth this time. If you are, it looks to me as you have denied any Britishness in your new identity through not picking that option in the census and that your opinion has been converted to the Nationalist side. Welcome aboard!

mcc1

gurramok wrote: »

45% wanted a United Ireland in a BBC\Belfast Telegraph poll, media which is hardly bastions of Irish Nationalism!(in case there were accusations of bias) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8567619.stm

Oh, the Irish identity came out tops too at 42%, which has to include Northern Irish when you compare to the census figures..

You mean this Belfast Telegraph from a few months ago, which more or less adds up with the new census results -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/border-poll-just-7-of-voters-would-say-yes-to-irish-unification-tomorrow-16170779.html

Just a quick snippet from that article-

Further analysis of the results suggests that the bulk of Catholics who want to remain within the UK do not currently vote — though some support the SDLP, Alliance, the Greens or one of the unionist parties.

The findings confirm the broad trend in other recent polls carried out by the province’s universities.

They show that support for Irish unity has been decreasing since 2006, despite a steady rise in the Sinn Fein vote.

And from their twitter

LucidTalk ‏@LucidTalk
NI Census backs up @LucidTalk's 2 recent NI polls: May & Nov 2012, particularly re. the border! Shows how accurate good polling now is!


OUCH

gurramok

mcc1 wrote: »

You mean this Belfast Telegraph from a few months ago, which more or less adds up with the new census results -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/border-poll-just-7-of-voters-would-say-yes-to-irish-unification-tomorrow-16170779.html

Just a quick snippet from that article-

Further analysis of the results suggests that the bulk of Catholics who want to remain within the UK do not currently vote — though some support the SDLP, Alliance, the Greens or one of the unionist parties.

The findings confirm the broad trend in other recent polls carried out by the province’s universities.

They show that support for Irish unity has been decreasing since 2006, despite a steady rise in the Sinn Fein vote.

And from their twitter

LucidTalk ‏@LucidTalk
NI Census backs up @LucidTalk's 2 recent NI polls: May & Nov 2012, particularly re. the border! Shows how accurate good polling now is!


OUCH

No ouch at all. Lucid obviously got their figures wrong and probably asked an unrepresentative portion of the population. The BBC poll, the census and the political vote disagrees with them.

mcc1

gurramok wrote: »

No ouch at all. Lucid obviously got their figures wrong and probably asked an unrepresentative portion of the population. The BBC poll, the census and the political vote disagrees with them.

:D:D Course they did... Your clutching at straws now. Stop looking at old polls and get with the times... Support for a United Ireland has been dropping for years and continues to drop every year.

O and the census vote clearly AGREES with their findings......

gurramok

mcc1 wrote: »

:D:D Course they did... Your clutching at straws now. Stop looking at old polls and get with the times... Support for a United Ireland has been dropping for years and continues to drop every year.

And support for Unionist parties who want to keep the Union(its in their parties name) has skyrocketed since...not.

mcc1

gurramok wrote: »

And support for Unionist parties who want to keep the Union(its in their parties name) has skyrocketed since...not.

Again who you vote for dosent mean anything, just like religion dosent mean anything now regarding a United Ireland. The census and all recent polls says everything we need to know. Its all there in black and white.

Maybe if you accept it you can maybe try and change peoples minds, otherwise your in for a very nasty shock if a border poll is ever called

gurramok

mcc1 wrote: »

Again who you vote for dosent mean anything, just like religion dosent mean anything now regarding a United Ireland.

Nope, who you vote for up north corresponds to which tribe you belong to on both sides, local issues take 2nd place. Agree on religion, it shouldn't be even considered as a basis on your political allegiance.

mcc1

gurramok wrote: »

Nope, who you vote for up north corresponds to which tribe you belong to on both sides, local issues take 2nd place. Agree on religion, it shouldn't be even considered as a basis on your political allegiance.

First things first out of a population of 1.8million only 661,753 voted in the last elections about 1/3, so its impossible to judge how any border poll would go by electoral results. A border poll would bring an overwhelming amount of people out if not nearly all. Going by the census results and opinion polls (which claim that a bulk of Catholics who support the UK don't even vote) an overwhelming amount would vote to remain in the UK.

