October 2013

RunningKing

Hey jfh,

I was searching on the interweb regarding some 10k stuff and I came across a post you made on boards about 3 years back seeking advice to help break the sub 40 10k.

Now I'm reading that you are down to 36min for the 10k and 1:19 for the HM :eek:

What was the main change? Did you join that club or just do more intervals or ??

jfh

Gambas wrote: »

As William Bolter Yeats used to say,

I will arise and go now, and go to finish-line. In 9.58 seconds.

ay he used to say that all the time.
william bolter yeats ...brillant.

jfh

RunningKing wrote: »

Hey jfh,

I was searching on the interweb regarding some 10k stuff and I came across a post you made on boards about 3 years back seeking advice to help break the sub 40 10k.

Now I'm reading that you are down to 36min for the 10k and 1:19 for the HM :eek:

What was the main change? Did you join that club or just do more intervals or ??

i had forgotten about that, yes i found breaking 40 hard, but i was coming from a very basic level, never played sports either so no real speed.
i got some very good advice on here but no magic bullet i'm afraid.
did run with guys that were much better than me which brought me on a lot.
running on my own now, so maybe that why i'm finding it hard to make new progress.
of course, the more i ran, the better i got, the same for anyone else.
did very little speed work so got no injuries until 4 months ago.
there's loads of guys on here who have done the same & better, krusty's log is a perfect example of progress.
best of luck will follow your log with interest

jfh

Tues 12th
4 miles easy before work, not watch around 8:30 pace.

wednesday 13th
the big daddy of the mcmillan sessions, the dreaded 3*2 miles @ 10km pace.
this will go down in my memory as the night i smelt of dog pee.

I really wanted to hit this target for confidence so left nothing to chance, did this on a gravel track, figured the road would be too hard & i took the alloted 5 min too & brought the racers as back up. so nothing left to chance.

did the 1st & 2nd rep with mizuno alchemy shoes, really pushed hard to make 5:47 min/mile pace. changed into the mushas for the last rep, & felt like a new man. the difference between the 2 shoes was unbelievable.
the last rep was as easy as the first thanks to the shoe changes,

oh ya, how did i end up smelling of dog pee, well a dog walker failed to keep her mutt away from my running top, which i had left near a pole, served me right i suppose, begging for dogs pee if you leve something near a pole.
eventhough i yelled at her or squaked as i was running at my top speed. she was in another world yapping away on the phone, i could see this happening from the other side of the track, too late, saw the leg lift.
it got worse, she then decided to create a hurdle for me as she was one side of the track and the dog with long lead was on the other.
not sure who deserved a kick up the behind more..

it got so cold i had to put on same top for my cool down but i had a satisified grin on my face after matching the rep pace.
thursday 14th
rest, alot of driving that day so was very stiff that night.

friday 15th
woke up & legs had no life in them, i was running a 5 mile race saturday so figured the best thing to do was run hard, so ran mostly around 6:30 pace for 6 miles at 6:30 am. followed this by 4 *100m strides.
i know most people say that you should take it easy the day before the opposite seems to be the case with me. i've ran some of my best races the day after a hard run. i should add this has also blown up in my face so it's a theory i still need to investigate further.

