OUTDOOR SOCKET WITH RCD

Milltown17

hi
Im looking for some advice in relation to getting a outdoor socket with rcd protection built into it.could someone help me with some info in where is the cheapest place to buy one.

paddy147

Milltown17 wrote: »

hi
Im looking for some advice in relation to getting a outdoor socket with rcd protection built into it.could someone help me with some info in where is the cheapest place to buy one.

You will get an IP Rated outdoor double socket with RCD in any electrical wholesalers for not too much mney...comapred to DIY superstores.

Also get an internal switch installed,so you can isolate the power to the outdoor socket,so nobody can get free electricity/power off you,when you are out of the house or away on holidays.

jjf1974

They are selling these sockets @ meteor electric for 76 euro plus vat,not sure what they are like,but at least this is a guide price.

paddy147

jjf1974 wrote: »

They are selling these sockets @ meteor electric for 76 euro plus vat,not sure what they are like,but at least this is a guide price.

Are you mad or what????




36 quid sterling including vat......45 euro.


http://www.screwfix.com/p/nexus-13a-2g-rcd-switched-socket/91095;jsessionid=3HMYQHhTQ0P1pGJlbFvQGFnbZhyh8gG3B17G45kk7mbSRGVDQpZK!-1657872104




43 euro delievered

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-Outdoor-Electric-RCD-SOCKET-Weatherproof-Waterproof-/181001470812?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Electrical_Fittings_MJ&hash=item2a2487435c

paddy147

jjf1974 wrote: »

They are selling these sockets @ meteor electric for 76 euro plus vat,not sure what they are like,but at least this is a guide price.

52 euro 29 cents to Ireland with Meteor.


Double outdoor RCD socket

http://www.meteorelectrical.com/weatherproof-2-gang-ip55-rcd-socket.html

Bruthal

Not much point putting a separate RCD for an outside socket unless the intention is to wire it right back to the DB board, which is a lot of work for an outside socket in most cases.

Cerco

Aldi or Lidl had a full DIY kit recently priced at €25.

gerryo

Cerco wrote: »

Aldi or Lidl had a full DIY kit recently priced at €25.

Have one of these, works quite well, comes with screws & plastic plugs.
Seems quite well made.

RCD plugs into a 13A socket & you can trip it out to ensure no one steals your electricity when you are not home.

paddy147

RCD outdoor double socket kit.

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_24491.htm


http://www.screwfix.com/p/nexus-outdoor-power-ip66-socket-kit/78690


http://radionics.rs-online.com/web/p/rcd-sockets/6997105/

paddy147

Question for the electricians here about this kit....

http://www.handyhardware.ie/product/14089/SMJ-EP1001-Weather-Ready-Outdoor-P


It says 3 meters of 3 core 1.25mm lead


Surely 1.25mm is not enough if you wanted to use a lawnmower or a garden vac or an electric drill outside in the garden???


2.5mm would be for a socket and outdoor garden/power tools,would it not??

Bruthal

1.25 should be fine for using lawn mowers etc. I have 2 3kw kettles here, which both have 3 x 1 square flexes.

2.5 is the required cable for the permanent wiring of fixed circuits. That size can in fact carry a fair bit more than 20 amps continuous, so the 2.5 protected with 20 amps gives a margin.


People using plug in RCD`s on socket circuits that already have RCD protection, are wasting money on unnecessary items. Any RCD tripping faults will trip both, removing any advantage of the plug in one.

paddy147

Well I learned something new today so.

Thanks Robbie.:)

M cebee

yes these rcd sockets aren't needed much
not if you're wiring from an rcd protected socket anyhow

paddy147

M cebee wrote: »

yes these rcd sockets aren't needed much
not if you're wiring from an rcd protected socket anyhow

Or seperately back to the mains board.


Which is what I did thanks to you guys here,:)

gerryo

There can be an advantage with a "double RCD" if one of the RCD's is more sensitive than the other.
The most sensitive RCD trips first, the other one will not.

Seen this happen may times.
Just make sure the more sensitive RCD is nearest the appliance or socket likely to cause a trip.

M cebee

gerryo wrote: »

There can be an advantage with a "double RCD" if one of the RCD's is more sensitive than the other.
The most sensitive RCD trips first, the other one will not.

Seen this happen may times.
Just make sure the more sensitive RCD is nearest the appliance or socket likely to cause a trip.

dunno about that really
it's not standard practise or anything

jjf1974

Not much sence to having 2 rcds on the one circuit. I wonder how long these rcds are effective for in the damp irish climate. I think an rcdb in your board would be a better solution, this can be turned of if you think someone will steal you power.

2011

gerryo wrote: »

There can be an advantage with a "double RCD" if one of the RCD's is more sensitive than the other.

What is the advantage?

Just make sure the more sensitive RCD is nearest the appliance or socket likely to cause a trip.

Normally RCDs for sockets are selected so that I∆n=30mA.
There are a few limited exceptions (such as hospitals), but even in these cases it would not be normal to have 2 RCDs in series.

What RCD values are you suggesting, and why?

