Nice guys should just accept bachelorhood?

beks101

Of all the 'nice guys' I've dated, here's what I've dealt with:

- guy who didn't initiate any physical contact or try to kiss me in the entire four dates we went on, and then acted completely hard-done by when I ended it because I just wasn't feeling anything. If you wait that long with a girl, how can you expect anything but the friendzone?

- guy who didn't have the balls to initiate ANYTHING. I had to decide where we were going for all our dates, I had to text first, I had to call first etc... because he was 'shy and awkward'...then acted completely shocked when I called it a day, because he 'really liked me'. Really? Grow a pair, maybe?

- guy who thought he'd found himself a life partner after a random night-out drunken hook up, flooded my phone with texts, brought an 'extra coat' on our first date 'in case I get cold', asked me out repeatedly within an hour of our first date, generally freaked the **** out of me with his over-eager behaviour when it was so early that I hadn't even had a chance to figure out how I felt about him.

All of these guys would have been described by anyone as 'nice guys'. Lack of balls guy was popular with everyone, even when I told people about his lack of effort despite having told everyone he was 'crazy about me', I got 'ah, he's just casual like that, give him a chance', 'but he's such a nice guy! He's just a really bad texter / indecisive' etc etc...

The fact is, most ladies like assertive, confident, forward guys. Guys who aren't afraid to express how they feel, take the bull by the horns and flirt with you, initiate physical contact, kiss you, WITHOUT over-stepping boundaries or coming on too strong too soon - this requires good body language, an ability to flirt and to read social cues.

All too often these 'nice guys' are the passive, bitter, socially awkward ones who have spent their lives projecting their insecurities on the women they meet and every new woman is just another one to add on the list of why 'women never go for nice guys'. When in reality that woman is more than likely just fed up and totally turned off by their lack of balls in seducing/pursuing her and gives up early in the game - thus fulfilling his self-fulfilling prophecy.

And of course, no-one sets out to meet an asshole. It just so happens that the arrogance that causes assholery in a guy, can disguise itself as confidence/assertiveness/charm and that's what draws girls to them.

smash

up for anything wrote: »

There are some lovely attitudes towards women here. :rolleyes: I can see why some of you spend so much time on AH and Boards in general because no self-respecting woman would want to be with you.

And dumbest post of the day goes to....

up for anything

smash wrote: »

And dumbest post of the day goes to....

That's 7 days in a row. Is there a prize?

Rubber_Soul

Nice Guy Syndrome

A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior.

He is too stupid to realize the reason women don’t find him attractive is because he feels sorry for himself, he concludes that women like to be treated like ****.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nice%20guy%20syndrome

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I have been called a nice guy and I have been called an asshole. I dont know what I am. I'm just me I suppose, it's people's definition and perception of me that vary, I don't think I change.

I know "nice guys" that are in long term healthy relationships and I know "assholes" who are single.

Video blogger needs a slap though.

UCDVet

Here's how it works.

Sally is really unattractive, but a nice enough person.
Cathal is kind of unattractive, but a nice enough person.
Amy is kind of attractive, and a nice enough person.
James is pretty attractive and a nice enough person.

Cathal doesn't feel comfortable approaching women. Besides, only 'jerks' use lame lines and try to pick up girls. And when he has had enough to drink, he's socially awkward and strikes out. Over time, he's gotten to know Amy. He really likes Amy, but he thinks it's a big secret and is just friends.

Because he's attracted to her and wants to date her, he does lots of nice things for her. Listens to her, helps her with stuff, remembers her birthday. Whatever. And he watches her date guys who don't treat her nearly as well.

Cathal decides 'Nice guys finish last'.

Meanwhile....Amy really likes James. He's amazing. But he doesn't even notice her. He's popular and dreamy, and always dating some perfect girl. She'd give anything to go out with him. Cathal? She doesn't really think of him like that.

Meanwhile....Sally really likes Cathal. He's amazing. But he doesn't even notice her. He's popular and dreamy, always hanging around with that super-cute Amy girl.

Cathal doesn't even notice that his friend Sally really likes him....but he doesn't want to see it. Sally is kinda ugly and not very popular. He doesn't think they have a lot in common. Maybe, one time, at a party, after some drinks, they might even mess around; but it's not like 'a thing'. She's just a friend.