jfh

Saturday 16th
i dont usually do races on saturday as it takes up most of the morning & i would usually be busy, but the stars aligned today for the ideal oppurtunity. it was a great morning so conditions perfect.
the cliffs of moher 5 miler beckoned. i was hopin gto keep all my splits matched to my goal race next weekend, surely if i could stick to 5:47 pace for 5 miles, i'd managed the last mile next week? in my head it made sense.
well that was the plan..
we got back just in time for the race so no time for a proper warm up, ran from the car to pick up numbers. didn't really matter as it was a low key affair. Stiff climb for the first mile, already the plan had gone out the window as i was breathing heavy & couldn't stick to my 5:45ish planned pace.
mile 1 was 6 min/mile dead on, the 2nd & 3rd mile were all down hill, pace around 5:30, the guys ahead pulled away from me, note to self, must get comfortable running fast, i was in 4th place(said it was a low key race):)
then we hit the hills on the return, just kept plugging away, passed on the guy in 3rd and was gaining on the guy in 2nd who had started to look back anxiously but i didn't have the mental strength to push on & settled for 3rd.
lack of race pain.
all in all was happy with it, great weather, great scenery & for a good cause.
course was a good bit short but i wasn't complaining when i was coming up the last hill!
Sunday 17th
meant to meet up with a few lads this morning for 12 miles but sick child put paid to that, got out later that evening with my first run with the missus, did 4 miles together, nearly 10 min miling & i added another 5 to that, so all in all i did 1:17 min for 9 miles, prety slow but legs were wrecked after it.
this slow running really takes it toll.
Monday 18th
no booze for Paddies, what have i turned into, it wasn't out of not trying, just couldn't get away. So met with another lad for 10 miles before 8. really quiet morning, not a soul around. great to get a bit of company, steady run & felt it for the last few miles, pushed it harder than if i ran alone. just goes to show i probably need to run with others when i can. then returned home & carbo loaded on choc cake, well if i couldn't get a pint i might have some enjoyment on St patricks day.
Tuesday 19th
2 mile WU, then 12 * 35 sec, 1 mile WD. really hammered the 35 sec, not sure of pace but i was going as fast as i could, but all splits were consistent.
not great top speed but i can keep a certain pace going for a good while.
all over the 200 m mark, not sure if this is counter productive as according to the Daniels book, i should be doing the 200's in 38 seconds, i was doing them in about 32-33 seconds.

DogSlySmile

Well done on getting third place. Always nice to get a podium no matter how low-key the race. What time did you end up with?

Did you think the hard day before the race was a good/bad thing? I usually find a hard-ish track session a few days before a race (not the day before!) can be pretty good for me on race day.

jfh

DSS, actually i think it was a good thing, i had done the 3 * 2 mile wed eve, sat in a car most of thursday so i figured i needed to get life back in the legs.
it wasn't an important race for me anyway so i could afford to try it.

time wise, i can't access it on the net at work but i think it was 25.25 ot thereabouts, it isn't an indication as the race was 4.2 miles .

you going to get back to that sub 35 goal soon? was enjoying those posts

DogSlySmile

Aye I'll be back attacking the 10k time once I get this ultra out of the way and then take a bit of rest before starting another plan. I'm gonna do some JD session and try and do all the McMillan 10k sessions too over the summer. I just set up the new log to get a wee bit more publicity for the charity.

pconn062

jfh wrote: »

DSS, actually i think it was a good thing, i had done the 3 * 2 mile wed eve, sat in a car most of thursday so i figured i needed to get life back in the legs.
it wasn't an important race for me anyway so i could afford to try it.

time wise, i can't access it on the net at work but i think it was 25.25 ot thereabouts, it isn't an indication as the race was 4.2 miles .

you going to get back to that sub 35 goal soon? was enjoying those posts

Never tell anyone the course was short, a 25 minute 5 miler sounds much better!!

jfh

pconn062 wrote: »

Never tell anyone the course was short, a 25 minute 5 miler sounds much better!!

in fairness when i checked the time after finishing the race, i knew i hadn't improved that much..

jfh

lucky this is a taper week for my 10km as my running has been very sporadic.
i didn't get out wednesday, was factoring one rest day in so it may as well be that day.
then a combination of a sick child & missus returning to work hit me like a ton of bricks. all along i thought i was time short but right now i don't know how running is going to fit in, there will have to be changes..

Thursday was an exhausting day between work & sick child, could have got out after 9 but figured rest is more important now

friday 22nd
30 min on treadmill during lunch, incl 6 * 1 min fast.
just to get legs moving again.

RunningKing

Congrats on the 3rd place - great running.