All the opinion polls and census results which are far more accurate tell me everything I need to know. As a Unionist im very happy, its no wonder Peter Robinson was so confident last month in saying the majority of Catholics now support N.Ireland remaining in the UK;)

ardmacha

ll the opinion polls and census results which are far more accurate tell me everything I need to know. As a Unionist im very happy, its no wonder Peter Robinson was so confident last month in saying the majority of Catholics now support N.Ireland remaining in the UK

Can we have some of your happy juice? It would be very popular in the recession.

junder

gurramok wrote: »

You're an Irish person from the North of Ireland hence Northern Irish, assuming you're telling the truth this time. If you are, it looks to me as you have denied any Britishness in your new identity through not picking that option in the census and that your opinion has been converted to the Nationalist side. Welcome aboard!

So your an imposter then, hacked gurramoks account, because if you really are gurramok then you would know that we have had this tired old argument over and over again, for the millionth time I'm not Irish, I will never be irish, you will never force me to be Irish, I am British, I am northern Irish I am what ever I damn well choose to be the one thing I am not is Irish, now you show me in the few thousand odd posts I have made over the years where I have denied being either British or northern Irish, I can show you many where I have denied being irish.

Seaneh

junder wrote: »

So your an imposter then, hacked gurramoks account, because if you really are gurramok then you would know that we have had this tired old argument over and over again, for the millionth time I'm not Irish, I will never be irish, you will never force me to be Irish, I am British, I am northern Irish I am what ever I damn well choose to be the one thing I am not is Irish, now you show me in the few thousand odd posts I have made over the years where I have denied being either British or northern Irish, I can show you many where I have denied being irish.

Born on the Island of Ireland?

You're Irish, get over it.

Britain is an island east of Ireland, you weren't born there, you are not of there, you are not British. You are as much an Omelette or an Eskimo as you are British.

I could claim to be Mexican, but reality is I wasn't born in Mexico, so I'm not Mexican, no matter how much I want to be.

Iwasfrozen

Seaneh wrote: »

Born on the Island of Ireland?

You're Irish, get over it.

Britain is an island east of Ireland, you weren't born there, you are not of there, you are not British. You are as much an Omelette or an Eskimo as you are British.

I could claim to be Mexican, but reality is I wasn't born in Mexico, so I'm not Mexican, no matter how much I want to be.

But he was born in the British Isles. I know I know it's only a geographic term with no political meaning whatsoever. But then so is Ireland. How would you feel if someone told you you were British and to just get over it?

Galwayguy35

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

deep down you know you are lying to urself thinking that the british government wants you:D

You're right, and the average English person has a lot more in common with people in the Republic than in the North and we don't cost them anything unlike NI which has been draining money from Westminister for years.

I'll bet many a Btitish PM ofton secretly wished Llyod George had given the whole lot back in 1920.

Seaneh

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But he was born in the British Isles.

You mean he was born on the island of Ireland?

Good try, but in all, total fail. Try harder. Maybe try defrost before trolling.

From wikipedia:

Ireland is an island to the north-west of continental Europe. It is the third-largest island in Europe and the twentieth-largest island on Earth. To its east is the larger island of Great Britain, from which it is separated by the Irish Sea

Iwasfrozen

Seaneh wrote: »

You mean he was born on the island of Ireland?

Good try, but in all, total fail. Try harder. Maybe try defrost before trolling.

Yes the island of Ireland, that's the one. The second largest island in the archipelago of the British isles. Now no right minded person would call you British because they know the difference between geography and nationality.

Seaneh

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes the island of Ireland, that's the one. The second largest island in the archipelago of the British isles.

You mean the North Atlantic Archipelago, aka Britain and Ireland?

The British Isles are Great Britain, Isle of Man, The Hebrides, The Isles of Scilly, The Channel Islands and Shetland Islands.

Ireland is not British, in anyway, totally different Island.

Learn to geography.

Roast potatoes.

Seaneh wrote: »

Born on the Island of Ireland?

You're Irish, get over it.

Britain is an island east of Ireland, you weren't born there, you are not of there, you are not British. You are as much an Omelette or an Eskimo as you are British.

I could claim to be Mexican, but reality is I wasn't born in Mexico, so I'm not Mexican, no matter how much I want to be.

Stop trying to dictate to him what nationality he is. He is Human first and foremost. He has patriotic feelings and his own culture and beliefs. Why must you try and dictate to him what he is? Very fascist like mentality.