Sally, she thinks guys are all assholes. She had a crush on Cathal for years; then one night he got drunk and messed around with. Then he didn't call her. Instead he wants to be with Amy. What a pig.

Amy, after creaming herself when James called her is now crying because, they went out for a few weeks, but found out James dropped her like a bad habit. It turns out James was lusting after some other girl. Amy is convinced all men are assholes.

James admits he left Amy. But so what? That's what people do. Plus, he's still jaded because his first girlfriend treated him like crap. That's when he decided women are all bitches.

smash

benwavner wrote: »

I have been called a nice guy and I have been called an asshole. I dont know what I am.

You're a nice guy but I wouldn't want to cross you! Kinda like Bruce Banner!

Scanlas The 2nd

beks101 wrote: »

Of all the 'nice guys' I've dated, here's what I've dealt with:

- guy who didn't initiate any physical contact or try to kiss me in the entire four dates we went on, and then acted completely hard-done by when I ended it because I just wasn't feeling anything. If you wait that long with a girl, how can you expect anything but the friendzone?

- guy who didn't have the balls to initiate ANYTHING. I had to decide where we were going for all our dates, I had to text first, I had to call first etc... because he was 'shy and awkward'...then acted completely shocked when I called it a day, because he 'really liked me'. Really? Grow a pair, maybe?

- guy who thought he'd found himself a life partner after a random night-out drunken hook up, flooded my phone with texts, brought an 'extra coat' on our first date 'in case I get cold', asked me out repeatedly within an hour of our first date, generally freaked the **** out of me with his over-eager behaviour when it was so early that I hadn't even had a chance to figure out how I felt about him.

All of these guys would have been described by anyone as 'nice guys'. Lack of balls guy was popular with everyone, even when I told people about his lack of effort despite having told everyone he was 'crazy about me', I got 'ah, he's just casual like that, give him a chance', 'but he's such a nice guy! He's just a really bad texter / indecisive' etc etc...

The fact is, most ladies like assertive, confident, forward guys. Guys who aren't afraid to express how they feel, take the bull by the horns and flirt with you, initiate physical contact, kiss you, WITHOUT over-stepping boundaries or coming on too strong too soon - this requires good body language, an ability to flirt and to read social cues.

All too often these 'nice guys' are the passive, bitter, socially awkward ones who have spent their lives projecting their insecurities on the women they meet and every new woman is just another one to add on the list of why 'women never go for nice guys'. When in reality that woman is more than likely just fed up and totally turned off by their lack of balls in seducing/pursuing her and gives up early in the game - thus fulfilling his self-fulfilling prophecy.

And of course, no-one sets out to meet an asshole. It just so happens that the arrogance that causes assholery in a guy, can disguise itself as confidence/assertiveness/charm and that's what draws girls to them.

Brilliant post.

nocoverart

This thread is fookin depressing! now I'm going to play Smack My Bitch Up

JustAddWater

UCDVet wrote: »

Sally is really unattractive, but a nice enough person.
Cathal is kind of unattractive, but a nice enough person.
Amy is kind of attractive, and a nice enough person.
James is pretty attractive and a nice enough person.

Cathal doesn't feel comfortable approaching women. Besides, only 'jerks' use lame lines and try to pick up girls. And when he has had enough to drink, he's socially awkward and strikes out. Over time, he's gotten to know Amy. He really likes Amy, but he thinks it's a big secret and is just friends.

Because he's attracted to her and wants to date her, he does lots of nice things for her. Listens to her, helps her with stuff, remembers her birthday. Whatever. And he watches her date guys who don't treat her nearly as well.

Cathal decides 'Nice guys finish last'.

Meanwhile....Amy really likes James. He's amazing. But he doesn't even notice her. He's popular and dreamy, and always dating some perfect girl. She'd give anything to go out with him. Cathal? She doesn't really think of him like that.

Meanwhile....Sally really likes Cathal. He's amazing. But he doesn't even notice her. He's popular and dreamy, always hanging around with that super-cute Amy girl.

Cathal doesn't even notice that his friend Sally really likes him....but he doesn't want to see it. Sally is kinda ugly and not very popular. He doesn't think they have a lot in common. Maybe, one time, at a party, after some drinks, they might even mess around; but it's not like 'a thing'. She's just a friend.