How'd the legs feel after doing the 3x2 the previous Wednesday?

jfh

actaully not too bad, this might be down to the fact that i ran it on a gravel track with support runners. i found other sessions to be harder than this one.

jfh

really quick update as i'll be away for a few days & the memory of my race will be a distant speck in the distance.
well after about 10 weeks, alternating between running on treadmills, grass, spinning & even one aqua jogging venture, i completed my goal 10km injury free with a new pb.
followed the mcmillian ultimate plan & fleshed it out with the odd jack daniels tempo run. I set upon 5:45 pace right at the start 8 weeks ago & struggled to hit all sets in the very first session, but after a consistent few weeks, completed them all. the uncanny thing about this is i managed to hit those repeats around the 5:47 mark, didn't really look at the watch during the race, usually i'd pace myself of it, but decided to try to hold onto a guy that usually finishes just before me, this tactic worked.
new PB and avg pace of 10km was 5:46 min mile so happy out.

RunningKing

jfh wrote: »

really quick update as i'll be away for a few days & the memory of my race will be a distant speck in the distance.
well after about 10 weeks, alternating between running on treadmills, grass, spinning & even one aqua jogging venture, i completed my goal 10km injury free with a new pb.
followed the mcmillian ultimate plan & fleshed it out with the odd jack daniels tempo run. I set upon 5:45 pace right at the start 8 weeks ago & struggled to hit all sets in the very first session, but after a consistent few weeks, completed them all. the uncanny thing about this is i managed to hit those repeats around the 5:47 mark, didn't really look at the watch during the race, usually i'd pace myself of it, but decided to try to hold onto a guy that usually finishes just before me, this tactic worked.
new PB and avg pace of 10km was 5:46 min mile so happy out.

Thats a savage time - well done and great committment. 5:46/mile. super stuff.

jfh

quick update, since the race, i have had a hit & miss return to training.
picked up a cold that progressively worse as i continued running & working on farm in the evening so didn't give myself a chance to recover.
this brutal weather is not helping, altough i was up in dublin for a day last week & have to admit it's far colder up there.
the key sessions;
27 march
5* 2km(5:30 min mile) on treadmill with 90 sec recovery.
morale boosting session as i failed to do this exact one on the 7th march.
29 march
4 mile WU, 6 miles @ current HMP(6:10) , 7 miles WD.
longest run for well over a year, took a wrong turn & added a few miles to intended route. last mile felt tough, just not used to running longer than 1 hr, this was 2 hours, straight into work afterwards to recover.
ankle was sore afterwards eventough i wore my new mizuno ultima runners.
30 march
6 miles easy with 6 * 100m strides.
31 march
hungover, hate missing my sunday runs, but i got my long run done on friday so not all is lost.
1st April
another run straight from the Time to run sub 35 min 10km
6x1k R60 3min20. 8 miles in total.

jfh

3 april
2 miles WU, 3 miles T pace on hilly course, 3 miles WD, 6 * 100m strides
4th april
4 miles easy
5th april
6 km race, then 5 * 1km with 1 min recovery @ 10km pace
trying to build up endurance so did this little session after race, race was just over 5km, so waay short. race on a lot of concrete so legs sore
6 April
40 min recovery run in trail
7 april
took this one for tergat's old posts, 3 * 1.5 mile @ HMP pace with 2 min rec.
upped the recoveries to 3 min as was feeling sore after friday nights efforts.
plan is to do a 10 mile race next week, so tried to keep the pace at 6min/mile for the intervals
13.5 miles in total.

jfh

8th april
off, PTT sore after sundays efforts, this is really taking a long while to heal
9th April
4 miles steady, then 16 * 2 sec full pelt, 1 mile WD.
got a 10 mile race sunday so unsure off how to play it, never gone under the hour.
i have bad memories of last year, went though the 5 mile mark around 30 mile & then completley died to finish over 61 minutes.