Bruthal

gerryo wrote: »

There can be an advantage with a "double RCD" if one of the RCD's is more sensitive than the other.
The most sensitive RCD trips first, the other one will not.

Seen this happen may times.
Just make sure the more sensitive RCD is nearest the appliance or socket likely to cause a trip.

If one rcd will trip at 25 ma, and the other at 30, a greater than 30 ma fault will likely trip both, not just the 28 ma one. A 29 ma inbalance will just trip the downstream one, but that is unlikely to occur in such a manner.

The main one is more likely to trip earlier anyway, as it may already have leakage current from multiple circuits on it causing a few milli amps imbalance during normal use.

So picking which is more sensitive as the outdoor socket one is both pointless, and not as obvious to determine, unless you use a tester on unloaded RCD`s.

Imo, the second downstream one is pointless.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

What RCD values are you suggesting, and why?

I think the poster is saying which ever one of the two 30ma rated ones is more sensitive, put that downstream, for discrimination. One will be more sensitive than the other alright, but the margin would be very small.

Pointless anyway, since both will trip in just about any fault unless one is faulty.

Maybe he was talking about two different rated ones, I dont know. Any less than 30 ma is not needed, and still both will probably trip with most faults, any higher, and its too high to perform their safety function.

They need time delays for proper discrimination, and with a time delay, again the safety function is removed.

paddy147

jjf1974 wrote: »

Not much sence to having 2 rcds on the one circuit. I wonder how long these rcds are effective for in the damp irish climate. I think an rcdb in your board would be a better solution, this can be turned of if you think someone will steal you power.

Or you could install this on the inside inside the porch/house..so that you can see/remember that the power is on or off.:)

I have my front garden and back garden double outdoor sockets wired back to the mains,and have a 2 gang double pole switches on the inside kitchen wall for the back garden sockets (lights and waterfall pump) and then a neon fused spur switch in the front porch for the front garden sockets..


This way you dont have to worry about go back and fowards to the mains board to trip out the RCD to cut the power.

gerryo

robbie7730 wrote: »

I think the poster is saying which ever one of the two 30ma rated ones is more sensitive, put that downstream, for discrimination. One will be more sensitive than the other alright, but the margin would be very small.

Pointless anyway, since both will trip in just about any fault unless one is faulty.

Maybe he was talking about two different rated ones, I dont know. Any less than 30 ma is not needed, and still both will probably trip with most faults, any higher, and its too high to perform their safety function.

They need time delays for proper discrimination, and with a time delay, again the safety function is removed.

Sorry for not clarifying this, I was referring to the "13A plugtop" type RCD's that are used to prevent tripping the main RCD.
I've seen these work well for steam irons, which always develop leaks after a few months use
Always tripped before the main RCD, saved a lot of walking back to the board.

These are also used for electric lawnmowers, & other electric garden tools that might be likely to get damp.

M cebee

gerryo wrote: »

Sorry for not clarifying this, I was referring to the "13A plugtop" type RCD's that are used to prevent tripping the main RCD.
I've seen these work well for steam irons, which always develop leaks after a few months use
Always tripped before the main RCD, saved a lot of walking back to the board.

These are also used for electric lawnmowers, & other electric garden tools that might be likely to get damp.

-dunno about all that
doesn't make much sense to me anyhow

frankmul

gerryo wrote: »

Sorry for not clarifying this, I was referring to the "13A plugtop" type RCD's that are used to prevent tripping the main RCD.
I've seen these work well for steam irons, which always develop leaks after a few months use
Always tripped before the main RCD, saved a lot of walking back to the board.

These are also used for electric lawnmowers, & other electric garden tools that might be likely to get damp.

I think that plug type RCD are made to BS7071, which states that the maximum tripping time is 200ms for 30mA fault. The RCD in your board should be to EN60061 which states that the maximum tripping time for a 30mA fault is 300ms. This might be enough for discrimination.

M cebee

[Quotetgey=frankmul;82503957]

I think that plug type RCD are made to BS7071, which states that the maximum tripping time is 200ms for 30mA fault. The RCD in your board should be to EN60061 which states that the maximum tripping time for a 30mA fault is 300ms. This might be enough for discrimination.[/Quote]
-they might trip first in his case-but it's not guaranteed

-damp in garden tools. how much of a problem is that?
aren't they mostly 2-wire appliances?

frankmul

M cebee wrote: »

-they might trip first in his case-but it's not guaranteed

I agree

I don't see the need for 2 RCDs on the one circuit. One is enough

gerryo

M cebee wrote: »

-they might trip first in his case-but it's not guaranteed

Agreed - but after much use it appears to trip first every time.
Sure made my life a lot easier every time that iron leaks water

M cebee wrote: »

-damp in garden tools. how much of a problem is that?
aren't they mostly 2-wire appliances?

The earth is extended out to the socket, who knows what will be
plugged in. E.g., a household vacuum cleaner to clean the car & gets
a bit damp after a light shower.

M cebee

yes it might trip first

-the trip time on your 'main rcd' could be slow

-nuisance tripping on 2-wire appliances shouldn't be a common occurence imo