Sally, she thinks guys are all assholes. She had a crush on Cathal for years; then one night he got drunk and messed around with. Then he didn't call her. Instead he wants to be with Amy. What a pig.

Amy, after creaming herself when James called her is now crying because, they went out for a few weeks, but found out James dropped her like a bad habit. It turns out James was lusting after some other girl. Amy is convinced all men are assholes.

James admits he left Amy. But so what? That's what people do. Plus, he's still jaded because his first girlfriend treated him like crap. That's when he decided women are all bitches.

And that's what you missed, on glee!

Daveysil15

beks101 wrote: »

I called it a day, because he 'really liked me'. Really? Grow a pair, maybe?

Another phrase that gets used a lot. You could have tried to initiate something yourself instead of expecting him to do everything. You can be nice without been needy or passive though. They don't always go hand in hand.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

smash wrote: »

You're a nice guy but I wouldn't want to cross you! Kinda like Bruce Banner!

Well that doesn't make me sound dodgy or anything!

Scanlas The 2nd

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Another phrase that gets used a lot. You could have tried to initiate something yourself instead of expecting him to do everything. You can be nice without been needy or passive though. They don't always go hand in hand.

Yes but why would she initiate if a guy not initiating is a turn off. A guy not being able to initiate is a turn off to most women IMO. Balls are very high up the list of turn ons, they don't want a little boy afraid of the world.

jill_valentine

Trust Morpheus. He gets it - "What If I Told You..."

Beks101's post should be quoted every time this notion rears its head. Further more, I recommend -

The Nice Guy’s Guide to Realizing You’re Not That Nice

You’re not actually nice. Ask yourself this question: All these nice, thoughtful things you do for women you have crushes on, do you do them for your friends whose panties you don’t want to chew off? Do you remember everyone’s favorite pizza topping? Listen to them bitch about work? Tell them when you see something neat on ThinkGeek that you think they’d like?

Getting extra attention from someone who’s generally nice is flattering. Sitting under the laserlike niceness focus of someone who’s usually oblivious is actually pretty unnerving.

Daveysil15

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Yes but why would she initiate if a guy not initiating is a turn off. A guy not being able to initiate is a turn off to most women IMO. Balls are very high up the list of turn ons, they don't want a little boy afraid of the world.

I've been with a couple of girls where they made the first move. I don't think that makes me afraid of the world. Granted if it goes on for a few dates without anyone making a move then it would be awkward alright. Some guys may be afraid of appearing too keen.

Scanlas The 2nd

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I've been with a couple of girls where they made the first move. I don't think that makes me afraid of the world. Granted if it goes on for a few dates without anyone making a move then it would be awkward alright. Some guys may be afraid of appearing too keen.

Generally I find women prefer men who don't care about what a woman thinks who they just met. Worrying about being too keen isn't even on their radar, having fun is the priority.

beks101

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Another phrase that gets used a lot. You could have tried to initiate something yourself instead of expecting him to do everything. You can be nice without been needy or passive though. They don't always go hand in hand.

I have often, and actually more often than not been the initiator in my dating life. I've no problem with making the first move, in fact I quite enjoy doing so as it's always preceded by a lot of flirting, physical contact, eye contact, laughter, just a general vibe that things are going a certain way.

But this guy was giving me NOTHING. There was almost a FEAR of getting intimate, even if it was a brush of the arm or touch of the hand mid-conversation. I did the usual flirting, but there was nothing to work with so to speak and that shyness to the point of paralysis just totally switched me off to him.

That's what I mean by lack of confidence and how it just can kill a girl's attraction. The frequent texts and frequent asking me out, attempts at flirty banter etc just got annoying because of that.

Wattle

Maybe some of us nice guys don't want children......or does saying that make me an asshole? I'm confused now.

El Siglo

beks101 wrote: »

And of course, no-one sets out to meet an asshole. It just so happens that the arrogance that causes assholery in a guy, can disguise itself as confidence/assertiveness/charm and that's what draws girls to them.

Fucking spot on!

Best post of the thread (I mean that in all sincerity). This business of waiting and being awkward or too forward or all that other nonsense is what's at the core of the issue with 'nice guys'.

Wibbs

The amount of women mates that have related stories like yours Beks(damn near exactly) is quite eye opening.