RunningKing

Based on the 10k time, you should be very close......

jfh

yes that's what i'm thinking, it's the kilnaboy 10 miler though, it's a toughie.
hardest of the 4 munster 10 mile series.

jfh

wanted a session to prepare the body for sunday, so l had a peek at krusty log(great resourse) pre ballycotton & the general consensus was 8 * 1 mile would replicate that, makes sense.
to show how dedicated i was, took 1 30 min annual leave. still cutting it fine between changing & showering & had to pick up kids from baby sitter after work. my choice was make, the treadmill. 2 miles warm up, then 7 * 1 mile @ T pace(5:59) with 1 min recoveries.
i think the road might have been a tougher session & not sure if i would have been able to keep the pace on anything with hills but there's advantages to the treadmill too.
session done, felt very weak, like how i used to feel when i just took up running after a long run, so maybe gycline too low?

DogSlySmile

Sounds like a pretty tough session to be doing four days before a race man! I know its tempting to do a run like that to build confidence before race day but something a little less intense might have been more appropriate leaving you fresher to give it everything on Sunday. Just my take on things of course! :cool: And I'd be careful of borrowing sessions from runners like KC, he was knocking out 100 mile weeks not too long ago so something that suits a person doing that kind of high mileage wont necessarily mean it will suit everybody.

Best of luck on Sunday though, your training has been going great... even with farm work and kids to contend with! :eek:

jfh

thanks DSS, yeah it really knocked the stuffing out of me, but in reality it's all training for the limerick half, the 10 miler is just a distraction, still i'd like to get under the hour.

jfh

beginning to think you might be right DDS, havn't fully recovered from that session. ankle has come at me,but if it's any way sore i'm going to skip the 10 mile race, it was only a warm up for the half. might be better off doing a long slow run.

thursday 11th
AM 4 miles very easy, was very stiff after the exertions the previous day
PM 5 miles very easy, didn't feel like this but did it to keep milage up.

Friday 12th
ankle still sore & very tired after baby deciding 4 am was wakie wakie time.
beautiful day out but decided against a recovery run as ankle needs time out.
instead i went on the stepper machine for 30 min at lunch. a new kind of brutality, gym was warm, no fresh air & i set it to max effort.
this has to be good for the hill runs.:eek:

jfh

14th april
awoke at an ungodly hour to dawn chorus & my little one making a racket, it was still dark but by the time i'd eat & drive out to farm, it would be bright.
what a beautiful morning, might be an ungodly hour but nature was busy. one of the first mornings all spring where grass was growing. everything was starving though, it's been a tough old month on the animals, there's running in here somewhere, keep reading
finally got my orthitics so it was time to give them a whirl especially as i was going to wear them for a race tomorrow, they felt very snug, could not foresee any complications..
did an easy 3 mile, not a soul on the roads, very enjoyable run. the weather forecast was predicting this to turn nasty, couldn't see any sign of it.

15th april
i had planned on doing a race today, except i don't think my heart was in it, went to the munster game, one thing lead to another, and before i know it i was drinking stella cidre, i have admit a very nice cider. i would normally be more disciplined but after a very long day, tired mind & the thoughts of going back to kilnaboy where i died a thousand deaths last year, i was easily lead astray but the blooming wind, i could deal with anything else bar that wind.
To add to my dilemma, I was in the players lounge & never felt so out of place which lead me to drink even faster than normal. running is not a discipline that lends itself to an Adonis like figure, felt a scrawny rat among thoroughbred athletics.
woke up with a change of heart, no i wasn't going to jack in the old running for the rugby but decided to do a 10km race instead.
more to follow on this race, her Majesty awakens