He doesn't agree with you on a United Ireland, perhaps you need to get over that? He obviously has a different cultural and ethnicity roots than you would do. So just leave him be. He just asks to be left alone.

Iwasfrozen

Seaneh wrote: »

You mean the North Atlantic Archipelago, aka Britain and Ireland?

The British Isles are Great Britain, Isle of Man, The Hebrides, The Isles of Scilly, The Channel Islands and Shetland Islands.

Ireland is not British, in anyway, totally different Island.

Learn to geography.

Yep that very same one. North Atlantic Archipelago is just another name for Brtish Isles. But understand British Isles doesn't imply British ownership of Ireland it's just a name. A geographic name with no political meaning. Which is exactly how Junder feels about Ireland. The island of Ireland is for him a purely geographic term, it means nothing to him just as the British isles means nothing to you. Just try and see things from other peoples point of view once and a while.

Seaneh

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yep that very same one. North Atlantic Archipelago is just another name for Brtish Isles. But understand British Isles doesn't imply British ownership of Ireland it's just a name. A geographic name with no political meaning. Which is exactly how Junder feels about Ireland. The island of Ireland is for him a purely geographic term, it means nothing to him just as the British isles means nothing to you. Just try and see things from other peoples point of view once and a while.

Born on the Island of Ireland = Irish.

Really is that simple.

Like I said, I could claim I am mexican or an omelette or japanese, but the reality is I was born on the island of Ireland, so I am neither mexican nor japanese nor 3 eggs beaten with a fork and cooked in a hot pan while pulling the solids from the edge to the centre. I am Irish, no matter how much I may wish to deny it.

And so is Junder, he is just as much an omelette or a Martian as he british, no matter how much he wants reality to be otherwise.

Iwasfrozen

Seaneh wrote: »

Born on the Island of Ireland = Irish.

Really is that simple.

Like I said, I could claim I am mexican or an omelette or japanese, but the reality is I was born on the island of Ireland, so I am neither mexican nor japanese nor 3 eggs beaten with a fork and cooked in a hot pan while pulling the solids from the edge to the centre. I am Irish, no matter how much I may wish to deny it.

And so is Junder, he is just as much an omelette or a Martian as he british, no matter how much he wants reality to be otherwise.

No it's not. Ireland in this context is a purely geographic term, it does not convey nationality. It can but it doesn't necessarily have to. Again no right minded person would call you British even though you were born in the British isles because they understand the difference between nationality and geography. I had to repeat this because you ignored it the first time.

Chuck Stone

Roast potatoes. wrote: »

So just leave him be. He just asks to be left alone.

Ya see the problem here is that Junder (or at least those who he identifies with) are not asking to be left alone. They are asking to freeze frame things as they are which is a left-over of when they had power and control and tried to preserve their dominant position at all costs.

Things change.

Change or be side-lined.

Roast potatoes.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ya see the problem here is that Junder (or at least those who he identifies with) are not asking to be left alone. They are asking to freeze frame things as they are which is a left-over of when they had power and control and tried to preserve their dominant position at all costs.

Things change.

Change or be side-lined.

Just because some one is from a Protestant/Unionist background doesn't mean they want to dominate or oppress anyone. I am sure Junder is no different. He is a Unionist (obviously) and presents the Unionist argument.

You might not like it but he is entitled to those opinions.

Chuck Stone

Roast potatoes. wrote: »

Just because some one is from a Protestant/Unionist background doesn't mean they want to dominate or oppress anyone.

I understand that.

I am sure Junder is no different. He is a Unionist (obviously) and presents the Unionist argument.

Well earlier you were claiming he is a human first which I agree with. There is no absolute truth 'unionist' view of the world.

You might not like it but he is entitled to those opinions.

I would defend anyone's right to have an opinion no matter how much I dislike it (I'm on record here as supporting Junder's right to identify himself as British and British only).

What I take exception to is people assuming that they have an un-challengeable privilege like flying their flag 24/7/365 over a city hall that the people who sit in do not agree with.

Crooked Jack

junder wrote: »

So your an imposter then, hacked gurramoks account, because if you really are gurramok then you would know that we have had this tired old argument over and over again, for the millionth time I'm not Irish, I will never be irish, you will never force me to be Irish, I am British, I am northern Irish I am what ever I damn well choose to be the one thing I am not is Irish, now you show me in the few thousand odd posts I have made over the years where I have denied being either British or northern Irish, I can show you many where I have denied being irish.