This part;

beks101 wrote: »

And of course, no-one sets out to meet an asshole. It just so happens that the arrogance that causes assholery in a guy, can disguise itself as confidence/assertiveness/charm and that's what draws girls to them.

I reckon is the sound of nails being hit squarely on the head. Other than the actual loopers, the women I've known who've gone through a "bad boy" phase(and luckily it's usually a phase) are most often younger women with little experience of men and especially little experience of actual good men. The displays of arseholes can be easily confused for socially mature men. Certainly when compared to the men with "nice guy syndrome".

The socially and emotionally mature guy is confident in company. Doesn't mean he has to be the "life and soul", simply that he's comfortable in the back and forth of conversation. The mature guy is more forward with women. He's also more confident in making decisions(this is a biggie. So many men are of the "ah sure whatever you'd like" and this drives women mad for the most part). The mature guy is also emotionally mature, more stable in emotions over time and so doesn't tend to go overboard(like in one of B's examples)

All of these are also to be found in the bad boy type at least they appear that way at first glance. Being "over the top" in company can be confused with social comfort. Being a bit of a sleaze can be seen as comfort with coming forward with women. Being "cold/playing hard to get can be seen as level emotions. He's certainly not coming accross as over eager and desperate. If a woman is starting out it's easy to be confused by this, but after a couple of dickheads she'll quickly realise that these triggers are all surface as is the emotional maturity of such types.

Now compare that to the steretypical "nice guy". Tends not to understand social cues, especially in the opposite sex. Tends to not come forward with romantic intentions, hides them(badly) or goes way overboard. Emotionally can be non commital or really bloody scary(I know you an hour lets get married and have babies).

Of course these are stereotypes, but just making a thumbnail sketch. That said I do feel sorry for some "nice guys". They may actually be nice men underneath, but have missed an important phase in adolescence where you can work this guff out, make mistakes and not be badly affected by them. Stuff that's daft or embarrassing at 16, looks really odd and can really exclude someone romantically if they do similar at 26. There are a lot of these young(and not so young) men like this out there. The PUA shíte being so popular is a symptom of that. Sadly they're not getting the right kind of help with that guff and some can get really sucked into the whole thing. It becomes a bloody cult for them. Understandably as some get some success from it. The main reason why, is because the PUA stuff teaches them to approach as many women as possible. So some shy guy whose never gone up to a woman before, then goes up to 30 and he "gets" one of them. He's gonna think "OHMIGOD it works!!" and can get deeper into it.

limklad

Why Nice Guys Finish Last, Trust Me They Do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyWsfZqGynQ

I have seen it all the time. Women wants to have an interesting life. In the long term or when very young, they do not like boring nice guys. Yet the most complaint I hear from women "Where are all the nice men?" The true thing is there is less nice women than nice men.

Most nice guys I know I have seen married, fall over flat or jump high at their wife every whim and she treats him like a slave, even insults or degrade him with a smile in front of others. Other nice guys just get bitchy women who cannot get the money man are as usual too full of themselves that they are above everybody else.

It is social status, self arrogance confidence and love of money that women are after in the end of the day in a man.

Women to expect true love for a bastard or for a man with social status or rich men is truly deluding themselves.
I know women who have money ans social status who is looking for hunks of men who are vain and expect true love. It is only sexual love which always wane, unlike true love.

I offer no sympathy to women who marry bastards, vain, arrogant of full of themselves men or have sex with them and end up with a child and end up getting dumped. It is the children who are the real innocent victims that I feel sorry for. Women know well before having sex since their early teens, if they have willing sex with a young teenager boy or a man, there is very much a chance of getting pregnant, unless they are living under a bush all there lives and never learnt the "birds and the bees".

In the last few decades with women getting far more freedoms and rightly so, are spouting out girls are more mature than boys, but when it comes to practice, they always fall for the worst kind of men, due to immaturity and some women hormones. Women are adults just like men, all are responsible for their mistakes and judgements. It easy to blame others or drink, etc for poor judgements. It is immature people who do not take responsibility for their mistakes and poor judgement, fail to learn from them and fail to move on with their lives.

I see very few women in long term relationship, who truly love the nice man they married where they bent over backwards for each other through the up and down in their lives. It is sad I know. I have dump women If I suspect they are not really in love with me, they just want to get married and have kids. I am still looking for that nice woman that we can fall in true love together.