jfh

15th April
The race, so i woosed out of the kilnaboy 10, i wanted to have a good session so as luck would have it, a local 10km beckoned. The plan was to keep all my miles under 6 min mile.
The weather was turning against me, very windy, thankfully i didn’t go West. All the big boys were away so there was myself & a guy who’s a good bit better than me, i’d let him off & try to stick with the plan, but the first 2 miles were surprisingly fast,( didn’t realise i had the wind at my back until i turned into it), 3rd & 4th mile were way too slow, leader was about 100m in front of me, i just wanted to try and not let this lead extend, hard to race into the wind with nobody around me, 3rd guy was over 400m behind me.
Then i hit mile 5 and took a wrong turn, although the junction was stewarded, both “stewards” were oblivious to the fact that i had gone wrong. I do appreciate these people who give up their time to do these events but if you have gone to the trouble of volunteering, you may as well do it right. Luckily i had on gone about 40m, some would say that was hardly lost at all, but it really knocked the stuffing out of me & the fact that i wore my new orthotics & were now causing serious blisters, i just wanted to get home. I went into autopilot for the last mile, thinking i’ve got a good bit of work to do for the limerick half.

With about a mile to go, i came to another junction, wasn’t going to make the same mistake so shouted at the guy for direction, he didn’t know. :eek:

He thought it was one way but the leader & guard car had gone another way. This was a turn up for the books, going from about 150 m behind the first guy, i was now 200m infront of him, he had got lost!
So without thinking, if i had thought, i would have come around to the fact that this is probably my once in a life time opportunity to win a race, i had loads of energy as i was practically jogging before this, but it would have felt like cheating, i waited for the “leader” to catch up & we jogged to the line, i then told him to sprint away as in reality he would have won it easily had he not got lost.
Don’t think he trusted me as he kept looking around him for the last few metres thinking that i was playing a joke on him & would sprint past him at the right opportunity. I eased over the line in 38:38 for 10.35km.

These low key races are an ideal training session for me as there’s no way i could go out and run 6 sub 6 min miles, I just did not have the strength in me, so hope to do plenty of tempo runs between now & 5th may.

belcarra

Fair play jfh, very decent of you letting the other guy win!

I agree about the volunteers but wouldn't be as diplomatic as you were. There really is no point in devoting their time if they are not gonna do their job. They may as well be at home watching TV for all the good they are doing!

DogSlySmile

What the f@ck!?!? You got lost, you felt hard done by. But then the leader got lost, the universe is now in balance so go for the f@cking win!!

Fair play to ya though man, I don't think I would have done the same in your situation :eek:

jfh

DogSlySmile wrote: »

What the f@ck!?!? You got lost, you felt hard done by. But then the leader got lost, the universe is now in balance so go for the f@cking win!!

Fair play to ya though man, I don't think I would have done the same in your situation :eek:

dont have that killer instinct, must work on it

jfh

mon 15th
30 min easy on golf course, left out orthotics
Tues 16th
again went with out the orthotics, this was a beautiful evening & for once i wasn't in a rush to collect kids. so did a decent session
2x[400 (5km pace) (100 rec), 1200 (10km pace) (200 rec), 3200 Tempo pace (5 min rec] . this innocuous little session turned out to be far harder than it looked on paper, looking back it was the start of my cold.
11.55 miles in total, delighted to get the miles in mid week.
Wed 17th
treadmill session during lunch, 2 miles WU, 2 miles T pace, 2 miles WD
Thursday 18th
8 hilly miles in brutal weather, this was a mistake, felt sick before starting but of course i used the time when i got it.
Fri 19th
finally succumbed to this cold, light headed all day at work, altough one of the nicer evenings, no running:(
Sat 20th
meant to be meeting up with a buddy for a decant run but felt too wrecked. after a few hours working outside on farm, felt better, & went for a handy 9 miles myself.
Sun 21th
still choked up but not in chest & not lightheaded so deteremined to get decent half marathon run in. Thankfully i had someone to run with otherwise i wouldn't have done such a session;
3(10 min T pace with 3 min recoveries)
weather gods turned on me again, what began as a beautiful morning changed to be one of the worst showers i have been out in for a long time.
this week has been worse than any week over the winter.