I always find it odd how unionism seems to be more about what youre not than what you are.

K-9

Seaneh wrote: »

Born on the Island of Ireland = Irish.

Really is that simple.

Like I said, I could claim I am mexican or an omelette or japanese, but the reality is I was born on the island of Ireland, so I am neither mexican nor japanese nor 3 eggs beaten with a fork and cooked in a hot pan while pulling the solids from the edge to the centre. I am Irish, no matter how much I may wish to deny it.

And so is Junder, he is just as much an omelette or a Martian as he british, no matter how much he wants reality to be otherwise.

Do not tell others what nationality they are or aren't, I think they will be the best judge of that, not you.

Fooker

I find it odd the large amount of "British" unionists who post here. Why do they post on an Irish forum to affirm they are British and more importantly NOT Irish?

I'm not especially confused about my identity and don't feel the need to post on "foreign" forums to affirm it. People cannot take it away from me and it doesn't suddenly diminish when someone takes down my fleg.

As said previously Unionism is probably more about what you aren't than what you are. It is a confused identity. I think it's sad that so many of a unionist have lost the dual identity of their ancestors and that they struggle so much with their Irishness and not feeling accepted by ordinary Brits.

I'm sure Freud would have come up with an interesting analysis of Unionism.

ardmacha

We have had this tired old argument over and over again, for the millionth time I'm not Irish, I will never be irish

I suppose the question which confuses many of us is why someone chooses to have no association with the place where they live? I think you will agree that this is rather unusual in the world.

murphaph

Seaneh wrote: »

Born on the Island of Ireland = Irish.

Really is that simple.

Not according to the laws of either Ireland or the United Kingdom it's not, no matter how much you want reality to be otherwise

Seaneh wrote: »

Like I said, I could claim I am mexican or an omelette or japanese, but the reality is I was born on the island of Ireland, so I am neither mexican nor japanese nor 3 eggs beaten with a fork and cooked in a hot pan while pulling the solids from the edge to the centre. I am Irish, no matter how much I may wish to deny it.

Babies of non-Irish parents would be Irish if born on the island. We changed our laws to prevent this. It takes more than that to be an Irish citizen these days.

Seaneh wrote: »

And so is Junder, he is just as much an omelette or a Martian as he british, no matter how much he wants reality to be otherwise.

His passport probably says otherwise It's not really any of your business what he wants to be or is or considers himself to be.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

A mod has already addressed this - people are free to choose their own identities, and as I am sure you are well aware, this is explicitly laid out in Northern Ireland's post-conflict institutions. So please stop with this line of discussion. I've deleted a few posts, but next time they will be infracted.

Also, some of the posts on the last two pages have been way too personal - please dial it down.

LordSutch

Was talking to a mate of mine in England last night and we got onto the subject of the Census. Makes you think when you hear about the Protestant Vs Catholic head count going on in Northern Ireland, while in England & Wales the big talking point is the breakdown between White British Vs Immigrant numbers. We agreed that the whole Protestant Vs Catholic thing seems like a left over from another century, like who gives a **** as to which shade of Christianity they are, they're all the same faith, and yet people need to know the breakdown . . . . .

mcc1

This is a very good article I saw mentioned on twitter, just about sums it up nicely -

Time for an End to the Convenient Lies of the Peace Process


People in Belfast like to be blasé about riots, as if they aren’t a big deal. Our gallows humour spawns #flegmovies memes on Twitter. But it’s OK to be frightened by riots. People in London are frightened by riots. People in Cape Town, where they are a more frequent occurrence than they are here, are frightened by riots. Riots are frightening because of their sheer unpredictability. The latest outbreak of Loyalist street violence is essentially leaderless, the DUP and paramilitaries long having since lost control. It is utterly unpredictable. It also fearsome in its capacity for violence, as the attack on police outside Naomi Long’s office demonstrated.

I am not only frightened but angry at the minute. This was not what I was promised from the new Northern Ireland. In that at least, both the middle-aged woman with her placard and I agree. I don’t think anyone expected it to be perfect. But we all expected a lot better than this. The problem is that we were all sold different interpretations of what the new dispensation meant. We are all learning that reality is not quite as advertised. On the political fringes, the disappointment is acute...

The full article is available at: http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/12/12/time-for-an-end-to-the-convenient-lies-of-the-peace-process/