Wibbs

limklad wrote: »

Most nice guys I know I have seen married, fall over flat or jump high at their wife every whim and she treats him like a slave, even insults or degrade him with a smile in front of others.

That's not a nice guy, that's a doormat.

DenMan

Wibbs wrote: »

The amount of women mates that have related stories like yours Beks(damn near exactly) is quite eye opening.

This part;

I reckon is the sound of nails being hit squarely on the head. Other than the actual loopers, the women I've known who've gone through a "bad boy" phase(and luckily it's usually a phase) are most often younger women with little experience of men and especially little experience of actual good men. The displays of arseholes can be easily confused for socially mature men. Certainly when compared to the men with "nice guy syndrome".

The socially and emotionally mature guy is confident in company. Doesn't mean he has to be the "life and soul", simply that he's comfortable in the back and forth of conversation. The mature guy is more forward with women. He's also more confident in making decisions(this is a biggie. So many men are of the "ah sure whatever you'd like" and this drives women mad for the most part). The mature guy is also emotionally mature, more stable in emotions over time and so doesn't tend to go overboard(like in one of B's examples)

All of these are also to be found in the bad boy type at least they appear that way at first glance. Being "over the top" in company can be confused with social comfort. Being a bit of a sleaze can be seen as comfort with coming forward with women. Being "cold/playing hard to get can be seen as level emotions. He's certainly not coming accross as over eager and desperate. If a woman is starting out it's easy to be confused by this, but after a couple of dickheads she'll quickly realise that these triggers are all surface as is the emotional maturity of such types.

Now compare that to the steretypical "nice guy". Tends not to understand social cues, especially in the opposite sex. Tends to not come forward with romantic intentions, hides them(badly) or goes way overboard. Emotionally can be non commital or really bloody scary(I know you an hour lets get married and have babies).

Of course these are stereotypes, but just making a thumbnail sketch. That said I do feel sorry for some "nice guys". They may actually be nice men underneath, but have missed an important phase in adolescence where you can work this guff out, make mistakes and not be badly affected by them. Stuff that's daft or embarrassing at 16, looks really odd and can really exclude someone romantically if they do similar at 26. There are a lot of these young(and not so young) men like this out there. The PUA shíte being so popular is a symptom of that. Sadly they're not getting the right kind of help with that guff and some can get really sucked into the whole thing. It becomes a bloody cult for them. Understandably as some get some success from it. The main reason why, is because the PUA stuff teaches them to approach as many women as possible. So some shy guy whose never gone up to a woman before, then goes up to 30 and he "gets" one of them. He's gonna think "OHMIGOD it works!!" and can get deeper into it.

WTF!!! You have far too much time on your hands. That post sounds like something written by a machine after sifting through gossip and relationship magazines. It’s like a published article without any feeling to it! Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her, it’s the challenge that keeps her focused. The idea of a nice guy ticks all the boxes as he will just roll over and allow himself to be dominated by a woman and after a while she will tire of him and be bored of his submissiveness. He’s too weak and that’s not what anybody wants in a relationship. There’s no teasing, no surprises and the unexpected doesn’t exist, and the sex may be boring! Nice guys are good but they are timid and will roll over too easy. Women want to be protected and a bad boy is more honest and upfront!

Hippies!

This thread is amazeballs. Totes serious loike guys I'm learning loads. If I couple the excellent points in this thread with 50 Shades of Grey then I'll be set.

PatL23

Say it Aint So wrote: »

People say that they are nice guys when they don't try approach women, are too meek to drive a conversation with a women and are too afraid to make it explicitly know that they are interested/attracted in the girl.

A better phrase would be 'Afraid Guy'. All there is to be afraid of is rejection.

Anyone disagree?

This is me nearly 100% to be honest. I keep telling myself consciously that i know that a certain woman or women wont like me or even be interested to talk to me so i wont talk to her/them. This is caused by my low self-esteem, I not that bad looking of a guy(IMO) At, but when i feel id love go talk to a certain girl, or a girl seems the slightly interested in me, my self-esteem hits rock bottom.
Some might say that it is a fear of rejection, but im not sure.
I really dont know and it really effects my life.
All of my friends have shifted/kissed countless women and have been in relationships.
But i have not kissed any, now im only 20 years old, but i really feel lonely at times.
God i hate my life.

MadYaker

^^ might be better suited to P.I forum. But imo rejection seems like the worst thing imaginable until you get rejected once or twice and then you realise its actually not that bad at all. It's certainly easier to deal with then living a life of lonelyness because you are too afraid to talk to girls. I used to a bit like you, not as bad maybe, but I was certainly a bit nervous about approaching women until eventually I grew a pair and just started doing it. It makes you a lot more self confident which most women find attractive.

Look at the last 4 threads the O.P has started, I see a trend.

DenMan

DenMan wrote: »

Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her, it’s the challenge that keeps her focused. The idea of a nice guy ticks all the boxes as he will just roll over and allow himself to be dominated by a woman and after a while she will tire of him and be bored of his submissiveness.

You're obviously a mind reader/psychic. Thanks for clearing up what I really want in a man.

LuckyLloyd

Wibbs wrote: »

That said I do feel sorry for some "nice guys". They may actually be nice men underneath, but have missed an important phase in adolescence where you can work this guff out, make mistakes and not be badly affected by them. Stuff that's daft or embarrassing at 16, looks really odd and can really exclude someone romantically if they do similar at 26. There are a lot of these young(and not so young) men like this out there. The PUA shíte being so popular is a symptom of that. Sadly they're not getting the right kind of help with that guff and some can get really sucked into the whole thing. It becomes a bloody cult for them. Understandably as some get some success from it. The main reason why, is because the PUA stuff teaches them to approach as many women as possible. So some shy guy whose never gone up to a woman before, then goes up to 30 and he "gets" one of them. He's gonna think "OHMIGOD it works!!" and can get deeper into it.

Hmm, ah yes this sounds familiar. I think you've hit the nail on the head here!!

Madam_X

So women aren't into guys they find boring? How dreadful of them. And of course men are well up for women they find boring.

Limklad, the "truth" is there are less nice women than nice men? Or is it just how you choose to see things? I suspect the actual truth is: it's 50/50.

No, women don't all ultimately go for a bastard; most just want a man they love and who loves them.

seven_eleven

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

Madam_X

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

Extra cocky, loud, attention-seeking people aren't getting a good reception here either though!

Well it must suck to feel attacked but I really dont think people like you are being referred too, even if the language isn't specific enough.
Nothing wrong with being socially awkward and very shy (not you) either, if the person realises it's something that can be worked on and it's not the world being against them.

dd972

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

Good point, there loads of cocky, aggressive loud mouths who women don't touch with a barge pole and lots of quiet guys who go about their business and hoover up the muff, sorry for the crudity of the description, even quiet lads like myself have an inner Jay from Inbetweeners :pac:

Daveysil15

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.

You're right and even if that were the case, those are things that can be improved. A few people have mentioned finding a bad boy and then trying to change him. Why not try and change a nice guy? The quite ones can come out of their shell if coaxed the right way.

Scanlas The 2nd

Daveysil15 wrote: »

You're right and even if that were the case, those are things that can be improved. A few people have mentioned finding a bad boy and then trying to change him. Why not try and change a nice guy? The quite ones can come out of their shell if coaxed the right way.

I personally think the whole idea that women like bad boys because they can try and change him is nonsense. If that were the case why not try and change a homeless man.

They like bad boys because they are exciting and often have attractive traits such as confidence, dominance, assertiveness, funny etc..

I think it's just a rationalisation by women who say they wanted to change him. The truth is IMO they simply found him attractive despite his negative qualities.

jaffacakesyum

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I personally think the whole idea that women like bad boys because they can try and change him is nonsense. If that were the case why not try and change a homeless man.

They like bad boys because they are exciting and often have attractive traits such as confidence, dominance, assertiveness, funny etc..

I think it's just a rationalisation by women who say they wanted to change him. The truth is IMO they simply found him attractive despite his negative qualities.

I know you're not saying all women like bad boys but do you (and everyone else on the thread) think that enough women "like bad boys" enough for it to be a stereotype? I really don't think so. I don't think I know any women who deliberately got with a "bad boy" and thought they could change him. Actually, I don't think I know any women who deliberately were attracted to a "bad boy" at all. I definitely know women who have been with d1ckheads but they, unfortunately, found that out at a later stage; it wasn't something that initially attracted them.


The whole "women are attracted to bad boys" thing just makes me cringe. Even typing it...it's such a cheesy generalisation.

Wibbs

DenMan wrote: »

WTF!!! You have far too much time on your hands.

More like too many hands on my time.

It’s like a published article without any feeling to it!

Given the current state of much of what does get published I could be on a financial winner here. I'm thinking the Indo is running out of ideas.... Sweet.

Hippies! wrote: »

This thread is amazeballs. Totes serious loike guys I'm learning loads. If I couple the excellent points in this thread with 50 Shades of Grey then I'll be set.

Plus if you sit in the corner of the nightclub casually licking your eyebrows you'll be in gravy H.

MadYaker wrote: »

imo rejection seems like the worst thing imaginable until you get rejected once or twice and then you realise its actually not that bad at all. It's certainly easier to deal with then living a life of lonelyness because you are too afraid to talk to girls.

This in a big way MY. What you may be nervous of, even when it gets shítty, it's far better than the alternative.

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

Like I said Seven, being "quiet" is not an issue. Not even close. You sound - like you say - secure and confident. Nothing like a weirdo at all. Being generally introverted doesn't make one a "weirdo", just as being generally extroverted doesn't make you an "arsehole".

Eve_Dublin

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think single guys/girls who complain about being single and not finding someone just use the "no nice guys/girls out there" as a handy excuse to blame someone else for their own shortcomings.

/thread

TheBegotten

What I do for all discussions of this style: C'est la vie.
Then I post this:

woodoo

Madam_X wrote: »

So women aren't into guys they find boring? How dreadful of them. And of course men are well up for women they find boring.

I agree.

This thread has been full of what women want and what men are lacking. There are all sorts of men and women out there. Not all women will get the cream of the crop and same for the men. There is only so many alpha's out there. Not all women are going to get them. There are as many dull, unattractive women as there are men don't forget.

764dak

This seems appropriate:

Handsome Bob

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If that were the case why not try and change a homeless man.

Just to humour you, I guess it's because that for those who do like a "bad boy", they usually pick the ones that can look good on their arm. I mean for all the women that I know like this, I've near seen a 30 stone dickhead on their arm.

Duggy747

Nice guys with a thinly veiled disrespect for women, meet your God:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xoKiH8JJM

Women don't like doormats or guys who go out of their way to please them, they want someone with confidence and all that. Confidence which sometimes can be mistaken for dickheadedness from some female friends I know.

S. De Sousa

S. De Sousa wrote: »

Just to humour you, I guess it's because that for those who do like a "bad boy", they usually pick the ones that can look good on their arm. I mean for all the women that I know like this, I've near seen a 30 stone dickhead on their arm.

Damn women, with their preference for a good looking partner. Not like guys at all to be like that.

Handsome Bob

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Damn women, with their preference for a good looking partner. Not like guys at all to be like that.

Never said I had a problem with that line of thinking.

laoch na mona

how does being nice mean you're not an alpha? alpha is the strongest you don't have to be a dick to be strong
also by OPs logic rapists are the ultimate alphas

Scanlas The 2nd

laoch na mona wrote: »

how does being nice mean you're not an alpha? alpha is the strongest you don't have to be a dick to be strong
also by OPs logic rapists are the ultimate alphas

I don't think the OP defined what alpha is to him.

Wibbs

I think if you're using words like alpha you're already on a hiding to nothing.

DenMan

DenMan wrote: »

Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her,

All men are thick.

Hey look, generalisations are fun and accurate aren't they?

SafeSurfer

tonycascarino wrote: »

For every old sock there is an old shoe

This is simply untrue. I have many more socks than I have shoes. Also many more socks are produced annually than shoes. I would ask you to withdraw, withdraw, withdraw!

SafeSurfer

Wibbs wrote: »

I think if you're using words like alpha you're already on a hiding to nothing.

I think Alpha males do exist. Take Gehghis Khan for example, his genes are found in a high percentage of Eurasian males alive today. Similiarly Niall of the nine hostages, is a common ancestor of a large percentage of Irish males, especially in the north west.

Because of social changes though, the type of male that has multiple children to multiple partners today is likely to have low educational and employment attainment. Think Jeremy Kyle show.